You're an asshole, Mr. Grinch, Esq.
March 21, 2010 2:35 AM Subscribe
What is the difference between having flexible ethics and being a perpetual 12 year old? More importantly, how can I redeem myself to you and to the rest of the world?
I've posted before and spat venom at my responders. I've come around to their way of thinking, almost 18 months later. I was a yuppie shit kid before, and I had sewn a great deal of negativity in both my soul and those who dared to indulge me.
What I reaped was my massive ego. I decimated everything handily, sleeping around and buying whatever came my way (in Vancouver, this was a lot.) Upon realizing that I'd just destroyed my life and that of my fiancee, I fell to the ground and wept, repented to my friends and tried to make amends. To tap Mr. Lahey, I climbed the shitstalk and slew the shitgiant that was my own ego.
So here I am, back where I started, three years later, with nothing. A former egomaniac, now driven to rebuild his sense of self-worth, but this time without sex addiction to falsely bolster his megalomania. I haven't been near a woman, drugs or a stiff drink in about 8 months.
How can I rebuild my sober self?
I've posted before and spat venom at my responders. I've come around to their way of thinking, almost 18 months later. I was a yuppie shit kid before, and I had sewn a great deal of negativity in both my soul and those who dared to indulge me.
What I reaped was my massive ego. I decimated everything handily, sleeping around and buying whatever came my way (in Vancouver, this was a lot.) Upon realizing that I'd just destroyed my life and that of my fiancee, I fell to the ground and wept, repented to my friends and tried to make amends. To tap Mr. Lahey, I climbed the shitstalk and slew the shitgiant that was my own ego.
So here I am, back where I started, three years later, with nothing. A former egomaniac, now driven to rebuild his sense of self-worth, but this time without sex addiction to falsely bolster his megalomania. I haven't been near a woman, drugs or a stiff drink in about 8 months.
How can I rebuild my sober self?
This post was deleted for the following reason: I'm glad you're working on stuff, but askme isn't really the place to apologize to people (in specific or in abstract) and this is feeling more like you chatting about your mental state than trying to get a concrete answer to a clear question. Maybe figure out what the core question is and try again next week? -- cortex
Learn good manners and be kind.
posted by Abiezer at 3:03 AM on March 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 3:03 AM on March 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Less Creative Writing.
posted by meadowlark lime at 3:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by meadowlark lime at 3:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Houstonian: Fixing my life.
Abiezer: Yeah. But I've never had either, so how?
posted by electronslave at 3:14 AM on March 21, 2010
Abiezer: Yeah. But I've never had either, so how?
posted by electronslave at 3:14 AM on March 21, 2010
Pay attention to people who do.
posted by flabdablet at 3:22 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by flabdablet at 3:22 AM on March 21, 2010
If you want help with homelessness, are you truly without shelter? Like, you are typing this from a library, you live under an overpass, you shower at the gas station? Or you have shelter, but are dissatisfied with it? Where on the planet are you? What resources have you tried, and what happened when you tried them?
If you want help with joblessness, where on the planet are you looking? What industries and job experience do you have? What resources have you tried, and what happened when you tried them?
posted by Houstonian at 3:22 AM on March 21, 2010
If you want help with joblessness, where on the planet are you looking? What industries and job experience do you have? What resources have you tried, and what happened when you tried them?
posted by Houstonian at 3:22 AM on March 21, 2010
Best answer: The two biggies:
- DO NOT continue to romanticize the experience (reread your post, Mr Caulfield - sheesh).
- DO put together a BRIEF no-shit story about what you have been doing (1 sentence), what turned you around (2 sentences), and why the person you are talking to should have confidence in you and help you go forward (1 minute at most).
The rest:
- DO take advantage of all the programs that are there to help people in your place - job training, shelters, meal programs, tuition assistance, etc. AskMe probably has advice for your city.
- DO find a regular job and a regular schedule. You had a "yuppie" background? Try some really hard work. You need manners? Find a type of work where you can get a mentor or role model. Consider an arrangement of your labor for room and board. It'll cover some of your urgent issues and be easier to find in current economic situation. A trade? Farming? What can you do?
