"Research" for a "book"...
April 1, 2010 9:04 PM Subscribe
Is there a name for this type of scam?
A customer walks into a store to buy $1000 worth of goods. A salesperson offers 20% off if the customer slips him $100 dollars under the table. The customer is $100 better off, the salesperson is $100 better off*, the store is $200 worse off.
(*Assuming no commission)
I've always heard of it as the undercharge.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:12 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by infinitewindow at 9:12 PM on April 1, 2010
It sounds impractical. That might be why there isn't a name for it.
posted by clockzero at 9:45 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by clockzero at 9:45 PM on April 1, 2010
Is this an NY thing? I've never experienced anything like it, even when traveling abroad. My curiosity is piqued.
The term for it might be FIRED.
posted by 2oh1 at 9:50 PM on April 1, 2010
The term for it might be FIRED.
posted by 2oh1 at 9:50 PM on April 1, 2010
You said it in your OP - "getting paid under the table."
posted by MesoFilter at 10:00 PM on April 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by MesoFilter at 10:00 PM on April 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Giving your friends discounted or free merchandise is called "sweethearting." This sounds similar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweethearting
posted by Slinga at 10:04 PM on April 1, 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweethearting
posted by Slinga at 10:04 PM on April 1, 2010
So, in the OP you assumed that this guy got $100 under the table from his boss?
"It was supposed to be $200 more, but they made a deal under the table."
It's any transaction that's supposed to be hidden from the view of others.
posted by MesoFilter at 10:14 PM on April 1, 2010
"It was supposed to be $200 more, but they made a deal under the table."
It's any transaction that's supposed to be hidden from the view of others.
posted by MesoFilter at 10:14 PM on April 1, 2010
The problem is, how does the sales clerk reduce the price without getting caught afterwards?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:18 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:18 PM on April 1, 2010
Anyway, generically what you're talking about (in different forms which can be concealed) is a kickback.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:18 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:18 PM on April 1, 2010
The salesperson could have authorization to give a discount below list price, or the store could have a standard bulk discount. An honest salesman would just give that discount to the customer, but the dishonest one will take the cash under the table.
posted by Wulfhere at 10:29 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by Wulfhere at 10:29 PM on April 1, 2010
Definitely a kickback. I'm not sure why you think it doesn't matter. The $200 is coming off the store, right? Sure, it didn't exist until the guy walked in and initiated the transaction, but there it is. The customer takes half, the employee takes half.
Here's the DOJ using "kickback" in three distinct ways in the same case.
On the other hand, you'd have to have some pretty loose inventory/accounting practices to allow this on any scale, and if that's the case, then why not have the item "fall off the truck" and the employee takes the whole discounted price? Certainly this is the more common way it would go. Why record a transaction at all, if it's a lowball?
posted by dhartung at 10:29 PM on April 1, 2010
Here's the DOJ using "kickback" in three distinct ways in the same case.
On the other hand, you'd have to have some pretty loose inventory/accounting practices to allow this on any scale, and if that's the case, then why not have the item "fall off the truck" and the employee takes the whole discounted price? Certainly this is the more common way it would go. Why record a transaction at all, if it's a lowball?
posted by dhartung at 10:29 PM on April 1, 2010
A lot of people (especially on Consumerist.org) get up in arms about the whole check-your-receipt-at-the-door thing, but that practice exists almost exclusively to deal with this kind of theft (and the occasional, brazen walking-out-with-a-cartful-of-goods-but-no-receipt incident.) At the place I worked, they called it underscanning.
Back in the day, I worked at a grocery store, and rather than check receipts at the door they had cameras pointing straight down over the scanner at each checking station. Security personnel would keep an eye on the checkers, making sure they weren't fake-scanning items or bypassing the scanner entirely -- nevertheless, every so often someone would get fired for filling up a shopping cart but only charging $50.
I vividly remember the day someone came in and eliminated the middleman; they filled up an entire cart with goods, got their groceries bagged and put in the cart, then took issue with the price of an item. It was a busy day, so the checker ended up having to run herself for the pricecheck, and the person with the cart full of food asked a bagger to help her out to her car -- after which she drove away. Meanwhile, the checker had come back, found the person gone, and was anxiously trying to find her inside the store.
posted by davejay at 10:33 PM on April 1, 2010
Back in the day, I worked at a grocery store, and rather than check receipts at the door they had cameras pointing straight down over the scanner at each checking station. Security personnel would keep an eye on the checkers, making sure they weren't fake-scanning items or bypassing the scanner entirely -- nevertheless, every so often someone would get fired for filling up a shopping cart but only charging $50.
I vividly remember the day someone came in and eliminated the middleman; they filled up an entire cart with goods, got their groceries bagged and put in the cart, then took issue with the price of an item. It was a busy day, so the checker ended up having to run herself for the pricecheck, and the person with the cart full of food asked a bagger to help her out to her car -- after which she drove away. Meanwhile, the checker had come back, found the person gone, and was anxiously trying to find her inside the store.
posted by davejay at 10:33 PM on April 1, 2010
What if I have an exclusive $200 off coupon that I sell to a friend for $100? Same essential transaction but replacing the salesman with me.
While I'm sure this is technically against the coupon's specifications, it doesn't seem like a scam to me at all when framed this way.
