Copious amounts of snot
March 27, 2010 1:04 PM Subscribe
Seasonal allergies: sign of a weak immune system, a healthy one, or just pollen-wrought hell over which I have no control?
A friend implied to me that because I suffer from allergies, my immune system is compromised. I disagree but can't back it up with facts from my own brain. Thanks for input!
A friend implied to me that because I suffer from allergies, my immune system is compromised. I disagree but can't back it up with facts from my own brain. Thanks for input!
Allergies are the result of a hypersensitive immune system, not a compromised one.
This question is easily googleable.
posted by ook at 1:10 PM on March 27, 2010
This question is easily googleable.
posted by ook at 1:10 PM on March 27, 2010
Response by poster: I'm google-capable, thx. I trust the hive's opinion over the first 10 pages of search results.
Anyway I guess what I really want to be able to say is, "My allergies are a disorder, not a result of my lifestyle." Is this a correct conclusion? Thanks a bunch.
posted by sarelicar at 1:25 PM on March 27, 2010
Anyway I guess what I really want to be able to say is, "My allergies are a disorder, not a result of my lifestyle." Is this a correct conclusion? Thanks a bunch.
posted by sarelicar at 1:25 PM on March 27, 2010
the first hit on ook's google search above was written by doctors at a University. This one, also on that page, was written by scientists at the NIH. How is that less trustworthy than the totally random people here?
From the NIH allergies page: "An allergy is an exaggerated immune response or reaction to substances that are generally not harmful." and "Allergies are relatively common. Both genetics and environmental factors play a role.". So no, it's not a weakened immune system, weakened systems aren't capable of exaggerated responses. Consider that pretty much all allergy treatments are immune suppressors (steroids, antihistamines).
It's also not likely to be caused by your lifestyle but the exact causes are complicated, so something you're doing may be making it worse (or, more likely, something you did while your immune system was developing lead to this effect).
posted by shelleycat at 1:37 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
From the NIH allergies page: "An allergy is an exaggerated immune response or reaction to substances that are generally not harmful." and "Allergies are relatively common. Both genetics and environmental factors play a role.". So no, it's not a weakened immune system, weakened systems aren't capable of exaggerated responses. Consider that pretty much all allergy treatments are immune suppressors (steroids, antihistamines).
It's also not likely to be caused by your lifestyle but the exact causes are complicated, so something you're doing may be making it worse (or, more likely, something you did while your immune system was developing lead to this effect).
posted by shelleycat at 1:37 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's a disorder, not a lifestyle. Unless your lifestyle involves snorting pollen, then it's a lifestyle problem. The disorder conclusion falsely assumes there's such a thing as a bog-standard immune system though, which is probably not true either.
posted by chairface at 1:40 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by chairface at 1:40 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, interestingly, I have heard said that supplements of vitamins C and E can help at least slightly in diminishing "hay fever" and other seasonal allergies. Has seemed to work for me on occasion. Certainly it is fairly well-documented that "lifestyle factors" e.g. diet, stress, sleep can have measurable effects on the immune system. If stress and/or sleep insufficiency can weaken the immune system, why would it not be possible that in some individuals it could overstimulate the immune system?
posted by RRgal at 2:05 PM on March 27, 2010
posted by RRgal at 2:05 PM on March 27, 2010
Well, that's a bit of a semantic question. For example, you can downregulate an overactive immune system through diet and lifestyle changes - to a degree. But there are also allergies where the immune system is out of whack and there's nothing you can do other than medical interventions through avoidance/therapies/medication. IOW - it depends what kind of disorder you have.
Generally, fish and fish oil are thought to dampen the inflammatory response. Exercise is good. Possibly red wine (in moderation - 1-2 drinks a day). Being on a very low calorie diet (google "caloric restriction" or CRON) definitely has an impact in optimizing the immune system so it's less likely to become overactive. But how realistic is it that you'll be able to do all this? For example CR (caloric restriction) is a very hard diet to follow, even though it's the healthiest diet out there.
But if you have a severe immune disorder, no lifestyle change is going to eliminate it - it's time for a medical intervention.
posted by VikingSword at 2:09 PM on March 27, 2010
Generally, fish and fish oil are thought to dampen the inflammatory response. Exercise is good. Possibly red wine (in moderation - 1-2 drinks a day). Being on a very low calorie diet (google "caloric restriction" or CRON) definitely has an impact in optimizing the immune system so it's less likely to become overactive. But how realistic is it that you'll be able to do all this? For example CR (caloric restriction) is a very hard diet to follow, even though it's the healthiest diet out there.
But if you have a severe immune disorder, no lifestyle change is going to eliminate it - it's time for a medical intervention.
posted by VikingSword at 2:09 PM on March 27, 2010
LiveScience || March 26, 2010: Allergies are mysteriously on the rise in U.S. -- "The number of those with allergies is 2 to 5 times higher than 30 years ago."
posted by ericb at 3:00 PM on March 27, 2010
posted by ericb at 3:00 PM on March 27, 2010
One of the prevailing hypothesis is hygeine hypothesis which gives some background on allregies which is a predoinant Th2 response which is as a result of lack of exposure to infections in early childhood. This hypothesis also tries to explains the rise of allergies in the western world.
