Mama Drama
April 13, 2010 6:34 AM Subscribe
My mom is living with us in a one bedroom apartment now after getting beat up and kicked out on the streets. I am miserable. Solutions?
I have a long history of asking mother related questions. One week ago I got a call that my mom had gotten beat up and was on the streets of San Jose. This was after running away with some guy no one knew and my sister and I not knowing where she was for a while at the beginning of this year.
Since my step dad's death, she has been in several horrible relationships. Pedophiles, ex-cons, druggies. She has moved from place to place, burnt bridges with all of her friends. She had a marriage that lasted 12 days to a pretty decent guy but she didn't like him. If you ask her why she likes the losers she has been with, she will say "I go for looks," "So and so had a HOT body."
She is now residing on my living room floor. I live with my husband in a small, one bedroom apartment. It was either this or she lives on the street with no money, no food, nothing. We live in Seattle, away from all the other family because I sought to escape this madness, but ultimately when faced with the idea of leaving my mom on the streets I couldn't say no.
Now I feel stuck. She is an alcoholic, though not drinking now because I don't allow it. She is addicted to many pills (Xanax, Klonopin, Norco, though they are prescribed to her by her doctor in California). She hasn't had a job in years and only for a few months at that in her entire life. Her personality isn't suited for day to day interaction with people. She possibly has Borderline Personality Syndrome or worse.
I want her gone. I cry every night but recognize part of that is just the selfishness of wanting my peaceful, calm, relaxing life back. She isn't doing anything bad, per se, although she did contact abusive jerk boyfriend again thinking they could have a phone relationship.
Honestly, what can I do? Could you throw someone out on the street with nothing? I feel so incredibly helpless and stressed. I honestly used to thank whatever deity there might be for how wonderful my life was and how much I loved coming home to my husband and relaxing but it has been nothing but a nightmare for us right now.
I have a long history of asking mother related questions. One week ago I got a call that my mom had gotten beat up and was on the streets of San Jose. This was after running away with some guy no one knew and my sister and I not knowing where she was for a while at the beginning of this year.
Since my step dad's death, she has been in several horrible relationships. Pedophiles, ex-cons, druggies. She has moved from place to place, burnt bridges with all of her friends. She had a marriage that lasted 12 days to a pretty decent guy but she didn't like him. If you ask her why she likes the losers she has been with, she will say "I go for looks," "So and so had a HOT body."
She is now residing on my living room floor. I live with my husband in a small, one bedroom apartment. It was either this or she lives on the street with no money, no food, nothing. We live in Seattle, away from all the other family because I sought to escape this madness, but ultimately when faced with the idea of leaving my mom on the streets I couldn't say no.
Now I feel stuck. She is an alcoholic, though not drinking now because I don't allow it. She is addicted to many pills (Xanax, Klonopin, Norco, though they are prescribed to her by her doctor in California). She hasn't had a job in years and only for a few months at that in her entire life. Her personality isn't suited for day to day interaction with people. She possibly has Borderline Personality Syndrome or worse.
I want her gone. I cry every night but recognize part of that is just the selfishness of wanting my peaceful, calm, relaxing life back. She isn't doing anything bad, per se, although she did contact abusive jerk boyfriend again thinking they could have a phone relationship.
Honestly, what can I do? Could you throw someone out on the street with nothing? I feel so incredibly helpless and stressed. I honestly used to thank whatever deity there might be for how wonderful my life was and how much I loved coming home to my husband and relaxing but it has been nothing but a nightmare for us right now.
Put her in touch with the closest women's shelter, try to line up some additional counseling for her, and try to see what her drug/alcohol rehab options are. But it's obvious she can't stay in your apartment. You are an independent adult with a right to seek happiness and to be left alone. Just because she's ruined her life doesn't give you an obligation to ruin yours trying to fix it.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:42 AM on April 13, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:42 AM on April 13, 2010 [7 favorites]
This is a terrible situation...I am sure others will have much better suggestions, but would it alleviate your guilt on getting her out of your apt if you give her some money to get on her feet? Obviously she may spend the $ on alcohol or some other thing other than housing/food, but at that point, that decision is on her, not you.
posted by murrey at 6:45 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by murrey at 6:45 AM on April 13, 2010
I suppose as an American there are certain cultural issues here, but she's family and you are all she has.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:46 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 6:46 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: We have looked into social programs and services and there just doesn't seem to be a plethora of stuff.
I guess I don't know how to just throw her out into the street. Honestly could you look at your mom who is crying and broken and toss her out? I feel like a monster for doing that but part of me wants to. Again she isn't doing anything bad right now per se and says she wants to get her life on track but I don't think she can to be honest.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:47 AM on April 13, 2010
I guess I don't know how to just throw her out into the street. Honestly could you look at your mom who is crying and broken and toss her out? I feel like a monster for doing that but part of me wants to. Again she isn't doing anything bad right now per se and says she wants to get her life on track but I don't think she can to be honest.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:47 AM on April 13, 2010
Adults are responsible for themselves. You have no obligation in a situation like this. Letting her stay with you and continue to use drugs is enabling. Don't do it. Do what you have to do to get her to leave. You can't help someone who doesn't want help. Trust me.
posted by dortmunder at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by dortmunder at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2010
I have seen this type of dynamic many times in my life. While this is your mother, I've seen it where kids act like this toward their parents, or even ex-girlfriends, etc.
Honestly from your post I don't think you can just kick her out and live with yourself, but also you can't allow her to stay indefinitely and ruin your marriage and your happiness. She, as you have described her, is toxic and you need to do what you can but also you can't let her force you to destroy your own life.
You mention your sister--is she willing to help? Is her place bigger, and can mama be shipped to your sister? Obviously that would be the quickest solution to the problem. I'll continue writing assuming that can't happen...
You don't mention what her employment history or options are for your mother. The fact is, in our society no one can live without an income unless they are willing to go to a shelter, etc. Assuming your mother is not so drunk/drugged that she could not even hold down a minimum-wage job, the goal is to get her self-sufficient (and if she IS that drugged/drunk, perhaps there are some inpatient clinics where she could get over her addictions).
I would sit down with her, and be polite but firm in saying she needs a plan, and the most important part of that plan is a timeline. Set dates for milestones towards getting her self-sufficient and out of your apartment, and make sure she understands the punishment for not adhering to this timeline is to be homeless. The dates must be realistic, but aggressive to get her out within, say, 45 days. (I say even that long because finding her an apartment may be difficult depending on her history).
Also, with talking to these boyfriends on the phone, etc. I know that many parents have used the line "you live under my roof you follow my rules" on their children (including my own parents); it's time to reverse that rule. As long as your mother is living rent-free in your apartment, you make the rules. Again, same punishment for non-adherence.
And if she brakes the rules or doesn't take the steps towards becoming self-sufficient, then you have to do something that will be very hard--you need to throw her out. Because otherwise she will continue to leech off of you for as long as you let her, and she will destroy your life as well as your own. This will be a very hard thing for you to do, but if she cannot or will not help herself, then your only other option is to get far away and distance yourself as much as possible. This is what they used to call "tough love", it's not that you don't care about her, it's that it will require her hitting rock bottom and being in that homeless shelter to realize where she is and start taking the required steps to improve her station in life. In the end, she has to help herself.
I wish you luck..it's a hard position to be in.
posted by arniec at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2010 [12 favorites]
Honestly from your post I don't think you can just kick her out and live with yourself, but also you can't allow her to stay indefinitely and ruin your marriage and your happiness. She, as you have described her, is toxic and you need to do what you can but also you can't let her force you to destroy your own life.
You mention your sister--is she willing to help? Is her place bigger, and can mama be shipped to your sister? Obviously that would be the quickest solution to the problem. I'll continue writing assuming that can't happen...
You don't mention what her employment history or options are for your mother. The fact is, in our society no one can live without an income unless they are willing to go to a shelter, etc. Assuming your mother is not so drunk/drugged that she could not even hold down a minimum-wage job, the goal is to get her self-sufficient (and if she IS that drugged/drunk, perhaps there are some inpatient clinics where she could get over her addictions).
I would sit down with her, and be polite but firm in saying she needs a plan, and the most important part of that plan is a timeline. Set dates for milestones towards getting her self-sufficient and out of your apartment, and make sure she understands the punishment for not adhering to this timeline is to be homeless. The dates must be realistic, but aggressive to get her out within, say, 45 days. (I say even that long because finding her an apartment may be difficult depending on her history).
Also, with talking to these boyfriends on the phone, etc. I know that many parents have used the line "you live under my roof you follow my rules" on their children (including my own parents); it's time to reverse that rule. As long as your mother is living rent-free in your apartment, you make the rules. Again, same punishment for non-adherence.