- DO find a reason to care, live, and BE kind and good. It's hard if no one else gives a shit. After you're done working, get involved in some volunteer work. Learn to be compassionate by working with compassionate people.
- DO NOT go back to the old ruts: if you can start over with a new social circle, new physical surroundings, it can alleviate connections to old habits. Move in with family in the country? Have an old school friend on the other coast?
- DO NOT define yourself by your past. Who are you NOW? (This is tied in with the "old ruts" comment, as starting over can help you redefine yourself.)
- DO stay busy. Busy keeps some of us out of trouble.
posted by whatzit at 3:26 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
- DO NOT continue to romanticize the experience (reread your post, Mr Caulfield - sheesh).
- DO put together a BRIEF no-shit story about what you have been doing (1 sentence), what turned you around (2 sentences), and why the person you are talking to should have confidence in you and help you go forward (1 minute at most).
The rest:
- DO take advantage of all the programs that are there to help people in your place - job training, shelters, meal programs, tuition assistance, etc. AskMe probably has advice for your city.
- DO find a regular job and a regular schedule. You had a "yuppie" background? Try some really hard work. You need manners? Find a type of work where you can get a mentor or role model. Consider an arrangement of your labor for room and board. It'll cover some of your urgent issues and be easier to find in current economic situation. A trade? Farming? What can you do?
- DO find a reason to care, live, and BE kind and good. It's hard if no one else gives a shit. After you're done working, get involved in some volunteer work. Learn to be compassionate by working with compassionate people.
- DO NOT go back to the old ruts: if you can start over with a new social circle, new physical surroundings, it can alleviate connections to old habits. Move in with family in the country? Have an old school friend on the other coast?
- DO NOT define yourself by your past. Who are you NOW? (This is tied in with the "old ruts" comment, as starting over can help you redefine yourself.)
- DO stay busy. Busy keeps some of us out of trouble.
posted by whatzit at 3:26 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Houstonian: Nah, I'm transitioning out of that homeless phase into something more permanent. I just got an apartment, and I'm super-stoked. For the first time since I left Vancouver, I'm permanent.
I'm covered on the job front. I make enough to pay taxes and contribute to charities I borrowed from not even a year ago. I'm covered there.
I want to rebuild my psyche. I destroyed a lot of good will along the way, and not just through weed/alcohol/heroin/crack. The most was through my own intolerance and deliberate evil. I've made amends with family and everyone I possibly can, but now I have to slog through the dregs of what I left behind. It's my bed, you see, and I've determined that I shall lie in it.
posted by electronslave at 3:27 AM on March 21, 2010
I'm covered on the job front. I make enough to pay taxes and contribute to charities I borrowed from not even a year ago. I'm covered there.
I want to rebuild my psyche. I destroyed a lot of good will along the way, and not just through weed/alcohol/heroin/crack. The most was through my own intolerance and deliberate evil. I've made amends with family and everyone I possibly can, but now I have to slog through the dregs of what I left behind. It's my bed, you see, and I've determined that I shall lie in it.
posted by electronslave at 3:27 AM on March 21, 2010
How old are you? If you truly believe that you are deliberately evil you should probably get some therapy.
posted by pintapicasso at 3:30 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by pintapicasso at 3:30 AM on March 21, 2010
Congratulations on reaching bottom. The only way out is up and it's a slow journey. Don't get ahead of yourself. Keep your efforts in today and appreciate the gift you've been given. Appreciate that your pain is teacher. What can you learn from it? The amends and giving back will happen later. For today stay where you are.
posted by Xurando at 3:33 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by Xurando at 3:33 AM on March 21, 2010
Response by poster: whatzit: I'm making 6 figures in the software industry through a few lucky breaks, and through a few more contacts, I'm about to get VC funding for my next idea. Doesn't speak of where I've been in the last few years, I'm sure.
As I say, I'm more interested in the human factor, like that one you mention about being kind and caring and living. I want to help. I mean, my god, I see people I've been down and out with every other day, but my place is strange. I walk on a higher plane now, and I turn my face to them as if I am better now, and it's frightening, honestly. I want to make amends without sacrificing my social station.
