"Espionage" would have to be a B.S., wouldn't it?
April 5, 2010 10:56 AM Subscribe
What are good college majors (other than foreign languages) for aspiring spies?
I've tried googling around and looking at cia.gov, but I figured I'd ask the collective, too. If one were hoping to go into espionage (as a Non-Official Cover, not an analyst or the like), what's the sort of college major that helps get you in?
From what I've turned up so far, it's not so much an issue of what you study so much as doing well at whatever it is... but, again, I figured there are those here who might know more.
BTW -- if at all possible, I'm looking for things that would've been relevant in the pre-911 world. You know, before there were degrees in things like "Homeland Security" and the like.
I've tried googling around and looking at cia.gov, but I figured I'd ask the collective, too. If one were hoping to go into espionage (as a Non-Official Cover, not an analyst or the like), what's the sort of college major that helps get you in?
From what I've turned up so far, it's not so much an issue of what you study so much as doing well at whatever it is... but, again, I figured there are those here who might know more.
BTW -- if at all possible, I'm looking for things that would've been relevant in the pre-911 world. You know, before there were degrees in things like "Homeland Security" and the like.
I would imagine Information Technology would be right up there, with a strong helping of network security and/or encryption.
posted by Pragmatica at 11:03 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Pragmatica at 11:03 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Farsi. Arabic. Mandarin.
posted by killdevil at 11:04 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by killdevil at 11:04 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
"(as a Non-Official Cover, not an analyst or the like)"
NOC postings are generally based on the agency's needs and what you're doing at the time; consider it a marriage of convenience. I don't think you can plan ahead like you're proposing. Analyst jobs are for planning ahead.
posted by Mutant at 11:05 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
NOC postings are generally based on the agency's needs and what you're doing at the time; consider it a marriage of convenience. I don't think you can plan ahead like you're proposing. Analyst jobs are for planning ahead.
posted by Mutant at 11:05 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hard science or quantitative business degree (finance, accounting, etc.), mixed with working knowledge of a critical foreign language (currently: Arabic, Chinese, Dari, Indonesian, Korean, Pashto/Pashtu, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Kurdish and Urdu).
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:07 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:07 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Check out the CIA's career pages for the Clandestine Service, it is what you're looking for: https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/view-jobs.html
Here are the degrees they like to see: "Degrees of interest include, but are not limited to, international business, finance or international relations, economics, physical science or nuclear, biological or chemical engineering."
Keep in mind they do care about GPA and advanced degrees will always help. Foreign languages, experience abroad, and evidence of leadership abilities will also be key.
posted by alaijmw at 11:08 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Here are the degrees they like to see: "Degrees of interest include, but are not limited to, international business, finance or international relations, economics, physical science or nuclear, biological or chemical engineering."
Keep in mind they do care about GPA and advanced degrees will always help. Foreign languages, experience abroad, and evidence of leadership abilities will also be key.
posted by alaijmw at 11:08 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
In addition to the "degrees of interest", I'd imagine studying theater can go a long way.
posted by LSK at 11:12 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by LSK at 11:12 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Math, computer science, and physics majors quite often take jobs with the NSA, whose goals are not dissimilar from the CIA.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:14 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by jeffburdges at 11:14 AM on April 5, 2010
This made me think of a This American Life Episode: Superpowers (Act Two: Wonder Woman), where one woman endeavors to become a CIA agent, and the process of educating herself in all sorts of different disciplines.
posted by sararah at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by sararah at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2010
I have a friend who sold computers in Europe. (I don't know that he was a NOC, but he now works for the Commerce Dept at US embassies, so I'm assuming)
I think any job that would get you to a foreign country with a good excuse would work, so major in what you like.
posted by MtDewd at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2010
I think any job that would get you to a foreign country with a good excuse would work, so major in what you like.
posted by MtDewd at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2010
I imagine you want to be in field. I would suggest you look at careers that enable you to 'blend' seamlessly with the local fauna - e.g., business, finance, accounting. CIA recruits from business schools for these reasons. For in field physical work, they seem to pull from rangers or seals.
posted by zia at 11:23 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by zia at 11:23 AM on April 5, 2010
Also, you want to be in a position to gather critical intel, so a 'high' trusted position is always good. Excelling either in a technical way e.g., agriculture/infrastructure or business is good.
posted by zia at 11:25 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by zia at 11:25 AM on April 5, 2010
Geographic information studies + Farsi will get you some interest, I've been told.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:38 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:38 AM on April 5, 2010
You might want to request that the mods make this post anonymous, because when the CIA recruited at my campus they specifically said not to tell anyone about your intention to apply to the CIA.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:49 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:49 AM on April 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
James Bond's college major was oriental languages.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:13 PM on April 5, 2010
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:13 PM on April 5, 2010
International Relations/Politics. That said, I know people who studied physics and math who are now working in (British) intelligence (admittedly as analysts, not 007 types) - often, it is more useful to have a specific skill than just the ability to write essays.
posted by MisterCoffeeWithAnAutomaticDrip at 12:20 PM on April 5, 2010
posted by MisterCoffeeWithAnAutomaticDrip at 12:20 PM on April 5, 2010
This is umpteen years ago, but I interviewed with the CIA when they came to my campus (long story, didn't interview for the "normal" reasons) and they loved me being a history major and the fact that I'd lived abroad as a kid.