And if she brakes the rules or doesn't take the steps towards becoming self-sufficient, then you have to do something that will be very hard--you need to throw her out. Because otherwise she will continue to leech off of you for as long as you let her, and she will destroy your life as well as your own. This will be a very hard thing for you to do, but if she cannot or will not help herself, then your only other option is to get far away and distance yourself as much as possible. This is what they used to call "tough love", it's not that you don't care about her, it's that it will require her hitting rock bottom and being in that homeless shelter to realize where she is and start taking the required steps to improve her station in life. In the end, she has to help herself.
I wish you luck..it's a hard position to be in.
posted by arniec at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2010 [12 favorites]
How about setting some deadlines for her to get a job and move out? If she doesn't meet those deadlines, you kick her out. Same result, but your conscience may feel cleaner?
posted by murrey at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by murrey at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010
I really believe that are few situations as heartbreaking as this one. I also really believe the following: she is an adult and is making her own decisions no matter how terrible they are or what kind of state of mind she's in when she's making them. The toughest decision is almost always the right one. And finally, one ruined life is enough, don't become involved and let it become two.
I'm so sorry and hope that everything works out for you.
posted by meerkatty at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010
I'm so sorry and hope that everything works out for you.
posted by meerkatty at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010
Here are some quick thoughts. Apologies for being brief, I don't mean to be abrupt.
- You have a terrible situation, you have my sympathies.
- Your mum is manipulating you. Not because she is your mum but because she manipulates people as a way to feel secure, get what she wants, etc.
- Your mum is an alcoholic. Try and get her to AA. Forget about any qualms you may have about AA as a religious organization. Basically, she needs to talk with other non-drinking alcoholics. AA can provide fairly comprehensive support for alcoholics. She may go to meetings many nights a week, which would be good for you guys. btw AA will not stop her being an alcoholic, but it will hopefully help her to be an alcoholic who does not drink. However she will still have all the alcoholic personality issues.
- Your mum is addicted to narcotics. See if there is an NA chapter wher you are.
- You are living with an alcoholic. See if the there is an AL-ANON chapter (for people living with alcoholics) near where you are.
- Your mum is abusing her meds. She needs new psych evaluation and a new doctor. Do you have health insurance that covers her? She needs am MD, a shrink, and a therapist, minimum. Again the therapist will get her out of the house and talking with someone.
This is not just a family issue but a medical/psychiatric emergency involving another human being. You need to try and do as many of these things as possible, in order to then deal with the family issues. It may fail, but you have to try, but this is the way to go forward.
posted by carter at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
- You have a terrible situation, you have my sympathies.
- Your mum is manipulating you. Not because she is your mum but because she manipulates people as a way to feel secure, get what she wants, etc.
- Your mum is an alcoholic. Try and get her to AA. Forget about any qualms you may have about AA as a religious organization. Basically, she needs to talk with other non-drinking alcoholics. AA can provide fairly comprehensive support for alcoholics. She may go to meetings many nights a week, which would be good for you guys. btw AA will not stop her being an alcoholic, but it will hopefully help her to be an alcoholic who does not drink. However she will still have all the alcoholic personality issues.
- Your mum is addicted to narcotics. See if there is an NA chapter wher you are.
- You are living with an alcoholic. See if the there is an AL-ANON chapter (for people living with alcoholics) near where you are.
- Your mum is abusing her meds. She needs new psych evaluation and a new doctor. Do you have health insurance that covers her? She needs am MD, a shrink, and a therapist, minimum. Again the therapist will get her out of the house and talking with someone.
This is not just a family issue but a medical/psychiatric emergency involving another human being. You need to try and do as many of these things as possible, in order to then deal with the family issues. It may fail, but you have to try, but this is the way to go forward.
posted by carter at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Again she isn't doing anything bad right now per se and says she wants to get her life on track but I don't think she can to be honest.
Your mom needs a caseworker (which you are not), and you need to approach the rest of the family and present this as everyone's problem, in terms of coming together and finding her social services--not just yours.
posted by availablelight at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Your mom needs a caseworker (which you are not), and you need to approach the rest of the family and present this as everyone's problem, in terms of coming together and finding her social services--not just yours.
posted by availablelight at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Would you consider attending Al-Anon meetings yourself? It sounds like you could use some support from other people used to dealing with this particular brand of family drama hell.
posted by yersinia at 6:53 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by yersinia at 6:53 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
I probably should have said this instead of what I said above:
No matter what she says, no matter what relatives who are close enough to speak but far enough not to dirty their owns hands gossip, no matter what you were taught, no matter what religion you follow: refusing to participate in your mother's self-destructive reluctance to take responsibility for her own life does not in any way, shape, or form make you a bad person. Period.
Remember that as this gets harder.
posted by jefficator at 6:56 AM on April 13, 2010 [22 favorites]
No matter what she says, no matter what relatives who are close enough to speak but far enough not to dirty their owns hands gossip, no matter what you were taught, no matter what religion you follow: refusing to participate in your mother's self-destructive reluctance to take responsibility for her own life does not in any way, shape, or form make you a bad person. Period.
Remember that as this gets harder.
posted by jefficator at 6:56 AM on April 13, 2010 [22 favorites]
Sorry for the typos above.
IMHO:
- Do not give her money. She will continue to do what she wants to do and ignore you. She is manipulating you to get what she wants.
- Do not tell her to make a plan. She has not made plans her whole life, she will not make them now.
- Do not tell her to sort her life out, she does not know how to do this. Ditto re making deadlines.
There's a ton of self-help books out there on interventions, I have not read any of them, but they may be useful. My point is that she needs an intervention, so if you feel you want to provide this, you should do so in the best way possible.
Best of luck.
posted by carter at 6:57 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
IMHO:
- Do not give her money. She will continue to do what she wants to do and ignore you. She is manipulating you to get what she wants.
- Do not tell her to make a plan. She has not made plans her whole life, she will not make them now.
- Do not tell her to sort her life out, she does not know how to do this. Ditto re making deadlines.
There's a ton of self-help books out there on interventions, I have not read any of them, but they may be useful. My point is that she needs an intervention, so if you feel you want to provide this, you should do so in the best way possible.
Best of luck.
posted by carter at 6:57 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Contact the Office of Housing and explain to them that your mother is a homeless alcoholic drug addict with co-occurring mental health issues and ask them about getting her into a housing first program. Unfortunately, if Seattle is like Philadelphia she won't qualify for homeless services if she continues living with you because she will not be considered homeless unless she is actually utilizing the homeless services system, i.e., residing in shelter. It's an awkward situation to be in, recommending that someone who has tenuous temporary housing to give up that housing in the hopes of obtaining permanent housing but that's at least how it goes here. Beyond obtaining housing, your mother would likely benefit from a stay in either residential treatment for her co-occurring substance abuse and mental health disorders and regular contact after this residential treatment with an outpatient treatment program to insure the maintenance of her mental health. I can and will assist you in locating and accessing these services if your mother is interested in pursuing them. Ask her if she's willing to go into treatment. If she says yes, drop me a line. If not, housing first is likely your only option for permanent housing because other programs will require her to be sober and med and treatment compliant. Your other options are directing her to the shelter system and hoping for the best for her life on the streets. Or, you can continue to let her stay with you in ad-hoc housing, ruining your marriage and basically making your life miserable. The choice is yours, and while I understand these are hard choices to make and none of them are likely to work out perfectly I would least recommend that you take the latter path.
Good luck.
posted by The Straightener at 7:03 AM on April 13, 2010 [25 favorites]
Good luck.
posted by The Straightener at 7:03 AM on April 13, 2010 [25 favorites]
Strongly nthing that you get yourself to an Al-Anon meeting. You can take what you need from it and leave the rest behind, including the higher power thing (but if you're open to it, you can use the group itself as your higher power, because collectively they know more than you do alone). But whatever, what a lot of people really get out of it is that they go to a place with a bunch of people who get it, who understand the "family disease" (though I prefer "disorder") aspect of alcoholism. There you can hear how others handled similar situations and what worked and what didn't. It probably will feel awkward at first but you have to remember that you're walking into a place where everyone's got the same types of issues, and that the connection will be instant.
I'm not the family member, I'm the recovering alcoholic/addict-- if you want to chat more PM me.
posted by mireille at 7:09 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm not the family member, I'm the recovering alcoholic/addict-- if you want to chat more PM me.
posted by mireille at 7:09 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
How long before she starts selling your stuff to buy drugs and alcohol?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:13 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by KokuRyu at 7:13 AM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Sorry, more typos. Above, the two "Do not tell her ..." statements should be "Do not just tell her ..." She can turn her life around, but not without support, and not just on the basis of "Do this" advice.
posted by carter at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by carter at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2010
Please just remember, rainygrl716, that most of the people here telling you to look out for number one are Americans, and are looking through that individualist / narcissist lens.
