Do we take legal actiona
June 7, 2010 5:23 AM Subscribe
Sticky Renting Situation Filter: I just moved into a house that my girlfriend and two other friends have been renting from my girlfriends mother for about 2 years now. Now my girlfriends uncles want to increase the rent (oral lease) pretty heavily and planned to do so before they even knew I was moving in. Do I use the law to protect our rights as tenants, or because it's my girlfriend's family do we just pick up and leave instead of fighting it?
The house is my girlfriend's grandmothers old house and is next door to my girlfriends mothers house. The mother loves living next to her daughter and does not want to increase rent but is outnumbered by the two uncles.
Aside from this, I worry that the mother and uncles believe they are doing the tenants a favor by letting them live there, and that they are not being responsible landlords or treating us as actual tenants. There is no written lease (a big no no for landlords), they do not take care of the yard or snow, they come in whenever they want to make home improvements. Also, the house is old, things are broken, and nothing is fixed in a timely manner. For the most part none of the tenants ever minded, but now that rent is going up another $650 dollars in total these will be issues. Their plans are to ask us to leave if we cannot pay the increase. I do understand that my moving into the house is an additional source of income, however my girlfriend and I have 1 bedroom, it's not as if I'm getting another additional bedroom in the house.
Things we have on our side:
1. In Massachusetts tenants must be given a written document stating the increase in rent. (This has not been done).
2. As that the lease is an oral lease we can tell them they are responsible for paying the utilities as well as all past utilities paid since it is not stated in a written lease (Massachusetts law).
3. It's obvious they want the increase in rent to pay for all the improvements they are making to the house so they can sell it. (They've have had to fix the water heater, the plumbing, and there will be more) I believe it is also illegal to increase rent in Massachusetts or anywhere to do this.
4. A quick call to the Board of Health and an inspection will result in the fact that many things in the house are illegal and not up to code. (This is a last resort.)
5. I don't think that the gf's mother and uncles know that you cannot simply evict or make us leave simply because they are requesting more money. Rent has always been paid and we are the ones that take care of the property (which we shouldn't have to do). They have done nothing legally in the formal process of increasing rent and if taken to court the law will be on our side.
My ultimate question is what should we do in this scenario, do we pick up and go (I know not everyone has enough money to simply pick up and pay first/last for a new place somewhere)? I've emailed the uncles requesting that we sit down and talk about this, it's been a week and I've received no response. The gf's mother believes they will not want to sit down and talk and expect the increase in rent regardless. I am worried that because they are not treating us as real tenants that when I tell them all of these things they will just get mad, and blame my girlfriends mother for all of these things.
Please help!
The house is my girlfriend's grandmothers old house and is next door to my girlfriends mothers house. The mother loves living next to her daughter and does not want to increase rent but is outnumbered by the two uncles.
Aside from this, I worry that the mother and uncles believe they are doing the tenants a favor by letting them live there, and that they are not being responsible landlords or treating us as actual tenants. There is no written lease (a big no no for landlords), they do not take care of the yard or snow, they come in whenever they want to make home improvements. Also, the house is old, things are broken, and nothing is fixed in a timely manner. For the most part none of the tenants ever minded, but now that rent is going up another $650 dollars in total these will be issues. Their plans are to ask us to leave if we cannot pay the increase. I do understand that my moving into the house is an additional source of income, however my girlfriend and I have 1 bedroom, it's not as if I'm getting another additional bedroom in the house.
Things we have on our side:
1. In Massachusetts tenants must be given a written document stating the increase in rent. (This has not been done).
2. As that the lease is an oral lease we can tell them they are responsible for paying the utilities as well as all past utilities paid since it is not stated in a written lease (Massachusetts law).
3. It's obvious they want the increase in rent to pay for all the improvements they are making to the house so they can sell it. (They've have had to fix the water heater, the plumbing, and there will be more) I believe it is also illegal to increase rent in Massachusetts or anywhere to do this.
4. A quick call to the Board of Health and an inspection will result in the fact that many things in the house are illegal and not up to code. (This is a last resort.)
