Dream Vacay without the fiance
April 7, 2010 12:55 PM Subscribe
I am getting married in early July. I was offered a month long, all expenses paid trip to London for the month of May by my job. My fiance will have to work and can't go with me. She is not thrilled by the idea.
I have spoken to her and told her that I would really like to do it, but that I understand it's kind of close to the wedding and would make it difficult for me to collaborate on wedding stuff for that month. At the same time, I've never been to England, and when is the next time I will be getting paid to hang out in another country? I softly presented the idea to her, and told her it was something I would really like to do but that since it was so close to our wedding I wanted to talk it out with her and make sure it was ok with her. Her response was something like "It's not even so much that it's close to the wedding..." and when I asked her what it was, she said "Well, we'd be apart for a month."
Planning a wedding is stressful and requires a lot of work, but there's plenty I could do from Europe (I.E.: Help with playlists, email people, research things on the internet). I am very conscious of the fact that this would take me out of the running for a minute, but it would definitely bring me back a month before the wedding.
Questions:
1.) Is it selfish of me to want to go?
2.) I'm really trying to out of my way to be sensitive to her feelings, but I really want to do this. If it's not selfish of me to want to go, how hard should I fight for this?
Thanks.
I have spoken to her and told her that I would really like to do it, but that I understand it's kind of close to the wedding and would make it difficult for me to collaborate on wedding stuff for that month. At the same time, I've never been to England, and when is the next time I will be getting paid to hang out in another country? I softly presented the idea to her, and told her it was something I would really like to do but that since it was so close to our wedding I wanted to talk it out with her and make sure it was ok with her. Her response was something like "It's not even so much that it's close to the wedding..." and when I asked her what it was, she said "Well, we'd be apart for a month."
Planning a wedding is stressful and requires a lot of work, but there's plenty I could do from Europe (I.E.: Help with playlists, email people, research things on the internet). I am very conscious of the fact that this would take me out of the running for a minute, but it would definitely bring me back a month before the wedding.
Questions:
1.) Is it selfish of me to want to go?
2.) I'm really trying to out of my way to be sensitive to her feelings, but I really want to do this. If it's not selfish of me to want to go, how hard should I fight for this?
Thanks.
Why are you completely ignoring what she actually said to you? It's not about the wedding, it's about the fact that a long-distance relationship, even a temporary long-distance relationship, is really hard, and she doesn't want to be apart from you for a month. From what you wrote, it looks like you didn't even address this with her, or seem to care that you weren't going to see her for a month. Do you?
posted by brainmouse at 1:00 PM on April 7, 2010 [22 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 1:00 PM on April 7, 2010 [22 favorites]
Wait, if she's said it's not about the wedding but about the fact that you will be apart for the month, why are you still focusing on the stuff about the wedding and how you can help with it?
posted by Ashley801 at 1:02 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Ashley801 at 1:02 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
1. Not at all
2. Do it. I could see if you and your fiancee were only dating why she would be concerned about being apart for a month but...you're getting married. You're going to be together for a long, long time. As a female, f I were in the same situation, I would tell you to go. That is a priceless opportunity and selfish of her to give you a hard time about it, regardless of the fact that your wedding is approaching. Just because you're engaged doesn't mean you need to be together all the time.
posted by kmavap at 1:04 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
2. Do it. I could see if you and your fiancee were only dating why she would be concerned about being apart for a month but...you're getting married. You're going to be together for a long, long time. As a female, f I were in the same situation, I would tell you to go. That is a priceless opportunity and selfish of her to give you a hard time about it, regardless of the fact that your wedding is approaching. Just because you're engaged doesn't mean you need to be together all the time.
posted by kmavap at 1:04 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Yeah actually my initial response was the same as brainmouse's ... you tell us what she said, and then go into details showing how much planning you can really get done from England. As a girl who is getting married next May, and who has been long distance (one in USA one in Japan), I can completely understand where she's coming from. Really, it's not about the ease of planning. A month is not a trivial length of time to be apart. Is there any way you guys could afford to send her to England for a few days right in the middle of it? Having that to look forward to would make the goodbye easier for her.
posted by kthxbi at 1:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by kthxbi at 1:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
1. Yes, very selfish.
2. See #1. Stay home with your soon to be wife. Take her to England for your anniversary.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
2. See #1. Stay home with your soon to be wife. Take her to England for your anniversary.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's absolutely not selfish of you to want to take advantage of an opportunity like this. Fiance or not, asking you to stay pass it up just so that her life can be a little more pleasant for a month -- THAT'S exceedingly clingy.
posted by philokalia at 1:08 PM on April 7, 2010 [23 favorites]
posted by philokalia at 1:08 PM on April 7, 2010 [23 favorites]
1. Not selfish
2. Wedding not the issue as others have said. If you can, I second the plan to bring her over for a week in the middle if she can get the time off work. That makes a big difference.
posted by josher71 at 1:10 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
2. Wedding not the issue as others have said. If you can, I second the plan to bring her over for a week in the middle if she can get the time off work. That makes a big difference.
posted by josher71 at 1:10 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
My fiance will have to work and can't go with me.
The WHOLE month? Can she get away for a few days, a week maybe?
Do you really have to be gone the WHOLE month? Can you go for two weeks, then come back? Can she meet you out there for a few days or a week and then you fly back together, even if it means you're there the whole month?
And yeah, based on what you've written, she's bothered by being apart for a whole month, not the wedding stuff. PAY ATTENTION TO THAT PART. I can bet she's pissed and hurt that you seem so ready willing and able to take off for a whole month and seemingly not miss her much. Not exactly "ooo this is the guys I'm going to spend the rest of my life with material" you know?
Seriously, you're whole tone here is I WANT TO GO NO MATTER WHAT I WANT TO GO NO MATER WHAT. Slow down there champ and start articulating ways you can keep in touch during that month to signal that you'll be missing her.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2010 [14 favorites]
The WHOLE month? Can she get away for a few days, a week maybe?
Do you really have to be gone the WHOLE month? Can you go for two weeks, then come back? Can she meet you out there for a few days or a week and then you fly back together, even if it means you're there the whole month?
And yeah, based on what you've written, she's bothered by being apart for a whole month, not the wedding stuff. PAY ATTENTION TO THAT PART. I can bet she's pissed and hurt that you seem so ready willing and able to take off for a whole month and seemingly not miss her much. Not exactly "ooo this is the guys I'm going to spend the rest of my life with material" you know?
Seriously, you're whole tone here is I WANT TO GO NO MATTER WHAT I WANT TO GO NO MATER WHAT. Slow down there champ and start articulating ways you can keep in touch during that month to signal that you'll be missing her.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2010 [14 favorites]
It's not selfish to want to go, no. But depending on the nature of the wedding the two of you are planning, it might be a poor choice to actually go. Planning a wedding can involve a lot of talking and running around and ok'ing things and supervising people--not things that are easy to do by e-mail.
Practically speaking, if your fiancee were ok with your going, your month-long absence wouldn't do much damage to the planning process (June will likely be the busiest month for the two of you). However, given that your wedding is so close and that this is apparently a contentious issue, it seems unwise to push for it. Rather than press for this month-long business trip without her, why not plan for a future vacation together?
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Practically speaking, if your fiancee were ok with your going, your month-long absence wouldn't do much damage to the planning process (June will likely be the busiest month for the two of you). However, given that your wedding is so close and that this is apparently a contentious issue, it seems unwise to push for it. Rather than press for this month-long business trip without her, why not plan for a future vacation together?
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's not selfish at all. An all-expenses paid trip to London? If it's actually about the fact that she just doesn't want to be apart for a month, and not because she's worried about planning the wedding, then it's pretty selfish of her to value her arbitrary feelings over a lucky break that you're super-excited about. You're both adults and clearly in a committed relationship. You have the rest of your life to spend time with each other! Go to London and bring me back some Branston pickle sauce.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by zoomorphic at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think the wrong way to go about solving this particular issue is trying to decide who's right and who's wrong, and who's selfish and who's not selfish.
Before doing that, I think you guys should make an honest attempt to make both of you happy, to create a win-win situation.
So, why exactly is it that she doesn't want to be apart for the month? She said it's not the wedding, so what is it? Would she be lonely? Would she be too stressed out? Whatever it is, I think you guys can come up with a solution to solve it. But before you can solve any problem, you need to figure out exactly what the problem is. So, I think the first step is to have a long, non-defensive conversation about it.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Before doing that, I think you guys should make an honest attempt to make both of you happy, to create a win-win situation.
So, why exactly is it that she doesn't want to be apart for the month? She said it's not the wedding, so what is it? Would she be lonely? Would she be too stressed out? Whatever it is, I think you guys can come up with a solution to solve it. But before you can solve any problem, you need to figure out exactly what the problem is. So, I think the first step is to have a long, non-defensive conversation about it.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Maybe it's selfish that you want to go, and maybe it's selfish that she wants you to say. *shrug* You guys have to really figure out what's on your wedding to-do list and see what will take the hit if you leave. You also have to make sure that there's an equal division of labour if you're gone for a month - it's unfair that she would have to do everything just because you get to go to England courtesy of your job. What is your role now in the preparations? Can that be put on hold for a month without jeopardizing everything? Can you line up enough support for her so that she's not saddled everything? When you get back are you going to be able to get back into preparations? If the roles were reversed, what would you want? (and ask her that question too, even though I'm sure you'll say, "I'd let you go!" and she'll say, "I'd stay!) I think it's more than being apart for a month. She may resent you that you get to go gallavanting elsewhere while she's stuck at home and has all these responsibilities. You don't have to go; it's not required for your job; it's just a perk of your job. She might be more understanding if it was a requirement for work, but so far, you have a choice to go or not. So just be sensitive to that. If you go, be prepared to spend a good chunk of each day on wedding stuff - it may not even feel like a vacation in the end! You could set aside specific hours of the day to do wedding stuff and talk to her. If she doesn't want you to go, you might get resentful about that. So just be careful about all these emotions. And: is there no possibility that the vacation dates can be moved? E.g. if your honeymoon is not planned already, move it till after the wedding, and you guys pay for her airfare. If your honeymoon is planned, just tack this England trip onto it.
posted by foxjacket at 1:16 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by foxjacket at 1:16 PM on April 7, 2010
P.S. You do sound like a very considerate person to your fiance , so I'm more talking about some of the other answers here - I think it's a really bad way to start off a marriage in the mentality of pitting your interests against each other and maligning the interests of the other person (either yours or hers) as selfish or stupid or whatever. Everyone has their own wants/needs. If you see someone's wants/needs as wrong or problematic, it's best not to get married to them. Once you've decided to commit to someone for life, it's best try to get the interests to work together.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:23 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Ashley801 at 1:23 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Does it have to be May? Would work be willing to postpone it until she was able to join you?
