Bay Area Equivalents...
May 4, 2010 8:59 AM Subscribe
What Bay Area City Is Most Like Baltimore? Like New York Like Boston? Like Philadelphia? Like DC?
My wife and I are professionals in our late 20s. We are also lifelong San Francisco Bay Area residents. We love San Francisco: the city life, the casual attitude, and the independent spirit of its inhabitants.
However, for professional and personal reasons we want to move to the Northeast. We just do not know what city would fit us best. The choices are: DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston.
We have talked long and hard how what city would be best, but honestly we don't know much about the East Coast and our conversations are compromised by our own ignorance about what life is like in those particular cities.
However, while we not know much about the five East Coast cities, but we do know a lot about Bay Area cities. So, I am turning to the Hivemind for help.
Can some Metafities with experience in both the Bay Area and the East Coast tell us:
1) What Bay Area City Is Like DC?
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
I accept the comparisons won't be exact, but the information would be really helpful in helping us get some sort of impression of what life in these cities is like.
Thank you!
My wife and I are professionals in our late 20s. We are also lifelong San Francisco Bay Area residents. We love San Francisco: the city life, the casual attitude, and the independent spirit of its inhabitants.
However, for professional and personal reasons we want to move to the Northeast. We just do not know what city would fit us best. The choices are: DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston.
We have talked long and hard how what city would be best, but honestly we don't know much about the East Coast and our conversations are compromised by our own ignorance about what life is like in those particular cities.
However, while we not know much about the five East Coast cities, but we do know a lot about Bay Area cities. So, I am turning to the Hivemind for help.
Can some Metafities with experience in both the Bay Area and the East Coast tell us:
1) What Bay Area City Is Like DC?
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
I accept the comparisons won't be exact, but the information would be really helpful in helping us get some sort of impression of what life in these cities is like.
Thank you!
I'd suggest New York would be the closest San Francisco analogue, due to its layout, its access to public transportation, its historical character, etc. However, it's not the sort of hippie enclave that San Francisco is in terms of "flavor."
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2010
I can't even think of five bay area cities to match with your five east coast options: San Francisco, San Jose and Oakland are the only sizable bay area cities that come to mind.
Some parts of San Francisco are sort of like some parts of Brooklyn (I'll wait for someone to tell me how wrong I am. I've spent more time in SF than Brooklyn), though Brooklyn is 2x the size and 4x the population of SF.
posted by Hello, Revelers! I am Captain Lavender! at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2010
Some parts of San Francisco are sort of like some parts of Brooklyn (I'll wait for someone to tell me how wrong I am. I've spent more time in SF than Brooklyn), though Brooklyn is 2x the size and 4x the population of SF.
posted by Hello, Revelers! I am Captain Lavender! at 9:19 AM on May 4, 2010
I think DTT is pretty spot on with his comparison, but NYC is unlike anything in the bay area and SF is unlike anything on the east coast.
posted by foodgeek at 9:24 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by foodgeek at 9:24 AM on May 4, 2010
The only thing colder than Boston weather is Boston people. I don't think that applies to any Bay Area city.
posted by ewiar at 9:28 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by ewiar at 9:28 AM on May 4, 2010
The only thing colder than Boston weather is Boston people. I don't think that applies to any Bay Area city.
I'm not sure I'd call the entire Oakland populace warm and fuzzy.
posted by foodgeek at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2010
I'm not sure I'd call the entire Oakland populace warm and fuzzy.
posted by foodgeek at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2010
I would say that Berkeley is very similar to Cambridge, although I don't know if San Francisco is similar to Boston. But if you're looking for a young, liberal, intellectual atmosphere, I think Cambridge is one of your best bets.
I agree with Damn That Television's other assessments: Baltimore is like Sacramento. And DC is unlike anything else.
posted by shaun uh at 9:37 AM on May 4, 2010
I agree with Damn That Television's other assessments: Baltimore is like Sacramento. And DC is unlike anything else.
posted by shaun uh at 9:37 AM on May 4, 2010
The only thing colder than Boston weather is Boston people.