This is the person who gave you life, and sacrificed so that you could be the person you are. Keep that in mind, and remember that she has also suffered for you. Letting her stay in your home, despite the hardship, is the right and good thing to do.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:26 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is the person who gave you life, and sacrificed so that you could be the person you are. Keep that in mind, and remember that she has also suffered for you. Letting her stay in your home, despite the hardship, is the right and good thing to do.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:26 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
You are responsible to yourself (and your husband) first. In a lot of ways, any emotional involvement with a non-recovering addict is like being chained to a rock while you are in the ocean. If you do not want to drown, you have to cut yourself lose and let the rock sink on its own. You cannot save or even help anyone, ever. You can help people who are trying to help themselves, but you need to be very careful and protect yourself first, last, and always. It may feel like you are biting off your own foot to get out of the shackle that attaches you to that rock, but, if that's what it takes, that's what you need to do. Assuming you don't want to drown. Because addicts will always chose their addiction over you; that is pretty much the definition.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:35 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:35 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but Meatbomb is basically telling you to allow the life you've worked hard to build to be destroyed by someone who doesn't care for anything at this point but her addictions.
That's not okay. You are not, as jefficator says above, a bad person for taking care of yourself.
Decide what you will do to help your mom. She needs to get services, she needs to go to AA or some other support group for alcoholics, she needs to get off the drugs. She needs to agree to allow you to help her do these things.
There must be rules for living in your home. She cannot call, invite, or associate with people who have abused her in the past, drug dealers (if she has found them), anyone who will enable her.
Not sure what there is to be done about the housing, but look into it and do what you can to make it happen.
If she chooses to sabotage these efforts after agreeing to let you help her, then she's made her choice. But it's not about YOU - it's about her - and her choices. You cannot be responsible for her if all she's going to do is destroy everything in your life. Some people are, apparently, built up on the inside to deal with this stuff, and others are not. There is no shame in not being the kind of person who can deal with this.
Good luck.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:37 AM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
That's not okay. You are not, as jefficator says above, a bad person for taking care of yourself.
Decide what you will do to help your mom. She needs to get services, she needs to go to AA or some other support group for alcoholics, she needs to get off the drugs. She needs to agree to allow you to help her do these things.
There must be rules for living in your home. She cannot call, invite, or associate with people who have abused her in the past, drug dealers (if she has found them), anyone who will enable her.
Not sure what there is to be done about the housing, but look into it and do what you can to make it happen.
If she chooses to sabotage these efforts after agreeing to let you help her, then she's made her choice. But it's not about YOU - it's about her - and her choices. You cannot be responsible for her if all she's going to do is destroy everything in your life. Some people are, apparently, built up on the inside to deal with this stuff, and others are not. There is no shame in not being the kind of person who can deal with this.
Good luck.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:37 AM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
I was friends with a person who was heavily addicted to drugs for many years. I tried to help him several times, and it was a rollercoaster of quitting and starting back up. I was young and had no idea what to do. When it finally started going further and further downhill, being his friend was too much stress, I didn't like him anymore, he brought me down and I felt his toxicity was keeping me from being the healthy person I was working hard to be. He was emotionally abusive, unreliable, confusing, illogical, and just depressing.
I finally decided to cut him off from me even though I was his only friend, the one who had "always been there for him." He was a very manipulative person and said some horrible things to me that really hurt (he knew my weaknesses and preyed on every one). He tried the angry abusive game, the sad pathetic game, the "I'm totally reasonable" game. Most of all he told me how selfish I was. It was horrible. Although at the time I worried if I was just being selfish, somehow I knew it wasn't true. Now that he's been through recovery (and clean for over 2 years), he's thanked me for doing what I did.
By staying his friend, I had been telling him that it's OK to do what he's doing. To be crazy and horrible, to have no self-respect, that somehow he deserved my companionship simply by virtue of the fact that he and I were once friends, without putting any effort into the relationship, that he could simply be destructive, horrible, and selfish and I would just sit there and patiently wait.
No good can come out of you babysitting your mother. She cannot be reasoned with, she will not make or stick to a plan, she needs serious help that you cannot provide. You are not helping her by letting her stay there, it is hurting you both. Asking her to leave may end up being the best thing you can do for her.
Don't feel like you owe her anything, you don't have to be involved with her if it's not right for you. Trust your gut (and NOT your guilt-factory...that's something that she likely programmed into you).
posted by hannahelastic at 7:44 AM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]
I finally decided to cut him off from me even though I was his only friend, the one who had "always been there for him." He was a very manipulative person and said some horrible things to me that really hurt (he knew my weaknesses and preyed on every one). He tried the angry abusive game, the sad pathetic game, the "I'm totally reasonable" game. Most of all he told me how selfish I was. It was horrible. Although at the time I worried if I was just being selfish, somehow I knew it wasn't true. Now that he's been through recovery (and clean for over 2 years), he's thanked me for doing what I did.
By staying his friend, I had been telling him that it's OK to do what he's doing. To be crazy and horrible, to have no self-respect, that somehow he deserved my companionship simply by virtue of the fact that he and I were once friends, without putting any effort into the relationship, that he could simply be destructive, horrible, and selfish and I would just sit there and patiently wait.
No good can come out of you babysitting your mother. She cannot be reasoned with, she will not make or stick to a plan, she needs serious help that you cannot provide. You are not helping her by letting her stay there, it is hurting you both. Asking her to leave may end up being the best thing you can do for her.
Don't feel like you owe her anything, you don't have to be involved with her if it's not right for you. Trust your gut (and NOT your guilt-factory...that's something that she likely programmed into you).
posted by hannahelastic at 7:44 AM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]
You might have thought of this already, but make sure that important, valuable things - credit cards, large bills, passports, iPods, other electronics, guns, medications - are not obvious and are out of reach. I would not trust your mother not to go through your things and either use your cards or sell your stuff for money. Give them to a good friend for safekeeping temporarily. It may give you some peace of mind.
Please be firm with your mother. This could go on forever if you don't do anything.
posted by amicamentis at 7:45 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Please be firm with your mother. This could go on forever if you don't do anything.
posted by amicamentis at 7:45 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Her hanging with men who are pediphiles, criminals, etc. concerns me for your safety. Please tell me you don't have children in the house.
Yes she is your mother and unstable. But she needs to get into some shelter or be committed. Her CA doctor prescribing all of those meds is criminal. She needs proper mental treatment and I don't think a shelter is the right choice. She needs therapy, proper meds, controlled environment, skills to deal with life and some type of followup monitoring to make sure she is coping/staying on proper meds.
I'm so sorry but she needs to get out of your life stat. She is putting your safety and mental health in danger. Get some therapy yourself too. This is incredibly hard on you (guilt, etc).
posted by stormpooper at 7:50 AM on April 13, 2010
Yes she is your mother and unstable. But she needs to get into some shelter or be committed. Her CA doctor prescribing all of those meds is criminal. She needs proper mental treatment and I don't think a shelter is the right choice. She needs therapy, proper meds, controlled environment, skills to deal with life and some type of followup monitoring to make sure she is coping/staying on proper meds.
I'm so sorry but she needs to get out of your life stat. She is putting your safety and mental health in danger. Get some therapy yourself too. This is incredibly hard on you (guilt, etc).
posted by stormpooper at 7:50 AM on April 13, 2010
Everything else aside, I would make sure that your credit cards and financial records are stored in a way that your mom and her boyfriends can't access. This may sound heartless, but it's a simple step that you should take to protect yourself and your mom from some horrible consequences.
Good luck with this. It's a very difficult situation.
posted by alms at 7:55 AM on April 13, 2010
Good luck with this. It's a very difficult situation.
posted by alms at 7:55 AM on April 13, 2010
Yes she is your mother and unstable. But she needs to get into some shelter or be committed.