posted by cestmoi15 at 1:25 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by cestmoi15 at 1:25 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
This would be a bit of a red flag for me. From my perspective, a month apart isn't a terribly long time, and I'd be creeped out at the suggestion that it was an unreasonable imposition on a spouse-to-be. But maybe what would be "clingy" to me is "doting" to you.
posted by lakeroon at 1:27 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lakeroon at 1:27 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. It's not so much that I'm ignoring her feelings, but I just don't feel like that's a very long time to be away. Of course I would miss her, and of course I would not make the decision to go without her being comfortable with it, but a month is a month. It's not that long. We live in a big city, she has a lot of friends, and it's not like I would be leaving her alone without any support or friends or human contact. I haven't really gotten a chance to do a lot of hashing out with her yet (I am at work - called her at work about it) but wedding aside, a month apart just doesn't seem like a big deal to me in the face of this kind of opportunity. If she were, say, to get a grant doing research somewhere, and I had to work, of course I would miss her, but I would be really excited for her opportunity and I would absolutely encourage her to go.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:31 PM on April 7, 2010
In the best of all possible worlds, I would love for her to come with me, but she is a teacher, and since she's going to be off for 2 and 1/2 months starting mid-june anyway, she's not going to be able to take a week off to come visit. Additionally, my work has already agreed with the client that it would be may, so it's either me or someone else. It's a shame that the timing of this is so inopportune, but I didn't make the opportunity. In an ideal world, she would definitely be coming with me, but I don't have any control over that.
I wouldn't be coming to askme if I didn't care about her feelings. I'm asking this question because I WANT to be considerate of her feelings and her needs. This is not an attempt to invalidate her worries about this trip, but more to try and give her a better sense of where I'm coming from, and get a better sense of where she's coming from.
It's not selfish of you to want to go, or for her to want you to stay. And I'm nth-ing the idea that it isn't about the wedding planning. When I was planning my wedding, most of the decisions had already been settled by 2 months beforehand, but it was still an incredibly stressful time and I needed my fiance with me. If he had gone off to London for a month two months before our wedding, it would have been absolutely horrible to have to deal with weird familial and social pressures alone. I don't care what anyone says about the virtues of Skype, Skype =! a hug or some sex. Long-distance relationships suck, even if it's just for a month.
My husband leaves town for a few weeks many summers, for a seasonal job in a different city. I don't quibble about him going, because it's what's best for him and for us as a whole. But I absolutely hate it when he's gone, because he's my husband. Screw all this stuff about "you're two adults in a committed relationship and you have all the rest of your life to spend together" -- people want to actually be with their spouses and fiances, not stuck on the other end of a telephone without getting to see them for weeks at a time.
Maybe I'm clingy, maybe other commenters are cold. But it seems to me that if you can't understand why your wife-to-be doesn't want you to go away for a MONTH, to ANOTHER COUNTRY, two months before your wedding, maybe there are some other issues that you need to address in your relationship, because you clearly are comfortable with a much greater degree of separation from your loved ones than your fiancee is. So you two should discuss this, or you're going to end up seeing her as annoyingly clingy or she's going to end up seeing you as inexplicably cold and unloving.
posted by kataclysm at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [10 favorites]
My husband leaves town for a few weeks many summers, for a seasonal job in a different city. I don't quibble about him going, because it's what's best for him and for us as a whole. But I absolutely hate it when he's gone, because he's my husband. Screw all this stuff about "you're two adults in a committed relationship and you have all the rest of your life to spend together" -- people want to actually be with their spouses and fiances, not stuck on the other end of a telephone without getting to see them for weeks at a time.
Maybe I'm clingy, maybe other commenters are cold. But it seems to me that if you can't understand why your wife-to-be doesn't want you to go away for a MONTH, to ANOTHER COUNTRY, two months before your wedding, maybe there are some other issues that you need to address in your relationship, because you clearly are comfortable with a much greater degree of separation from your loved ones than your fiancee is. So you two should discuss this, or you're going to end up seeing her as annoyingly clingy or she's going to end up seeing you as inexplicably cold and unloving.
posted by kataclysm at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [10 favorites]
From my perspective, a month apart isn't a terribly long time, and I'd be creeped out at the suggestion that it was an unreasonable imposition on a spouse-to-be.
Thing is -- if that's her need, that little time apart -- that's not going to go away once they get married. Likewise if the OP needs to feel like he/she is free enough to take awesome trips if he/she wants to, that's not going to go away either. We all have needs that other people might find creepy, off-putting, etc. But partnering with someone for life is about meeting each other's needs. I don't think you can decide someone's needs are unreasonable and you can't/won't meet them, and agree to marry them in the same breath. I mean, you can, but I think *that* is unreasonable and will lead to a turbulent marriage.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Thing is -- if that's her need, that little time apart -- that's not going to go away once they get married. Likewise if the OP needs to feel like he/she is free enough to take awesome trips if he/she wants to, that's not going to go away either. We all have needs that other people might find creepy, off-putting, etc. But partnering with someone for life is about meeting each other's needs. I don't think you can decide someone's needs are unreasonable and you can't/won't meet them, and agree to marry them in the same breath. I mean, you can, but I think *that* is unreasonable and will lead to a turbulent marriage.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm also planning a wedding and would feel similarly to your fiancee. I sometimes have a hard time going a weekend without seeing my SO, and I think just the sheer being apart would be really hard, regardless of whether there was a wedding in the works or no.
If I were her I would really want you to be able to have that opportunity, but be nervous that I would miss having you around for all the good things and the stressful things about planning a wedding, as well as the rest of everyday life. I don't think I would even be worried about him getting actual planning done, but more worried he wouldn't be there for emotional support.
If you want to go I think you need to convince her that you will be there emotionally for her and be in contact very often.
I don't think it's selfish of you to want to go, but I think you just need to understand better where she is probably coming from and weigh whether your once in a lifetime opportunity is worth the inevitable reduction in support that you can give her.
posted by NHlove at 1:35 PM on April 7, 2010
If I were her I would really want you to be able to have that opportunity, but be nervous that I would miss having you around for all the good things and the stressful things about planning a wedding, as well as the rest of everyday life. I don't think I would even be worried about him getting actual planning done, but more worried he wouldn't be there for emotional support.
If you want to go I think you need to convince her that you will be there emotionally for her and be in contact very often.
I don't think it's selfish of you to want to go, but I think you just need to understand better where she is probably coming from and weigh whether your once in a lifetime opportunity is worth the inevitable reduction in support that you can give her.
posted by NHlove at 1:35 PM on April 7, 2010
It isn't selfish of you to want to go, and it isn't selfish of her to want you to stay. You kind of can't help your feelings. However, the months of planning leading up to my wedding were Big Fun, and had so many awesome, touching couple moments attached to them that I have to recommend sticking around. Go away together later. There'll be plenty of time for Skype and long-distance calls over the years.
(On preview, after your update - weddings mean different things to different people. I was and am pretty shmoopy about mine. YMMV, but if you're here asking this there's probably a chance that you're in for a rough conversation. Good luck.)
posted by mintcake! at 1:35 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
(On preview, after your update - weddings mean different things to different people. I was and am pretty shmoopy about mine. YMMV, but if you're here asking this there's probably a chance that you're in for a rough conversation. Good luck.)
posted by mintcake! at 1:35 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
You need to talk about this, and now. I am away from home right now actually, for a whole month, because of my work. Perhaps you will travel again for work, or want to take a separate vacation (horrors, huh? It happens. Especially if you have friends who travel). If so, you need to address this issue.
My husband and I have had many periods of separation because of work. That doesn't mean we don't miss each other or are sometimes really annoyed by it, but it does mean that I learnt to do things on my own and not miss him terribly just because I thought that's what a wife should do. Things have shifted a very long way from when I was first married. It's easy to be caught up in expectations of what you think should happen and how you should behave when you are newly married. I absolutely know where she is coming from, and if you had said to me 7 years ago this is how we would now live I wouldn't believe it. Talk to her. Try to really get to the bottom of why she feels this way.
And, I think you should go. The months leading up to weddings are awful. I wanted my fiancee far away a lot of the time! If you can talk this out and come to an agreement you may really value this time apart.
posted by wingless_angel at 1:37 PM on April 7, 2010
My husband and I have had many periods of separation because of work. That doesn't mean we don't miss each other or are sometimes really annoyed by it, but it does mean that I learnt to do things on my own and not miss him terribly just because I thought that's what a wife should do. Things have shifted a very long way from when I was first married. It's easy to be caught up in expectations of what you think should happen and how you should behave when you are newly married. I absolutely know where she is coming from, and if you had said to me 7 years ago this is how we would now live I wouldn't believe it. Talk to her. Try to really get to the bottom of why she feels this way.
And, I think you should go. The months leading up to weddings are awful. I wanted my fiancee far away a lot of the time! If you can talk this out and come to an agreement you may really value this time apart.
posted by wingless_angel at 1:37 PM on April 7, 2010
If she is not mature enough to see what an opportunity this is for you, I'd be concerned about her clinginess.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:39 PM on April 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:39 PM on April 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
I've found in my experience that it's very good for a relationship to remember what a feeling of independence is like - managing to make yourself happy without relying on the other person. But don't try to sell it to her like that, she'll get mad. A month is a sizeable amount of time, but not really that much in the grand scheme of things. I don't think it's selfish of you to want to go, but you need to address her concerns about being apart for a month.
How good of an idea this is depends on what kind of relationship you currently have with eachother. If you're eachother's bestest friend in the whole world, and she doesn't have many other family members or friends close by, then yeah, this will really suck for her and she'll probably be really difficult to convince otherwise. If she has friends and family (that she likes spending time with), then I'm sure she might be eased into the idea.