As someone who know lives in Boston who grew up in DC and has lived in New York, really? Boston has been the most "welcoming" of those three.
I have never been to the Bay Area, so I can't be super helpful in comparisons, though I am very familiar with all the cities you mentioned. Baltimore is an interesting city kind of experiencing an interesting face change - lots of young people, lots less crime than it used to be, and an interesting evolving arts scene. For some reason I associate this the most with the West coast, though this is just my biases.
posted by CharlieSue at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2010
As someone who know lives in Boston who grew up in DC and has lived in New York, really? Boston has been the most "welcoming" of those three.
I have never been to the Bay Area, so I can't be super helpful in comparisons, though I am very familiar with all the cities you mentioned. Baltimore is an interesting city kind of experiencing an interesting face change - lots of young people, lots less crime than it used to be, and an interesting evolving arts scene. For some reason I associate this the most with the West coast, though this is just my biases.
posted by CharlieSue at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2010
Having moved from Philly to SF 5 years ago. I feel fairly confident after my time on the East Coast in saying that the experience of living in San Francisco as a whole is really quite a bit unlike living on the East Coast -- or at least Philly -- on the whole.
As a different data point, my friends who have moved to the East Coast from San Francisco and Oakland seem to like Brooklyn quite a bit.
I would strongly recommend discussing neighborhoods and boroughs rather than cities as a whole -- knowing what neighborhoods you like in Bay Area communities would help us much more. I can think of neighborhoods in SF that are sort of like certain neighborhoods in Philly, even though when taken as a whole the two cities couldn't be more different.
posted by eschatfische at 9:56 AM on May 4, 2010
As a different data point, my friends who have moved to the East Coast from San Francisco and Oakland seem to like Brooklyn quite a bit.
I would strongly recommend discussing neighborhoods and boroughs rather than cities as a whole -- knowing what neighborhoods you like in Bay Area communities would help us much more. I can think of neighborhoods in SF that are sort of like certain neighborhoods in Philly, even though when taken as a whole the two cities couldn't be more different.
posted by eschatfische at 9:56 AM on May 4, 2010
1) What Bay Area City Is Like DC?
Civic Center
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
Oakland
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
Oakland
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
The entire Bay Area
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
San Francisco
FWIW I've lived in New York, Oakland, and Boston; I presently live in SF.
posted by gyusan at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Civic Center
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
Oakland
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
Oakland
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
The entire Bay Area
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
San Francisco
FWIW I've lived in New York, Oakland, and Boston; I presently live in SF.
posted by gyusan at 10:02 AM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi Eschatfische,
In San Francisco, we loved the Mission, Castro, and SOMA.
In Oakland, we loved Piedmont.
In other words, we loved neighborhoods lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance.
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2010
In San Francisco, we loved the Mission, Castro, and SOMA.
In Oakland, we loved Piedmont.
In other words, we loved neighborhoods lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance.
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:04 AM on May 4, 2010
Having lived in Oakland, SF and DC and currently biding my time in Boston before I can move back to the Bay Area, I agree with the sentiments above that there aren't east coast matches for any of the west coast cities. Boston is most certainly not like Oakland.
However, Cambridge = Berkeley is as close as you're going to get.
I think you'll get a lot better answers about where to move if you tell us what's important to you -- public transportation, weather, arts scene, bar scene, entertainment, nice people?
posted by purplevelvet at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2010
However, Cambridge = Berkeley is as close as you're going to get.
I think you'll get a lot better answers about where to move if you tell us what's important to you -- public transportation, weather, arts scene, bar scene, entertainment, nice people?
posted by purplevelvet at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2010
Response by poster: Hi Gyusan,
Out of the cities you have lived in, which was your favorite?
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2010
Out of the cities you have lived in, which was your favorite?