As for your idea about time, busy in my case means doing rich-man things. Flying planes, golf, hell -- tennis even. It all feels hollow, and it winds up with me thinking of my former fiancee, hitting the bottle and wanting to kill everyone. Not where I want to be.
posted by electronslave at 3:34 AM on March 21, 2010
As I say, I'm more interested in the human factor, like that one you mention about being kind and caring and living. I want to help. I mean, my god, I see people I've been down and out with every other day, but my place is strange. I walk on a higher plane now, and I turn my face to them as if I am better now, and it's frightening, honestly. I want to make amends without sacrificing my social station.
As for your idea about time, busy in my case means doing rich-man things. Flying planes, golf, hell -- tennis even. It all feels hollow, and it winds up with me thinking of my former fiancee, hitting the bottle and wanting to kill everyone. Not where I want to be.
posted by electronslave at 3:34 AM on March 21, 2010
Response by poster: Xurando: I will always be in this low place. My attempts to scrape myself out will end in more limestone under my fingernails and more bloody sores on the tips of my fingers. Escape from this mental realm is for fools, and I truly recognize the depths of humanity reached only by divorcees and drunkards, if only because I'm here with both.
I can learn only that I have failed myself and everyone around me. My next step is prescribed chemical medication, like that Australian girl I dated once did.
posted by electronslave at 3:37 AM on March 21, 2010
I can learn only that I have failed myself and everyone around me. My next step is prescribed chemical medication, like that Australian girl I dated once did.
posted by electronslave at 3:37 AM on March 21, 2010
Also: the world at large couldn't give two hoots about your redemption. People without prior experience of you will take you as they find you. People with prior experience of you (by the sound of it) might take a while to forgive you your trespasses; if you get opportunities to redeem yourself in their eyes, taking those would probably help. But don't push that.
It's my bed, you see, and I've determined that I shall lie in it.
Dialling the self-flagellation back a few notches would help people react to you more positively. You may not be an egotist prick any more, but you're still writing like a fairly massive drama queen.
You might benefit from learning to take your self-image less seriously. Really, all you need to do is keep paying attention to not being a dick.
I will always be in this low place. My attempts to scrape myself out will end in more limestone under my fingernails and more bloody sores on the tips of my fingers.
Would you inflict that kind of bullshit on anybody else?
posted by flabdablet at 3:43 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
It's my bed, you see, and I've determined that I shall lie in it.
Dialling the self-flagellation back a few notches would help people react to you more positively. You may not be an egotist prick any more, but you're still writing like a fairly massive drama queen.
You might benefit from learning to take your self-image less seriously. Really, all you need to do is keep paying attention to not being a dick.
I will always be in this low place. My attempts to scrape myself out will end in more limestone under my fingernails and more bloody sores on the tips of my fingers.
Would you inflict that kind of bullshit on anybody else?
posted by flabdablet at 3:43 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Thank you for removing the "white man's burden" tag. Now that you've confirmed that you are not homeless, and in fact are making more than $100,000/year, flying planes and talking about your "social station," you should remove the "homeless" and "hobo" tags, shouldn't you?
If you don't know how to be kind, I doubt there's anyone who can teach you via an answer here. You need (and clearly can afford) a good therapist to help you with that.
posted by Houstonian at 3:43 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you don't know how to be kind, I doubt there's anyone who can teach you via an answer here. You need (and clearly can afford) a good therapist to help you with that.
posted by Houstonian at 3:43 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Houstonian: Thanks for marking time. But I'm not backing down from this one, because there's more to being homelessness and horrifyingly isolated living than just money in general.
You can have the best avocado picking job in the Oxnard Plain, and catch the next truck up to Salinas, and generally make 4500 a month (the way I do, but under the tax radar) and then catch a midnighter to Eugene for the pot harvest and lose it all in the Chumash Casino. I'm not talking about how my family lives. I'm talking about me and the mentality I still live in.
My white man's burden was that, of course, it's easy for me to get a white collar job if I dress up nice. Rudyard Kipling introduced that phrase to describe how easy it would be for wogs if they just behaved in the civilized, British way. You see, I was born in India, and my guilt in acknowledging this fact forced me to click the X next to it out of cultural shame. My mother would kill me if she saw me write that.
However, as to your other requests for tag removals, negative no nein. I will not remove these dual labels of mental illness and isolation, for these words describe how I have felt for many years, even before I cracked the nut of how to make 6 figures while being a smelly shiftless layabout.
