You made me miss my marathon, so you can pay for it
May 15, 2010 10:24 PM Subscribe
What liability do you have if someone is injured in front of your house due to an obstruction you caused?
My friend was walking down a sidewalk today, and tripped over a bean bag toss board (it looked a lot like this) that was set up on the sidewalk in front of someone's house. It was pretty wide, and took up most of the sidewalk. I had to step into the grass to go around it. He was distracted (ironically, by a huge sign the owners of the house had erected) and didn't notice it. He fell, scraping his shin badly and possibly causing more leg injuries.
It would just be a minor annoyance, but he is scheduled to run a half-marathon tomorrow, which he may not be able to do depending on how he feels when he wakes up. He's pretty devastated about losing the entrance fee (a good amount of money, for a college student), as well as heartbroken about not getting to run the race he's been training for for months.
Hopefully it's just a scratch and he'll feel fine tomorrow. If he doesn't, we plan on writing a strongly-worded letter to the owners of the house asking them for reimbursement for the race entrance fee. We don't expect them to pay, but I think the act would make him feel better.
We have no intention to sue (it seems extremely petty) but the incident made me wonder — what if an older man or woman had tripped over their boards and was severely injured? This was about 1 block from Wrigley Field on a sidewalk by a major road, and I could easily see this happening again. Their house had a fence around their yard, which the boards were outside of (there were about eight twenty-somethings sitting on the porch). If we write a letter, I'd like to be able to say something like: Please don't keep your boards on the major, well-trafficked sidewalk, because if someone were severely injured you could be at fault & on the hook for their costs. But would they be at fault, or would the person be pretty much screwed? Are you liable for an injury on the sidewalk in front of your property if you created the obstruction that caused the injury?
I tried to Google this but mostly got personal injury lawyers advocating for clients.
My friend was walking down a sidewalk today, and tripped over a bean bag toss board (it looked a lot like this) that was set up on the sidewalk in front of someone's house. It was pretty wide, and took up most of the sidewalk. I had to step into the grass to go around it. He was distracted (ironically, by a huge sign the owners of the house had erected) and didn't notice it. He fell, scraping his shin badly and possibly causing more leg injuries.
It would just be a minor annoyance, but he is scheduled to run a half-marathon tomorrow, which he may not be able to do depending on how he feels when he wakes up. He's pretty devastated about losing the entrance fee (a good amount of money, for a college student), as well as heartbroken about not getting to run the race he's been training for for months.
Hopefully it's just a scratch and he'll feel fine tomorrow. If he doesn't, we plan on writing a strongly-worded letter to the owners of the house asking them for reimbursement for the race entrance fee. We don't expect them to pay, but I think the act would make him feel better.
We have no intention to sue (it seems extremely petty) but the incident made me wonder — what if an older man or woman had tripped over their boards and was severely injured? This was about 1 block from Wrigley Field on a sidewalk by a major road, and I could easily see this happening again. Their house had a fence around their yard, which the boards were outside of (there were about eight twenty-somethings sitting on the porch). If we write a letter, I'd like to be able to say something like: Please don't keep your boards on the major, well-trafficked sidewalk, because if someone were severely injured you could be at fault & on the hook for their costs. But would they be at fault, or would the person be pretty much screwed? Are you liable for an injury on the sidewalk in front of your property if you created the obstruction that caused the injury?
I tried to Google this but mostly got personal injury lawyers advocating for clients.
Response by poster: Seriously? We have no intention of pursuing anything. I am just asking if, legally, there would any liability in a more serious situation I could note. I know my grandfather would hound them endlessly if he tripped over some massive board placed on a sidewalk on a major road.
posted by elisabethjw at 10:57 PM on May 15, 2010
posted by elisabethjw at 10:57 PM on May 15, 2010
Best answer: I am not the OP's attorney. This is not legal advice.
The OP is simply asking a hypo that's a variant on stuff that comes up in any first-year torts class. This is an interesting writeup, as it pertains to California law.
And here's an article about the situation in NYC, which describes a change in the law last decade:
The OP is simply asking a hypo that's a variant on stuff that comes up in any first-year torts class. This is an interesting writeup, as it pertains to California law.
And here's an article about the situation in NYC, which describes a change in the law last decade:
Before Sept. 15, Mr. Clark said, property owners had a legal duty to maintain the sidewalks in front of their buildings in ''safe repair'' and ''free of all snow and debris'' even though the sidewalk itself was owned by the city. Notwithstanding that obligation, the city remained civilly liable for any damages sustained by people who were injured as the result of defects or unsafe conditions. ..posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:15 PM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Basically, he said, the [new] law requires property owners to ''install, construct, reconstruct, repave, repair or replace'' defective sidewalk components. The law also requires the owner to remove ''snow, ice, dirt or other material from the sidewalk.''