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2010
I grew up in DC and love it, so I am biased, but I think you'd probably find the closest analogue to SF there, specifically in Tacoma Park or around the Dupont Circle neighborhood. As buttoned down as it can be in DC, New England is ten times worse, and New York is a hundred times more hectic (though I love NY as well). Maybe if you can list some very specific things you enjoy about SF, and what you want to get out of your city living (concerts? movies? lectures? walking? museums? outdoor acess?) that would help. In general, I've found that West Coast cities are nothing like East Coast cities, except certain depressed port towns (Oakland, Baltimore, Providence) seem to have echos of the general feeling you get there. Note that while they are technically in the Northest part of the country, DC, Baltimore, and New York are all really in the Mid-Atlantic region, which is a different beast from New England, which is what most East-coasters consider the "Northeast."
posted by mzurer at 10:13 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by mzurer at 10:13 AM on May 4, 2010
Response by poster: Hi Purplevelvet,
We are really looking for a neighborhood with lots of small, casual coffee shops, bakeries, restaurants, and pubs.
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:14 AM on May 4, 2010
We are really looking for a neighborhood with lots of small, casual coffee shops, bakeries, restaurants, and pubs.
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:14 AM on May 4, 2010
Response by poster: I think the key feature is "casual" and "walkable". We are scared to death of DC's suit-wearing power couple reputation. And at a cocktail party I'd have more in common with the waiters.
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:17 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by LudgerLassen at 10:17 AM on May 4, 2010
Not what you're looking for, but I was talking to a Chinese friend and trying to get a handle on what 'normal' weather in Bejing is like (they've had a rough winter.) He said it was roughly like Baltimore.
As buttoned down as it can be in DC, New England is ten times worse...
Utter crap, even if you run in preppy circles (which, contrary to popular belief, is a tiny part of NE life.) Hell, DC was the last market to have buttons made specifically for them, because they were fashion-adverse (ironically, those buttons tended to be made in NE. But then we got NAFTA, and DC started to think it was NYC.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:31 AM on May 4, 2010
As buttoned down as it can be in DC, New England is ten times worse...
Utter crap, even if you run in preppy circles (which, contrary to popular belief, is a tiny part of NE life.) Hell, DC was the last market to have buttons made specifically for them, because they were fashion-adverse (ironically, those buttons tended to be made in NE. But then we got NAFTA, and DC started to think it was NYC.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:31 AM on May 4, 2010
In other words, we loved neighborhoods lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance.
then you need to move to new york, where every single borough has MULTIPLE neighborhoods like this. most neighborhoods actually have multiple microneighborhoods like this. i work at home and have very easily spent entire weeks without ever going ten blocks from my apartment because i have access to so many amazing things near me.
posted by lia at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2010
then you need to move to new york, where every single borough has MULTIPLE neighborhoods like this. most neighborhoods actually have multiple microneighborhoods like this. i work at home and have very easily spent entire weeks without ever going ten blocks from my apartment because i have access to so many amazing things near me.
posted by lia at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2010
In other words, we loved neighborhoods lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance.
Cambridge is like this, too, although obviously on a smaller scale than New York. I live near Central Square, and have lots and lots of options for all three (especially coffeeshops) within a 15-minute walk.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:56 AM on May 4, 2010
Cambridge is like this, too, although obviously on a smaller scale than New York. I live near Central Square, and have lots and lots of options for all three (especially coffeeshops) within a 15-minute walk.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:56 AM on May 4, 2010
I'd argue that Baltimore is way more like Oakland. I didn't live there, but I lived in DC for seven years and Baltimore always has this kind of hip-ghetto-good-music reputation.
As others have mentioned, DC isn't really like any other city in the US. Adams Morgan/Columbia Heights/Mount Pleasant are definitely the cool parts of town, where you will find lots of fun shops and coffee houses and good music venues.
But if you're moving to the East Coast and will miss San Francisco, just move to Carroll Gardens or Park Slope in Brooklyn. I was just at the new Blue Bottle in Williamsburg and the baristas were both SF transports--practically like I never left home.
posted by timoni at 1:04 PM on May 4, 2010
As others have mentioned, DC isn't really like any other city in the US. Adams Morgan/Columbia Heights/Mount Pleasant are definitely the cool parts of town, where you will find lots of fun shops and coffee houses and good music venues.