5. I don't think that the gf's mother and uncles know that you cannot simply evict or make us leave simply because they are requesting more money. Rent has always been paid and we are the ones that take care of the property (which we shouldn't have to do). They have done nothing legally in the formal process of increasing rent and if taken to court the law will be on our side.
My ultimate question is what should we do in this scenario, do we pick up and go (I know not everyone has enough money to simply pick up and pay first/last for a new place somewhere)? I've emailed the uncles requesting that we sit down and talk about this, it's been a week and I've received no response. The gf's mother believes they will not want to sit down and talk and expect the increase in rent regardless. I am worried that because they are not treating us as real tenants that when I tell them all of these things they will just get mad, and blame my girlfriends mother for all of these things.
Please help!
Option 1) Pick up and leave. Even if you win the fight, you will have lost.
Option 2) Pay the increased rent and insist on a formal, written lease and spell out the expectations of what the landlords will need to undertake.
Do not try to fight this and remain on an non-written lease. I don't blame the uncles for wanted to get market value for the house--they think they've been letting you guys slide because you're family, and renting is business--but I don't think they realize that you've been letting them slide as well.
posted by coryinabox at 5:32 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Option 2) Pay the increased rent and insist on a formal, written lease and spell out the expectations of what the landlords will need to undertake.
Do not try to fight this and remain on an non-written lease. I don't blame the uncles for wanted to get market value for the house--they think they've been letting you guys slide because you're family, and renting is business--but I don't think they realize that you've been letting them slide as well.
posted by coryinabox at 5:32 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
I expect (and this page from mass.gov seems to back me up) that you've no rights re: staying at the apartment at lower rent. If the rent is raised verbally, you're free to inform them that they need to give you a written notice, and once they do so, you've a month to leave. They absolutely don't have to provide a reason for this, and it doesn't matter if they're selling it immediately after they evict you. I've no idea where you heard #3.
So you're misinformed or wrong on #1, 3, and 5. The presumable result of #4 would be angry landlords who have to fix code violations quickly, and they will probably be more likely to raise the rent to cover repairs. I've no idea what the situation is on #2, but I cannot believe that any court anywhere would order landlords to pay years of back utilities. The residents' taking care of these for so long seems to go a long way to showing that that was part of the oral lease.
In reality, you have no real options here besides asking them nicely to not increase the price, and if they do, leave. You should, in any case, begin submitting requests for repairs in writing so as to have some sort of record, and you should call the city to get an inspection. If you want to be a real tenant, you should act like one.
posted by TypographicalError at 5:34 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
So you're misinformed or wrong on #1, 3, and 5. The presumable result of #4 would be angry landlords who have to fix code violations quickly, and they will probably be more likely to raise the rent to cover repairs. I've no idea what the situation is on #2, but I cannot believe that any court anywhere would order landlords to pay years of back utilities. The residents' taking care of these for so long seems to go a long way to showing that that was part of the oral lease.
In reality, you have no real options here besides asking them nicely to not increase the price, and if they do, leave. You should, in any case, begin submitting requests for repairs in writing so as to have some sort of record, and you should call the city to get an inspection. If you want to be a real tenant, you should act like one.
posted by TypographicalError at 5:34 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
You don't have a lease. IANAL, but I don't think y'all have a leg to stand on. As stated above, unless your friendship and your friend's relationship with her family aren't worth anything to any of you, fighting this will just cause problems..
I would just move out....
posted by HuronBob at 5:36 AM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I would just move out....
posted by HuronBob at 5:36 AM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Bringing up legal issues between your girlfriend's family, her mother, and you, is relationship suicide. Don't go there.
posted by hamandcheese at 5:42 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by hamandcheese at 5:42 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, the house is old, things are broken, and nothing is fixed in a timely manner.
This is the tradeoff the world over for cheap rent. Your girlfriend and her friends got to live in a house cheap, and her family didn't have to deal with the house. But times are tough and her uncles figure that they can get more for the house then they're currently getting, so they're going to increase the rent.
With the $650 increase, is the rent still lower than the average rent for a house of that size in the area? If it is still lower, I would just suck it up. If it's going to be higher (especially with the lack of maintenance factored in), then move.