(The interview session sign-ups were posted in the student center and no one told us to not mention we were interviewing with a three-letter agency. This was in the 80s and things are almost certainly different now.)
posted by rtha at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2010
(The interview session sign-ups were posted in the student center and no one told us to not mention we were interviewing with a three-letter agency. This was in the 80s and things are almost certainly different now.)
posted by rtha at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2010
Don't overlook the straightforward route of going into the military and then specialising in some intelligence-related area. Perhaps done while attending college for your additional subject of choice.
posted by rongorongo at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2010
posted by rongorongo at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2010
My university, UNC, has a major called Peace, War and Defense. Most of the people I've met in the program are at least considering applying to the CIA.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:09 PM on April 5, 2010
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:09 PM on April 5, 2010
From Mr. Kitkat:
Some advice if you are serious about work with the CIA’s clandestine service department: first, there are factors that are far more important than your college major. Prior military service, language experience, and overseas experiences are far more likely to get you into the Professional Trainee program than what you studied in college.
Another thing to consider is your appearance. While the CIA does not discriminate in its hiring process, a white male is much less likely to be hired for NOC than someone who can effectively blend into local society in Pakistan or other Middle Eastern countries. You need to be able to operate without drawing attention to yourself and a white guy speaking fluent Arabic still draws attention. There are official cover positions that are more common; in these, you’ll be given a position (most often with the State Department) but your real job will be working with the CIA to recruit agents. The difference between this and an NOC job is that you will be known as an American diplomat, and if your connection to the CIA is discovered you can’t be held indefinitely since you hold diplomatic immunity.
To answer your question about helpful majors, area studies is particularly useful. Middle East studies is popular right now especially if you can pass for someone from the region. I think South East Asian studies will become increasingly popular as well. If you are an undergraduate there is a clandestine service internship. You’ll want to apply for the internship if you can because if getting the internship greatly improves your chance of getting a full time position when graduating.
Before you seriously decide to go down this career path I recommend you read some memoirs of people who worked in the field. The American Agent: My Life in the CIA by Richard Holm and A Spy for All Seasons: My Life in the CIA by Duane Clarridge are good ones to start. Also, Fairplay: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying by James Olson gives some good examples of what Operations Officers face.
Good luck!
posted by kitkatcathy at 2:58 PM on April 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
Some advice if you are serious about work with the CIA’s clandestine service department: first, there are factors that are far more important than your college major. Prior military service, language experience, and overseas experiences are far more likely to get you into the Professional Trainee program than what you studied in college.
Another thing to consider is your appearance. While the CIA does not discriminate in its hiring process, a white male is much less likely to be hired for NOC than someone who can effectively blend into local society in Pakistan or other Middle Eastern countries. You need to be able to operate without drawing attention to yourself and a white guy speaking fluent Arabic still draws attention. There are official cover positions that are more common; in these, you’ll be given a position (most often with the State Department) but your real job will be working with the CIA to recruit agents. The difference between this and an NOC job is that you will be known as an American diplomat, and if your connection to the CIA is discovered you can’t be held indefinitely since you hold diplomatic immunity.
To answer your question about helpful majors, area studies is particularly useful. Middle East studies is popular right now especially if you can pass for someone from the region. I think South East Asian studies will become increasingly popular as well. If you are an undergraduate there is a clandestine service internship. You’ll want to apply for the internship if you can because if getting the internship greatly improves your chance of getting a full time position when graduating.
Before you seriously decide to go down this career path I recommend you read some memoirs of people who worked in the field. The American Agent: My Life in the CIA by Richard Holm and A Spy for All Seasons: My Life in the CIA by Duane Clarridge are good ones to start. Also, Fairplay: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying by James Olson gives some good examples of what Operations Officers face.
Good luck!
posted by kitkatcathy at 2:58 PM on April 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
Stand out from your peers and solve problems, quckly. An interest in, and a respect for, different cultures. Contribute meaningfully before a decision is made, and then follow direction even if you don't agree with it. Language is a plus, but not a magic talisman. Translators don't get to make decisions.
posted by justcorbly at 4:59 PM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by justcorbly at 4:59 PM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the feedback.
As a quick response to a few questions/assumptions: I'm a 35 year old monolingual history teacher, and my military service was probably far too long ago to be relevant now. I have no real interest in actually pursuing this career. It's just for a writing project. I like to keep things relatively realistic is all.
There are days when I wish I'd have jumped when they were fishing for internships at my college, but then, there are days I wish I'd have joined the French Foreign Legion, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2010
As a quick response to a few questions/assumptions: I'm a 35 year old monolingual history teacher, and my military service was probably far too long ago to be relevant now. I have no real interest in actually pursuing this career. It's just for a writing project. I like to keep things relatively realistic is all.
There are days when I wish I'd have jumped when they were fishing for internships at my college, but then, there are days I wish I'd have joined the French Foreign Legion, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2010
FWIW, I think that journalism or the like would be quite helpful for the information-gathering aspect of things.
posted by blazingunicorn at 11:05 PM on April 5, 2010
posted by blazingunicorn at 11:05 PM on April 5, 2010
The only actual spy I've ever known was an architect by profession. They can move around internationally without raising an eyebrow.
posted by workerant at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2010
posted by workerant at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:57 AM on April 5, 2010 [1 favorite]