Mostly she needs lots of reassurance - she wants to know you will miss her immensely on the trip, you won't forget about her the moment you're on the plane, and that you'll think about her all the time while you're gone. Any time the trip comes up in conversation, you'll have to remember to let her know you'll miss her enormously, etc. She just doesn't want to be alone - fortunately modern technology makes it easy to talk to her every day regardless of where you are. I just recommend against sitting online for hours in the evening with her instead of going out once in a while - make sure to set plans for *when* you'll talk next and what your plans are for the next day, she'll want to be as well-informed as she is now regarding daily activities. Keeping her well-informed will do much for reassuring her you still care about her deeply. And of course, make sure to stay well-informed and interested on her activities at home.
posted by lizbunny at 1:40 PM on April 7, 2010
How good of an idea this is depends on what kind of relationship you currently have with eachother. If you're eachother's bestest friend in the whole world, and she doesn't have many other family members or friends close by, then yeah, this will really suck for her and she'll probably be really difficult to convince otherwise. If she has friends and family (that she likes spending time with), then I'm sure she might be eased into the idea.
Mostly she needs lots of reassurance - she wants to know you will miss her immensely on the trip, you won't forget about her the moment you're on the plane, and that you'll think about her all the time while you're gone. Any time the trip comes up in conversation, you'll have to remember to let her know you'll miss her enormously, etc. She just doesn't want to be alone - fortunately modern technology makes it easy to talk to her every day regardless of where you are. I just recommend against sitting online for hours in the evening with her instead of going out once in a while - make sure to set plans for *when* you'll talk next and what your plans are for the next day, she'll want to be as well-informed as she is now regarding daily activities. Keeping her well-informed will do much for reassuring her you still care about her deeply. And of course, make sure to stay well-informed and interested on her activities at home.
posted by lizbunny at 1:40 PM on April 7, 2010
Disclaimer: I understand she said it wasn't about the wedding. And I understand that a month isn't normally a very long time and it's perfectly reasonable for couples to have their own individual adventures. However, having recently went through the wedding hijinks myself (a very small, rather low key wedding at that), I've got to say it can be INSANELY stressful and hectic and I'd imagine quite lonely if you were making all the plans, the late nights, the arrangements, the payments, the phone calls, the people herding, and all without the person you want to share it with.
Fact is, the months leading up to a wedding can be very stressful and trying on a couple to begin with, I'd imagine a long-distance furlough would make that even harder. If she honestly doesn't care about the timing with the wedding and you can work through the long-distance stuff, work it out with her if you can because it is a great opportunity. However, if your absense would only make things harder on her and leave her feeling unsupported during a very stressful period of both your lives...think about it.
Plan a shorter trip to London for the honeymoon or first anniversary. I guarantee it will be more memorable and special to both of you if it's a trip together rather than That Thing(tm) that happened before the wedding.
posted by ninjakins at 1:43 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Fact is, the months leading up to a wedding can be very stressful and trying on a couple to begin with, I'd imagine a long-distance furlough would make that even harder. If she honestly doesn't care about the timing with the wedding and you can work through the long-distance stuff, work it out with her if you can because it is a great opportunity. However, if your absense would only make things harder on her and leave her feeling unsupported during a very stressful period of both your lives...think about it.
Plan a shorter trip to London for the honeymoon or first anniversary. I guarantee it will be more memorable and special to both of you if it's a trip together rather than That Thing(tm) that happened before the wedding.
posted by ninjakins at 1:43 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Different people have different levels of "clinginess." That's alright. It doesn't necessarily have to be some sort of red flag in a relationship. It's not unreasonable for your soon-to-be-wife to feel like a month apart before the wedding is a scary idea, or for you to want that month either. She seems to recognize that it's an incredibly cool opportunity. But she's concerned about you spending time away from her, and perhaps you not including any concern of your own about that. Don't disregard how much your actual, physical presence can help in the stress of wedding preparations. Emails and phone conversations can only do so much, when you're sleeping by yourself for a month worrying about all the details in your head. It's different, and it's often a lot harder.
Speaking as someone who is in an LDR and finally getting married, please try to meet her in the middle somewhere. If you're getting an awesome vacation and she only gets to miss you, unexpectedly at that, I'm willing to bet it's going to build resentment. Compromise somehow, even if it can only be a little. Ask her how to make the distance and time easier to deal with, and offer some suggestions yourself. This is going to be a real partnership, and if someone is unhappy, it would be wise to address those (actual) concerns.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 1:45 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Speaking as someone who is in an LDR and finally getting married, please try to meet her in the middle somewhere. If you're getting an awesome vacation and she only gets to miss you, unexpectedly at that, I'm willing to bet it's going to build resentment. Compromise somehow, even if it can only be a little. Ask her how to make the distance and time easier to deal with, and offer some suggestions yourself. This is going to be a real partnership, and if someone is unhappy, it would be wise to address those (actual) concerns.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 1:45 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
The wedding aside: not only are you going to be away for a month, but you are going to be away for a month on -- as you put it -- your 'dream vacay'. I imagine that might be something she would want to be a part of.
My boyfriend [currently long-distance, by the way] may have the opportunity to travel to Europe for work this summer. I'm ambivalent about it, even though it's not the fact that we'd be apart that's getting to me, because hey, we'd be apart anyway. I'm super excited for the whole going-to-Europe-on-the-company's-dime part of it -- it one is presented with the opportunity, naturally you'd be a fool to pass it up. But at the same time, well, damn. Selfishly, I want to be someone that he wants to take that trip with. Think of the awesome time you're going to have in England. Now think about coming home, telling those stories to your SO, and picture how bummed out she's going to feel that she won't have a part in any of those stories.
posted by alynnk at 1:46 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
My boyfriend [currently long-distance, by the way] may have the opportunity to travel to Europe for work this summer. I'm ambivalent about it, even though it's not the fact that we'd be apart that's getting to me, because hey, we'd be apart anyway. I'm super excited for the whole going-to-Europe-on-the-company's-dime part of it -- it one is presented with the opportunity, naturally you'd be a fool to pass it up. But at the same time, well, damn. Selfishly, I want to be someone that he wants to take that trip with. Think of the awesome time you're going to have in England. Now think about coming home, telling those stories to your SO, and picture how bummed out she's going to feel that she won't have a part in any of those stories.
posted by alynnk at 1:46 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think you should give her a little time to process the thought of this before you come in, guns blazing, with all the reasons why it's not selfish for you to go. (Not to say you would, just noting that it would be an easy dynamic to fall into and one you want to avoid.)
I mean, you told her this over the phone and asked for an immediate reaction? I'm not totally surprised that her first reaction was a negative one, any more than I'm surprised that your first reaction when you heard about the opportunity was a positive one. It's pretty natural to immediately jump to "how does this affect me" and while being apart for a month a bit before the wedding isn't the worst thing that could happen to her, I can't imagine it's on her top 10 list of things she's hoping for, ya know? (If it were, then you'd really have a problem.) Sometimes it just takes a bit to get used to an idea, to think about it a bit, and to back down from your immediate reaction and really think something through without the emotional reaction getting in the way. The danger here is that you come home and start arguing your position, bolstered by all the pros and cons that people in AskMe throw out, and then predictably both of you dig in based on your first reactions rather than having some time to really think about it and decide whether the opportunity is so great for you that it's worth the inconvenience and bother to her.
If it were me, I think my next step would be to e-mail my fiancee and say, "Hey, sorry to blindside you with this, especially on the phone--I know it was unexpected. I don't need to let my work know until next week [oh man I hope your work doesn't want an immediate answer here!], let's sit on it a bit and think about whether there is any way to make it work--and if there's not, then I'm okay with that too."
posted by iminurmefi at 1:46 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I mean, you told her this over the phone and asked for an immediate reaction? I'm not totally surprised that her first reaction was a negative one, any more than I'm surprised that your first reaction when you heard about the opportunity was a positive one. It's pretty natural to immediately jump to "how does this affect me" and while being apart for a month a bit before the wedding isn't the worst thing that could happen to her, I can't imagine it's on her top 10 list of things she's hoping for, ya know? (If it were, then you'd really have a problem.) Sometimes it just takes a bit to get used to an idea, to think about it a bit, and to back down from your immediate reaction and really think something through without the emotional reaction getting in the way. The danger here is that you come home and start arguing your position, bolstered by all the pros and cons that people in AskMe throw out, and then predictably both of you dig in based on your first reactions rather than having some time to really think about it and decide whether the opportunity is so great for you that it's worth the inconvenience and bother to her.
If it were me, I think my next step would be to e-mail my fiancee and say, "Hey, sorry to blindside you with this, especially on the phone--I know it was unexpected. I don't need to let my work know until next week [oh man I hope your work doesn't want an immediate answer here!], let's sit on it a bit and think about whether there is any way to make it work--and if there's not, then I'm okay with that too."
posted by iminurmefi at 1:46 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
The months leading up to a wedding tend to be stressful and emotional. It's the countdown to a "before and after," a defining moment in your lives--not because the wedding is the happiest day of your life, but because weddings are held to mark the occasion of a couple committing to each other for life. It's a huge step.
Personally, I would not mind if my husband took a month-long trip now, but I can imagine it being a much more emotionally weighty thing to consider being apart for a month very shortly before our wedding. So, I don't think that this particular situation can definitively point to "clinginess" or another bad quality in your fiancee. Moreover, if this situation has come up now with your employer, might there not be a similar opportunity in the future? Perhaps it would be worthwhile to talk to your fiancee about how she'd feel about your looking out for future international business trips after the wedding. If she truly can't fathom being apart for a month ever, I suppose that could be a bad sign, but her feelings now seem pretty natural to me (even if it's also natural to be excited about the possibility of a month in London).
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:49 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Personally, I would not mind if my husband took a month-long trip now, but I can imagine it being a much more emotionally weighty thing to consider being apart for a month very shortly before our wedding. So, I don't think that this particular situation can definitively point to "clinginess" or another bad quality in your fiancee. Moreover, if this situation has come up now with your employer, might there not be a similar opportunity in the future? Perhaps it would be worthwhile to talk to your fiancee about how she'd feel about your looking out for future international business trips after the wedding. If she truly can't fathom being apart for a month ever, I suppose that could be a bad sign, but her feelings now seem pretty natural to me (even if it's also natural to be excited about the possibility of a month in London).
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:49 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
However, the months of planning leading up to my wedding were Big Fun, and had so many awesome, touching couple moments attached to them that I have to recommend sticking around.
Not my experience at all. In fact, I ditched the wedding planning for a weekend because it got incredibly stressful, and I was the *bride*. So my Mom took over for a couple days so that I could relax with my spouse-to-be, who didn't do any of the planning at all, by his choice. And it all worked out just fine.
This issue is between the two of you, and as you said you just called her to let her know and she wasn't keen on the idea. You have time to talk about it when you get off of work. This was just her initial reaction.