1. The company put the coupon out there to encourage sales.
2. The friend saves $100 they wouldn't have otherwise.
3. I get $100.
One could argue that the company doesn't really lose even in the original situation if the discount encourages a sale that wouldn't otherwise have happened -- as long as the company still makes a profit. If the customer walks away without buying anything, the company loses too.
posted by thorny at 10:57 PM on April 1, 2010
While I'm sure this is technically against the coupon's specifications, it doesn't seem like a scam to me at all when framed this way.
1. The company put the coupon out there to encourage sales.
2. The friend saves $100 they wouldn't have otherwise.
3. I get $100.
One could argue that the company doesn't really lose even in the original situation if the discount encourages a sale that wouldn't otherwise have happened -- as long as the company still makes a profit. If the customer walks away without buying anything, the company loses too.
posted by thorny at 10:57 PM on April 1, 2010
A good article on store clerks running scams similar to what the OP has in mind, but with gift cards.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:11 PM on April 1, 2010
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 11:11 PM on April 1, 2010
We used to call this "under ringing" way back in the day. It was rampant before UPC codes and scanners were implemented. Like "sweethearting" mentioned above, it usually took place between people who knew one another, and was almost always young people. The pros, however, would actually have members of their group get jobs as cashiers and then the merchandise would seem to fly out the door to be sold later at flea markets. With the high turnover rate of cashiers, it was a real problem. Ah.... Now you're giving me fond memories of racing out of the store and tackling people in the parking lot for retail theft. The pay was crap, the job generally sucked and certainly had no future, but the above adventures combined with the vast numbers of attractive, young, single female employees who were quite eager to go out after work made for a special time in my life.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 12:23 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 12:23 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
sometimes the customer is left out all together, or at least they're not in on the scheme. i fired someone at the portrait studio for stealing money. when you go to pick up your pictures, the extra ones they print - well they were 20 bucks plus tax, and the employee would charge them 20 bucks even and pocket the cash. it was very hard to track because those pictures go into huge stacks that are shredded a few times a year. the volume is too high to reasonably track them.
i also know a photographer that got fired for using coupons after the customer left, but before the sale was completed. receipts can be printed at any time of the check out process, so unless you knew what you were looking for it was near impossible to catch.
there's a lot of stupid people who steal from the company, but those who are satisfied with small gains over a long time are often more successful.
posted by nadawi at 12:32 AM on April 2, 2010
i also know a photographer that got fired for using coupons after the customer left, but before the sale was completed. receipts can be printed at any time of the check out process, so unless you knew what you were looking for it was near impossible to catch.
there's a lot of stupid people who steal from the company, but those who are satisfied with small gains over a long time are often more successful.
posted by nadawi at 12:32 AM on April 2, 2010
I'm pretty sure stores that negotiate prices with customers (furniture, cars, jewelry, appliances) use commissions in order to discourage salesperson kickbacks.
(Kickbacks happen all the time for buyers though...frequent flier miles, gas cards, and office supply store rebates are all intended to influence the purchaser rather than the purchaser's employer.)
posted by miyabo at 5:06 AM on April 2, 2010
(Kickbacks happen all the time for buyers though...frequent flier miles, gas cards, and office supply store rebates are all intended to influence the purchaser rather than the purchaser's employer.)
posted by miyabo at 5:06 AM on April 2, 2010
This happens everyday in the bar business. Wiping drinks off the bar tabs in the expectation that the tip is appropriately higher. I never thought to call it kickbacks, though that is precisely what it is.
posted by newpotato at 5:28 AM on April 2, 2010
posted by newpotato at 5:28 AM on April 2, 2010
I'm surprised nobody's used the word embezzlement yet.
posted by aimedwander at 5:59 AM on April 2, 2010
posted by aimedwander at 5:59 AM on April 2, 2010
The problem is, how does the sales clerk reduce the price without getting caught afterwards?
The last time I went to get batteries replaced and wristbands adjusted for a few old watches, the teenager behind the counter at the watch store told me if I paid in cash and didn't need a receipt he would "hook me up." I assume that was because with cash he could pocket part of it and ring up a smaller sale than what I actually bought. Most of what I was paying for was a service, so there were no inventory issues to worry about, and there was nobody else in the store with him so he could make the offer to a random customer like me without worrying about getting caught.
posted by burnmp3s at 6:47 AM on April 2, 2010
The last time I went to get batteries replaced and wristbands adjusted for a few old watches, the teenager behind the counter at the watch store told me if I paid in cash and didn't need a receipt he would "hook me up." I assume that was because with cash he could pocket part of it and ring up a smaller sale than what I actually bought. Most of what I was paying for was a service, so there were no inventory issues to worry about, and there was nobody else in the store with him so he could make the offer to a random customer like me without worrying about getting caught.
posted by burnmp3s at 6:47 AM on April 2, 2010
This happens everyday in the bar business. Wiping drinks off the bar tabs in the expectation that the tip is appropriately higher. I never thought to call it kickbacks, though that is precisely what it is.
In a bar, most people call this a buyback.
posted by jeb at 7:29 AM on April 2, 2010
In a bar, most people call this a buyback.
posted by jeb at 7:29 AM on April 2, 2010
Ditto that you see this happening all the time in bartending.
posted by salvia at 9:21 AM on April 2, 2010
posted by salvia at 9:21 AM on April 2, 2010
This happened recently at our co-op. Different M.O., but in the same neighborhood.
posted by everichon at 1:13 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by everichon at 1:13 PM on April 2, 2010
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posted by 2bucksplus at 9:05 PM on April 1, 2010