The rest of it? Yeah, therapist, agreed and done for many months now. I want to apologize to the world, make my mark as a philanthropic entity, rather than a horrifying psychic vampire.
posted by electronslave at 3:56 AM on March 21, 2010
You can have the best avocado picking job in the Oxnard Plain, and catch the next truck up to Salinas, and generally make 4500 a month (the way I do, but under the tax radar) and then catch a midnighter to Eugene for the pot harvest and lose it all in the Chumash Casino. I'm not talking about how my family lives. I'm talking about me and the mentality I still live in.
My white man's burden was that, of course, it's easy for me to get a white collar job if I dress up nice. Rudyard Kipling introduced that phrase to describe how easy it would be for wogs if they just behaved in the civilized, British way. You see, I was born in India, and my guilt in acknowledging this fact forced me to click the X next to it out of cultural shame. My mother would kill me if she saw me write that.
However, as to your other requests for tag removals, negative no nein. I will not remove these dual labels of mental illness and isolation, for these words describe how I have felt for many years, even before I cracked the nut of how to make 6 figures while being a smelly shiftless layabout.
The rest of it? Yeah, therapist, agreed and done for many months now. I want to apologize to the world, make my mark as a philanthropic entity, rather than a horrifying psychic vampire.
posted by electronslave at 3:56 AM on March 21, 2010
I've never had either, so how?
Mostly by doing you best to put yourself in the place of the person or people you're interacting with.
There'll be fairly common standards of good manners wherever you are and you should be able to pick up the basics by simple observation. You can then hone these in practice by watching what effect your behaviour is having - are you putting people at ease, making them feel respected and leaving a pleasant impression? If so, you're there or thereabouts.
Kindness can then proceed from that, because it's a similar exercise - doing the things that make the other person feel better. Again, you'll have to watch what effect you're having - you can overdo it and stray into the creepy or over-familiar.
In both cases it's about putting yourself aside and putting your problems down, even if just for a while. By looking outward and thinking primarily of others you can break some of the patterns of self-involvement that I suspect are keeping you stuck in that megalomaniac and egotistical mode you mention as characteristic of your bad years. That can benefit you as well, both as a practice where you learn you aren't the be-all-and-end-all and in the positive feedback it will generate, but even if it doesn't, you'll be a lot nicer to be around.
posted by Abiezer at 3:57 AM on March 21, 2010
Mostly by doing you best to put yourself in the place of the person or people you're interacting with.
There'll be fairly common standards of good manners wherever you are and you should be able to pick up the basics by simple observation. You can then hone these in practice by watching what effect your behaviour is having - are you putting people at ease, making them feel respected and leaving a pleasant impression? If so, you're there or thereabouts.
Kindness can then proceed from that, because it's a similar exercise - doing the things that make the other person feel better. Again, you'll have to watch what effect you're having - you can overdo it and stray into the creepy or over-familiar.
In both cases it's about putting yourself aside and putting your problems down, even if just for a while. By looking outward and thinking primarily of others you can break some of the patterns of self-involvement that I suspect are keeping you stuck in that megalomaniac and egotistical mode you mention as characteristic of your bad years. That can benefit you as well, both as a practice where you learn you aren't the be-all-and-end-all and in the positive feedback it will generate, but even if it doesn't, you'll be a lot nicer to be around.
posted by Abiezer at 3:57 AM on March 21, 2010
Dear electronslave,
AskMe is not your blog. You can get one of those for free from such places as LiveJournal, MySpace, or Blogspot. Until then, I am flagging this question and recommend others do likewise.
Yours faithfully,
meadowlark lime
posted by meadowlark lime at 4:00 AM on March 21, 2010 [12 favorites]
AskMe is not your blog. You can get one of those for free from such places as LiveJournal, MySpace, or Blogspot. Until then, I am flagging this question and recommend others do likewise.
Yours faithfully,
meadowlark lime
posted by meadowlark lime at 4:00 AM on March 21, 2010 [12 favorites]
I've made amends with family and everyone I possibly can, but now I have to slog through the dregs of what I left behind. It's my bed, you see, and I've determined that I shall lie in it. ...it winds up with me thinking of my former fiancee...