You have the rest of your lives together. I think that if she knows how important to you this is, she will let you go. And I also wonder how important her job is to her, because if I had the chance I'd ditch the teaching gig and go with you. But since that's not something she can get behind, reassure her that you will be accessible by phone or online, make sure you set up "dates" to communicate, and then GO. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for you. And be understanding when she gets lonely and calls you in the middle of the night, because a month *is* a long time.
posted by misha at 1:49 PM on April 7, 2010
Not my experience at all. In fact, I ditched the wedding planning for a weekend because it got incredibly stressful, and I was the *bride*. So my Mom took over for a couple days so that I could relax with my spouse-to-be, who didn't do any of the planning at all, by his choice. And it all worked out just fine.
This issue is between the two of you, and as you said you just called her to let her know and she wasn't keen on the idea. You have time to talk about it when you get off of work. This was just her initial reaction.
You have the rest of your lives together. I think that if she knows how important to you this is, she will let you go. And I also wonder how important her job is to her, because if I had the chance I'd ditch the teaching gig and go with you. But since that's not something she can get behind, reassure her that you will be accessible by phone or online, make sure you set up "dates" to communicate, and then GO. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for you. And be understanding when she gets lonely and calls you in the middle of the night, because a month *is* a long time.
posted by misha at 1:49 PM on April 7, 2010
It sounds like you just found out about this opportunity today? Give her time. Her initial reaction may not be her final reaction.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:50 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:50 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
but I just don't feel like that's a very long time to be away
but a month is a month. It's not that long.
a month apart just doesn't seem like a big deal to me in the face of this kind of opportunity.
I'm asking this question because I WANT to be considerate of her feelings and her needs.
Based on your attitude above you don't. You're clearly signaling "This is awesome, it's not long, why are giving me shit about this, it's so awesome, jeeze it's not the long, you have friends and stuff!"
Seriously, come down off the understand high you're about getting this news and really listen to what she's saying and feeling.
Fly her out for the weekend, so you two can return together, that way, it's small trip ya'll took, instead of OMG apart for a month.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
but a month is a month. It's not that long.
a month apart just doesn't seem like a big deal to me in the face of this kind of opportunity.
I'm asking this question because I WANT to be considerate of her feelings and her needs.
Based on your attitude above you don't. You're clearly signaling "This is awesome, it's not long, why are giving me shit about this, it's so awesome, jeeze it's not the long, you have friends and stuff!"
Seriously, come down off the understand high you're about getting this news and really listen to what she's saying and feeling.
Fly her out for the weekend, so you two can return together, that way, it's small trip ya'll took, instead of OMG apart for a month.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Her initial reaction may not be her final reaction.
Not to mention, *your* initial reaction might not be the final one. There's been more than one time in my life where I've heard about what seemed like a perfect opportunity but later--after finding out more details--it became clear that it wasn't something I was interested in after all.
Right now all you can think about is FREE! and EUROPE! and VACATION! but unless your workplace is, like, the coolest place in the world, there's probably some aspects of this that are less-awesome than you yet realize. Traveling for work is a cool way to see awesome cities, but it can also be really tiring, a lot of times you stay in places that aren't really that nice or that centrally located, you're expected to work on nights and weekends, and so on. If you just found out about this today, you definitely need more information before you decide it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that is worth a huge fight with your girlfriend.
posted by iminurmefi at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not to mention, *your* initial reaction might not be the final one. There's been more than one time in my life where I've heard about what seemed like a perfect opportunity but later--after finding out more details--it became clear that it wasn't something I was interested in after all.
Right now all you can think about is FREE! and EUROPE! and VACATION! but unless your workplace is, like, the coolest place in the world, there's probably some aspects of this that are less-awesome than you yet realize. Traveling for work is a cool way to see awesome cities, but it can also be really tiring, a lot of times you stay in places that aren't really that nice or that centrally located, you're expected to work on nights and weekends, and so on. If you just found out about this today, you definitely need more information before you decide it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that is worth a huge fight with your girlfriend.
posted by iminurmefi at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
iminurmefi: "The danger here is that you come home and start arguing your position, bolstered by all the pros and cons that people in AskMe throw out, and then predictably both of you dig in based on your first reactions rather than having some time to really think about it and decide whether the opportunity is so great for you that it's worth the inconvenience and bother to her."
Definitely this, too. This is super important. The trip is an exciting thing to be offered, but you might benefit from calming down and really hearing her out (face to face, not on the phone) before you start arguing your case.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 1:59 PM on April 7, 2010
Definitely this, too. This is super important. The trip is an exciting thing to be offered, but you might benefit from calming down and really hearing her out (face to face, not on the phone) before you start arguing your case.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 1:59 PM on April 7, 2010
The wedding aside: not only are you going to be away for a month, but you are going to be away for a month on -- as you put it -- your 'dream vacay'. I imagine that might be something she would want to be a part of.
That was my reaction, too. If it's a work trip, and you're without your fiancée, how could this be your dream vacation? And if it is, perhaps that's more of a warning sign to her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:00 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
That was my reaction, too. If it's a work trip, and you're without your fiancée, how could this be your dream vacation? And if it is, perhaps that's more of a warning sign to her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:00 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
London's not going anywhere but if you miss shared experiences (and you will be missing the shared stress and chaos and excitement leading up to your wedding) you will never, ever get it back.
Everything that you go through together prepares you for the next thing you go through together, and the difficulty level increases, so you need the practice.
Don't go to London.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:08 PM on April 7, 2010 [10 favorites]
Everything that you go through together prepares you for the next thing you go through together, and the difficulty level increases, so you need the practice.
Don't go to London.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:08 PM on April 7, 2010 [10 favorites]
my goodness. you are going to be together for the rest of your lives. go. if she continues to be a pain about it. postpone or cancel the wedding. it's just a harbinger of things to come.
posted by elle.jeezy at 2:10 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by elle.jeezy at 2:10 PM on April 7, 2010
it's just a harbinger of things to come.
I'd say the same thing to her.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:11 PM on April 7, 2010 [15 favorites]
I'd say the same thing to her.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:11 PM on April 7, 2010 [15 favorites]
You will regret this if you don't go, and forever feel at least some small amount of resentment toward her if you don't.
Do it!
posted by eas98 at 2:13 PM on April 7, 2010
Do it!
posted by eas98 at 2:13 PM on April 7, 2010
Suggesting that your fiance(e) is a "pain" for voicing concern about being apart for a month, is to be rather unnecessarily cruel. Especially if this was brought up with a phone call, and demanded an immediate response. Not everyone is willing to be apart for lengthy amounts of time without much warning, and that's neither unnatural or not okay.
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 2:14 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 2:14 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Nthing that it sounds to me like you've already made a decision and want to use Askme to justify it.
Go to England another time with her. A month is a very long time when your fiance is on another continent for a "dream vacay" that you can't be a part of.
posted by Lobster Garden at 2:15 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Go to England another time with her. A month is a very long time when your fiance is on another continent for a "dream vacay" that you can't be a part of.
posted by Lobster Garden at 2:15 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Free trip to London?? I'd probably cancel the wedding if my fiancé responded like that. "Dream vacation" might be excessive, but I don't see the business part as necessarily a bad thing--for me, an important part of travel abroad is interacting with the locals and learn how people live their lives in other parts of the world, and depending on your job it may be a great way to do so.
Though I am an independent person who is attracted to independent people, and wish for my significant other to have exciting and interesting experiences whether I'm present or not. And expect the same. YMMV!
posted by little e at 2:17 PM on April 7, 2010
Though I am an independent person who is attracted to independent people, and wish for my significant other to have exciting and interesting experiences whether I'm present or not. And expect the same. YMMV!
posted by little e at 2:17 PM on April 7, 2010
You are being played.
Your company is not about to send you on a dream vacation to London. They are going to send you to London to work your ass off. They are going to fit in as much overtime as they can get away with, because four weeks in London is cheaper than six or eight weeks in London. You will not be helping with the wedding, you will barely be co-ordinating Skype messages. I spent eighteen months traveling across the country. I can barely tell you anything about the sights, but I could write a thesis on the differences between Embassy Suites in various states.
The only bright spot was the frequent flier miles, which paid for two week European vacation at the end of it.
You are two months away from getting married. Apologize to your boss, and explain that this is bigger than your job.
posted by politikitty at 2:23 PM on April 7, 2010 [23 favorites]
Your company is not about to send you on a dream vacation to London. They are going to send you to London to work your ass off. They are going to fit in as much overtime as they can get away with, because four weeks in London is cheaper than six or eight weeks in London. You will not be helping with the wedding, you will barely be co-ordinating Skype messages. I spent eighteen months traveling across the country. I can barely tell you anything about the sights, but I could write a thesis on the differences between Embassy Suites in various states.
The only bright spot was the frequent flier miles, which paid for two week European vacation at the end of it.
You are two months away from getting married. Apologize to your boss, and explain that this is bigger than your job.
posted by politikitty at 2:23 PM on April 7, 2010 [23 favorites]
I have been away from my partner for a month at a time several times in our 17-year relationship. I could understand if she were concerned about wedding planning, but just being apart? Doesn't make that much sense to me--it's one month out of the whole rest of your lives, and at a time in history when staying in close contact has never been easier. I don't think it's selfish of you to want to go, and (I am not saying this is how you should feel, only how I would) a reaction like hers would be a red flag to me.
posted by not that girl at 2:26 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by not that girl at 2:26 PM on April 7, 2010
Free trip to London?? I'd probably cancel the wedding if my fiancé responded like that.
No, you wouldn't. People aren't perfect and they aren't disaposable just because they don't see your POV 100% of the time.
OP, Your fiancee loves you and is thinking about how much she's going to miss you while you're gone, and she's wondering why you won't miss her as much as she'd miss you.
Honestly, if you're working and you guys have your finances in order, you can save up for a month's trip to England. It isn't that expensive to go there and, having lived there, it isn't like visiting Uganda or someplace totally different.
I would be really hurt if my partner went off to have a fantastic time by himself. I would rather share. It seems kind of selfish for you to go and have fun when she doesn't have the same opportunity. Sharing is caring and you ought to want to share if you're getting married. Just like when you're in a family and you have to share things with your siblings because your mom says to. You can't just go hoard all the chocolate because it has your name on it.
posted by anniecat at 2:28 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
No, you wouldn't. People aren't perfect and they aren't disaposable just because they don't see your POV 100% of the time.
OP, Your fiancee loves you and is thinking about how much she's going to miss you while you're gone, and she's wondering why you won't miss her as much as she'd miss you.