But if you're moving to the East Coast and will miss San Francisco, just move to Carroll Gardens or Park Slope in Brooklyn. I was just at the new Blue Bottle in Williamsburg and the baristas were both SF transports--practically like I never left home.
posted by timoni at 1:04 PM on May 4, 2010
I spent a couple of years in San Francisco, grew up in Manhattan, and have spent a fair amount of time in all the cities you list above, except for Baltimore. I currently live in Boston (which I can't wait to leave, it is just horrendous here). I loved San Francisco and am hoping to move back fairly soon.
Brooklyn is absolutely where you want to be based on what you wrote above. The comparisons between NE cities and SF Bay Area cities that you ask for are impossible to make, in general. However, one could say that NYC is like the entire Bay Area... and San Francisco is Brooklyn.
My fiancee adds: "Yes, Brooklyn. It would offer you the laid-back lifestyle of San Francisco (or as close as you can get in the Northeast), with all its world-class amenities".
posted by thumpasor at 2:26 PM on May 4, 2010
Brooklyn is absolutely where you want to be based on what you wrote above. The comparisons between NE cities and SF Bay Area cities that you ask for are impossible to make, in general. However, one could say that NYC is like the entire Bay Area... and San Francisco is Brooklyn.
My fiancee adds: "Yes, Brooklyn. It would offer you the laid-back lifestyle of San Francisco (or as close as you can get in the Northeast), with all its world-class amenities".
posted by thumpasor at 2:26 PM on May 4, 2010
I hate those generalizations about Bostonians being unfriendly. It's not the case.
New Englanders tend to be more private and may not exhibit that fake, chatty demeanor that's present in a lot of the country.
Having been to all the cities that you list, I'd vote for either Boston or NYC.
Boston is great. Very walkable; good public transit. Depending on your age and demeanor, there are many Boston neighborhoods that you'd probably love.
Stay away from Baltimore; it's a hole.
DC could be ok, but it's very govt oriented and that can be hard if you don't work in the govt.
Visit both NYC and Boston and try to take a week or so in each city.
posted by reddot at 2:31 PM on May 4, 2010
New Englanders tend to be more private and may not exhibit that fake, chatty demeanor that's present in a lot of the country.
Having been to all the cities that you list, I'd vote for either Boston or NYC.
Boston is great. Very walkable; good public transit. Depending on your age and demeanor, there are many Boston neighborhoods that you'd probably love.
Stay away from Baltimore; it's a hole.
DC could be ok, but it's very govt oriented and that can be hard if you don't work in the govt.
Visit both NYC and Boston and try to take a week or so in each city.
posted by reddot at 2:31 PM on May 4, 2010
Anecdotally: a lot of people I know move back and forth between the Bay Area (generally SF proper, Oakland for those who're trying to save money, and Berkeley for the ones in school) and the Boston area (generally Cambridge and Somerville); fewer seem to add New York to the mix, possibly because of the sorts of industries/universities in the cities but also due to the character of the city. The consensus seems to be that while they definitely have different attitudes, Boston and San Francisco have a lot in common. I can think of quite a few Boston-area neighborhoods that certainly fulfill your request for "lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance" - mostly in areas where you've got easy access to lots of great music, theater, the subway, etc. as well.