If you think the previous comment was really a best answer, reread it and take it to heart: This is all IN YOUR PAST. It's great that you have been able to make good with some people, but you don't need to make good on everyone individually. As you recognize, this is a risk to your new position and steps out of the past.
Can you help others who are in their situation? Donate generously from your six-figure salary to institutions that help people LIKE your former friends? Go work in the soup kitchens on the weekends? Be a Big Brother? Schedule your rich-man activities around these like other people schedule family time.
I walk on a higher plane now ... I will always be in this low place.
You are still romanticizing your situation. You know where the hollowness is coming from? It's coming from within.
Go make yourself useful to people who need your help. It seems you've come a long way, and this is the next step (ever see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs?). You're no better than them (higher plane stuff), but you've done the work to get a better life. Now you can help someone else get there.
posted by whatzit at 4:04 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you think the previous comment was really a best answer, reread it and take it to heart: This is all IN YOUR PAST. It's great that you have been able to make good with some people, but you don't need to make good on everyone individually. As you recognize, this is a risk to your new position and steps out of the past.
Can you help others who are in their situation? Donate generously from your six-figure salary to institutions that help people LIKE your former friends? Go work in the soup kitchens on the weekends? Be a Big Brother? Schedule your rich-man activities around these like other people schedule family time.
I walk on a higher plane now ... I will always be in this low place.
You are still romanticizing your situation. You know where the hollowness is coming from? It's coming from within.
Go make yourself useful to people who need your help. It seems you've come a long way, and this is the next step (ever see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs?). You're no better than them (higher plane stuff), but you've done the work to get a better life. Now you can help someone else get there.
posted by whatzit at 4:04 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
How can you become less of an obnoxious prick? what? that wasn't your question?
Think before your speak.
Consider consequences before you act.
Become humble.
Be aware that everything you think and know is limited by your experience and culture. The more you open yourself totally to the experiences and cultural values of others different from you, the more you will understand both the shallowness and depth of your own beliefs about yourself and your knowledge. Hint: money does not equal value.
Become humble. Yes, it deserves repeating. Reducing your ego from gigantic to large is only a way-stop on the long way to being humble.
You may be someone who needs to have a big life. This is OK. Ensure that the bigness of your life is gauged by how much you give, not how much you take.
12 year old's do not necessarily have flexible ethics. Selfish people have flexible ethics. You can have the careless lighthearted attitude of a 12 year old without being selfish. I'll leave it to you to work out how.
posted by doost at 4:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Think before your speak.
Consider consequences before you act.
Become humble.
Be aware that everything you think and know is limited by your experience and culture. The more you open yourself totally to the experiences and cultural values of others different from you, the more you will understand both the shallowness and depth of your own beliefs about yourself and your knowledge. Hint: money does not equal value.
Become humble. Yes, it deserves repeating. Reducing your ego from gigantic to large is only a way-stop on the long way to being humble.
You may be someone who needs to have a big life. This is OK. Ensure that the bigness of your life is gauged by how much you give, not how much you take.
12 year old's do not necessarily have flexible ethics. Selfish people have flexible ethics. You can have the careless lighthearted attitude of a 12 year old without being selfish. I'll leave it to you to work out how.
posted by doost at 4:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
More importantly, how can I redeem myself to you and to the rest of the world?
I hesitate to even answer this because the whole situation sounds like something above our pay grade. Have you ever gone to see a psychologist and asked them if they think you could be a narcissist? I'm not trying to offend you, I'm trying to give a good faith suggestion. I think it would be worth it for you to ask a professional about narcissistic personality disorder. They have treatments for it.
If you're against psychologists... you said in your OP that you have had problems with your ego. But that honestly sounds like an ongoing problem to me. You come off like someone who spends a lot of time thinking about, and talking about himself. Admiring himself, fantasizing about himself, and admiring the fantasy version of himself. In particular, you seem really fixated on characterizing and describing yourself ("hobo" "american idiot" "egomaniac" "yuppie shit kid"). Again, not trying to insult, just trying to answer what you asked.