A quick call to the Board of Health and an inspection will result in the fact that many things in the house are illegal and not up to code. (This is a last resort.)
Are you nuts? Are you trying to torpedo your girlfriend's relationship with her family? I can't speak for her family, but in my family, this would be the kind of thing that would cause a total shitstorm of drama, hurt feelings, and family schisms. Don't do this.
In the future, don't rent from or to family.
posted by crankylex at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2010
This is the tradeoff the world over for cheap rent. Your girlfriend and her friends got to live in a house cheap, and her family didn't have to deal with the house. But times are tough and her uncles figure that they can get more for the house then they're currently getting, so they're going to increase the rent.
With the $650 increase, is the rent still lower than the average rent for a house of that size in the area? If it is still lower, I would just suck it up. If it's going to be higher (especially with the lack of maintenance factored in), then move.
A quick call to the Board of Health and an inspection will result in the fact that many things in the house are illegal and not up to code. (This is a last resort.)
Are you nuts? Are you trying to torpedo your girlfriend's relationship with her family? I can't speak for her family, but in my family, this would be the kind of thing that would cause a total shitstorm of drama, hurt feelings, and family schisms. Don't do this.
In the future, don't rent from or to family.
posted by crankylex at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! For the last two people that responded please in the future do NOT respond to questions simply to be prickly. For any of those blindly making statements about technical/law issues please review http://www.gis.net/~groucho/landlord.html#1 on Massachusetts law before you make snippy remarks on something you know absolutely nothing about. To anyone whom is a lawyer, please feel free to comment on this aspect of the question.
posted by modoriculous at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2010
posted by modoriculous at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2010
Response by poster: Thansk Crankylex, that's the most sound advice so far and my last comment was not directed towards you as I posted it too late. The increase in rent is actually going to put it right at the fair value as far as cost goes.
posted by modoriculous at 5:50 AM on June 7, 2010
posted by modoriculous at 5:50 AM on June 7, 2010
Just tell them that you can't afford the rent increase and will have to move.
They then have to balance reducing the rent increase but keeping some known-good tenants (your gf is highly unlikely to damage her grandmother's house, for example), against increasing the rent by their target but having to find new tenants of unknown quality (and having the costs associated with credit/background checks).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:54 AM on June 7, 2010
They then have to balance reducing the rent increase but keeping some known-good tenants (your gf is highly unlikely to damage her grandmother's house, for example), against increasing the rent by their target but having to find new tenants of unknown quality (and having the costs associated with credit/background checks).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:54 AM on June 7, 2010
The mass.gov page that a leasor can raise the rent to someone renting at will at any time for any amount they choose with 30 days notice.
You can do a lot of things here to piss off your girlfriend's family and to create a hostile environment to live in. That's not even mentioning that they can give you 30 days notice to vacate entirely.
I don't see an upside to fighting this that lasts more than a couple of months and creates anything but problems within your girlfriend's family. You have plenty of options as far as getting a lease at their rate and then forcing them to fix and/or take care of the house better, but is that really your best option here?
posted by Hiker at 5:57 AM on June 7, 2010
You can do a lot of things here to piss off your girlfriend's family and to create a hostile environment to live in. That's not even mentioning that they can give you 30 days notice to vacate entirely.
I don't see an upside to fighting this that lasts more than a couple of months and creates anything but problems within your girlfriend's family. You have plenty of options as far as getting a lease at their rate and then forcing them to fix and/or take care of the house better, but is that really your best option here?
posted by Hiker at 5:57 AM on June 7, 2010
Move. Never mix law and in-laws.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 6:02 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 6:02 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Thanks everyone! For the last two people that responded please in the future do NOT respond to questions simply to be prickly. For any of those blindly making statements about technical/law issues please review http://www.gis.net/~groucho/landlord.html#1 on Massachusetts law before you make snippy remarks on something you know absolutely nothing about. To anyone whom is a lawyer, please feel free to comment on this aspect of the question.