Of course, it's certainly very dependent on where in the city you live, where you work, and the sort of people you socialize with. I mean, Boston "ten times more buttoned down than DC"? Or like Oakland?! I'm sure that describes some people and neighborhoods in Boston, but it couldn't be further from my experiences, or the impressions I've had of Oakland and DC when visiting friends and family.
posted by ubersturm at 3:17 PM on May 4, 2010
Of course, it's certainly very dependent on where in the city you live, where you work, and the sort of people you socialize with. I mean, Boston "ten times more buttoned down than DC"? Or like Oakland?! I'm sure that describes some people and neighborhoods in Boston, but it couldn't be further from my experiences, or the impressions I've had of Oakland and DC when visiting friends and family.
posted by ubersturm at 3:17 PM on May 4, 2010
I did this in reverse when I moved here. One thing that helped was to overlay a map of northern va-dc-baltimore over a map of the bay area. San Jose -> San Francisco is like Reston, VA to Baltimore (HOLY SHIT THAT IS FAR).
1) What Bay Area City Is Like DC?
None. But SF is the closest we've got, in that it's the cultural center. It lacks the overabundance of lawyers and politicos, though.
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
Oakland. They're both shitholes.
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
I haven't been to Philly for a long time. Maybe if you compressed San Jose down to a fraction of its size, that'd be the closest thing, but not really.
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
hahahahaha. Nothing! Those are real cities.
posted by jewzilla at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2010
1) What Bay Area City Is Like DC?
None. But SF is the closest we've got, in that it's the cultural center. It lacks the overabundance of lawyers and politicos, though.
2) What Bay Area City Is Like Baltimore?
Oakland. They're both shitholes.
3) What Bay Area City Is Like Philadelphia?
I haven't been to Philly for a long time. Maybe if you compressed San Jose down to a fraction of its size, that'd be the closest thing, but not really.
4) What Bay Area City Is Like New York?
5) What Bay Area City Is Like Boston?
hahahahaha. Nothing! Those are real cities.
posted by jewzilla at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2010
I'm a transplant from the east coast living in SF. My brother seems to think that SF is like a really big Brooklyn, whereas I see similarities with the Boston area, especially Cambridge. I think you will find areas similar to SF on the east coast, but there's nothing quite like SF. I highly recommend checking out the NYC and Boston areas, and deciding which feels the best, and which offers the best opportunity for work, etc.
posted by cleverevans at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2010
posted by cleverevans at 3:27 PM on May 4, 2010
Stay away from Baltimore; it's a hole.
A Bostonian endorsement if I ever heard one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:46 PM on May 4, 2010
A Bostonian endorsement if I ever heard one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:46 PM on May 4, 2010
Grew up in Minneapolis, lived in Boston for about four years (NOT for college), and have been in SF for four years. Spent about a month total in NYC on various weekend / four day sort of trips.
Coming from the midwest, I had a strong dislike for the, umm, emotionally constipated and very conservative vibe of Boston. Moving to SF was a huge relief. Thing is, all the east coast cities you listed are of a different culture than the bay area and you cannot hope to map them to cities out here.
Also, in my opinion, Boston has all of the problems of NYC but few of the benefits - to me it's the "smallest big city" in America after San Diego.
Which doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to have a good life there - I have no idea what you or your spouse are like, although given what you did mention about yourselves I think NYC is your best bet as it's the one city in the US along with SF and LA that really attracts people to it for creative reasons. I also hope you spend time out there before you make such a radical life change.
posted by MillMan at 3:58 PM on May 4, 2010
Coming from the midwest, I had a strong dislike for the, umm, emotionally constipated and very conservative vibe of Boston. Moving to SF was a huge relief. Thing is, all the east coast cities you listed are of a different culture than the bay area and you cannot hope to map them to cities out here.
Also, in my opinion, Boston has all of the problems of NYC but few of the benefits - to me it's the "smallest big city" in America after San Diego.
Which doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to have a good life there - I have no idea what you or your spouse are like, although given what you did mention about yourselves I think NYC is your best bet as it's the one city in the US along with SF and LA that really attracts people to it for creative reasons. I also hope you spend time out there before you make such a radical life change.
posted by MillMan at 3:58 PM on May 4, 2010
We are really looking for a neighborhood with lots of small, casual coffee shops, bakeries, restaurants, and pubs.
In the DC area: Arlington. Alexandria (not just Old Town). Check out Tyler Cowen's guide to ethnic restaurants.