The classical experiment which has ben demonstrated in the lab is to be able to switch the Th2 response to a Th1 response by challenging with heat shock proteins which are found in several infectious disease organisms such as TB. Some of these HSPs have also made it to the clinic as 'vaccines' but I am not sure if any of them have made it to the market.
posted by london302 at 3:39 PM on March 27, 2010
The classical experiment which has ben demonstrated in the lab is to be able to switch the Th2 response to a Th1 response by challenging with heat shock proteins which are found in several infectious disease organisms such as TB. Some of these HSPs have also made it to the clinic as 'vaccines' but I am not sure if any of them have made it to the market.
posted by london302 at 3:39 PM on March 27, 2010
Well, here's some non-science for you: I assumed allergies were the result of an over-zealous immune system, not a compromised one. It responds to false alarms, like OMG RAGWEED POLLEN. It's just mistaken.
Allergies aren't the same as sickness. If you remove the allergen, you're okay, but if you're sick, you're sick, no matter what's in the air. I think being sick a lot is the result of a compromised immune system but having allergies is like your body's responses are just being run by some super neurotic pilot that panics about nothing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:04 PM on March 27, 2010
Allergies aren't the same as sickness. If you remove the allergen, you're okay, but if you're sick, you're sick, no matter what's in the air. I think being sick a lot is the result of a compromised immune system but having allergies is like your body's responses are just being run by some super neurotic pilot that panics about nothing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:04 PM on March 27, 2010
> pollen-wrought hell over which I have no control
Well, you do have control, right? You can buy air filters (very helpful), get better allergy meds, get allergy shots, etc. There is no reason to live with allergies; there are plenty of ways to treat them.
posted by jrockway at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2010
Well, you do have control, right? You can buy air filters (very helpful), get better allergy meds, get allergy shots, etc. There is no reason to live with allergies; there are plenty of ways to treat them.
posted by jrockway at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you all for your insight and advice! It's much appreciated. I'll try some supplements on top of my Zyrtec/local honey cocktail.
And I'll stop doing lines of pollen off of a hooker's ass.
posted by sarelicar at 6:23 PM on March 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
And I'll stop doing lines of pollen off of a hooker's ass.
posted by sarelicar at 6:23 PM on March 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
Rather than Google, I recommend the NIH's Medlineplus.org as a great starting point for basic medical info.
Google doesn't do well on basic medical queries in my experience - too many dodgy results.
posted by zippy at 6:24 PM on March 27, 2010
Google doesn't do well on basic medical queries in my experience - too many dodgy results.
posted by zippy at 6:24 PM on March 27, 2010
nth-ing pollen-wrought hell over which you can have pretty good control. Prescription nasal sprays and Fexofenadine (Allegra) have made summers bearable for me. Praise meds!
posted by zippy at 6:26 PM on March 27, 2010
posted by zippy at 6:26 PM on March 27, 2010
Allergies may be a sign that your gut contains fewer hookworms than were normal throughout most of our ancestors' evolution. A fun place to hear about this is Radiolab's podcast about Parasites. It seems that hookworms do reduce allergies.
posted by Ery at 6:32 PM on March 27, 2010
posted by Ery at 6:32 PM on March 27, 2010
I'll try some supplements on top of my Zyrtec/local honey cocktail.
Ug, this is what you get when you ask a random bunch of people rather than a doctor or someone educated in this area. You don't need supplements. Your friend is wrong about the mechanism, you seem to now be confused about the treatment and cause. Please ignore the non-science here and if your allergies aren't under control talk with a doctor.
posted by shelleycat at 6:47 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ug, this is what you get when you ask a random bunch of people rather than a doctor or someone educated in this area. You don't need supplements. Your friend is wrong about the mechanism, you seem to now be confused about the treatment and cause. Please ignore the non-science here and if your allergies aren't under control talk with a doctor.
posted by shelleycat at 6:47 PM on March 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have suffered from very bad seasonal allergies for as long as I can remember. The "season" goes from May-October. Nothing helped until Zyrtec. This year it stopped working and the allergies continued. After testing, I found out I'm (severely) allergic to cats, though I grew up with cats and have had them consistently my whole life. After trying all the prescription meds, which didn't help, I started shots 6 weeks ago. For the first time in 11 months, I am starting to feel better.
I RARELY get colds or viruses or get sick at all, and I can't remember the last time I got the flu, so that would contradict your friend's theory, which is, in fact, erroneous.
There are lots of meds out there for allergies, but all are a band-aid. They will suppress the symptoms to different degrees depending on the person. The shots are the only thing that actually cures you, but you have to do it weekly for a few years. To this end, I've just learned to inject myself so I don't have to make a weekly doctor's visit. I am so glad I did this, because I was abjectly miserable for a long time.
posted by FlyByDay at 9:10 PM on March 27, 2010
I RARELY get colds or viruses or get sick at all, and I can't remember the last time I got the flu, so that would contradict your friend's theory, which is, in fact, erroneous.