Involuntary commitments aren't something you do to someone who is engaging in behavior you don't like, or is making your life difficult, even if they are engaging in behavior you don't like or are making your life difficult because of the symptoms of their mental health disorder. Involuntary commitments are observation stays in psychiatric facilities for people who are either suicidal or homicidal and are an immediate threat to themselves or other people. Please do not ever recommend that someone commit a family member on AskMe unless the poster actually asks, "My mother is saying she is going to kill herself and is refusing to go with me to the emergency room, what do I do?" And even then I don't know that I would make such a recommendation without knowing a host of other details. Involuntary commitment stays are tantamount to incarceration and you should never rush to take a person's freedom away without knowing with as close to 100% certainty as possible that it is absolutely necessary to do so.
posted by The Straightener at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2010 [14 favorites]
Involuntary commitments aren't something you do to someone who is engaging in behavior you don't like, or is making your life difficult, even if they are engaging in behavior you don't like or are making your life difficult because of the symptoms of their mental health disorder. Involuntary commitments are observation stays in psychiatric facilities for people who are either suicidal or homicidal and are an immediate threat to themselves or other people. Please do not ever recommend that someone commit a family member on AskMe unless the poster actually asks, "My mother is saying she is going to kill herself and is refusing to go with me to the emergency room, what do I do?" And even then I don't know that I would make such a recommendation without knowing a host of other details. Involuntary commitment stays are tantamount to incarceration and you should never rush to take a person's freedom away without knowing with as close to 100% certainty as possible that it is absolutely necessary to do so.
posted by The Straightener at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2010 [14 favorites]
Hoo boy, OP, you are in an awful spot. You are in my thoughts. I know it's easy to say "kick her out on the street" but it's really hard when it's your MOM. I'm American and as individualistic as they come, and I'd really be struggling with this too.
The problem is, if Mom is under 55 and has no minor children in her custody (I assume that's the case for the OP) there is precious little out there in terms of social services. Still, there might be a county or city/local service worker who can help point you in the direction of housing, food stamps, and so on.
Can you, your sister, and other members of the family get together to help solve this problem and maybe chip in with expenses/finding a place to live/problem-solving? It's not fair that this situation is placed in your lap for you alone to solve. She's your sister's mom, too.
You might try contacting your local chapter of NAMI, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. They are a godsend for the friends and family of those with mental illness.
Good luck, and please let us know how things turn out for you.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:09 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
The problem is, if Mom is under 55 and has no minor children in her custody (I assume that's the case for the OP) there is precious little out there in terms of social services. Still, there might be a county or city/local service worker who can help point you in the direction of housing, food stamps, and so on.
Can you, your sister, and other members of the family get together to help solve this problem and maybe chip in with expenses/finding a place to live/problem-solving? It's not fair that this situation is placed in your lap for you alone to solve. She's your sister's mom, too.
You might try contacting your local chapter of NAMI, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. They are a godsend for the friends and family of those with mental illness.
Good luck, and please let us know how things turn out for you.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:09 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is the person who gave you life, and sacrificed so that you could be the person you are. Keep that in mind, and remember that she has also suffered for you.
So your point of view is that we should basically be our parents' slaves? Its not like we had a choice in being born but that simple act of creating us should leave us indebted to them forever? Not matter what they do?
I'm grateful to my parents for raising me and supporting me but I have good parents who aren't insane alcoholics/drug addicts. I'd do anything I could to help my parents but I also know that my parents would never ask me to sacrifice my own well-being to help them (I know this for a fact - my parents are going through financial troubles at the moment and they wont even let me give them 'rent' for looking after my pets).
OP, you're a good person for wanting to help your mum but it can't come at the cost of your sanity. You cannot let your mum's craziness ruin your life too.
The first thing you need to do is find alternate living arrangements for her - you cannot realistically wait until she gets a job that pays enough for her to be independent - that could take months, if ever. A 40+ woman with little job experience, personality issues,drug and alcohol dependencies is going to really struggle getting and keeping a job.
Remember this from one of your previous questions:
I moved out of my house when I was 18. I had asked to move back home at one point because I was sick but my mom basically said no
When you were in need, your mum turned you away. You've already gone above and beyond what she was willing to do for you.
You are not a monster for kicking your mum out. It sounds very much like she is incapable of looking after herself and needs to be under the care of professionals. Its good you want to help her but you really aren't qualified. It would be enough of a strain for most people to have a 'normal', stable mother sleeping in the living room of their apartment for an indefinite period of time, let alone someone who has as many problems as your mum.
posted by missmagenta at 8:19 AM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]
This is the person who gave you life, and sacrificed so that you could be the person you are. Keep that in mind, and remember that she has also suffered for you. Letting her stay in your home, despite the hardship, is the right and good thing to do.
Meatbomb, how can you possibly know any of that? Have you read the OP's other posts about her mother? It seems like the only one not doing any sacrificing is her mother. When it is enough? When her mother steals her stuff to sell to feed her addictions? When her marriage fails? Will it still be the right and good thing to do?
posted by crankylex at 8:21 AM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
Meatbomb, how can you possibly know any of that? Have you read the OP's other posts about her mother? It seems like the only one not doing any sacrificing is her mother. When it is enough? When her mother steals her stuff to sell to feed her addictions? When her marriage fails? Will it still be the right and good thing to do?
posted by crankylex at 8:21 AM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
Meatbomb, your sentiments are honorable, but I think you're setting up a false dichotomy. Doing the 'good and right thing=taking care of your mother' is a good sentiment. But the question is what does it mean to take care of one's loved ones?
Sometimes it means doing the heartbreaking thing. I think with addiction, the easiest thing of all is to let the mother say and pay for her drinks, but no one would argue that that is the good or right thing to do. The mom has to want to help herself, has to take steps to save her life, has to be held accountable. If she doesn't, but just wants to live on her daughter's floor, then I think the daughter is actually doing a disservice letting the mom stay.
In the long term (over a week), the good and right thing to do is not the thing that is easy. It's the thing that gives her mother the best hope of seeking recovery. Letting her mom stay if her mother does not take steps to help herself means that the OP is making the easy choice - allowing her guilt to remove her mother from responsibility to herself and her family. It's not even about 'I'm a bad daughter for wanting my mom - my mom! - out of the house" - it's that letting the mother stay (without requirements, etc) is probably even worse for the mother, who spends another day not being held accountable, not seeking help, not living. In that case, all the OP isn't a good daughter. She's just a witness to her mother's destruction.
That's not what being a good daughter is about.
Good luck OP. There are reasons that there are groups out there like Al-Anon. I hope you can surround yourself with a community that can support you during this difficult time.
posted by anitanita at 8:41 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it means doing the heartbreaking thing. I think with addiction, the easiest thing of all is to let the mother say and pay for her drinks, but no one would argue that that is the good or right thing to do. The mom has to want to help herself, has to take steps to save her life, has to be held accountable. If she doesn't, but just wants to live on her daughter's floor, then I think the daughter is actually doing a disservice letting the mom stay.
In the long term (over a week), the good and right thing to do is not the thing that is easy. It's the thing that gives her mother the best hope of seeking recovery. Letting her mom stay if her mother does not take steps to help herself means that the OP is making the easy choice - allowing her guilt to remove her mother from responsibility to herself and her family. It's not even about 'I'm a bad daughter for wanting my mom - my mom! - out of the house" - it's that letting the mother stay (without requirements, etc) is probably even worse for the mother, who spends another day not being held accountable, not seeking help, not living. In that case, all the OP isn't a good daughter. She's just a witness to her mother's destruction.
That's not what being a good daughter is about.
Good luck OP. There are reasons that there are groups out there like Al-Anon. I hope you can surround yourself with a community that can support you during this difficult time.
posted by anitanita at 8:41 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your mom clearly has a chemical imbalance. She is sick. You wouldn't turn her away if she was suffering from diabetes and insulin cost her so much money that her boyfriend got pissed off, kicked her on the street and left her with nothing. I know that accepting a mental illness is the most trying thing to accept, because it directly affects YOU much more than an illness of a different organ/body system. But it is what your mom has - clearly a doctor thinks so or she wouldn't have that list of medication.
As for whether you are patient enough to accept having to deal with it when it is right in your face and she has hurt you is a different matter entirely. I wouldn't judge you for not being able to deal with it. But if it was me personally I would do my best to try to deal, because as someone mentioned above, she is your mother. Nothing can change that fact, alas.
posted by sickinthehead at 8:49 AM on April 13, 2010
As for whether you are patient enough to accept having to deal with it when it is right in your face and she has hurt you is a different matter entirely. I wouldn't judge you for not being able to deal with it. But if it was me personally I would do my best to try to deal, because as someone mentioned above, she is your mother. Nothing can change that fact, alas.
posted by sickinthehead at 8:49 AM on April 13, 2010
You might find help for her via the Seattle Crisis Resource Directory.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:58 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by Jacqueline at 8:58 AM on April 13, 2010
False dichotomy, Meatbomb. You're suggesting the OP take on a responsibility that she is not equipped to deal with logistically (one-room apartment), financially, or emotionally.
Maybe in another culture the OP would be prepared to deal with this scenario, but North American culture does not prepare us to deal with it.