IANAL, but the point of the statements above was one of perspective. Sometimes, it doesn't matter whether or not you're right. This isn't a fight you can win. Sure, it's entirely possible that the family is breaking the law, that you have a right to stay, etc.. I don't know Mass. renters' laws whatsoever. Anyone here will likely tell you to contact a local attorney who does.
And perhaps that attorney will tell you that sure, you're completely in the right, etc. And then they'll ask you "Are you really sure you want to go through with this? Because fighting your girlfriends' family over this is a supremely bad idea."
You'll be putting her family in a bad spot, and potentially in legal trouble. This can only generate bad feelings. Worse, it puts your gf in a position where she'll effectively have to choose between her family, or you. If she chooses her family, you loose. If she chooses you, well, she'll always remember that you made her choose. Not much of a victory.
Are you trying to get some kind of bargaining leverage? That's an entirely different question that "Am I in my rights?" That's negotiation. Sure, you have leverage - you can move out.
If you know what the market price is for a comparable place that you'd move in to, then negotiate with the family based on the current condition of the place, repairs that *must* be done (versus "would be nice if they were done", etc. It doesn't have to be confrontational, its' just business.
"Gee, you know, if you raise the rent $650, well, for that price we can get a place that's in much better shape/bigger/better location/etc, and we'd strongly consider moving. But you know, if you just fixed these couple of things, we'd be willing to pay an additional $xxx, which would save you the hassle of finding a new tenant that's an unknown quantity, and well, gee, it means your sister gets to continue living next to your niece, which is something she really likes".
See? Not confrontational at all.
If you go this route, and come to an agreement, GET A LEASE IN WRITING.
Good luck.
posted by swngnmonk at 6:12 AM on June 7, 2010 [9 favorites]
IANAL, but the point of the statements above was one of perspective. Sometimes, it doesn't matter whether or not you're right. This isn't a fight you can win. Sure, it's entirely possible that the family is breaking the law, that you have a right to stay, etc.. I don't know Mass. renters' laws whatsoever. Anyone here will likely tell you to contact a local attorney who does.
And perhaps that attorney will tell you that sure, you're completely in the right, etc. And then they'll ask you "Are you really sure you want to go through with this? Because fighting your girlfriends' family over this is a supremely bad idea."
You'll be putting her family in a bad spot, and potentially in legal trouble. This can only generate bad feelings. Worse, it puts your gf in a position where she'll effectively have to choose between her family, or you. If she chooses her family, you loose. If she chooses you, well, she'll always remember that you made her choose. Not much of a victory.
Are you trying to get some kind of bargaining leverage? That's an entirely different question that "Am I in my rights?" That's negotiation. Sure, you have leverage - you can move out.
If you know what the market price is for a comparable place that you'd move in to, then negotiate with the family based on the current condition of the place, repairs that *must* be done (versus "would be nice if they were done", etc. It doesn't have to be confrontational, its' just business.
"Gee, you know, if you raise the rent $650, well, for that price we can get a place that's in much better shape/bigger/better location/etc, and we'd strongly consider moving. But you know, if you just fixed these couple of things, we'd be willing to pay an additional $xxx, which would save you the hassle of finding a new tenant that's an unknown quantity, and well, gee, it means your sister gets to continue living next to your niece, which is something she really likes".
See? Not confrontational at all.
If you go this route, and come to an agreement, GET A LEASE IN WRITING.
Good luck.
posted by swngnmonk at 6:12 AM on June 7, 2010 [9 favorites]
I think this is a good thing, if you want a clean, functional place to live. You said the place isn't being kept up and you're getting it for below market value. If you start paying market value, you should also start expecting the place to be kept up. Just be clear: get a lease that stipulates everything, not just dollar value, but what the landlord's duties are to keep the place habitable. Six fifty a month is what, seven grand a year? Is it going to take seven grand to fix the problems in the house? Maybe if the family does it all themself. One tricky plumbing job could run over a grand if they hire it out. Or you could make the family a deal if you're handy: keep the rent low but you'll do X worth of improvements to the house, and then stick to that end of the deal. I mean, really -- look at it both ways: you've been getting a good deal with cheap rent, but their investment (the building) is deteriorating. Make it win for everyone! Just be sure to get it in writing.