Honestly, if you're working and you guys have your finances in order, you can save up for a month's trip to England. It isn't that expensive to go there and, having lived there, it isn't like visiting Uganda or someplace totally different.
I would be really hurt if my partner went off to have a fantastic time by himself. I would rather share. It seems kind of selfish for you to go and have fun when she doesn't have the same opportunity. Sharing is caring and you ought to want to share if you're getting married. Just like when you're in a family and you have to share things with your siblings because your mom says to. You can't just go hoard all the chocolate because it has your name on it.
posted by anniecat at 2:28 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Of course you want to go, it's an awesome opportunity. But I think that you are letting your excitement about this opportunity influence your reaction to your girlfriend's issue with this trip.
1.) Is it selfish of me to want to go?
Well, yes, it is selfish of you to want to go. It's an opportunity that is available only to you - you really want to go, despite how your fiancee feels about it - by definition, this is selfish.
2.) I'm really trying to out of my way to be sensitive to her feelings, but I really want to do this. If it's not selfish of me to want to go, how hard should I fight for this?
There is no "fight for this." Either you go or you do not. You need to realize that no matter what argument you use to get your fiancee to say it's alright, she'll only be saying that it's alright. It's not going to be ok with her - ever.
I think it's fair for me to disclose that my husband had a similar opportunity during our first year of marriage (working in China). Our employer (we worked at the same small company) said that I would also be able to go, and then dropped that offer when he agreed to the trip. I was incensed, and hurt, and asked my husband to demand that I be included in this trip or refuse to go (other married couples had gone together). Nope. He went. Even though we continued to be married for 9 years after that, and have been divorced for 5 more, I'm still very hurt by his choice to take that trip.
You need to realize that while you are off for a month having a great time, your fiancee is going to be at home, missing you, feeling left out and planning your wedding. You may have a month of fun - but your girlfriend absolutely will not - and she will remember this evidence of your priorities forever.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:29 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
1.) Is it selfish of me to want to go?
Well, yes, it is selfish of you to want to go. It's an opportunity that is available only to you - you really want to go, despite how your fiancee feels about it - by definition, this is selfish.
2.) I'm really trying to out of my way to be sensitive to her feelings, but I really want to do this. If it's not selfish of me to want to go, how hard should I fight for this?
There is no "fight for this." Either you go or you do not. You need to realize that no matter what argument you use to get your fiancee to say it's alright, she'll only be saying that it's alright. It's not going to be ok with her - ever.
I think it's fair for me to disclose that my husband had a similar opportunity during our first year of marriage (working in China). Our employer (we worked at the same small company) said that I would also be able to go, and then dropped that offer when he agreed to the trip. I was incensed, and hurt, and asked my husband to demand that I be included in this trip or refuse to go (other married couples had gone together). Nope. He went. Even though we continued to be married for 9 years after that, and have been divorced for 5 more, I'm still very hurt by his choice to take that trip.
You need to realize that while you are off for a month having a great time, your fiancee is going to be at home, missing you, feeling left out and planning your wedding. You may have a month of fun - but your girlfriend absolutely will not - and she will remember this evidence of your priorities forever.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:29 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
...I'd also like to add, that if my husband had refused the trip if I couldn't go - I would also have remembered that forever, and felt far more appreciated than I could ever express.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:32 PM on April 7, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:32 PM on April 7, 2010 [9 favorites]
She's not being clingy. She's in love. With you. Very in love, and still in that in-love-birds-singing-we're-getting-married part of your relationship. You're talking about missing a month of this amazing time with her.
This time in your life only comes once. We hope.
Traveling alone is an awesome thing, too -- definitely do it sometime, preferably before you have children. It's not quite the same when you're working, but it would still be cool. However, you can plan it for later and set your own agenda then.
posted by amtho at 2:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
This time in your life only comes once. We hope.
Traveling alone is an awesome thing, too -- definitely do it sometime, preferably before you have children. It's not quite the same when you're working, but it would still be cool. However, you can plan it for later and set your own agenda then.
posted by amtho at 2:34 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Every relationship is different and has different limits and parameters.
But all I can think of is what a wonderful wedding gift to your wife it would be to turn down this opportunity, no matter how great it would be for you as an individual, to give her the message right off the bat as you begin married life together that she's the most important thing in your life.
posted by Jaybo at 2:39 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
But all I can think of is what a wonderful wedding gift to your wife it would be to turn down this opportunity, no matter how great it would be for you as an individual, to give her the message right off the bat as you begin married life together that she's the most important thing in your life.
posted by Jaybo at 2:39 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Obviously this is a really personal question. When I first read the question my thought was that was of course you should go. I am very confused by some of the postings above. I guess I married the right person. :-)
The answer is there's really no right answer here. Go home and talk to your wife and make sure you both understand each other's take. Talk it out, and then at the end you should both think about it.
Welcome to marriage - it's often about sacrifice.
posted by xammerboy at 2:41 PM on April 7, 2010
The answer is there's really no right answer here. Go home and talk to your wife and make sure you both understand each other's take. Talk it out, and then at the end you should both think about it.
Welcome to marriage - it's often about sacrifice.
posted by xammerboy at 2:41 PM on April 7, 2010
You are being played. Your company is not about to send you on a dream vacation to London. They are going to send you to London to work your ass off.
Exactly. Unclear why you're referring to this as a "vacation" at all. You will be working, probably working like a dog.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:50 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Exactly. Unclear why you're referring to this as a "vacation" at all. You will be working, probably working like a dog.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:50 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
I don't know your fiancee or the specifics of your circumstances or the level of stress connected with planning your wedding. I don't know whether or not she feels like she's been shouldering more planning than she wants to. But you might want to consider that you saying "Hey, I have a chance to go on the trip of a lifetime!" feels to her like you're saying "Hey, I have a chance to go on the trip of a lifetime during which I get to avoid all the crap surrounding planning a wedding! And you get to stay home and deal with it yourself!"
Just a thought.
posted by corey flood at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
Just a thought.
posted by corey flood at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
I would also like to offer one additional word of warning.
What happens if this project doesn't finish in time? Would your employer be able to switch you out with someone else so that you could get home for your wedding? How would that reflect on you at work for not considering that contingency when accepting the project?
posted by politikitty at 3:01 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
What happens if this project doesn't finish in time? Would your employer be able to switch you out with someone else so that you could get home for your wedding? How would that reflect on you at work for not considering that contingency when accepting the project?
posted by politikitty at 3:01 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Well, I don't know what you do for a living, but when you say "...my work has already agreed with the client that it would be may", I thought about my own experience with international business travel. It sounds really awesome until you actually have to do it. I don't think you are getting a "vacation", rather, as others upthread have noted, you will be working so much that you barely have time to eat at that really cute place you've been eying. I don't really know the true nature of your workload while you're in London, but if a client sends you on an international, month-long trip, they are paying for you to be there, not to have the most awesome time ever. So, I would think about that. I don't think you're selfish, just romanticizing this trip.
I would also think about the fact that you called your fiance at work and sprung this on her and have not had the full conversation you probably will be having later this evening.
posted by waitangi at 3:38 PM on April 7, 2010
I would also think about the fact that you called your fiance at work and sprung this on her and have not had the full conversation you probably will be having later this evening.
posted by waitangi at 3:38 PM on April 7, 2010
So there's a lot of conflicting advice and comments here, and because of that I thought it only fair to add another uninvolved voice to the mix.
If I were you, I'd honestly have a hard time passing this up.
I'm on your side with the whole a month is not a long time, especially in comparison with forever. But I've heard that planes go both ways, and if she can't come to London for a long weekend, possibly you could make taking the job contingent on one long weekend where the company flies you home for 5 days or so in the middle of the month.
And sorry, but if my husband (we've been married since last July) was offered this kind of opportunity and he turned it down as a gift to me, I'd feel that was a little smug and a little bit of a "look, I'm so self sacrificing for you, and I'm going to remember this later and YOU'LL OWE ME." kind of trick. If he turned it down for his own reasons, then fine.
At the end of the day it's an opportunity that you can either take or not take. You'll see other - but different - opportunities throughout the rest of your life where you'll have to decide one way or another in a similarly complicated situation.
posted by kirstk at 3:44 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
If I were you, I'd honestly have a hard time passing this up.
I'm on your side with the whole a month is not a long time, especially in comparison with forever. But I've heard that planes go both ways, and if she can't come to London for a long weekend, possibly you could make taking the job contingent on one long weekend where the company flies you home for 5 days or so in the middle of the month.
And sorry, but if my husband (we've been married since last July) was offered this kind of opportunity and he turned it down as a gift to me, I'd feel that was a little smug and a little bit of a "look, I'm so self sacrificing for you, and I'm going to remember this later and YOU'LL OWE ME." kind of trick. If he turned it down for his own reasons, then fine.
At the end of the day it's an opportunity that you can either take or not take. You'll see other - but different - opportunities throughout the rest of your life where you'll have to decide one way or another in a similarly complicated situation.
posted by kirstk at 3:44 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is going or not going on this trip going to materially affect your advancement / promotion / salary increases in the future? This might be an angle to present to her. If it's not just fun, but vital for your career, maybe she would be able to see it more from your point of view.
Personally, I think she's being clingy. And I don't get all the people urging the asker to give up what he wants for what she wants, just because. Why isn't she willing to give up what she wants for his sake? I think the assumption that he has to sacrifice but she shouldn't have to, is strange and I can't tell what it's based on.
Imagine your wedding day. Now imagine someone asking you, on your wedding day, whether your wife's feelings are more important to you than your own. Imagine them asking your wife the same question. What do you hope the answer to that question will be?
If his fiancee prevents him from going based on her neediness, then she can't answer truthfully that she cares more about his feelings than her own. This little what-if scenario necessarily paints one of them as an asshole, because he has to either go or not go.
I think you should be able to go, but that she will guilt you into not going. And if you do somehow decide to go anyway, she may turn into Princess Poutypants about it and she will never forgive you. It will be very tense around the time of your wedding.
I don't think you can win this one, from what you've said. Also... How old is she? She may not be emotionally mature enough to handle being on her own while you get something nice that she's not a part of.
posted by marble at 3:55 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Personally, I think she's being clingy. And I don't get all the people urging the asker to give up what he wants for what she wants, just because. Why isn't she willing to give up what she wants for his sake? I think the assumption that he has to sacrifice but she shouldn't have to, is strange and I can't tell what it's based on.