The end result is that the mother's life will remain the same, and the daughter's life will be destroyed.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:10 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Maybe in another culture the OP would be prepared to deal with this scenario, but North American culture does not prepare us to deal with it.
The end result is that the mother's life will remain the same, and the daughter's life will be destroyed.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:10 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
On preview, lot's of good advice here. I would suggest that you listen closely to what arniec says, as it has the force of logic and addresses your need/desire to try and help get your mom on the right path. However, having an alcoholic step-son, I also recognize that whatever you do may not work, so you also need to internalize what hannahelastic has to say. For your own sanity you need to try - but you also have to establish limits based on your mom's compliance & behavior. It's those limits that will be hard to stick to - but you will have to, now or later. When is up to you - how much are you willing to take?.
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:14 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:14 AM on April 13, 2010
Meatbomb is grinding a personal axe here. OP, whatever you do, it won't make you a bad person. Institutions are there for you take advantage of, should you need them. Don't let anybody shame you into feeling otherwise, because they've never been in your shoes.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:15 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:15 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Here's why you don't feel guilty about whatever action you have to take:
The end result is that the mother's life will remain the same, and the daughter's life will be destroyed. - posted upthread by KokoRyu
The absolute bitch about alcoholism and drug addiction is that it's almost never the addict that suffers the most - it's the people around them. And her addictions are near the center of all of this. I recently gave up on an alcoholic parent; it was a very tough decision to make, but I realized that as much as I'd already done, they simply weren't going to get actual help, and the only thing I'd be doing in the future is waiting for phone calls and bouncing from crisis to crisis, from ER visit to ER visit, and moving their stuff yet again out of their place while they recouped in a facility. I realized that it was destroying me and that all I was doing was picking them up so they could do it again. (To be fair, this one does have some money thanks to Social Security, but could easily be homeless at any time.)
First and foremost - you have not done anything wrong, and you have nothing to feel guilty about. That being said, you need to get help. Not because there's something wrong with you, but because this is already affecting you in very bad ways. When you say that you feel selfish for wanting your good life back, then her choices in life are starting to destroy you. She has done this to herself and she's going to drag down anyone else she has to if it means avoiding dealing with the consequences. You have done nothing to deserve feeling so bad that you're crying at night. Maybe help will be Al-Anon, or a therapist. But you need to be able to realize that you don't have to pay for others' sins with the happiness of your family.
The trickiest part is going to be getting yourself extricated from the immediate situation. While I really do understand the "just throw her out" way of thinking, it just isn't that easy. I don't claim to have the answers here, because I don't know the resources in your area or how receptive your mother is to getting help. I would start by checking into the mental health networks in the area, as a start. (You can also try calling homeless shelters, explaining that you're not trying to place anyone, but you just want to know where you would start looking for mental health for someone with no money. They deal with those situations all the time and know the contacts in town.) Eventually, there is going to be the need for what will probably be a very uncomfortable talk with mom about her addictions, that she needs to face up to them, and that she can't live with you forever. If you set her up with help, and she fails, it is not your fault. But until she gets actual help and commits to living clean and making an honest effort to truly be her own person, this cycle will continue ad nauseum, trust me. These are areas in which a therapist can really help you manage things.
You love your mother and that's obvious. But you also love your husband, enough to get up in front of people and say that you will stay with him for life. If she's going to destroy herself, that sucks, but don't let her take you and the life you've built down in the process.
posted by azpenguin at 9:28 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
The end result is that the mother's life will remain the same, and the daughter's life will be destroyed. - posted upthread by KokoRyu
The absolute bitch about alcoholism and drug addiction is that it's almost never the addict that suffers the most - it's the people around them. And her addictions are near the center of all of this. I recently gave up on an alcoholic parent; it was a very tough decision to make, but I realized that as much as I'd already done, they simply weren't going to get actual help, and the only thing I'd be doing in the future is waiting for phone calls and bouncing from crisis to crisis, from ER visit to ER visit, and moving their stuff yet again out of their place while they recouped in a facility. I realized that it was destroying me and that all I was doing was picking them up so they could do it again. (To be fair, this one does have some money thanks to Social Security, but could easily be homeless at any time.)
First and foremost - you have not done anything wrong, and you have nothing to feel guilty about. That being said, you need to get help. Not because there's something wrong with you, but because this is already affecting you in very bad ways. When you say that you feel selfish for wanting your good life back, then her choices in life are starting to destroy you. She has done this to herself and she's going to drag down anyone else she has to if it means avoiding dealing with the consequences. You have done nothing to deserve feeling so bad that you're crying at night. Maybe help will be Al-Anon, or a therapist. But you need to be able to realize that you don't have to pay for others' sins with the happiness of your family.
The trickiest part is going to be getting yourself extricated from the immediate situation. While I really do understand the "just throw her out" way of thinking, it just isn't that easy. I don't claim to have the answers here, because I don't know the resources in your area or how receptive your mother is to getting help. I would start by checking into the mental health networks in the area, as a start. (You can also try calling homeless shelters, explaining that you're not trying to place anyone, but you just want to know where you would start looking for mental health for someone with no money. They deal with those situations all the time and know the contacts in town.) Eventually, there is going to be the need for what will probably be a very uncomfortable talk with mom about her addictions, that she needs to face up to them, and that she can't live with you forever. If you set her up with help, and she fails, it is not your fault. But until she gets actual help and commits to living clean and making an honest effort to truly be her own person, this cycle will continue ad nauseum, trust me. These are areas in which a therapist can really help you manage things.
You love your mother and that's obvious. But you also love your husband, enough to get up in front of people and say that you will stay with him for life. If she's going to destroy herself, that sucks, but don't let her take you and the life you've built down in the process.
posted by azpenguin at 9:28 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Actually, sickinthehead, a reputable head-doc probably wouldn't prescribe xanax AND klonopin AND norco. There are plenty of ways to get those prescriptions without actually being treated by a doctor.
OP, I want you to know that Meatbomb is wrong. You are not a bad person if you can't shoulder all the responsibility for your mother. From what you have posted previously about your mom it's pretty clear that she's got a world of problems that you just can't fix, and it's not your job to fix them. Please ignore the people here trying to make you feel guilty, with the "but she's your mom!!11!! Nothing will change that!!1! HURF DURF FILIAL DUTIES!!" These people probably have normal parents who do not try to hurt their children. These people do not understand how lucky they are. Ignore them.
I don't have any solid advice about what to do for your mom. All I can tell you is that you need to protect yourself and your sanity, and to hell with anyone who tries to shame you. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by palomar at 9:35 AM on April 13, 2010
OP, I want you to know that Meatbomb is wrong. You are not a bad person if you can't shoulder all the responsibility for your mother. From what you have posted previously about your mom it's pretty clear that she's got a world of problems that you just can't fix, and it's not your job to fix them. Please ignore the people here trying to make you feel guilty, with the "but she's your mom!!11!! Nothing will change that!!1! HURF DURF FILIAL DUTIES!!" These people probably have normal parents who do not try to hurt their children. These people do not understand how lucky they are. Ignore them.
I don't have any solid advice about what to do for your mom. All I can tell you is that you need to protect yourself and your sanity, and to hell with anyone who tries to shame you. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by palomar at 9:35 AM on April 13, 2010
I agree with those who said to give her a timeline for finding a job and supporting herself. But I don't think you and your husband can stand having her at your place for even, say, 6 weeks. And you say there aren't any social services you've found that can help her. So maybe you and your sister and any other family members could chip in and get her a room by the week.
The last time I helped out a homeless person I was friends with, I was able to fine him a cheap and skeevy but liveable room that was rented out by the week, toilet and shower down the hall. It was basically a flop-house but better than living on the street. I paid the rent for him for a certain number of weeks and then after that he knew he would be on his own. In that time he managed to find a job as a dishwasher and kept the room.
You're in a horrible situation and I really feel for you. Best of luck to you.
posted by hazyjane at 9:38 AM on April 13, 2010
The last time I helped out a homeless person I was friends with, I was able to fine him a cheap and skeevy but liveable room that was rented out by the week, toilet and shower down the hall. It was basically a flop-house but better than living on the street. I paid the rent for him for a certain number of weeks and then after that he knew he would be on his own. In that time he managed to find a job as a dishwasher and kept the room.
You're in a horrible situation and I really feel for you. Best of luck to you.
posted by hazyjane at 9:38 AM on April 13, 2010
Had a similar situation in my family, and I have to say that to some extent, I agree with meatbomb that you can't just abandon your mother. This has nothing to do with how you would treat a stranger in your house, or how she treated you in the past, and everything to do with how you decide to treat your mother, in this situation, right now. It's easy to tell a stranger that they shouldn't feel responsible for a family member who is taking advantage of kindness, but that's cold comfort when, worst case scenario, a member of your family dies and you know that you could have done more to help them. Been there. Don't recommend it.