Of course, if you're not handy or can't afford the higher rent, you should move out. Don't try and fight them about the rent if the house isn't going to be fixed up, because that will just make a lot of resentment. Family can be okay to work with if everyone is getting what they want.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2010
Of course, if you're not handy or can't afford the higher rent, you should move out. Don't try and fight them about the rent if the house isn't going to be fixed up, because that will just make a lot of resentment. Family can be okay to work with if everyone is getting what they want.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2010
Listen to swngnmonk, for swngnmonk knows what swngnmonk is talking about.
I have been through the experience of trying to make a cheap landlord take repairs seriously after he jacked up the rent. I have since seen several other people go through the same thing. Once things get confrontational, there's no way for the thing to end but badly.
You need to put yourself in the uncles' shoes, and do your best to see the situation from their point of view as well, and then do your best to work out a proposal that gives everybody at least some of what they want, and present it in such a way that everybody stays friendly. This is really bloody hard to pull off, so you will need a fairly well-developed Plan B before launching into it.
Bottom line is that the place has been rented for too cheap for a while, and that that's already been a considerable win for the present tenants. Try hard not to be a sore winner.
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have been through the experience of trying to make a cheap landlord take repairs seriously after he jacked up the rent. I have since seen several other people go through the same thing. Once things get confrontational, there's no way for the thing to end but badly.
You need to put yourself in the uncles' shoes, and do your best to see the situation from their point of view as well, and then do your best to work out a proposal that gives everybody at least some of what they want, and present it in such a way that everybody stays friendly. This is really bloody hard to pull off, so you will need a fairly well-developed Plan B before launching into it.
Bottom line is that the place has been rented for too cheap for a while, and that that's already been a considerable win for the present tenants. Try hard not to be a sore winner.
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I doubt very much that you will be able to get the repairs and improvements you want (or deserve), even at a fair rent rate for that area, even if the landlords promise to do it. These landlords/uncles have been coasting along on the current arrangement (cheap rent for tenants, little work for the landlords). They haven't been treating this as a business and probably still aren't, they've just realized they could be getting more money. They very likely haven't thought through all of the logistics of implementing the work they'll owe the place if they raise the rent.
This is not going to be worth $650 a month to them:
- consistent, timely yardwork/snow removal
- reasonably quick responses to tenant requests
- repairs to existing damage
- upgrades to old appliances before they fail and create bigger problems/damage
Even if you create a written lease and agree to the new rent in exchange for promises of landlord cooperation in the above improvements, I highly, highly doubt that they will actually hold up their end of the bargain. And it will create tension because you'll be expecting the uncles to act like landlords, but you'll still have to see them at Thanksgiving.
I think you'd be much better off finding another apartment with a landlord who a) treats upkeep of the place as his job, and b) isn't a relative so you can comfortably keep things totally businesslike if you need to.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is not going to be worth $650 a month to them:
- consistent, timely yardwork/snow removal
- reasonably quick responses to tenant requests
- repairs to existing damage
- upgrades to old appliances before they fail and create bigger problems/damage
Even if you create a written lease and agree to the new rent in exchange for promises of landlord cooperation in the above improvements, I highly, highly doubt that they will actually hold up their end of the bargain. And it will create tension because you'll be expecting the uncles to act like landlords, but you'll still have to see them at Thanksgiving.
I think you'd be much better off finding another apartment with a landlord who a) treats upkeep of the place as his job, and b) isn't a relative so you can comfortably keep things totally businesslike if you need to.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Funny, I am in a really, really similar situation. I've been renting a condo from my mom and her boyfriend for the past 7 years, and the first few years I paid a low rent. Then my fiance moved in and the rent went up, which I didn't have much of a problem with. I paid a low rent because it was what I could afford, but with another person there who wasn't family, it only seemed right for us to pay the market value. But--they don't fix anything, we take care of the yard, etc. Basically I feel that they take advantage because I'm family, but I can't really complain too much because I got a break for a few years.