Imagine your wedding day. Now imagine someone asking you, on your wedding day, whether your wife's feelings are more important to you than your own. Imagine them asking your wife the same question. What do you hope the answer to that question will be?
If his fiancee prevents him from going based on her neediness, then she can't answer truthfully that she cares more about his feelings than her own. This little what-if scenario necessarily paints one of them as an asshole, because he has to either go or not go.
I think you should be able to go, but that she will guilt you into not going. And if you do somehow decide to go anyway, she may turn into Princess Poutypants about it and she will never forgive you. It will be very tense around the time of your wedding.
I don't think you can win this one, from what you've said. Also... How old is she? She may not be emotionally mature enough to handle being on her own while you get something nice that she's not a part of.
posted by marble at 3:55 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
"How old is she?"
OP, please do not take this same condescending attitude toward your fiance. Just because her feelings can be hurt by your going away does not make her "emotionally immature" any more than your insistence on going does. Reducing her to "Princess Poutypants" invalidates her perspective. I'm not saying you are acting condescendingly now, I'm just trying to warn you against adopting Marble's attitude.
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
OP, please do not take this same condescending attitude toward your fiance. Just because her feelings can be hurt by your going away does not make her "emotionally immature" any more than your insistence on going does. Reducing her to "Princess Poutypants" invalidates her perspective. I'm not saying you are acting condescendingly now, I'm just trying to warn you against adopting Marble's attitude.
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
...anymore than your insistence on going makes you emotionally immature, I meant.
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:07 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:07 PM on April 7, 2010
Sorry but I think Marble is asking some useful questions. Yes, being in a marriage means being able to compromise - A LOT - but come on, can't he just ask why the OP is the one that has to 100% compromise on this rather than the other way around?
Further, I would also say that ANYONE on this thread that has asked a question has a good point. There are many, many angles in this proposed situation. There are many, many things to consider or evaluate. Let's not squash questions just because we can.
(Although, having said all that, I think asking for the OP's fiancee's age is neither here nor there.)
posted by kirstk at 4:11 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Further, I would also say that ANYONE on this thread that has asked a question has a good point. There are many, many angles in this proposed situation. There are many, many things to consider or evaluate. Let's not squash questions just because we can.
(Although, having said all that, I think asking for the OP's fiancee's age is neither here nor there.)
posted by kirstk at 4:11 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: comment removed "she is proably thinking about leaving you" comments pretty shitty and not helpful. Go to MetaTalk if you just need to get your snark on.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:18 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:18 PM on April 7, 2010
Is a business trip really something you want so badly that you are willing to darken the memory of the wedding and the months leading up to it?
Dude, it's a business trip. Unless you're monstrously selfish and callous, you will probably hate yourself a little bit, for the rest of your life, for taking that trip.
Don't take the trip. Not only for her, but also for yourself --- so you can respect yourself for giving up something small that was good for you alone, for something much bigger that is good for both of you.
posted by jayder at 4:23 PM on April 7, 2010
Dude, it's a business trip. Unless you're monstrously selfish and callous, you will probably hate yourself a little bit, for the rest of your life, for taking that trip.
Don't take the trip. Not only for her, but also for yourself --- so you can respect yourself for giving up something small that was good for you alone, for something much bigger that is good for both of you.
posted by jayder at 4:23 PM on April 7, 2010
come on, can't he just ask why the OP is the one that has to 100% compromise on this rather than the other way around?
Because compromise isn't an even-steven thing, where it's 50/50. Compromise requires taking the long view, and in the long view a trip to London isn't that big a deal. It's not the moon. It's London. They probably have Kentucky Fried Chicken.
On the other hand, their wedding is a once in a lifetime event, as is planning for it, and all of the headaches and nervousness that surround it.
Taking off seems an awful lot like opting out, and you don't want to start off a lifetime with someone opting out.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:25 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Because compromise isn't an even-steven thing, where it's 50/50. Compromise requires taking the long view, and in the long view a trip to London isn't that big a deal. It's not the moon. It's London. They probably have Kentucky Fried Chicken.
On the other hand, their wedding is a once in a lifetime event, as is planning for it, and all of the headaches and nervousness that surround it.
Taking off seems an awful lot like opting out, and you don't want to start off a lifetime with someone opting out.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:25 PM on April 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
At the same time, I've never been to England, and when is the next time I will be getting paid to hang out in another country?
And sorry, but this just doesn't seem like such a GREAT opportunity that it's worth spending a month apart from your soon-to-be-wife. London is great, but it's not worth what you're risking here, just to go there on a business trip.
I think you need to recalibrate, a bit, how you define "great opportunity." A mere work trip, for a month, is not a career-making thing.
posted by jayder at 4:27 PM on April 7, 2010
And sorry, but this just doesn't seem like such a GREAT opportunity that it's worth spending a month apart from your soon-to-be-wife. London is great, but it's not worth what you're risking here, just to go there on a business trip.
I think you need to recalibrate, a bit, how you define "great opportunity." A mere work trip, for a month, is not a career-making thing.
posted by jayder at 4:27 PM on April 7, 2010
Taking off seems an awful lot like opting out, and you don't want to start off a lifetime with someone opting out.
Sorry, but this seems a little presumptuous to me.
It sounds more like you don't want to start off a lifetime with someone opting out, whereas I would not see it as someone opting out in the first place.
With the compromise bit, my point was more, I don't think it's harmful to ask why the OP would be the one that compromises rather than ask why can't we consider that he fiancee should compromise her point. - I hope that made sense?
posted by kirstk at 4:29 PM on April 7, 2010
Sorry, but this seems a little presumptuous to me.
It sounds more like you don't want to start off a lifetime with someone opting out, whereas I would not see it as someone opting out in the first place.
With the compromise bit, my point was more, I don't think it's harmful to ask why the OP would be the one that compromises rather than ask why can't we consider that he fiancee should compromise her point. - I hope that made sense?
posted by kirstk at 4:29 PM on April 7, 2010
Free trip to London?? I'd probably cancel the wedding if my fiancé responded like that.
No, you wouldn't. People aren't perfect and they aren't disaposable just because they don't see your POV 100% of the time.
Yes, I would. Some people need more freedom. Some people don't. There are plenty of disagreements I'd cheerfully overlook, but I think this is an issue on which it's extremely important for people to be at least *reasonably* compatible.
posted by little e at 4:33 PM on April 7, 2010
No, you wouldn't. People aren't perfect and they aren't disaposable just because they don't see your POV 100% of the time.
Yes, I would. Some people need more freedom. Some people don't. There are plenty of disagreements I'd cheerfully overlook, but I think this is an issue on which it's extremely important for people to be at least *reasonably* compatible.
posted by little e at 4:33 PM on April 7, 2010
1) No.
2)Hard.
Honestly, this is an amazing opportunity. And as someone previously stated, you're getting married. It's not like you're just dating. You're obviously devoted to one another. Not to mention that if you're involved with a company that's going to pay for a vacation like this, I can't imagine this is a one-time thing. She's going to have to get used to you going away. It seems like your job will amplify that chance. She can't keep you chained down forever.
Now that we've decided that you not going is ridiculous, let's explore some options that would make it easier on your fiance.
1)let her come a weekend in the middle of the month. Break up your time a bit
2)Don't stay the whole month. Stay 3 weeks, 18 days, something is better than nothing. And if it'll mean she'll let you go, cutting down the trip is worth it.
3)Both, if she's really stubborn.
posted by shesaysgo at 4:54 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
2)Hard.
Honestly, this is an amazing opportunity. And as someone previously stated, you're getting married. It's not like you're just dating. You're obviously devoted to one another. Not to mention that if you're involved with a company that's going to pay for a vacation like this, I can't imagine this is a one-time thing. She's going to have to get used to you going away. It seems like your job will amplify that chance. She can't keep you chained down forever.
Now that we've decided that you not going is ridiculous, let's explore some options that would make it easier on your fiance.
1)let her come a weekend in the middle of the month. Break up your time a bit
2)Don't stay the whole month. Stay 3 weeks, 18 days, something is better than nothing. And if it'll mean she'll let you go, cutting down the trip is worth it.
3)Both, if she's really stubborn.
posted by shesaysgo at 4:54 PM on April 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a person who got married 5 days ago and whose company was talking about sending me to London for a prolonged trip a few months back, I feel like I might have some insight on the subject.
It would be one thing if you were to be away for a month while she stayed behind working. That is a situation where emails, webcams, and her coming out for a few days can allow you both to spend time together and for you to explore this great opportunity. If it was as simple as that, I'd say you should go.
But it's not.
The problem is that you are planning a wedding and this would take you out at one of the most critical times. There is a lot that goes into planning a wedding. I only had 24 guests and it was a big undertaking. There are decisions that have to be made beyond playlists and online research. So you'll be leaving her to have your dream vacay while she is left mostly by herself to plan your wedding.
Not to mention that the lead up to your wedding is full of experiences, some of them wonderful, some of them horrible, but all of which will bring you closer to your partner. The memories you'll have of your wedding won't just be for eight hours on that day. It's from all the little moments and choices that the two of you made together. Not over the web, but actually together.
For the rest of your lives together she will know that when you two had a big challenge and you were offered something fun, just for you, you decided to bail out on most of the challenging work and enjoy yourself.
posted by jaybeans at 5:31 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
It would be one thing if you were to be away for a month while she stayed behind working. That is a situation where emails, webcams, and her coming out for a few days can allow you both to spend time together and for you to explore this great opportunity. If it was as simple as that, I'd say you should go.
But it's not.
The problem is that you are planning a wedding and this would take you out at one of the most critical times. There is a lot that goes into planning a wedding. I only had 24 guests and it was a big undertaking. There are decisions that have to be made beyond playlists and online research. So you'll be leaving her to have your dream vacay while she is left mostly by herself to plan your wedding.
Not to mention that the lead up to your wedding is full of experiences, some of them wonderful, some of them horrible, but all of which will bring you closer to your partner. The memories you'll have of your wedding won't just be for eight hours on that day. It's from all the little moments and choices that the two of you made together. Not over the web, but actually together.
For the rest of your lives together she will know that when you two had a big challenge and you were offered something fun, just for you, you decided to bail out on most of the challenging work and enjoy yourself.
posted by jaybeans at 5:31 PM on April 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
amtho: "She's not being clingy. She's in love. With you. Very in love, and still in that in-love-birds-singing-we're-getting-married part of your relationship. You're talking about missing a month of this amazing time with her."