Have you ever tried not talking about yourself for a certain length of time? Especially talking about yourself in the third person. And have you ever tried to take a break from reflecting upon yourself in your own mind? Totally serious question. I think if you could set a period of time to try doing this- a week? A month? It might set you on the path you're looking for.
If you stop thinking so much about yourself, if you become focused on others rather than focused on yourself, you might start behaving in that way too.
My $.02.
posted by Ashley801 at 4:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
I hesitate to even answer this because the whole situation sounds like something above our pay grade. Have you ever gone to see a psychologist and asked them if they think you could be a narcissist? I'm not trying to offend you, I'm trying to give a good faith suggestion. I think it would be worth it for you to ask a professional about narcissistic personality disorder. They have treatments for it.
If you're against psychologists... you said in your OP that you have had problems with your ego. But that honestly sounds like an ongoing problem to me. You come off like someone who spends a lot of time thinking about, and talking about himself. Admiring himself, fantasizing about himself, and admiring the fantasy version of himself. In particular, you seem really fixated on characterizing and describing yourself ("hobo" "american idiot" "egomaniac" "yuppie shit kid"). Again, not trying to insult, just trying to answer what you asked.
Have you ever tried not talking about yourself for a certain length of time? Especially talking about yourself in the third person. And have you ever tried to take a break from reflecting upon yourself in your own mind? Totally serious question. I think if you could set a period of time to try doing this- a week? A month? It might set you on the path you're looking for.
If you stop thinking so much about yourself, if you become focused on others rather than focused on yourself, you might start behaving in that way too.
My $.02.
posted by Ashley801 at 4:09 AM on March 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
So you are in the software industry, making six figures and talking to VCs for funding, and you pick produce on the side? I'm flagging your question post as well.
posted by Houstonian at 4:10 AM on March 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Houstonian at 4:10 AM on March 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
I want to apologize to the world
World don't care, dude.
make my mark as a philanthropic entity
Then why not just get stuck into that, instead of hanging around in here?
rather than a horrifying psychic vampire.
You're not horrifying, merely self-absorbed and rather dull. Get over yourself.
posted by flabdablet at 4:33 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
World don't care, dude.
make my mark as a philanthropic entity
Then why not just get stuck into that, instead of hanging around in here?
rather than a horrifying psychic vampire.
You're not horrifying, merely self-absorbed and rather dull. Get over yourself.
posted by flabdablet at 4:33 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Guys, thanks for your input. I'm sorry for getting defensive and making you feel like flagging this entry was necessary.
Living how I have been was a waking hell and I've done some work, but it appears I have a long path to walk before I'm even capable of posting online again.
I'm truly sorry for whatever you feel this has meant.
posted by electronslave at 4:40 AM on March 21, 2010
Living how I have been was a waking hell and I've done some work, but it appears I have a long path to walk before I'm even capable of posting online again.
I'm truly sorry for whatever you feel this has meant.
posted by electronslave at 4:40 AM on March 21, 2010
Small hint: avoid publically admitting to tax evasion.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 4:41 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 4:41 AM on March 21, 2010
Response by poster: Nah, I'm not implicating myself in any kind of criminal activity. I pay my taxes, same as everyone, same schedule as whatever bracket I'm on. Learned that one about 5 years ago.
posted by electronslave at 4:48 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by electronslave at 4:48 AM on March 21, 2010
Honestly, you sound manic. You need more therapy and/or meds.
posted by bardic at 5:13 AM on March 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by bardic at 5:13 AM on March 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
Do these sets of statements seem contradictory to you?