My 2c, similar to arniec: this is your house, and your mother is staying with you, so she lives by the rules that you set. If she stays, she goes to therapy, she helps maintain the apartment, she applies for jobs that her therapist thinks that she can do. She gets off of the pills that aren't medically necessary with the help of a doctor.
This is a terrible situation to be in, both for your mother and for you. If she is totally unwilling to do anything to help herself, know that there is nothing that you can do to make her want to change. If she's willing to take small steps towards pulling her life together, then you may be able to help her. As long as it doesn't do damage to your marriage or your health, do what can be done.
posted by _cave at 9:41 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
My 2c, similar to arniec: this is your house, and your mother is staying with you, so she lives by the rules that you set. If she stays, she goes to therapy, she helps maintain the apartment, she applies for jobs that her therapist thinks that she can do. She gets off of the pills that aren't medically necessary with the help of a doctor.
This is a terrible situation to be in, both for your mother and for you. If she is totally unwilling to do anything to help herself, know that there is nothing that you can do to make her want to change. If she's willing to take small steps towards pulling her life together, then you may be able to help her. As long as it doesn't do damage to your marriage or your health, do what can be done.
posted by _cave at 9:41 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your mom has problems that are beyond your ability to resolve. Alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, abusive relationships - these are all problems that are difficult to resolve even with professional intervention. Your mother would need to be extremely motivated to make and sustain changes. You can help her contact the available assistance agencies. You can't make her want to change. Even if she wants to make changes and tries very hard to be self-sufficient, she may not be successful.
One thing I suggest is to sit down with your husband and discuss what you are willing to accept as a couple. Have this conversation somewhere neutral - the park or a coffee shop. Make decisions together. How long can she stay? How much can you afford to contribute to her care? What are the parameters that she cannot cross?
Having your partner involved in the decision making is important. You'll feel more supported and confident in your decisions. You'll feel less guilty for Mom showing up and disrupting your marriage. Also, it's a breeze for your Mom to manipulate you. It'll be much tougher to manipulate two people - one of whom is not her child.
Meatbomb - perhaps you can find somewhere else to grind your Americans are all narcissists axe? Not at all helpful here.
posted by 26.2 at 9:52 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
One thing I suggest is to sit down with your husband and discuss what you are willing to accept as a couple. Have this conversation somewhere neutral - the park or a coffee shop. Make decisions together. How long can she stay? How much can you afford to contribute to her care? What are the parameters that she cannot cross?
Having your partner involved in the decision making is important. You'll feel more supported and confident in your decisions. You'll feel less guilty for Mom showing up and disrupting your marriage. Also, it's a breeze for your Mom to manipulate you. It'll be much tougher to manipulate two people - one of whom is not her child.
Meatbomb - perhaps you can find somewhere else to grind your Americans are all narcissists axe? Not at all helpful here.
posted by 26.2 at 9:52 AM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
The best (and really only) good advice here is from The Straightener. Do what he says and take him up on his offer of help.
re: your responsibility to your mother. It doesn't really matter what any of us say. You hear a lot here on AskMe that "there is no wrong way to feel" and that is true in this situation as well. If you feel that its your responsibility to do whatever you can to help her, then do that. But also recognize that there are some people in your life - including family members - who cannot be helped because they do not want to be helped.
So, in short: Get in touch with The Straightener, do what he suggests, and find a local AL-ANON chapter as a support group to help you deal with the emotions you're experiencing.
posted by anastasiav at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
re: your responsibility to your mother. It doesn't really matter what any of us say. You hear a lot here on AskMe that "there is no wrong way to feel" and that is true in this situation as well. If you feel that its your responsibility to do whatever you can to help her, then do that. But also recognize that there are some people in your life - including family members - who cannot be helped because they do not want to be helped.
So, in short: Get in touch with The Straightener, do what he suggests, and find a local AL-ANON chapter as a support group to help you deal with the emotions you're experiencing.
posted by anastasiav at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wanted to add to the poster(s) above who told you to hide your valuables and credit cards. You may also want to make sure she does not have access to credit card offers either, since I recently learned that bad mothers are also capable of identity theft of their children's credit.
posted by murrey at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2010
posted by murrey at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2010
Honestly could you look at your mom who is crying and broken and toss her out?
In this situation? YES a thousand times YES
posted by French Fry at 10:25 AM on April 13, 2010
In this situation? YES a thousand times YES
posted by French Fry at 10:25 AM on April 13, 2010
arniec: she needs a plan, and the most important part of that plan is a timeline.
This. This is what you do. arniec has it.
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:49 AM on April 13, 2010
This. This is what you do. arniec has it.
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:49 AM on April 13, 2010
Please know that Meatbomb is wrong - enabling an addict is not the loving, "right" thing to do. Please follow the Straightener's advice.
posted by Pax at 10:56 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pax at 10:56 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Honestly could you look at your mom who is crying and broken and toss her out?
Well, my mother was a saint who died way too young and I miss her and my father (who died in the same accident) dearly, every day. But I have cut off a brother who is an alcoholic and has been a chronic user of people since an early age.
Get yourself to Al-Anon, as many meetings as you can manage to make, and your husband may want to try them as well since he's involved in your mama drama too. It would be the best thing that you could do for your mom in the long run. Trust me on this, please.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:58 AM on April 13, 2010
Well, my mother was a saint who died way too young and I miss her and my father (who died in the same accident) dearly, every day. But I have cut off a brother who is an alcoholic and has been a chronic user of people since an early age.
Get yourself to Al-Anon, as many meetings as you can manage to make, and your husband may want to try them as well since he's involved in your mama drama too. It would be the best thing that you could do for your mom in the long run. Trust me on this, please.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:58 AM on April 13, 2010
In the short term, one idea would be to tell her she has to leave the house by a certain time in the morning and come back to sleep by a certain time at night. If she's not back whatever time you think is reasonable, then she can't stay the night. If she comes in drunk, then she also can't spend the night.
I've never been in this situation, but even though the rational part of my brain would say to kick her out, I am not sure if I would have the heart to do it.
You can encourage her to go to AA meetings or apply for jobs or take classes during the day/evening when she's not at your apartment. This way, you and your SO can have time to yourselves, but you won't have to feel like you're kicking your mom out.
posted by parakeetdog at 11:17 AM on April 13, 2010
I've never been in this situation, but even though the rational part of my brain would say to kick her out, I am not sure if I would have the heart to do it.
You can encourage her to go to AA meetings or apply for jobs or take classes during the day/evening when she's not at your apartment. This way, you and your SO can have time to yourselves, but you won't have to feel like you're kicking your mom out.
posted by parakeetdog at 11:17 AM on April 13, 2010
My 2c, similar to arniec: this is your house, and your mother is staying with you, so she lives by the rules that you set. If she stays, she goes to therapy, she helps maintain the apartment, she applies for jobs that her therapist thinks that she can do. She gets off of the pills that aren't medically necessary with the help of a doctor.
And if her mother doesn't follow those rules (and she probably won't), then what? What's her incentive, if she knows that the OP will allow her to stay regardless?
OP, allowing your mother to stay perhaps helps her in the short term, but helps nobody in the long run. I do agree that as a first step, you could follow the advice above about reaching out and trying to get her the sort of help that would actually improve her life. But the thing is, she might resist that sort of help, and here's why: many people don't want their lives to be better as much as they want their lives to be easier. That's your role right now - the buffer between her self-destructive decisions and the actual consequences of those decisions. By shielding her from those consequences, you're actually making it less likely that she'll change, because why should she?
This doesn't mean that you won't feel extraordinary guilt, pain, shame, and terror if you do make her leave. Of course you will - she's your mom. I actually don't share jefficator's optimism that she'll either straighten up and take care of herself or she'll get herself in deep enough trouble that she realizes she is a problem. The truth is, she might straighten up once she hits bottom - but she also might not. But at a certain point you have to accept that you've done all you can, and if she still won't take responsibility for her own behavior then that is her decision and you can't stop her.
posted by granted at 12:03 PM on April 13, 2010
And if her mother doesn't follow those rules (and she probably won't), then what? What's her incentive, if she knows that the OP will allow her to stay regardless?
OP, allowing your mother to stay perhaps helps her in the short term, but helps nobody in the long run. I do agree that as a first step, you could follow the advice above about reaching out and trying to get her the sort of help that would actually improve her life. But the thing is, she might resist that sort of help, and here's why: many people don't want their lives to be better as much as they want their lives to be easier. That's your role right now - the buffer between her self-destructive decisions and the actual consequences of those decisions. By shielding her from those consequences, you're actually making it less likely that she'll change, because why should she?