Personally, the only reason I'm still in this situation is for my daughter. When I first moved in it was a way for me to rent in a nicer neighborhood than I could afford, with a better school system. By the time my fiance moved in she was already in high school, and we didn't want to have her have to change schools or the neighborhood she already has friends in, so we just suck it up and deal with the situation. But, as soon as my daughter graduates next year, we are OUT. It SUCKS having relatives for your landlord...I could go on and on about the problems it has caused.
I realize that this is just a personal anecdote, and not the legal advice you're really looking for, but I just wanted to add to the people who are telling you it's better to just move. Unless you know these people well, and you all reeaaaallly get along (which so far it sounds like you won't), and everyone involved has really good boundaries, it will probably cause you more grief than it's worth. Just move.
posted by cottonswab at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Personally, the only reason I'm still in this situation is for my daughter. When I first moved in it was a way for me to rent in a nicer neighborhood than I could afford, with a better school system. By the time my fiance moved in she was already in high school, and we didn't want to have her have to change schools or the neighborhood she already has friends in, so we just suck it up and deal with the situation. But, as soon as my daughter graduates next year, we are OUT. It SUCKS having relatives for your landlord...I could go on and on about the problems it has caused.
I realize that this is just a personal anecdote, and not the legal advice you're really looking for, but I just wanted to add to the people who are telling you it's better to just move. Unless you know these people well, and you all reeaaaallly get along (which so far it sounds like you won't), and everyone involved has really good boundaries, it will probably cause you more grief than it's worth. Just move.
posted by cottonswab at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
My father-in-law is our landlord. Our renting relationship works for a couple of reasons. First of all, my FIL is a landlord by trade. He owns multiple properties and knows what he's doing. Second, he treats us (basically) the same as any of his other tenants. We sign a lease every year, and pay fair rent including late fees when we don't pay on time. Our rent is slightly lower than what he could probably 'get' for this house and he hasn't raised rent at all for us, but we do all the maintenance and upkeep ourselves. We get plenty of notice when somebody is going to be coming by for whatever reason, and nobody ever just drops in. Other than the raises in rent we are treated just like any other renters. (Legally not socially) When we got our dog we even signed a new lease with a pet clause and paid a pet deposit.
I think if you want to stay at this house you'll have to do things completely by the book. If they want the raise in rent then insist on a lease. That way they know what they're allowed, and you know they can't sell it out from under you for at least a year. If they won't agree to a lease then I think it's safer to walk away.
I really don't think this is a good situation for you. Family can do business together, but it takes a lot of work to keep things trouble free. I just don't get the feeling that this is going to be working out well for anybody. I think you and your girlfriend should just find a new place and save the headaches.
posted by TooFewShoes at 7:35 AM on June 7, 2010
I think if you want to stay at this house you'll have to do things completely by the book. If they want the raise in rent then insist on a lease. That way they know what they're allowed, and you know they can't sell it out from under you for at least a year. If they won't agree to a lease then I think it's safer to walk away.
I really don't think this is a good situation for you. Family can do business together, but it takes a lot of work to keep things trouble free. I just don't get the feeling that this is going to be working out well for anybody. I think you and your girlfriend should just find a new place and save the headaches.
posted by TooFewShoes at 7:35 AM on June 7, 2010
they come in whenever they want to make home improvements
That would be a complete dealbreaker for me. If you stay (and me, I'd definitely be looking elsewhere in your situation), you absolutely must get a lease that spells out things normal leases routinely spell out, like how much notice they have to give you before showing up at the door to "make improvements."
posted by mediareport at 8:31 AM on June 7, 2010
That would be a complete dealbreaker for me. If you stay (and me, I'd definitely be looking elsewhere in your situation), you absolutely must get a lease that spells out things normal leases routinely spell out, like how much notice they have to give you before showing up at the door to "make improvements."
posted by mediareport at 8:31 AM on June 7, 2010
they come in whenever they want to make home improvements
That would be a complete dealbreaker for me. If you stay (and me, I'd definitely be looking elsewhere in your situation), you absolutely must get a lease that spells out things normal leases routinely spell out, like how much notice they have to give you before showing up at the door to "make improvements."