4:35 AM: "with nothing"
5:27 AM: "transitioning out of that homeless phase into something more permanent"
5:34 AM: "I'm making 6 figures"
5:34 AM: "in the software industry"
5:56 AM: "avocado picking job in the Oxnard Plain"
5:34 AM: "I'm making 6 figures"
5:56 AM: "generally make 4500 a month"
5:56 AM: "(the way I do, but under the tax radar)"
6:48 AM: "I pay my taxes"
5:27 AM: "I've made amends with family and everyone I possibly can"
5:34 AM: "Flying planes, golf, hell -- tennis even"
5:37 AM: "I have failed myself and everyone around me"
5:34 AM: "through a few more contacts, I'm about to get VC funding"
5:56 AM: "horrifyingly isolated living"
posted by Houstonian at 5:24 AM on March 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
4:35 AM: "with nothing"
5:27 AM: "transitioning out of that homeless phase into something more permanent"
5:34 AM: "I'm making 6 figures"
5:34 AM: "in the software industry"
5:56 AM: "avocado picking job in the Oxnard Plain"
5:34 AM: "I'm making 6 figures"
5:56 AM: "generally make 4500 a month"
5:56 AM: "(the way I do, but under the tax radar)"
6:48 AM: "I pay my taxes"
5:27 AM: "I've made amends with family and everyone I possibly can"
5:34 AM: "Flying planes, golf, hell -- tennis even"
5:37 AM: "I have failed myself and everyone around me"
5:34 AM: "through a few more contacts, I'm about to get VC funding"
5:56 AM: "horrifyingly isolated living"
posted by Houstonian at 5:24 AM on March 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
So here I am, back where I started, three years later, with nothing.
Well I can relate to this part. I wandered around the world in pain from relationship issues for 3 years. I actually ended up in Vancouver for 6 months one time with the best of intentions but ended up drinking and being kicked out of every bar downtown for weeks at a time. I don't drink anymore.
Started a new job in the software industry only a couple of months ago in NYC.
You may feel strange, out of place but eventually even that will feel normal and ok.
What is the difference between having flexible ethics and being a perpetual 12 year old?
Not sure what is meant by 'flexible' ethics but why not define your own set of moral values to follow. Your own version of the 10 commandments you could say.
Write them out and follow them.
You'll die knowing that you lived your life following your most important values.
posted by simpleton at 5:28 AM on March 21, 2010
Well I can relate to this part. I wandered around the world in pain from relationship issues for 3 years. I actually ended up in Vancouver for 6 months one time with the best of intentions but ended up drinking and being kicked out of every bar downtown for weeks at a time. I don't drink anymore.
Started a new job in the software industry only a couple of months ago in NYC.
You may feel strange, out of place but eventually even that will feel normal and ok.
What is the difference between having flexible ethics and being a perpetual 12 year old?
Not sure what is meant by 'flexible' ethics but why not define your own set of moral values to follow. Your own version of the 10 commandments you could say.
Write them out and follow them.
You'll die knowing that you lived your life following your most important values.
posted by simpleton at 5:28 AM on March 21, 2010
Take it from a much older guy who is similarly all up inside himself: you are still an asshole. It always seems like looking back you were such an asshole, and thank god you've changed, but as the frame of reference moves you realize that yeah, that guy who thought he wasn't such an asshole still was.
Get used to it, come to terms, and welcome to the club.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:41 AM on March 21, 2010
Get used to it, come to terms, and welcome to the club.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:41 AM on March 21, 2010
DO NOT continue to romanticize the experience
Indeed. Your post and all your follow-ups reads like "everyone look at me! I'm a DICK! ha ha! Look! I'm going to try not being a dick! Me me me! Me. Me me. I didn't know you before, but frankly I can tell you that if your behavior in this thread is representative of what you're like now, I would be avoiding you in real life like the plague.
Step 1: What does this person you want to be act like? Step 2: Just act like that. EVEN IF nobody else will notice. It's not about redeeming yourself or being a character in a cheesy drama. It's about being the person you want to be, all the time, for your own benefit, not to impress the spectators. That's all.
People give other people the benefit of the doubt. Even though you were a dick before, most people will be fairly quick to believe you're a changed person if they have mostly positive experiences with you from now on. Note: listening to attention-whoring, all-about-me, overly romanticized "I hit rock-bottom and now I'm digging myself back out" stories is not what most people consider a positive experience. You're better off never bringing up the past again except to sincerely apologize to someone for something specific you did to them.
posted by ctmf at 5:42 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Indeed. Your post and all your follow-ups reads like "everyone look at me! I'm a DICK! ha ha! Look! I'm going to try not being a dick! Me me me! Me. Me me. I didn't know you before, but frankly I can tell you that if your behavior in this thread is representative of what you're like now, I would be avoiding you in real life like the plague.
Step 1: What does this person you want to be act like? Step 2: Just act like that. EVEN IF nobody else will notice. It's not about redeeming yourself or being a character in a cheesy drama. It's about being the person you want to be, all the time, for your own benefit, not to impress the spectators. That's all.