This doesn't mean that you won't feel extraordinary guilt, pain, shame, and terror if you do make her leave. Of course you will - she's your mom. I actually don't share jefficator's optimism that she'll either straighten up and take care of herself or she'll get herself in deep enough trouble that she realizes she is a problem. The truth is, she might straighten up once she hits bottom - but she also might not. But at a certain point you have to accept that you've done all you can, and if she still won't take responsibility for her own behavior then that is her decision and you can't stop her.
posted by granted at 12:03 PM on April 13, 2010
My mother was schizophrenic. I had to commit her twice, neither time was easy, but it was the only solution. I had to cut her out of my life and my children's lives because it was too difficult to be around her. Do I feel guilty? NO, not at all. I did what I could and that was the best I could do.
Your mother should be eligible for SSI which will give her a small amount to live on. We pay for this with our taxes. She should also receive Medicaid and Food Stamps. There is sheltered housing for people like her, there wasn't much when I was going through the shit with my mom.
It is not selfish to put your own sanity first.
posted by mareli at 12:30 PM on April 13, 2010
Your mother should be eligible for SSI which will give her a small amount to live on. We pay for this with our taxes. She should also receive Medicaid and Food Stamps. There is sheltered housing for people like her, there wasn't much when I was going through the shit with my mom.
It is not selfish to put your own sanity first.
posted by mareli at 12:30 PM on April 13, 2010
And if her mother doesn't follow those rules (and she probably won't), then what? What's her incentive, if she knows that the OP will allow her to stay regardless?
It's a judgment call, I agree. I just don't think the response should be "forget about it, don't let her stay" if there's a chance that something can be done to help--be it by allowing her to live in the apartment or finding another housing situation through The Straightener's suggestion. If her mother's concern is to find a way to "make life easy, instead of making it better", she's being a parasite and there is no reason to tolerate that, you are completely right. This isn't clear from the initial post, though.
I can sympathize with the mother in this situation, she's lost family members over the course of the past few years, has made bad decisions, and has a history of mental health problems.
From my admittedly biased perspective, if there is anything that can realistically be done to help, you need to do it. I would err on the side of caution in throwing someone out on the streets, because there are some decisions that just can't be undone, as cliche as it sounds. Be damned sure that you've done all that you can do before you cut the cord and leave a woman who has never been able to function well on her own to live on the streets. It will let you sleep better at night, even if the outcome is ultimately the same.
Also, OP, you are the best judge of what you can and can't do. I am not at all saying that you should sacrifice your sanity and health for a person who can not or will not ever change.
posted by _cave at 1:10 PM on April 13, 2010
It's a judgment call, I agree. I just don't think the response should be "forget about it, don't let her stay" if there's a chance that something can be done to help--be it by allowing her to live in the apartment or finding another housing situation through The Straightener's suggestion. If her mother's concern is to find a way to "make life easy, instead of making it better", she's being a parasite and there is no reason to tolerate that, you are completely right. This isn't clear from the initial post, though.
I can sympathize with the mother in this situation, she's lost family members over the course of the past few years, has made bad decisions, and has a history of mental health problems.
From my admittedly biased perspective, if there is anything that can realistically be done to help, you need to do it. I would err on the side of caution in throwing someone out on the streets, because there are some decisions that just can't be undone, as cliche as it sounds. Be damned sure that you've done all that you can do before you cut the cord and leave a woman who has never been able to function well on her own to live on the streets. It will let you sleep better at night, even if the outcome is ultimately the same.
Also, OP, you are the best judge of what you can and can't do. I am not at all saying that you should sacrifice your sanity and health for a person who can not or will not ever change.
posted by _cave at 1:10 PM on April 13, 2010
Response by poster: I don't know how I am going to do it right now, but I think she has to go. I don't think I can help her get better. My husband and I are going to have to come up with a way to tell her to leave. I got home today after being at my clinical rotation for nine hours to be yelled at about the fact that her phone doesn't work. Plus she was yelling at my husband earlier about not being able to drink.
My sister has said she will not let my mom stay with her because her marriage is already on the rocks. I just found out today that my mom is still married to the guy she was with for 12 days and he is nice and probably would help her but she doesn't like him because he is "gross" and "ugly".
I don't know what I am going to do at this very moment. I am emotionally exhausted and physically tired and don't know how to even approach this right now.
Thank you all for your advice. I really do appreciate it. I honestly work hard at just trying to take care of myself and my own problems I have had with mental illness and depression. Adding this is even worse. I feel myself slipping back into depression, internalizing everything, and feeling like I haven't felt in years.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2010
My sister has said she will not let my mom stay with her because her marriage is already on the rocks. I just found out today that my mom is still married to the guy she was with for 12 days and he is nice and probably would help her but she doesn't like him because he is "gross" and "ugly".
I don't know what I am going to do at this very moment. I am emotionally exhausted and physically tired and don't know how to even approach this right now.
Thank you all for your advice. I really do appreciate it. I honestly work hard at just trying to take care of myself and my own problems I have had with mental illness and depression. Adding this is even worse. I feel myself slipping back into depression, internalizing everything, and feeling like I haven't felt in years.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2010
If your mother is in imminent danger of eviction, usually that would move her up on any waiting list for housing. If you are willing to write up a letter stating that she has to leave your home (and sorry, a one bedroom is not really big enough anyway) that would be taken into consideration. It is also possible, if your mom has a diagnosed mental illness (which the klonopin leads me to believe could be the case) it is also possible she would be eligible for disability.
I think the Department of Social Services might be a good place for you to start investigation options.
Meanwhile the cynic in me says your mom will be in your home only long enough to meet another man, and then she'll be gone...
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:44 PM on April 13, 2010
I think the Department of Social Services might be a good place for you to start investigation options.
Meanwhile the cynic in me says your mom will be in your home only long enough to meet another man, and then she'll be gone...
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:44 PM on April 13, 2010
Oh, on preview, I see she is still married.
Tell her she can't stay with you, go back to the husband.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 PM on April 13, 2010
Tell her she can't stay with you, go back to the husband.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 PM on April 13, 2010
Can you rent a hotel room for her for a few days while you try to sort out alternate housing as suggested above? Once she has left for the hotel, change the locks. This way she is not on the street, and it is her choice to figure out how to proceed once your tab has run out at the hotel.
posted by crazycanuck at 8:32 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by crazycanuck at 8:32 PM on April 13, 2010
Hazyjane's "pay for a flophouse" advice is pretty close to what a friend of mine does with his sister. He splits it with other family members (or uses an inheritance designated for this purpose?). It's some super-cheap place on skid row, is the impression I got. He still has to deal with issues occasionally, like her getting kicked out for behavior problems, so you might want a more temporary situation so it's not a situation that you have to permanently maintain.
posted by salvia at 11:14 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by salvia at 11:14 PM on April 13, 2010
Response by poster: I don't really want to support her. She isn't from San Jose so she was stuck down there. If I send her back to her home town with some money in the very least I helped her get to her home town again from San Jose with a short vacation in Seattle.
All her belongings and car are still in her home town since she left to San Jose with Loser Boyfriend # 3 on short notice.
I know her husband would help her but she basically hates him because he wanted her to act like an adult. I don't know. She may have more options than I know but all I know is she is going to probably have to leave. She is getting more hostile by the day and acting very rude toward both my husband and me. I just don't know how to set that up right now.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:50 AM on April 14, 2010
All her belongings and car are still in her home town since she left to San Jose with Loser Boyfriend # 3 on short notice.
I know her husband would help her but she basically hates him because he wanted her to act like an adult. I don't know. She may have more options than I know but all I know is she is going to probably have to leave. She is getting more hostile by the day and acting very rude toward both my husband and me. I just don't know how to set that up right now.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:50 AM on April 14, 2010
Also, if she is not only an addict but has borderline personality disorder as you suspect, please be prepared for the possibility that she will never see that she needs help and will refuse to the death (more so than a "regular" addict or someone with some mental illness other than a personality disorder), and that you may have to detach permanently.