I think the key feature is "casual" and "walkable". We are scared to death of DC's suit-wearing power couple reputation. And at a cocktail party I'd have more in common with the waiters.
See above. DC is not all politicians and lawyers (e.g., suit-wearing types). It's much more a business casual kind of place (our lack of fashion sense is well known). You didn't mention your fields, but there is a lot of IT work here. And you can find a place to live that's a lot less expensive than NYC or Boston.
You might also base your decision partly on what you like to do for recreation.
posted by apartment dweller at 7:08 PM on May 4, 2010
In the DC area: Arlington. Alexandria (not just Old Town). Check out Tyler Cowen's guide to ethnic restaurants.
I think the key feature is "casual" and "walkable". We are scared to death of DC's suit-wearing power couple reputation. And at a cocktail party I'd have more in common with the waiters.
See above. DC is not all politicians and lawyers (e.g., suit-wearing types). It's much more a business casual kind of place (our lack of fashion sense is well known). You didn't mention your fields, but there is a lot of IT work here. And you can find a place to live that's a lot less expensive than NYC or Boston.
You might also base your decision partly on what you like to do for recreation.
posted by apartment dweller at 7:08 PM on May 4, 2010
rockridge (oakland) is the new park slope (brooklyn). or vice versa. discuss.
posted by apostrophe at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2010
posted by apostrophe at 7:52 PM on May 4, 2010
and then temescal is the new williamsburg? and piedmont is the new upper east side? and west oakland is the new dumbo? and grand lake is the new lower east side? and berkeley's 4th street is the new soho? and berkeley's telegraph is the new east village? and north berkeley is the new west village? etc etc etc. i've only lived in NYC and Oakland so my brain works this way.
posted by apostrophe at 7:55 PM on May 4, 2010
posted by apostrophe at 7:55 PM on May 4, 2010
In other words, we loved neighborhoods lots of small bakeries, pubs, coffee shops within walking distance.
Well, c'mere and move to South Philly. Duh. I've got all that. My neighborhood rocks.
But really, SF is just...really different from the east coast. Not as different as the rest of California, but SF is what crystallized in my mind that there really is a strong east coast-west coast cultural difference, even though SF is a city that is in many ways much more friendly to east-coasters than most west-coast cities.
San Francisco is too small (not meaning this as slam, I swear) to be directly analogous to New York or Philly unless you get down to the neighborhood level. At the neighborhood level, there are a plethora of entertaining comparisons to make, which would be a fun parlour conversation for days and days. We could have a cross-city meetup with panel presentations on which neighborhoods map to which neighborhoods.
There are some Boston similarities overall (the cultural differences and divides between neighborhoods!) but that's not quite "right" as an over comparison either, because the overarching atmosphere is just so different.
Baltimore you'll likely find even more small-town in both good and bad ways than SF.
DC is just entirely another animal. The culture is in many ways so tied to politics that I can't imagine a lifelong San Franciscan finding it independent-minded. I'm not saying that there are not independent-minded people in DC, but overall...well, i don't think you'll like it best.
posted by desuetude at 9:43 PM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, c'mere and move to South Philly. Duh. I've got all that. My neighborhood rocks.
But really, SF is just...really different from the east coast. Not as different as the rest of California, but SF is what crystallized in my mind that there really is a strong east coast-west coast cultural difference, even though SF is a city that is in many ways much more friendly to east-coasters than most west-coast cities.
San Francisco is too small (not meaning this as slam, I swear) to be directly analogous to New York or Philly unless you get down to the neighborhood level. At the neighborhood level, there are a plethora of entertaining comparisons to make, which would be a fun parlour conversation for days and days. We could have a cross-city meetup with panel presentations on which neighborhoods map to which neighborhoods.
There are some Boston similarities overall (the cultural differences and divides between neighborhoods!) but that's not quite "right" as an over comparison either, because the overarching atmosphere is just so different.
Baltimore you'll likely find even more small-town in both good and bad ways than SF.