Response by poster: Thanks so much, Conrad. That's all I'm asking. Obviously we know he's partially at fault, and have no intention to do anything more than write a quick email -- but there was a definite obstruction and I wanted to know if that could create any legal problems in the future that we might bring up.
It also admittedly made me curious about my own sidewalk/liabilities, which is on a pretty quiet, residential street, but occasionally has chairs on it after cook-outs etc.
posted by elisabethjw at 11:19 PM on May 15, 2010
It also admittedly made me curious about my own sidewalk/liabilities, which is on a pretty quiet, residential street, but occasionally has chairs on it after cook-outs etc.
posted by elisabethjw at 11:19 PM on May 15, 2010
Following jrockway, the concept of contributory negligence certainly comes into play. Not watching where you are going is pretty contributory and it would severely mitigate or remove the landowner's liability. Then you also got consequential damages which are rarely awarded in simple tort, a classic example is the photo lab screwing up my travel photos, they don't owe me a replacement vacation; as applied here, your friend is out a marathon, stuff happens.
Most homeowner insurance policies carry pretty generous liability coverage for people who injure themselves on your property. Not only would your hypothetical letter to the landowner likely be false, it would also be kind of risible; if you must write it, do so anonymously. Better still, write it and trash it thus saving them the hassle.
posted by fydfyd at 11:29 PM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Most homeowner insurance policies carry pretty generous liability coverage for people who injure themselves on your property. Not only would your hypothetical letter to the landowner likely be false, it would also be kind of risible; if you must write it, do so anonymously. Better still, write it and trash it thus saving them the hassle.
posted by fydfyd at 11:29 PM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hope this link works - these are some (heavily redacted) summaries of sidewalk injury cases. You can use the pull-down menu to narrow it down to just Massachusetts. These fall under the general rubric (in case the OP wants to do some more Googling) of "premises liability."
That said, I don't think the idea of the letter is wise, nor do I think it would accomplish anything.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:41 PM on May 15, 2010
That said, I don't think the idea of the letter is wise, nor do I think it would accomplish anything.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:41 PM on May 15, 2010
Response by poster: If a letter sounds like a bad call then that's fine. I'll just keep the info in mind for future issues. Thanks, though - the info has been very interesting regardless.
posted by elisabethjw at 11:52 PM on May 15, 2010
posted by elisabethjw at 11:52 PM on May 15, 2010
chicago? talk to the alderman for that ward. they'll handle talking to them about it. that would be a bit stronger and better than anything you'd write.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 5:08 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by lester's sock puppet at 5:08 AM on May 16, 2010
How did you plan to learn the email address?
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:14 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:14 AM on May 16, 2010
Perhaps you could write a gently-worded letter (instead of strongly-worded), merely asking them to take a little extra care about what they leave on the sidewalk and for how long. Be clear that you're not threatening them, not asking for anything, but raising everyone's awareness. You might prevent another accident later, especially if their sidewalk is that heavily traveled, and it might also serve the purpose of helping you and your friend feel a little bit better. Helping instead of acting out of anger can do that.
Just be sure you're not writing in any kind of passive-aggressive way (which I fear is how my comment here may be interpreted -- believe it or not, it's sincere).
posted by amtho at 5:23 AM on May 16, 2010
Just be sure you're not writing in any kind of passive-aggressive way (which I fear is how my comment here may be interpreted -- believe it or not, it's sincere).
posted by amtho at 5:23 AM on May 16, 2010
Unless the thing was painted with invisible ink, I doubt you are going to get anything from anyone. Yes, they don't have the right to take up the whole sidewalk. But it didn't cause the accident- your friend not looking where he was going did.
And beanbag *always* ends in an argument, so you probably did the right thing in not addressing the situation then and there.
posted by gjc at 6:42 AM on May 16, 2010
And beanbag *always* ends in an argument, so you probably did the right thing in not addressing the situation then and there.
posted by gjc at 6:42 AM on May 16, 2010
Yep, the strongly worded letter is a bad move. For all you know it was little kids playing and they took a bathroom break. Not saying that would keep them from being at fault or anything, but people need to watch where they're walking.
posted by theichibun at 6:45 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by theichibun at 6:45 AM on May 16, 2010
Not sure about where you are, but where I am, it's criminal if a person "...obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on a public way." Granted, I doubt an arrest would get made in this circumstance, and it'd probably get knocked down to a violation anyway, but still... you could technically go to jail for something like that in my neck of the woods.
posted by Menthol at 6:53 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by Menthol at 6:53 AM on May 16, 2010
If you did sue, you'd primarily be fighting the obviousness doctrine. Basically it states that if something is obvious to reasonable people, the landowner doesn't have a duty to warn.
