Non-academic career possibilities for someone considering grad school in clinical psychology or organizational behavior?
April 5, 2010 10:31 PM Subscribe
Non-academic career possibilities for someone considering grad school in clinical psychology or organizational behavior?
I'm graduating this May with a B.A. in Psychology and English. Luckily, I've managed to get a position as a psych research assistant at a VA hospital with a focus on PTSD, stress, and female veterans (two-year commitment). Unfortunately, this was the kind of thing where I applied to any psych research assistant position for which I was remotely qualified and this was the first one to get back to me and offer me a position. I am excited about the job, and when I applied I definitely wanted to go for a clinical or more research-oriented PhD program (which is what I told them)... but now I am not so sure.
I got the job in February, but as my last semester has unfolded, I've become progressively more tired of academia and unsure of my future goals. I know clinical PhD programs focus a lot on research, and I'm just not sure that kind of quantitative research is what I want to do. And clinical psychology? I see it as a possibility but certainly not something I definitely want to do.
What compounds this confusion is the qualitative research I also conduct with a professor of organizational behavior, which is about the difficulties faced by international business students and employees when adjusting to American culture. I've always thought of myself as someone with an interest in the humanities who has an analytical frame of mind, and this kind of work is what is really exciting to me. In particular, the qualitative aspect of research, which in my limited experience seems to be focused more on ideas and constructs, less so data/statistics. So I've even considered organizational behavior programs (or a PhD in industrial/organizational psychology). Alas, some of these PhD programs just lead to... academic jobs at business schools, not really what I want. Also, I have no background in economics, so I'm unsure how well I'd be prepared for it. If I imagine an ideal job, it's this nebulous mix between consultant and psychologist where I advise immigrant families on adjusting to American life, counsel kids (like myself) who've grown up in a bicultural environment and who have their own particular set of issues, and advocate for the legitimacy of mental health. BUT I also want the capacity to say, act as an HR consultant, something a bit more pragmatic and financially rewarding. I'm not sure how to align these desires.
I know I should not pursue further education unless I know exactly what I want from it and what a realistic endgoal would be. So right now, I need to know - what do you do with a PhD in clinical psychology, organizational behavior, industrial psychology - but with a focus on non-academic jobs? What kind of real careers do people have? Anecdotal response welcome and especially encouraged.
I'm graduating this May with a B.A. in Psychology and English. Luckily, I've managed to get a position as a psych research assistant at a VA hospital with a focus on PTSD, stress, and female veterans (two-year commitment). Unfortunately, this was the kind of thing where I applied to any psych research assistant position for which I was remotely qualified and this was the first one to get back to me and offer me a position. I am excited about the job, and when I applied I definitely wanted to go for a clinical or more research-oriented PhD program (which is what I told them)... but now I am not so sure.
I got the job in February, but as my last semester has unfolded, I've become progressively more tired of academia and unsure of my future goals. I know clinical PhD programs focus a lot on research, and I'm just not sure that kind of quantitative research is what I want to do. And clinical psychology? I see it as a possibility but certainly not something I definitely want to do.
What compounds this confusion is the qualitative research I also conduct with a professor of organizational behavior, which is about the difficulties faced by international business students and employees when adjusting to American culture. I've always thought of myself as someone with an interest in the humanities who has an analytical frame of mind, and this kind of work is what is really exciting to me. In particular, the qualitative aspect of research, which in my limited experience seems to be focused more on ideas and constructs, less so data/statistics. So I've even considered organizational behavior programs (or a PhD in industrial/organizational psychology). Alas, some of these PhD programs just lead to... academic jobs at business schools, not really what I want. Also, I have no background in economics, so I'm unsure how well I'd be prepared for it. If I imagine an ideal job, it's this nebulous mix between consultant and psychologist where I advise immigrant families on adjusting to American life, counsel kids (like myself) who've grown up in a bicultural environment and who have their own particular set of issues, and advocate for the legitimacy of mental health. BUT I also want the capacity to say, act as an HR consultant, something a bit more pragmatic and financially rewarding. I'm not sure how to align these desires.
I know I should not pursue further education unless I know exactly what I want from it and what a realistic endgoal would be. So right now, I need to know - what do you do with a PhD in clinical psychology, organizational behavior, industrial psychology - but with a focus on non-academic jobs? What kind of real careers do people have? Anecdotal response welcome and especially encouraged.
You are already qualified to start working in the field of social services with immigrant families. You could start next week.
I don't think the experience is very transferable to your other career, but you could work at one while you study for the other.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 3:34 AM on April 6, 2010
I don't think the experience is very transferable to your other career, but you could work at one while you study for the other.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 3:34 AM on April 6, 2010
You might be looking for something like a PsyD program instead of a PhD in psychology.
posted by futureisunwritten at 5:27 AM on April 6, 2010
posted by futureisunwritten at 5:27 AM on April 6, 2010
Do you want to work at the VA at all, with those issues and that population? You say you're still excited about it - well, the VA hires clinical psychologists to do clinical patient-focused work. You'll have the opportunity to work with psychologists, social workers, counselors, and other mental health people who are focused on clinical care, rather than research; it's a good way to see "real careers" that aren't academic.