The problem is that it is really, really hard, with family, to have to spell things out that basically say, "Don't come over my house without asking." The fact that this needs to be said at all is a really bad sign and they probably will not take it well. This was the problem I had--my mom and her bf showing up when they felt like it. Or, they would come over for a regular visit but then walk all over my house looking at stuff, and feel like they were entitled to do so because you know, they were just "checking out their property."
posted by cottonswab at 9:07 AM on June 7, 2010
That would be a complete dealbreaker for me. If you stay (and me, I'd definitely be looking elsewhere in your situation), you absolutely must get a lease that spells out things normal leases routinely spell out, like how much notice they have to give you before showing up at the door to "make improvements."
The problem is that it is really, really hard, with family, to have to spell things out that basically say, "Don't come over my house without asking." The fact that this needs to be said at all is a really bad sign and they probably will not take it well. This was the problem I had--my mom and her bf showing up when they felt like it. Or, they would come over for a regular visit but then walk all over my house looking at stuff, and feel like they were entitled to do so because you know, they were just "checking out their property."
posted by cottonswab at 9:07 AM on June 7, 2010
"There is no written lease (a big no no for landlords)"
You are a defacto "tenant at will"; your rental agreement is allowed to be verbal.
"It's obvious they want the increase in rent to pay for all the improvements they are making to the house so they can sell it. (They've have had to fix the water heater, the plumbing, and there will be more) I believe it is also illegal to increase rent in Massachusetts or anywhere to do this."
In BC your landlord can increase your rent for any reason they want; only the amount of increase is regulated by law. I'd be surprised if any jurisdiction that allows for rent increases regulates the allowable reasons for the increase; after all any landlord could honestly says "We just want more money". Reason for the increase does not seem to be a factor in Massachusetts either. From the Consumer affairs and business regulation site:
If they are illegal and not just old this would probably be a good way to get evicted by the state and with a lot less notice than 30 days.
"Rent has always been paid and we are the ones that take care of the property (which we shouldn't have to do)."
Is it normal for snow removal; lawn cutting and that kind of thing to be included when renting a house there? It is mighty unusual here unless the property has a strata/HOA that does it.
Unless the new rent amount is substatially below market I'd just give ample notice (IE: I'd give it today for a July 31st move out day) and move. No potential drama with your future wife's family is worth such a GRAR inducing (regardless of the legalities) situation.
posted by Mitheral at 9:33 AM on June 7, 2010
You are a defacto "tenant at will"; your rental agreement is allowed to be verbal.
"It's obvious they want the increase in rent to pay for all the improvements they are making to the house so they can sell it. (They've have had to fix the water heater, the plumbing, and there will be more) I believe it is also illegal to increase rent in Massachusetts or anywhere to do this."
In BC your landlord can increase your rent for any reason they want; only the amount of increase is regulated by law. I'd be surprised if any jurisdiction that allows for rent increases regulates the allowable reasons for the increase; after all any landlord could honestly says "We just want more money". Reason for the increase does not seem to be a factor in Massachusetts either. From the Consumer affairs and business regulation site:
Rent Increases"A quick call to the Board of Health and an inspection will result in the fact that many things in the house are illegal and not up to code. (This is a last resort.)"
A rental increase may be any amount the landlord wishes to charge. Rent for a Tenant with a Lease can be increased only when the lease term expires. Tenants at Will may face a rent increase at any time, as long as notice is received at least one full rental period, but not less than 30 days, before it becomes effective.
If they are illegal and not just old this would probably be a good way to get evicted by the state and with a lot less notice than 30 days.
"Rent has always been paid and we are the ones that take care of the property (which we shouldn't have to do)."
Is it normal for snow removal; lawn cutting and that kind of thing to be included when renting a house there? It is mighty unusual here unless the property has a strata/HOA that does it.
Unless the new rent amount is substatially below market I'd just give ample notice (IE: I'd give it today for a July 31st move out day) and move. No potential drama with your future wife's family is worth such a GRAR inducing (regardless of the legalities) situation.
posted by Mitheral at 9:33 AM on June 7, 2010
I don't really see anywhere in your post about how your girlfriend feels about the situation.