People with borderline PD are notoriously hard to work with in a mental health setting and may refuse any suggestion of therapy, recovery, or help - at least that was my experience and the experience of several mental health professionals and loved ones of addicts, abusers and people with borderline PD that I've known (think Venn diagram, of course).
posted by Pax at 7:13 AM on April 14, 2010
People with borderline PD are notoriously hard to work with in a mental health setting and may refuse any suggestion of therapy, recovery, or help - at least that was my experience and the experience of several mental health professionals and loved ones of addicts, abusers and people with borderline PD that I've known (think Venn diagram, of course).
posted by Pax at 7:13 AM on April 14, 2010
So, she does have somewhere else to go, (husband) so it's on HER if she chooses not to go back home. I'd send her back now....bless you for taking her in temporarily but no you don't have to put up with this nonsense longterm. It's YOUR home.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Well her "husband" is a long haul truck driver who lives in his truck and they were only in a relationship 12 days before she called it quits. They are supposed to be divorced so it's not as simple as sending her home to her husband who she seems to hate.
posted by rainygrl716 at 2:48 PM on April 14, 2010
posted by rainygrl716 at 2:48 PM on April 14, 2010
Good luck. Be firm, do not argue with her, do not explain, just tell her she needs to leave and repeat that. Trying to explain or reason or argue or converse will do no good. Hand her the train ticket back home (or whatever) and tell her to leave. Don't waver, let her scream, cry, spit in your face, bang on your door, just act strong until it's over.
Also, make sure you're ready for your own recovery. Do what you need to do to make sure you don't slip into depression or go back to any of your own destructive habits. Call some supportive friends and set yourself up ahead of time for a healthy recovery. Mourn and cry, and then do what you need to get yourself back on your feet. Go for a long walk or a bike ride or a swim. Drink lots of tea. And let yourself be ok. Know what I mean?
posted by hannahelastic at 3:00 PM on April 14, 2010
Also, make sure you're ready for your own recovery. Do what you need to do to make sure you don't slip into depression or go back to any of your own destructive habits. Call some supportive friends and set yourself up ahead of time for a healthy recovery. Mourn and cry, and then do what you need to get yourself back on your feet. Go for a long walk or a bike ride or a swim. Drink lots of tea. And let yourself be ok. Know what I mean?
posted by hannahelastic at 3:00 PM on April 14, 2010
Response by poster: Okay, she is going to leave. She is going to stay with someone in her home town with the guy who currently has her car. There is a lot of crying and pitying of herself right now. I love her so much but I honestly am not equipped to deal with her issues. I am heartbroken and feel miserable.
posted by rainygrl716 at 5:04 PM on April 14, 2010
posted by rainygrl716 at 5:04 PM on April 14, 2010
Response by poster: It is amazing how now that there is a plan to leave she has straightened up her attitude and is acting sweet and rational.
She is leaving Friday. I contacted her husband and he is willing to help her out once she is in her home town but I don't think she will take it.
I know I am posting in this thread way too much, when I really need counseling or al anon help but I feel so awful right now. I feel like I am sending her back into a dangerous, terrible environment.
I have a job interview tomorrow and instead of sleeping I am up bawling about all of this. Reading the responses in this thread repeatedly is one of the only ways I keep my sanity right now. I've already slipped back into a very dark place and feel myself becoming very unwell...
posted by rainygrl716 at 10:21 PM on April 14, 2010
She is leaving Friday. I contacted her husband and he is willing to help her out once she is in her home town but I don't think she will take it.
I know I am posting in this thread way too much, when I really need counseling or al anon help but I feel so awful right now. I feel like I am sending her back into a dangerous, terrible environment.
I have a job interview tomorrow and instead of sleeping I am up bawling about all of this. Reading the responses in this thread repeatedly is one of the only ways I keep my sanity right now. I've already slipped back into a very dark place and feel myself becoming very unwell...
posted by rainygrl716 at 10:21 PM on April 14, 2010
Oh, this is such a sad situation. I hope you do well on the job interview - she's leaving tomorrow! Gird your loins for one more day and follow through. Poor thing.
posted by amicamentis at 7:26 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by amicamentis at 7:26 AM on April 15, 2010
I think you did the right thing. Be strong!! Overposting should be the least of your concerns - I think we're all rooting for you and are happy to have updates!!
posted by granted at 7:05 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by granted at 7:05 PM on April 15, 2010
You are not posting in this thread too much! I am glad to hear you are holding up even if it is horribly hard on you. Please post more if it helps.
Also make plans to see Al Anon.
That job interview is important, and future job interviews will be important too. In the future ones, you won't have this load on your back keeping you from sleeping. Along with the guilt, you will feel relief. Aknowledge this feeling.
You are a good person, rainygrl. Don't forget it.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:01 AM on April 16, 2010
Also make plans to see Al Anon.
That job interview is important, and future job interviews will be important too. In the future ones, you won't have this load on your back keeping you from sleeping. Along with the guilt, you will feel relief. Aknowledge this feeling.
You are a good person, rainygrl. Don't forget it.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:01 AM on April 16, 2010
Response by poster: Another update: I contacted my sister because my mom has been acting more sane these past few days and I felt terrible about just sending her back to her home town with nothing, knowing she was going to go back to friends of the guy who kicked her out on the street where there are drugs and alcohol. She has been sober for two weeks.
Right now the plan is to send her back on Sunday, my sister will pick her up, let her stay the night and my sister is looking into the services down there. She knows of some recovery houses and women's shelters. As long as my mom stays sober and doesn't bring too much drama there she is going to try to help her get on general assistance, see her doctor, get set up in a recovery center.
I haven't talked to my sister for years because she has so many issues as well but it is nice to try and work on this together. I don't know if my mom will be able to help herself but I can't say I didn't try.
posted by rainygrl716 at 5:28 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Right now the plan is to send her back on Sunday, my sister will pick her up, let her stay the night and my sister is looking into the services down there. She knows of some recovery houses and women's shelters. As long as my mom stays sober and doesn't bring too much drama there she is going to try to help her get on general assistance, see her doctor, get set up in a recovery center.
I haven't talked to my sister for years because she has so many issues as well but it is nice to try and work on this together. I don't know if my mom will be able to help herself but I can't say I didn't try.
posted by rainygrl716 at 5:28 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: She left today. I didn't realize it would hit me so hard. I've been a huge mess, bawling all day, calling her to make sure she is okay. It breaks my heart so much and I just want to keep her safe even if it means her living on my living room floor, dealing with her moods. I know that isn't what is right for me but my heart right now is truly broken.
In other news, my husband and I are now being harassed via email and text messages by the ex-bf. He is of the criminal element so I am hoping nothing serious comes of this new development. It us quite unnerving.
posted by rainygrl716 at 7:27 PM on April 18, 2010
In other news, my husband and I are now being harassed via email and text messages by the ex-bf. He is of the criminal element so I am hoping nothing serious comes of this new development. It us quite unnerving.
posted by rainygrl716 at 7:27 PM on April 18, 2010
I'd report that last little development to the police, if I were you. Not cool!
You did what was right for you-and more importantly, for Mom. Sometimes love has to be tough. I wish her, and you, the best.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:35 AM on April 19, 2010
You did what was right for you-and more importantly, for Mom. Sometimes love has to be tough. I wish her, and you, the best.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:35 AM on April 19, 2010
Response by poster: In case anyone is curious regarding an update: My husband and I are paying for my mom to be in a sober house with other women who are getting treatment. She is down in her hometown, has her medical insurance down there, and is applying for general assistance/food stamps. She is almost 70 days sober currently and is attending AA and has a sponsor. She goes to multiple meetings a week with some of the girls from the house she is in and she is doing an outpatient addiction program through the state that meets twice a week. The house has some drama to it (it is six women living together) so she is trying to adjust to that and play nice which isn't always her strong point, but she has met a really good friend in the house that is helping provide emotional support through this time so that is good.
Her big goal is to get a job right now, which isn't easy. The town she is in has unemployment of almost 18%. She is applying for anything (fast food, motel maid). I think she will feel better about herself once she does get a job, plus it will help ease the financial burden my husband and I have right now fully supporting her (that has been stressful on us).
I really hope things can work out for her. Right now I feel like we have to provide so much emotional and financial support for her. It is very difficult on us and me. I am graduating this week but I'm so consumed with my mama's drama that I don't feel excitement or accomplishment right now. Keep us all in your thoughts if you can, mefites, and thanks for all the advice!
posted by rainygrl716 at 8:05 PM on June 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Her big goal is to get a job right now, which isn't easy. The town she is in has unemployment of almost 18%. She is applying for anything (fast food, motel maid). I think she will feel better about herself once she does get a job, plus it will help ease the financial burden my husband and I have right now fully supporting her (that has been stressful on us).
I really hope things can work out for her. Right now I feel like we have to provide so much emotional and financial support for her. It is very difficult on us and me. I am graduating this week but I'm so consumed with my mama's drama that I don't feel excitement or accomplishment right now. Keep us all in your thoughts if you can, mefites, and thanks for all the advice!
posted by rainygrl716 at 8:05 PM on June 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Would you accept this behavior from a stranger?
posted by jefficator at 6:41 AM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]