Do you really want to do clinical psychology? Maybe consider a social work MSW program or a mental health counseling MS program. Faster than a doctorate and eligible for insurance coverage under the Parity Act. Both have a strong advocacy slant and emphasize multicultural competencies. Social work is rooted in advocacy, while counseling uses a developmental/wellness approach.
Finally - have you held jobs outside academia? How old are you? Your question is almost fatalistic, as if you have only this one chance to make a career. I'm 42 - I am half done with my second masters' and will be starting a second PhD in about a year. I've been in and out of the ivory tower, and most of the PhD counselors I know maintain private practices, consult, and teach. Your life in mental health can be a lot more flexible than you might imagine.
posted by catlet at 5:34 AM on April 6, 2010
Do you really want to do clinical psychology? Maybe consider a social work MSW program or a mental health counseling MS program. Faster than a doctorate and eligible for insurance coverage under the Parity Act. Both have a strong advocacy slant and emphasize multicultural competencies. Social work is rooted in advocacy, while counseling uses a developmental/wellness approach.
Finally - have you held jobs outside academia? How old are you? Your question is almost fatalistic, as if you have only this one chance to make a career. I'm 42 - I am half done with my second masters' and will be starting a second PhD in about a year. I've been in and out of the ivory tower, and most of the PhD counselors I know maintain private practices, consult, and teach. Your life in mental health can be a lot more flexible than you might imagine.
posted by catlet at 5:34 AM on April 6, 2010
Response by poster: catlet, I'm excited about the VA because in this job market I'm kind of relieved I got a position at all. It has a relatively high salary, good benefits, and will buy me some time to think more about my later career. Actually, most of the people in my future department are clinical psychologists who spend most of their time on research - when I was interviewed I emphasized my interest in both the research and clinical aspects of the position, and most of the work in my job description is focused on research. I'm still excited about it because no matter which route I pursue, it should have transferable skills, even if the specialty in which I work is very specific. I got the impression that it was the definitely the kind of place in which they really prepped you to apply to competitive grad programs, made sure you got good experience under your belt, published, that kind of thing.
I am 21 - I've had internships in HR and have worked at a school library and multiple research positions. Plus working in a restaurant in high school. No, not your best spectrum of possible careers. I am thinking about PhD programs NOW because when I talked to my adviser, he emphasized there was a lengthy process in communicating with professors with whom you want to work, not all departments hire every year, he said it was a "1-3 year process."
When I said I wanted to do something a bit more pragmatic and financially rewarding, I meant it as a shortcut for "I don't really want to do social work as a career." Personal preference - I think in the long term I would find it emotionally draining and financially restrictive. When I said I wanted to work with immigrant families in that role, I mostly meant it as a - hey! I found this possible niche! - kind of comment. I want to emphasize that having a comfortable and secure career is also very important to me. Like, if I could work as a college consultant who happened to take on a lot of Chinese-American families because I could relate to them on a cultural level, that would be okay with me.
Could you tell me more about the daily lives of some of the PhD counselors you know? How did they get there?
posted by leedly at 6:47 AM on April 6, 2010
I am 21 - I've had internships in HR and have worked at a school library and multiple research positions. Plus working in a restaurant in high school. No, not your best spectrum of possible careers. I am thinking about PhD programs NOW because when I talked to my adviser, he emphasized there was a lengthy process in communicating with professors with whom you want to work, not all departments hire every year, he said it was a "1-3 year process."
When I said I wanted to do something a bit more pragmatic and financially rewarding, I meant it as a shortcut for "I don't really want to do social work as a career." Personal preference - I think in the long term I would find it emotionally draining and financially restrictive. When I said I wanted to work with immigrant families in that role, I mostly meant it as a - hey! I found this possible niche! - kind of comment. I want to emphasize that having a comfortable and secure career is also very important to me. Like, if I could work as a college consultant who happened to take on a lot of Chinese-American families because I could relate to them on a cultural level, that would be okay with me.
Could you tell me more about the daily lives of some of the PhD counselors you know? How did they get there?
posted by leedly at 6:47 AM on April 6, 2010
I have a Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior and have pursued an exclusively non-academic career primarily as an external consultant (except for a short stint in the HR field in a large corporation). Over the years and positions, I have gone from generalist (all sorts of OD and personal development consulting) to specialist (individual assessment for hiring/development) by my own choice.
There is basically no difference between OB and Industrial Psychology, except for the department in which they are housed (OB is generally in the business school) and starting salary in the academic world. Otherwise zip, nada, no difference at all. A degree in one is as good as a degree in the other. In my case, the breadth requirements for the OB degree were all in psychology and sociology; I never had to take economics or accounting or marketing or finance or any of the other business disciplines. I wish now I had, but that's beside the point.
The real problem with pursuing a nonacademic career right out of graduate school is that your faculty are unable (and unwilling, in my case) to shed any light on how you might proceed. That's where doing some informational interviewing really comes into play. AskMetafilter is a good start; colleagues at the VA will also be helpful. But then you'll need to branch out. For example, there are numerous consultants and firms that focus on expats which, based on your OP, sounds like a direction you might want to explore.