This. And really, when you're a young girl in love, a month *is* a long time. And she's probably wondering if, after you're married, every time the opportunity comes up to do something like this, you're going to do what you want and not consider what she wants.
posted by IndigoRain at 5:55 PM on April 7, 2010
This. And really, when you're a young girl in love, a month *is* a long time. And she's probably wondering if, after you're married, every time the opportunity comes up to do something like this, you're going to do what you want and not consider what she wants.
posted by IndigoRain at 5:55 PM on April 7, 2010
Talk about it more with her, and then if she still is uncomfortable with it, don't go.
Because rest assured that if she says she doesn't want you to go and you do, you will hear about it when you get back. And a month after that. And the year after that. And when you have arguments. And when you have to leave her on a moment's notice. And 10 years from now in 2020, you'll be posting an askme about how to get over this situation.
Basically, unless you're 18 and just got out of high school, you have to know that she will never, ever forget this if you go after she asked you not to. Whatever happens in London for a month to a man who is engaged- is it something that is worth that? I can't imagine it is.
When people play pick-up basketball together there is no ref so you have to call your own fouls. Sometimes you feel like you didn't touch the person that hard, but they call foul. Even though you disagree, there's what is called "Respect the call". You basically honor the feelings, even though you feel you're in the right.
Talk to her some more along the lines of win-win like was said above. If she is adamantly still saying "no, I don't want you to go"? Respect the call, man. Respect the call.
posted by cashman at 5:59 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Because rest assured that if she says she doesn't want you to go and you do, you will hear about it when you get back. And a month after that. And the year after that. And when you have arguments. And when you have to leave her on a moment's notice. And 10 years from now in 2020, you'll be posting an askme about how to get over this situation.
Basically, unless you're 18 and just got out of high school, you have to know that she will never, ever forget this if you go after she asked you not to. Whatever happens in London for a month to a man who is engaged- is it something that is worth that? I can't imagine it is.
When people play pick-up basketball together there is no ref so you have to call your own fouls. Sometimes you feel like you didn't touch the person that hard, but they call foul. Even though you disagree, there's what is called "Respect the call". You basically honor the feelings, even though you feel you're in the right.
Talk to her some more along the lines of win-win like was said above. If she is adamantly still saying "no, I don't want you to go"? Respect the call, man. Respect the call.
posted by cashman at 5:59 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd feel pretty crappy if my husband wanted to take off alone for a month-long vacation without me, especially if it was a really cool place that I'd like to have gone myself. Maybe that's selfish, maybe I'm clingy... I don't know. I think I'd just feel really left out, and I'd wonder why he'd even consider having such an awesome adventure without me to be a fabulous opportunity.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:32 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:32 PM on April 7, 2010
Selfish is her not wanting you to have an amazing travel opportunity just because she thinks that a month is a long time to be apart. A month goes fast. If you're getting married you'll have a lifetime of months ahead of you. She should be able to give you one of them to yourself.
posted by fso at 7:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by fso at 7:05 PM on April 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
I am surprised to find myself going against the AskMe grain in my response to this question. FWIW, I wouldn't consider myself a particularly independent relationship partner at all, but I think you should go, and your fiancee should set her feelings aside to encourage you to go.
My now-husband spent a year in London working while we were engaged. I despaired every time we parted, I cried regularly, I wrote him hugely long letters several times a week, I (this is the literal truth) embroidered a pile of handkerchiefs with his initials and presented them to him on his return. (Possibly that was beyond clingy, and into creepy.)
But anyway, I would never have considered suggesting that he not go. It just strikes me as a great thing for you, and not so bad for her. And I disagree that this will be just as easy to do once you're married. Teachers get a chunk of vacation, yes, but it's not that easy to coordinate your own work schedule with hers, to take a trip together. Plus, if you're following the most typical schedule of events, you'll probably be trying to save once you're married. Overseas vacations really are expensive, once you factor in accommodations and food along with airfare.
I also don't think it's a given that everyone's experience of the months leading up to the wedding is as an indispensable period of couple-bonding. I just wanted it over with, and to be married already. It's not a period of time, or a series of tasks, in which I found a lot of meaning. If your fiancee has a different attitude, that's important to consider, but I think it's also important for everyone to remember that we don't all experience wedding-planning as this intense-but-essential crucible of coupledom.
Finally, just as a piece of anecdote to counter the argument that this isn't that great an opportunity anyway, my spouse worked hard when he was in the UK, late nights, etc., but he still had time for a lot of exploration, including weekend travel throughout the country. It was a fantastic experience, and I can't imagine not wanting him to have had it, just because I was at home.
Embroidering handkerchiefs.
posted by palliser at 8:38 PM on April 7, 2010 [8 favorites]
My now-husband spent a year in London working while we were engaged. I despaired every time we parted, I cried regularly, I wrote him hugely long letters several times a week, I (this is the literal truth) embroidered a pile of handkerchiefs with his initials and presented them to him on his return. (Possibly that was beyond clingy, and into creepy.)
But anyway, I would never have considered suggesting that he not go. It just strikes me as a great thing for you, and not so bad for her. And I disagree that this will be just as easy to do once you're married. Teachers get a chunk of vacation, yes, but it's not that easy to coordinate your own work schedule with hers, to take a trip together. Plus, if you're following the most typical schedule of events, you'll probably be trying to save once you're married. Overseas vacations really are expensive, once you factor in accommodations and food along with airfare.
I also don't think it's a given that everyone's experience of the months leading up to the wedding is as an indispensable period of couple-bonding. I just wanted it over with, and to be married already. It's not a period of time, or a series of tasks, in which I found a lot of meaning. If your fiancee has a different attitude, that's important to consider, but I think it's also important for everyone to remember that we don't all experience wedding-planning as this intense-but-essential crucible of coupledom.
Finally, just as a piece of anecdote to counter the argument that this isn't that great an opportunity anyway, my spouse worked hard when he was in the UK, late nights, etc., but he still had time for a lot of exploration, including weekend travel throughout the country. It was a fantastic experience, and I can't imagine not wanting him to have had it, just because I was at home.
Embroidering handkerchiefs.
posted by palliser at 8:38 PM on April 7, 2010 [8 favorites]
Yes. You should go. It's just a month. You're being selfish, but so is she and I would say more so. Hopefully she'll come around and it's just her first reaction that was negative. Get her lots of presents and call often.
posted by whoaali at 8:56 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by whoaali at 8:56 PM on April 7, 2010
Because it's not possible to favorite a reply 100 times... What palliser said.
posted by kirstk at 9:26 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kirstk at 9:26 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Speaking as a former clinger, even I think she should suck it up and let you go, because turning down a FREE EUROPEAN TRIP short of massive illness is pretty effing stupid.
On the other hand, I agree with cashman that some people WILL NEVER LET THIS GO and she may resent you forever for going.
On a mysterious invisible third hand, hell, if I were you I'd resent her forever for not letting me go.
So, what is your fiancee like? Will she be sulking about this for the next fifty years, and if so, are you willing to pay the price for it for that long?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 PM on April 7, 2010
On the other hand, I agree with cashman that some people WILL NEVER LET THIS GO and she may resent you forever for going.
On a mysterious invisible third hand, hell, if I were you I'd resent her forever for not letting me go.
So, what is your fiancee like? Will she be sulking about this for the next fifty years, and if so, are you willing to pay the price for it for that long?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 PM on April 7, 2010
I think she's annoyed at how excited you seem to be at being without her for a month. I'm sure she knows she'll be fine and she's not going to actually tell you to stay, but you just seem so darned excited to go. Which is OK, it probably does sound exciting for you, but maybe tone down the "woohoo free vacay" and increase the "OMG I'm going to miss you so much I wish you could go too".
BTW I agree with some of the others that this is not going to be a free vacation. You know when tourists are doing sightseeing? That's work hours. Maybe your client or coworkers will take you out a couple of times but the rest of the time you're gonna be back on AskMe asking people where to go for dinner on your own. That is, if you're not working overtime because after 5pm is when you sync back with the states. And you do realize that the time you'll be able to talk to your fiance is probably after 11pm for you when you'll be exhausted and have to get up early.
Not trying to put a damper on your parade but I think you both need time to get a grip on the reality of the situation.
posted by like_neon at 1:48 AM on April 8, 2010
BTW I agree with some of the others that this is not going to be a free vacation. You know when tourists are doing sightseeing? That's work hours. Maybe your client or coworkers will take you out a couple of times but the rest of the time you're gonna be back on AskMe asking people where to go for dinner on your own. That is, if you're not working overtime because after 5pm is when you sync back with the states. And you do realize that the time you'll be able to talk to your fiance is probably after 11pm for you when you'll be exhausted and have to get up early.
Not trying to put a damper on your parade but I think you both need time to get a grip on the reality of the situation.
posted by like_neon at 1:48 AM on April 8, 2010
"It's not even so much that it's close to the wedding..." and when I asked her what it was, she said "Well, we'd be apart for a month."
If I were your fiancée, I would want you to say something like this to me:
" Your reaction kind of surprised me. I didn't think one month would matter this much to you. What bothers you most about this?"
Because in this thread so far we can only guess at what exactly her problem is with that.
And then go with the answer. Perhaps then it will be easier for you to adress her specific fears (You'll forget me, having too much fun! I'll be stuck working on what should be our wedding alone! It'll look like you dumped me!)
Perhaps you can negotiate a deal: ("I'll take you to England myself for two weeks - just me and you!)
Or perhaps you will find her specific fears reasonable enough to cancel what doesn't sound like such a brilliant opportunity after all.
posted by Omnomnom at 5:04 AM on April 8, 2010
If I were your fiancée, I would want you to say something like this to me:
" Your reaction kind of surprised me. I didn't think one month would matter this much to you. What bothers you most about this?"
Because in this thread so far we can only guess at what exactly her problem is with that.
And then go with the answer. Perhaps then it will be easier for you to adress her specific fears (You'll forget me, having too much fun! I'll be stuck working on what should be our wedding alone! It'll look like you dumped me!)
Perhaps you can negotiate a deal: ("I'll take you to England myself for two weeks - just me and you!)