Still, I think any landowners who leaves large obstacles on the sidewalk for pedestrians to negotiate is an assdouche. And just for my peace of mind, I would sue them. There are consequences to suing people even if you ultimately lose. The landowner's home insurance premiums will increase, as they should, assuming they are renting to irresponsible youths who leave large obstacles on the sidewalk. If they have insurance and their claim is covered, their insurance company will pay all defense fees and because they are corporate, they will examine the bottom line. Is it worth it to pay this plaintiff some nuisance money to go away (your marathon entrance fee) or should we keep paying $200+ hour to our lawyers to fight this? They will pay you. The cost of a single deposition is more than your entrance fee. They will settle and pay you. You might be out $300 for your filing fee if you're willing to fill out a simple complaint form on your own. But seeing as how you're probably strapped for cash as a student, I can certainly understand why you would not want to go down this path.
And while Captain Obvious/"blame the victim" is right when he urges you to watch where you are going... The large distracting sign is something that reasonable people would look at while walking near the house. And what if someone disabled or blind was walking on that sidewalk? In that case the landowner would be in deep shit for not putting up a barrier around the obstacle or just clearing their sidewalk.
Lots of college frat guys play the beanboard game. It is very likely them. Although even if it was not, a homeowner is responsible for clearing obstructions on their land left by others (assuming that includes the sidewalk in that jurisdiction).
posted by KimikoPi at 10:30 AM on May 16, 2010
Still, I think any landowners who leaves large obstacles on the sidewalk for pedestrians to negotiate is an assdouche. And just for my peace of mind, I would sue them. There are consequences to suing people even if you ultimately lose. The landowner's home insurance premiums will increase, as they should, assuming they are renting to irresponsible youths who leave large obstacles on the sidewalk. If they have insurance and their claim is covered, their insurance company will pay all defense fees and because they are corporate, they will examine the bottom line. Is it worth it to pay this plaintiff some nuisance money to go away (your marathon entrance fee) or should we keep paying $200+ hour to our lawyers to fight this? They will pay you. The cost of a single deposition is more than your entrance fee. They will settle and pay you. You might be out $300 for your filing fee if you're willing to fill out a simple complaint form on your own. But seeing as how you're probably strapped for cash as a student, I can certainly understand why you would not want to go down this path.
And while Captain Obvious/"blame the victim" is right when he urges you to watch where you are going... The large distracting sign is something that reasonable people would look at while walking near the house. And what if someone disabled or blind was walking on that sidewalk? In that case the landowner would be in deep shit for not putting up a barrier around the obstacle or just clearing their sidewalk.
Lots of college frat guys play the beanboard game. It is very likely them. Although even if it was not, a homeowner is responsible for clearing obstructions on their land left by others (assuming that includes the sidewalk in that jurisdiction).
posted by KimikoPi at 10:30 AM on May 16, 2010
It was an accident! A twist of fate, an unlucky experience, etc etc. If someone tripped over your cat in your house and twisted their ankle, would you want them to sue? I think suing should be saved for serious incidents like having medical sponges left in inside of you when sewn up after being pregnant and almost dying from them rotting.
posted by meepmeow at 10:59 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by meepmeow at 10:59 AM on May 16, 2010
Not sure about where you are, but where I am, it's criminal if a person "...obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on a public way." Granted, I doubt an arrest would get made in this circumstance, and it'd probably get knocked down to a violation anyway, but still... you could technically go to jail for something like that in my neck of the woods.
To add to this and the discussion, the word that applies here is "encroachment" - the private party was encroaching on the public right of way and (typically) an "encroachment permit" is required to do this. You can be cited for failure to obtain a permit and the fine can be pretty hefty for even minor issues - i.e. a piece of heavy equipment momentarily blocking a sidewalk. Certainly injuries due to the issue would get the municipality involved. At least this is the case in several Northern California cities I have conducted work in.
posted by Big_B at 8:41 AM on May 17, 2010
To add to this and the discussion, the word that applies here is "encroachment" - the private party was encroaching on the public right of way and (typically) an "encroachment permit" is required to do this. You can be cited for failure to obtain a permit and the fine can be pretty hefty for even minor issues - i.e. a piece of heavy equipment momentarily blocking a sidewalk. Certainly injuries due to the issue would get the municipality involved. At least this is the case in several Northern California cities I have conducted work in.
posted by Big_B at 8:41 AM on May 17, 2010
« Older Do I need to disclose near-term plans? | Suggestions on configuring a MacBook for an... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jrockway at 10:34 PM on May 15, 2010