What should I know before moving forward with an offshore developer?
April 4, 2010 8:14 PM Subscribe
I'm thinking about hiring an offshore developer. I've never done this before. Can you help think through this?
I'm contemplating the use of an offshore developer to aid in the development of a web app. This is new territory for me. I have preliminary phone calls setup with a couple firms. In short, I'd like to get input from people who've been down this path before as to what I should be thinking about.
What should I ask these folks right off the bat?
What should I know/ask before moving forward with a firm?
Are there any red flags I should be looking for?
Is there anything I need to keep in mind with respect to IP?
Anything else?
This is all new to me so something that seems obvious to you might not be as obvious to me.
Thanks for your help!
Throwaway email: off.s.dev@gmail.com
I'm contemplating the use of an offshore developer to aid in the development of a web app. This is new territory for me. I have preliminary phone calls setup with a couple firms. In short, I'd like to get input from people who've been down this path before as to what I should be thinking about.
What should I ask these folks right off the bat?
What should I know/ask before moving forward with a firm?
Are there any red flags I should be looking for?
Is there anything I need to keep in mind with respect to IP?
Anything else?
This is all new to me so something that seems obvious to you might not be as obvious to me.
Thanks for your help!
Throwaway email: off.s.dev@gmail.com
Maybe I Needing Later is the canonical cautionary tale.
posted by flabdablet at 9:02 PM on April 4, 2010
posted by flabdablet at 9:02 PM on April 4, 2010
Good article on best practices here (Associated discussion here).
posted by lunchbox at 9:49 PM on April 4, 2010
posted by lunchbox at 9:49 PM on April 4, 2010
Strongly consider that working successfully with offshore developers requires a certain amount of work and expense up front; the cost savings come later, over time. If you only have one project, or you won't have the kind of scale that allow the up-front investment to be recouped, don't bother going overseas.
posted by davejay at 10:14 PM on April 4, 2010
posted by davejay at 10:14 PM on April 4, 2010
tl;dr: if you've never managed a project on-shore, you may well find it more costly overall to off-shore.
This is absolutely true, and bears repeating like a mantra.
If you hire me (and this isn't a pitch; I don't do web stuff), I will spend time with you making sure that you've fully thought through your project. I will tell you how to make it cheaper, better, more useful. I'll help you write the spec (for a fee); and if you decide not to buy my development services, I'll happily hand over that spec and help you select a different engineer. I will tell you if the gee-whiz technology you've chosen is actually a bad fit, or massively too expensive, or if there's an equivalent open-source tool. I'll tell you up front if your deadline is unrealistic, or if your cost analysis is over optimistic. I will organize quality assurance (if you're willing to pay). I'll even tell you if your project has already been built, is available off the shelf, and where you can get it--I've saved lots of clients tens of thousands of bucks by pointing out that there's a command on OSX that already does that.
I'll make estimates that accurately reflect reality.
My code will be well-organized and readable. It will follow code style conventions. It will be extensible (or at least editable). There will be unit tests attached to (most) functional units. I will use commodity file formats. I will include support tools (file editors, etc.) if necessary, and those will actually work--so you aren't editing XML or whatever by hand. My code will be commented and documented in plain (programmer) English.
An off-shore company will not do any of that for the $15/hour you're expecting to pay. Their sole goal is to produce a product that appears to work correctly, in as many hours, for as little work as possible, so that you will pay them and move on.
What's more, at some point, you're going to want to change something. Because the code is going to be a steaming mess, that change is going to be quite expensive.
This is all new to me so something that seems obvious to you might not be as obvious to me.
My experience with off-shore companies marketing themselves for small projects is that they're usually just bloody terrible.
This is not at all in the slightest to say that programmers from those countries are terrible. It's to say that the bright ones are doing hard work on interesting projects, and charging market rates for legitimate projects. They're not any cheaper than an on-shore engineer, because they're every bit as skilled and valuable.
But the ones who are offering to work for $15/hour are pretty much worth exactly that. There's a reason they're so inexpensive.
posted by Netzapper at 11:17 PM on April 4, 2010 [7 favorites]
This is absolutely true, and bears repeating like a mantra.