DC is just entirely another animal. The culture is in many ways so tied to politics that I can't imagine a lifelong San Franciscan finding it independent-minded. I'm not saying that there are not independent-minded people in DC, but overall...well, i don't think you'll like it best.
posted by desuetude at 9:43 PM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, and cost of living...I've gotta put in a plug for Philly as the best kept secret for real estate. New Yorkers, DCers, and Baltimorians all are jealous of what we can get for our money. Coming from San Francisco, though, even NYC is not unreasonable.
posted by desuetude at 9:45 PM on May 4, 2010
posted by desuetude at 9:45 PM on May 4, 2010
Response by poster: Can someone explain the difference between the East Coast and West Coast 'vibe' that so many people mentioned?
posted by LudgerLassen at 12:44 AM on May 5, 2010
posted by LudgerLassen at 12:44 AM on May 5, 2010
Can someone explain the difference between the East Coast and West Coast 'vibe' that so many people mentioned?
Oof. That's pretty tricky. We hashed out some perceived East Coast/West Coast stereotypes here previously.
I think a lot of it comes down to the East Coast being a much older part of the country and thus having cycled through many iterations of codified societal expectations as part of the cultural memory (which were inherited from Europe in the first place before we started working over those traditions.) The things that you see noted as east coast stereotypes like higher class consciousness and greater formality in dress reflect this. Those who went west to settle the West Coast were ditching all that cultural memory on purpose, hence the tradition of California being all laid-back and make-your-own-way.
Then there's the other thing. The directness thing. It seems paradoxical that we would be all in-your-face when we have all this formality and class consciousness and rules and stuff, but it makes a sort of sense in context -- think of it as straightforwardness, not rudeness. Or think of the East Coast as more fundamentally Ask than Guess, culturally, when it comes to any verbal exchange, including with strangers.
The clothes thing...it's all in the nuances. Yes, we do wear a lot more black, and a lot more of us wear suits to work over here. Wear a suit to job interviews. Taking off your shoes in public is a lot less acceptable, and weddings are a notch up in dressiness. Practically speaking, just ask a friend what would be typical dress for [event] if you don't want to feel out of place.
posted by desuetude at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2010
Oof. That's pretty tricky. We hashed out some perceived East Coast/West Coast stereotypes here previously.
I think a lot of it comes down to the East Coast being a much older part of the country and thus having cycled through many iterations of codified societal expectations as part of the cultural memory (which were inherited from Europe in the first place before we started working over those traditions.) The things that you see noted as east coast stereotypes like higher class consciousness and greater formality in dress reflect this. Those who went west to settle the West Coast were ditching all that cultural memory on purpose, hence the tradition of California being all laid-back and make-your-own-way.
Then there's the other thing. The directness thing. It seems paradoxical that we would be all in-your-face when we have all this formality and class consciousness and rules and stuff, but it makes a sort of sense in context -- think of it as straightforwardness, not rudeness. Or think of the East Coast as more fundamentally Ask than Guess, culturally, when it comes to any verbal exchange, including with strangers.
The clothes thing...it's all in the nuances. Yes, we do wear a lot more black, and a lot more of us wear suits to work over here. Wear a suit to job interviews. Taking off your shoes in public is a lot less acceptable, and weddings are a notch up in dressiness. Practically speaking, just ask a friend what would be typical dress for [event] if you don't want to feel out of place.
posted by desuetude at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2010
San Francisco in particular has a culture of universal non-judgementalness you won't find on the East Coast. It's sort of a pathological extension of tolerance to every aspect of life. For many things, that's great and jibes with my feeling that people should generally be left alone to live their lives however they like. However it also means I can't say "long form improvised musical comedy is not a viable art form" without someone saying "I know the show was interminable and not very entertaining, but they're trying so hard, you have to give them credit for that!" It ties in to the directness noted above - What can be perceived as rudeness in NYC and sometimes on the East Coast in general, is often someone trying to give you the most concise response as possible without particularly troubling to mentally vet all your possible reactions. Sort of "You ask me a question, you get my answer, if you don't like it, feel free to ask someone else, but I'm not going to stand here and engage a conversation about it."
posted by mzurer at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2010
posted by mzurer at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2010
Sort of "You ask me a question, you get my answer, if you don't like it, feel free to ask someone else, but I'm not going to stand here and engage a conversation about it."