There are lots of meds out there for allergies, but all are a band-aid. They will suppress the symptoms to different degrees depending on the person. The shots are the only thing that actually cures you, but you have to do it weekly for a few years. To this end, I've just learned to inject myself so I don't have to make a weekly doctor's visit. I am so glad I did this, because I was abjectly miserable for a long time.
posted by FlyByDay at 9:10 PM on March 27, 2010
Fwiw my stepmother has no allergies at all and seems to get sick a LOT more frequently than allergic me :) In spite of numerous adult-onset food allergies (this runs in my family) and a lifetime of eczema-type stuff, I very seldom get sick and feel like I have an excellent immune system. I think there is also a strong genetic component to allergies which has nothing to do with 'immunity' and more to do with what genes your parents give you. I made a medical history for my doctor when he was diagnosing my food stuff (which all came about around my 30s) and every generation of the family tree had numerous people with allergies, and they were all the same ones. We just seem to have a family history for it. But we also have a family history of longevity, so we don't seem to be 'sick' people.
posted by JoannaC at 9:53 PM on March 27, 2010
posted by JoannaC at 9:53 PM on March 27, 2010
shelleycat has it. AskMe is not your doctor, and this thread is good evidence of why that's a good thing.
You'll be wasting your time with the supplements. What evidence there is for any of them as "immune system modulators" (a fundamentally bad metaphor) is weak, and contradictory. And waaaaaaaaaay overhyped to take advantage of the gullible.
I will say it clearly for emphasis: there are no dietary supplements on the market that have any significant measurable effect confirmed in large scale randomized trials on your immune system. Period. Anything for which there is even the slightest bit of dubious evidence also has a mountain of less dubious evidence on the other side (and this is generally true for most "supplements," and their hyped "effects," including your basic multivitamins). You're better off taking Zyrtec. At least you know what it does, and what the side effects and risks of taking it (minimal) are.
Have you considered the obvious approach of seeing an allergist for sensitivity-reducing treatment? Works like a charm for many people I know, although it's a pain in the ass for a few months while you're getting the shots. I have a good friend who has just been effectively cured of terrible tree pollen allergies by a course of shots. Cured.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:03 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
You'll be wasting your time with the supplements. What evidence there is for any of them as "immune system modulators" (a fundamentally bad metaphor) is weak, and contradictory. And waaaaaaaaaay overhyped to take advantage of the gullible.
I will say it clearly for emphasis: there are no dietary supplements on the market that have any significant measurable effect confirmed in large scale randomized trials on your immune system. Period. Anything for which there is even the slightest bit of dubious evidence also has a mountain of less dubious evidence on the other side (and this is generally true for most "supplements," and their hyped "effects," including your basic multivitamins). You're better off taking Zyrtec. At least you know what it does, and what the side effects and risks of taking it (minimal) are.
Have you considered the obvious approach of seeing an allergist for sensitivity-reducing treatment? Works like a charm for many people I know, although it's a pain in the ass for a few months while you're getting the shots. I have a good friend who has just been effectively cured of terrible tree pollen allergies by a course of shots. Cured.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:03 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
there are no dietary supplements on the market that have any significant measurable effect confirmed in large scale randomized trials on your immune system.
But see this isn't quite true either. There are some food compounds which have consistently shown beneficial effects on "the immune system" including in clinical trials (not large scale ones yet but that's partially because we don't yet understand how to stratify the underlying population first).
But none of them have anything to do with allergies because it's just a small part of a huge complicated, redundant, overlapping mess of biology that forms our host defense response in general. This is why it's so hard to understand what evidence there is out there, just suppressing an immune response doesn't really mean anything unless you understand exactly which response and what to and why and what's happening to all the other sections of the immune system, and that's really hard even for the scientists. So hand wavey answers about 'strong' or 'weak' immune systems don't really mean anything because most likely we all have both to various degrees. Which is also why the vague and unsatisfying statement from the NIH I posted above "Both genetics and environmental factors play a role." is really how things are.
posted by shelleycat at 8:24 PM on March 29, 2010
But see this isn't quite true either. There are some food compounds which have consistently shown beneficial effects on "the immune system" including in clinical trials (not large scale ones yet but that's partially because we don't yet understand how to stratify the underlying population first).
But none of them have anything to do with allergies because it's just a small part of a huge complicated, redundant, overlapping mess of biology that forms our host defense response in general. This is why it's so hard to understand what evidence there is out there, just suppressing an immune response doesn't really mean anything unless you understand exactly which response and what to and why and what's happening to all the other sections of the immune system, and that's really hard even for the scientists. So hand wavey answers about 'strong' or 'weak' immune systems don't really mean anything because most likely we all have both to various degrees. Which is also why the vague and unsatisfying statement from the NIH I posted above "Both genetics and environmental factors play a role." is really how things are.
posted by shelleycat at 8:24 PM on March 29, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by craichead at 1:08 PM on March 27, 2010 [2 favorites]