If you hire me (and this isn't a pitch; I don't do web stuff), I will spend time with you making sure that you've fully thought through your project. I will tell you how to make it cheaper, better, more useful. I'll help you write the spec (for a fee); and if you decide not to buy my development services, I'll happily hand over that spec and help you select a different engineer. I will tell you if the gee-whiz technology you've chosen is actually a bad fit, or massively too expensive, or if there's an equivalent open-source tool. I'll tell you up front if your deadline is unrealistic, or if your cost analysis is over optimistic. I will organize quality assurance (if you're willing to pay). I'll even tell you if your project has already been built, is available off the shelf, and where you can get it--I've saved lots of clients tens of thousands of bucks by pointing out that there's a command on OSX that already does that.
I'll make estimates that accurately reflect reality.
My code will be well-organized and readable. It will follow code style conventions. It will be extensible (or at least editable). There will be unit tests attached to (most) functional units. I will use commodity file formats. I will include support tools (file editors, etc.) if necessary, and those will actually work--so you aren't editing XML or whatever by hand. My code will be commented and documented in plain (programmer) English.
An off-shore company will not do any of that for the $15/hour you're expecting to pay. Their sole goal is to produce a product that appears to work correctly, in as many hours, for as little work as possible, so that you will pay them and move on.
What's more, at some point, you're going to want to change something. Because the code is going to be a steaming mess, that change is going to be quite expensive.
This is all new to me so something that seems obvious to you might not be as obvious to me.
My experience with off-shore companies marketing themselves for small projects is that they're usually just bloody terrible.
This is not at all in the slightest to say that programmers from those countries are terrible. It's to say that the bright ones are doing hard work on interesting projects, and charging market rates for legitimate projects. They're not any cheaper than an on-shore engineer, because they're every bit as skilled and valuable.
But the ones who are offering to work for $15/hour are pretty much worth exactly that. There's a reason they're so inexpensive.
posted by Netzapper at 11:17 PM on April 4, 2010 [7 favorites]
Are you looking for a developer or a bunch of developers? Will they be temporary or do you expect to have them do ongoing work? What is the ultimate size of the work for the contracting firm, do you expect a growing/ongoing relationship, or is this a one night stand? Do you have established processes, templates and project controls? To what extent are your current projects hindered by communications breakdowns and misunderstandings. Offshore developers can be a great way to scale out aspects of your organization but you have to have lots of experience managing local teams before you go to this model. The leverage of offshore development can produce a ton of crap in a very short period of time if you don't know what you are doing. You should be careful to set expectations with the vendor appropriately. One tip for larger scale projects. Put one of your people on site at their office for part of the project and have some of their folks come out for a kickoff. A little work in building team dynamics will go a long way towards getting your project completed successfully.
posted by humanfont at 12:03 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by humanfont at 12:03 AM on April 5, 2010
"Maybe I needing later" is surely apocryphal. First, why would the programmer write "Maybe I needing later"? He surely knows why he's including the code. Secondly, why would he write the note in English, rather than his purported native language? Similarly, why would he use "delete all files" as the trigger? The whole thing doesn't add up.
But I don't disagree with the advice above. I've had to deal with overseas service providers in connection with a project for a financial services company, and it was difficult, to say the least. (I am not a tech person.)
posted by Admiral Haddock at 5:22 AM on April 5, 2010
But I don't disagree with the advice above. I've had to deal with overseas service providers in connection with a project for a financial services company, and it was difficult, to say the least. (I am not a tech person.)
posted by Admiral Haddock at 5:22 AM on April 5, 2010
We hired a dev in India to write the spec for a project. After 3 weeks at $17/hr, he sent back a scpec...that had been plagiarized from freely available web pages. That weren't even relevant. Good luck!
posted by miyabo at 6:11 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by miyabo at 6:11 AM on April 5, 2010
You may find this somewhat related question helpful. Personally I have had both great experiences with offshore firms as well as terrible ones. It's a mixed bag.
posted by phoenixy at 7:13 AM on April 5, 2010
posted by phoenixy at 7:13 AM on April 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
and its follow-up, Dear Proggit: Why the Hatred for India?
will give you many cautionary tales.
tl;dr: if you've never managed a project on-shore, you may well find it more costly overall to off-shore.
posted by orthogonality at 8:35 PM on April 4, 2010