Yeah, the east coast tends to be more 'male' (You're asking me a question? Here's my answer. Don't like it? You're wrong.) while the west coast tends to be more 'female' (I see, but why do you feel that way?)
Totally sexist blah blah blah, but it usually works if you're trying to get your bearings. (The west coast has more deviations from that simplistic map that the east does, FWIW)
I've little experience with the middle of the country, although from what I hear it's overflowing with milk and honey and people have been sadly exiled from there for crimes that I can only imagine they are too ashamed to mention.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:31 PM on May 5, 2010
Yeah, the east coast tends to be more 'male' (You're asking me a question? Here's my answer. Don't like it? You're wrong.) while the west coast tends to be more 'female' (I see, but why do you feel that way?)
Totally sexist blah blah blah, but it usually works if you're trying to get your bearings. (The west coast has more deviations from that simplistic map that the east does, FWIW)
I've little experience with the middle of the country, although from what I hear it's overflowing with milk and honey and people have been sadly exiled from there for crimes that I can only imagine they are too ashamed to mention.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:31 PM on May 5, 2010
I lived in SF for 8 years, then moved to Boston (2 years), then to NYC (3 years), and just recently back to the Bay Area (Oakland). I have also lived in Providence (4 years), and spent a lot of time in DC (my dad lived there for many years).
In my experience, none of the East Coast cities were anything like the Bay Area (that's why I moved back). Further, I have very few friends who don't have a *very* strong preference for one of these cities over the others.
The cities you listed are all fairly large, so I am sure you will be able to find pockets of any social subgenre you want, but the underlying tone of those cities is so far removed from the Bay Area vibe that I really don't think their comparable. No city on the East Coast is their version of Palo Alto or Burlingame or Sausalito.
And in addition to the attitudes everyone else is mentioning, there's also population density, infrastructure, and cost of living. Road quality, train quality, bus quality, directness and efficiency of transit routes, the number of people on the sidewalk or in line at the grocery store, the amount of garbage in your trees (seriously, even in the nicer neighborhoods of Brooklyn, there was garbage in the trees), and the average cost of a 1 BR apartment or a night on the town -- all of these things have a very serious effect on your quality of life.
To move to the other coast without visiting for a decent amount of time I think would be a colossal mistake. I think an easier route of investigation might be to list the qualities you want in a city, and ask which of those five has the best mix of them.
posted by blapst at 2:56 PM on May 5, 2010
In my experience, none of the East Coast cities were anything like the Bay Area (that's why I moved back). Further, I have very few friends who don't have a *very* strong preference for one of these cities over the others.
The cities you listed are all fairly large, so I am sure you will be able to find pockets of any social subgenre you want, but the underlying tone of those cities is so far removed from the Bay Area vibe that I really don't think their comparable. No city on the East Coast is their version of Palo Alto or Burlingame or Sausalito.
And in addition to the attitudes everyone else is mentioning, there's also population density, infrastructure, and cost of living. Road quality, train quality, bus quality, directness and efficiency of transit routes, the number of people on the sidewalk or in line at the grocery store, the amount of garbage in your trees (seriously, even in the nicer neighborhoods of Brooklyn, there was garbage in the trees), and the average cost of a 1 BR apartment or a night on the town -- all of these things have a very serious effect on your quality of life.
To move to the other coast without visiting for a decent amount of time I think would be a colossal mistake. I think an easier route of investigation might be to list the qualities you want in a city, and ask which of those five has the best mix of them.
posted by blapst at 2:56 PM on May 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
These are, like you said, pretty inexact comparisons.
posted by Damn That Television at 9:11 AM on May 4, 2010