Or perhaps you will find her specific fears reasonable enough to cancel what doesn't sound like such a brilliant opportunity after all.
posted by Omnomnom at 5:04 AM on April 8, 2010
Forgot to add: Either way, what would matter most to me is that you would listen to me and take my concerns seriously, rather than try to argue about there not being a problem, it's just one month!
posted by Omnomnom at 5:06 AM on April 8, 2010
posted by Omnomnom at 5:06 AM on April 8, 2010
Another thing I don't think has been mentioned is that there are always consequences to refusing an employer's request, especially if the reason doesn't strike absolutely everyone as being all that compelling (as in, for a lot of people, there's a big difference between "my baby is due that month" or "my mom is very sick and needs me around," versus "I will be getting married a month after I return"). You could also remind her that you'll both benefit from your being seen as a good employee. This is also a good way to take the focus off your own excitement, and get it back to what's best for you both as a couple.
posted by palliser at 5:52 AM on April 8, 2010
posted by palliser at 5:52 AM on April 8, 2010
The idea that a partner/spouse can't take a month-long business trip or a vacation without the other partner/spouse is frankly bizarre and repugnant to me. But that's because I'm an independent person who doesn't feel that I MUST share every experience my partner has, and it would seem really selfish of me to block their own personal/professional opportunities just because I would be sad. Maybe your fiance isn't like that, in which case, this is a symptom of a much bigger issue in your relationship that you should address.
That said, I STILL think it's kinda cold to chose to be gone the month before the wedding. A business trip to London is really not all that.
posted by yarly at 7:09 AM on April 8, 2010
That said, I STILL think it's kinda cold to chose to be gone the month before the wedding. A business trip to London is really not all that.
posted by yarly at 7:09 AM on April 8, 2010
London is a ridiculously cheap travel destination from the U.S.
What? No, it isn't at all. The airfare alone, with taxes and fuel surcharges these days, is really expensive for most people, especially a newly-married couple. Those saying, "Oh, just go another time and take her with you," seem to expect that this would be an easy thing to do. I know people who have NEVER been to Europe, and others that waited years for the chance.
I understand your fiance' being upset that you will be gone, and also that she wishes she could go. I also understand, OP, that others are right in that this will be a business trip and you will probably be exhausted half the time.
But I still can't understand those that are saying you should sacrifice this for the sake of the wedding, or to assuage her feelings. First of all, your business wants you to do it. There might be consequences of refusing. You don't want to start off a marriage without a job.
Secondly, insecurity is a natural part of a new relationship, but when you are on the verge of getting married, you should be at a place where you can look at the big picture. You, OP, should be able to understand that she will be lonely and wistful at missing this trip with her, and should be cognizant of her feelings and do your best to reassure her that you will be in contact as much as humanly possible.
And she, as the woman who loves you, recognizing how important this is to you, should let you go.
The worst marriages are the ones where the couples keep score. "You went there without me," "I sacrificed this trip of a lifetime for you"--these are the kinds of thoughts you BOTH want to put aside. Those suggesting you martyr yourself "for the marriage" have a very different view of marriage than my own reality, which is that partners want what is best for each other. Sometimes that means sitting aside, embroidering those handkerchiefs while your partner sightsees.
posted by misha at 7:24 AM on April 8, 2010
What? No, it isn't at all. The airfare alone, with taxes and fuel surcharges these days, is really expensive for most people, especially a newly-married couple. Those saying, "Oh, just go another time and take her with you," seem to expect that this would be an easy thing to do. I know people who have NEVER been to Europe, and others that waited years for the chance.
I understand your fiance' being upset that you will be gone, and also that she wishes she could go. I also understand, OP, that others are right in that this will be a business trip and you will probably be exhausted half the time.
But I still can't understand those that are saying you should sacrifice this for the sake of the wedding, or to assuage her feelings. First of all, your business wants you to do it. There might be consequences of refusing. You don't want to start off a marriage without a job.
Secondly, insecurity is a natural part of a new relationship, but when you are on the verge of getting married, you should be at a place where you can look at the big picture. You, OP, should be able to understand that she will be lonely and wistful at missing this trip with her, and should be cognizant of her feelings and do your best to reassure her that you will be in contact as much as humanly possible.
And she, as the woman who loves you, recognizing how important this is to you, should let you go.
The worst marriages are the ones where the couples keep score. "You went there without me," "I sacrificed this trip of a lifetime for you"--these are the kinds of thoughts you BOTH want to put aside. Those suggesting you martyr yourself "for the marriage" have a very different view of marriage than my own reality, which is that partners want what is best for each other. Sometimes that means sitting aside, embroidering those handkerchiefs while your partner sightsees.
posted by misha at 7:24 AM on April 8, 2010
Having given your question some more thought, I think there is a simpler way to answer it.
The tricky bit is that different people need different things from a relationship. I wouldn't have been able to take (and did refuse) a work trip similar to one you described when I was in a similar situation. Some people in the thread feel you should definitely go.
Both of our reactions are normal, they just depend on what the couple needs and can give each other.
So the real answer that I'd give you as to whether or not you should go is: what does your fiancee need from you and what can you give? If your fiancee needs for you to stay then you need to not go or to have some serious discussions about your mutual needs and expectations before you get married.
Neither choice is wrong or makes one of you the bad guy. This, like many other choices you will make in your future, is about finding the balance that you will need to strike. There is no right way to be in a relationship. Being more independent doesn't make you cold or uncaring and being less independent doesn't make you clingy or stifling. People just need what they need and can give what they can give, and successful relationships are ones where those things can best intersect.
posted by jaybeans at 12:34 PM on April 8, 2010
The tricky bit is that different people need different things from a relationship. I wouldn't have been able to take (and did refuse) a work trip similar to one you described when I was in a similar situation. Some people in the thread feel you should definitely go.
Both of our reactions are normal, they just depend on what the couple needs and can give each other.
So the real answer that I'd give you as to whether or not you should go is: what does your fiancee need from you and what can you give? If your fiancee needs for you to stay then you need to not go or to have some serious discussions about your mutual needs and expectations before you get married.
Neither choice is wrong or makes one of you the bad guy. This, like many other choices you will make in your future, is about finding the balance that you will need to strike. There is no right way to be in a relationship. Being more independent doesn't make you cold or uncaring and being less independent doesn't make you clingy or stifling. People just need what they need and can give what they can give, and successful relationships are ones where those things can best intersect.
posted by jaybeans at 12:34 PM on April 8, 2010
From what I understood, the whole question is based on her initial reaction when you broke the news over the phone, so maybe things have evolved by now (follow-up?).
Your wording, albeit careful, nevertheless sounds like your approach was veering towards confrontational - like you were already gearing up for accusations of selfishness, asking whether you should "fight for" it. I hope you snapped out of that mode in time for you two to discuss this further. If she's unhappy with it, she's unhappy with it, and you explaining to her how wrong it is for her to feel the way she does probably wouldn't change that. (Just like nothing she says will change you wanting to go.) You two want different things, both of your feelings are valid, and I hope you avoid turning it into a who's-the-jerk-here.
The question you seem to be asking between the lines is "Should my fiancee feel unhappy about this?" (and that is indeed the one many have answered here), but that probably simply won't get you anywhere. Maybe she shouldn't, but the fact is that she does. The real question is: "What should I do when my fiancee isn't happy with this thing I want to do?" And there are your options, too: to A) do it nevertheless in spite of her unhappiness, or to B) not do it in spite of your unhappiness. What we all feel tempted to do when faced with this sort of dilemma in our relationships is to stubbornly aim for option C) to change how they feel/think/are. It's useful to recognize that often, that's just not a realistic option (and is sometimes even hurtful if you keep pushing and blaming), so it boils down to A or B, and finding ways to cope with the results.
My point is that whatever you choose, respect her feelings. You may end up deciding to ask her to suck up her dissatisfaction and to deal with her disappointment, but don't guilt her or shame her for feeling like that, and do own your decision.
FWIW, my relationship used to be extremely long distance for long periods of time, and it's never been a problem for me. Yet, if my SO had suggested this during the stressful months before our wedding, I would've been very unhappy. Planning a wedding goes beyond managing the actual tasks at hand: for me, it was important to feel like we were both in it together, that it was equally important for both of us, and it also helped to have someone (physically) there to (occasionally literally) lean on when the stress got really bad. Sure, I would've managed the whole circus by myself, but I would've been a little heartbroken and lonely if I'd had to. So, I personally don't think it's unreasonable for her to feel this way.
posted by sively at 4:58 AM on April 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your wording, albeit careful, nevertheless sounds like your approach was veering towards confrontational - like you were already gearing up for accusations of selfishness, asking whether you should "fight for" it. I hope you snapped out of that mode in time for you two to discuss this further. If she's unhappy with it, she's unhappy with it, and you explaining to her how wrong it is for her to feel the way she does probably wouldn't change that. (Just like nothing she says will change you wanting to go.) You two want different things, both of your feelings are valid, and I hope you avoid turning it into a who's-the-jerk-here.
The question you seem to be asking between the lines is "Should my fiancee feel unhappy about this?" (and that is indeed the one many have answered here), but that probably simply won't get you anywhere. Maybe she shouldn't, but the fact is that she does. The real question is: "What should I do when my fiancee isn't happy with this thing I want to do?" And there are your options, too: to A) do it nevertheless in spite of her unhappiness, or to B) not do it in spite of your unhappiness. What we all feel tempted to do when faced with this sort of dilemma in our relationships is to stubbornly aim for option C) to change how they feel/think/are. It's useful to recognize that often, that's just not a realistic option (and is sometimes even hurtful if you keep pushing and blaming), so it boils down to A or B, and finding ways to cope with the results.
My point is that whatever you choose, respect her feelings. You may end up deciding to ask her to suck up her dissatisfaction and to deal with her disappointment, but don't guilt her or shame her for feeling like that, and do own your decision.
FWIW, my relationship used to be extremely long distance for long periods of time, and it's never been a problem for me. Yet, if my SO had suggested this during the stressful months before our wedding, I would've been very unhappy. Planning a wedding goes beyond managing the actual tasks at hand: for me, it was important to feel like we were both in it together, that it was equally important for both of us, and it also helped to have someone (physically) there to (occasionally literally) lean on when the stress got really bad. Sure, I would've managed the whole circus by myself, but I would've been a little heartbroken and lonely if I'd had to. So, I personally don't think it's unreasonable for her to feel this way.
posted by sively at 4:58 AM on April 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Please let us know how it pans out...I, personally, would have trusted my future husband, but it does prey on fears of "he wants one last fling in a distant locale? No, does he? No, he couldn't. Maybe?"
posted by agregoli at 7:46 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by agregoli at 7:46 AM on April 11, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Two people across the ocean can get a lot of planning, research, and discussion via Skype.
When my son spent 10 months in London we talked to him, and with web cams, saw more of him than we usually did when he was stateside.
posted by imjustsaying at 1:00 PM on April 7, 2010 [2 favorites]