As you consider graduate school, keep open the possibility that a master's degree might be a better foundation for your chosen career. (For example, there are specific master's degrees in OD and various other HR-type functions, whereas Ph.D. programs are usually a step or two further into theories and research.)
If you want to MeMail me, I would be happy to discuss this further with you.
posted by DrGail at 6:50 AM on April 6, 2010
There is basically no difference between OB and Industrial Psychology, except for the department in which they are housed (OB is generally in the business school) and starting salary in the academic world. Otherwise zip, nada, no difference at all. A degree in one is as good as a degree in the other. In my case, the breadth requirements for the OB degree were all in psychology and sociology; I never had to take economics or accounting or marketing or finance or any of the other business disciplines. I wish now I had, but that's beside the point.
The real problem with pursuing a nonacademic career right out of graduate school is that your faculty are unable (and unwilling, in my case) to shed any light on how you might proceed. That's where doing some informational interviewing really comes into play. AskMetafilter is a good start; colleagues at the VA will also be helpful. But then you'll need to branch out. For example, there are numerous consultants and firms that focus on expats which, based on your OP, sounds like a direction you might want to explore.
As you consider graduate school, keep open the possibility that a master's degree might be a better foundation for your chosen career. (For example, there are specific master's degrees in OD and various other HR-type functions, whereas Ph.D. programs are usually a step or two further into theories and research.)
If you want to MeMail me, I would be happy to discuss this further with you.
posted by DrGail at 6:50 AM on April 6, 2010
Here's the thing about academics. Yes, they're telling you NOW; this is rooted in their own experience and in the things they were told by their advisors. If you start grad school right away, you are more likely to finish; people who leave, no matter how much they want advanced degrees, are less likely to return once they have jobs and families and whatnot.
Counselors I know with varied practices: a guy who did psychology undergrad, worked in nonprofit social services, did a counseling MS in his late 20s, worked in a residential hospital for adolescents with behavior disorders, did a counseling PhD in his early 30s: splits his time between a legal consulting practice, a local hospital contract, individual practice, and teaching. A woman in her 50s who was a primary-grade teacher, went straight through a counseling MS and PhD in her late 30s, and is now tenured faculty who maintains a private practice and also consults with local governmental agencies. Oh, and another woman who works with sexually abusive children in a corrections setting, does disability assessments, and runs substance abuse groups. I also know many people who went straight into counseling out of undergrad, work in community or private mental health agencies, and see a few private clients on the side.
You have two years of guaranteed employment ahead of you, right? Think of it as two years' space to investigate all sorts of things: various degree programs, licensure requirements in your states of potential residence/practice, the kinds of people you'd like to work with, the kind of money you'd like to make. Maybe you'll fall in love with PTSD research, maybe you won't. It's hard to know, and people you respect are telling you all sorts of things about the way their world works which may or may not be true for the way your world is going to work. You have space, time, and a job title that will open doors for the sort of informational interviews DrGail suggests - do that. I learned about counseling because of a similar conversation with my psychologist's officemate.
posted by catlet at 7:37 AM on April 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Counselors I know with varied practices: a guy who did psychology undergrad, worked in nonprofit social services, did a counseling MS in his late 20s, worked in a residential hospital for adolescents with behavior disorders, did a counseling PhD in his early 30s: splits his time between a legal consulting practice, a local hospital contract, individual practice, and teaching. A woman in her 50s who was a primary-grade teacher, went straight through a counseling MS and PhD in her late 30s, and is now tenured faculty who maintains a private practice and also consults with local governmental agencies. Oh, and another woman who works with sexually abusive children in a corrections setting, does disability assessments, and runs substance abuse groups. I also know many people who went straight into counseling out of undergrad, work in community or private mental health agencies, and see a few private clients on the side.
You have two years of guaranteed employment ahead of you, right? Think of it as two years' space to investigate all sorts of things: various degree programs, licensure requirements in your states of potential residence/practice, the kinds of people you'd like to work with, the kind of money you'd like to make. Maybe you'll fall in love with PTSD research, maybe you won't. It's hard to know, and people you respect are telling you all sorts of things about the way their world works which may or may not be true for the way your world is going to work. You have space, time, and a job title that will open doors for the sort of informational interviews DrGail suggests - do that. I learned about counseling because of a similar conversation with my psychologist's officemate.
posted by catlet at 7:37 AM on April 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do you have any interest in technology? There are lots of opportunities where your future expertise could be used in ethnography, user research and service design -- all growing fields where the motivations and needs of users of varying skill sets and backgrounds are important in designing technologies and services for them. The work that Jan Chipchase did for Nokia as well as other people like him (he's just the first name that came to mind, there are many people doing this right now) seem like interesting and non-academic realms you might explore.
posted by sub-culture at 11:19 AM on April 6, 2010
posted by sub-culture at 11:19 AM on April 6, 2010
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posted by parmanparman at 10:38 PM on April 5, 2010