Whether or not you are in the right or wrong, I don't really think it is your issue to sort out. You are discussing her family, not yours, and therefore the decisions about what to do should also be hers, not yours.
Were it me...I would just find a nice place to live, give notice in a timely fashion and move out, saving the family ties and my own pocketbook the stress of it all.
posted by CoffeeDregs at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Whether or not you are in the right or wrong, I don't really think it is your issue to sort out. You are discussing her family, not yours, and therefore the decisions about what to do should also be hers, not yours.
Were it me...I would just find a nice place to live, give notice in a timely fashion and move out, saving the family ties and my own pocketbook the stress of it all.
posted by CoffeeDregs at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Respectfully, that link you quoted is, imho, a lot of high-blown fiction with some basis in law. It is NOT the Massachusetts landlord-tenant code. I stopped reading when the author advised that it was a great idea for potential landlords to have lease signings in the future tenant's current kitchen (on the grounds that they would 'learn something' about the tenants that way). Maybe you like it because you think it gives you grounds to fight this but I would be wary as using it as some sort of bargaining chip with the uncles.
I was never licensed as a real estate agent in massachusetts but as others have said, there is right, and then there is what it's worth to fight. You probably have a super-sweet rent deal that you were counting on, and now you're losing it, and you want to fight them legally to prove that you can't be taken advantage, or something. But you're fighting your future family, and the repercussions of this will be felt FOR YEARS.
You're going to call the authorities because the place isn't "up to code"? Are you any kind of building inspector? Have you actually read the building code? Because most people quote "up to code" to me about stuff like when they want new windows because the old ones are drafty. The old ones are perfectly functional but they're old. That doesn't mean they're not 'up to code'. Nothing you have listed is illegal or not up to code, and what would you gain by this? Do you really think you would continue to have a cordial relationship with your girlfriend's family? It's not your house and you're on an oral lease. You're engaging in this warfare over a rental.
I would not be so sure the law would be on your side in this. But even if it would, what do you actually gain except completely alienating your girlfriend's family? How can that be a good thing? Maybe they're totally wrong and you're totally right. But it's not your house.
posted by micawber at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was never licensed as a real estate agent in massachusetts but as others have said, there is right, and then there is what it's worth to fight. You probably have a super-sweet rent deal that you were counting on, and now you're losing it, and you want to fight them legally to prove that you can't be taken advantage, or something. But you're fighting your future family, and the repercussions of this will be felt FOR YEARS.
You're going to call the authorities because the place isn't "up to code"? Are you any kind of building inspector? Have you actually read the building code? Because most people quote "up to code" to me about stuff like when they want new windows because the old ones are drafty. The old ones are perfectly functional but they're old. That doesn't mean they're not 'up to code'. Nothing you have listed is illegal or not up to code, and what would you gain by this? Do you really think you would continue to have a cordial relationship with your girlfriend's family? It's not your house and you're on an oral lease. You're engaging in this warfare over a rental.
I would not be so sure the law would be on your side in this. But even if it would, what do you actually gain except completely alienating your girlfriend's family? How can that be a good thing? Maybe they're totally wrong and you're totally right. But it's not your house.
posted by micawber at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Move. Never mix law and in-laws.
Correct. Absolutely. There's not really any good coming of this relationship with higher rent, possibilities of house sale and 'landlords' acting like family when it's convenient (When they have to DO stuff) and landlords when it's not (When they want money).
They are taking advantage of your girlfriend, in my opinion. Yes, she's family and they probably aren't doing it to be mean, but I'll bet they'd rather have her there then some stranger who would insist on, y'know, legal tenancy arrangements.
posted by Quadlex at 4:42 PM on June 9, 2010
Correct. Absolutely. There's not really any good coming of this relationship with higher rent, possibilities of house sale and 'landlords' acting like family when it's convenient (When they have to DO stuff) and landlords when it's not (When they want money).
They are taking advantage of your girlfriend, in my opinion. Yes, she's family and they probably aren't doing it to be mean, but I'll bet they'd rather have her there then some stranger who would insist on, y'know, legal tenancy arrangements.
posted by Quadlex at 4:42 PM on June 9, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ukdanae at 5:30 AM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]