People give other people the benefit of the doubt. Even though you were a dick before, most people will be fairly quick to believe you're a changed person if they have mostly positive experiences with you from now on. Note: listening to attention-whoring, all-about-me, overly romanticized "I hit rock-bottom and now I'm digging myself back out" stories is not what most people consider a positive experience. You're better off never bringing up the past again except to sincerely apologize to someone for something specific you did to them.
posted by ctmf at 5:42 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stop lying to people all the time. The way you're lying to us, now.
posted by mhoye at 5:44 AM on March 21, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 5:44 AM on March 21, 2010 [8 favorites]
I will always be in this low place. My attempts to scrape myself out will end in more limestone under my fingernails and more bloody sores on the tips of my fingers. Escape from this mental realm is for fools, and I truly recognize the depths of humanity reached only by divorcees and drunkards, if only because I'm here with both.
Divorcees in the depths of humanity? Really? Dude, it's 2010.
posted by shiny blue object at 6:06 AM on March 21, 2010
Divorcees in the depths of humanity? Really? Dude, it's 2010.
posted by shiny blue object at 6:06 AM on March 21, 2010
...and to yourself, for what it's worth.
posted by flabdablet at 6:06 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by flabdablet at 6:06 AM on March 21, 2010
Stop focusing on how many different grandiloquent ways you can express how horrible you were/are, and focus on how to do good concrete actions in the future.
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:07 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:07 AM on March 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Go be nice to people.
Learn to look at issues and people through the lens of their perspective, not yours.
Look at the damage you've done to others as something that is done, and not "to be fixed". You can't fix it. You can only atone. You can only atone by amending, and you can only amend by changing your ways.
The only way to repair past relationships is to establish trust. The amending is about establishing the trust.
While I realize you're on a bit of a pink cloud re: getting everything back together, be vigilant about returning to past ways. And by ways I mean "thinking".
If you truly want to get your psyche back together, learn the concept of humility and learn to live it.
posted by disclaimer at 6:27 AM on March 21, 2010
Learn to look at issues and people through the lens of their perspective, not yours.
Look at the damage you've done to others as something that is done, and not "to be fixed". You can't fix it. You can only atone. You can only atone by amending, and you can only amend by changing your ways.
The only way to repair past relationships is to establish trust. The amending is about establishing the trust.
While I realize you're on a bit of a pink cloud re: getting everything back together, be vigilant about returning to past ways. And by ways I mean "thinking".
If you truly want to get your psyche back together, learn the concept of humility and learn to live it.
posted by disclaimer at 6:27 AM on March 21, 2010
Also: apologize frequently. I do.
posted by disclaimer at 6:28 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by disclaimer at 6:28 AM on March 21, 2010
how can I redeem myself to you and to the rest of the world?
Okay, this is your question, so here's your answer. No one who read what you wrote here today is impressed - the style is that of an arrogant fourteen year-old. Yes. Yes. Not a cool, mysterious, devil-may-care adult, but an annoying kid in love with his frankly terrible prose and antisocial behavior. An adult who behaves this way and who expresses himself this way is abnormal, and not in a good or romantic way.
Narcissism? Mania? I don't know. But I do know that you need a professional, highly-paid psychiatrist to help you fix this serious disconnect. Call one immediately. Right now.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Okay, this is your question, so here's your answer. No one who read what you wrote here today is impressed - the style is that of an arrogant fourteen year-old. Yes. Yes. Not a cool, mysterious, devil-may-care adult, but an annoying kid in love with his frankly terrible prose and antisocial behavior. An adult who behaves this way and who expresses himself this way is abnormal, and not in a good or romantic way.
Narcissism? Mania? I don't know. But I do know that you need a professional, highly-paid psychiatrist to help you fix this serious disconnect. Call one immediately. Right now.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Sorry, should expand on that a "lying to yourself" idea a little.
I don't know whether you've ever watched a company go down the tubes. I have. It was a really good place to work, and the reason it was good was because the founders talked with their potential customers, understood their needs, proposed feasible solutions, and built products that implemented them.
Then it got a marketing guy (whose first act, naturally, was to get the company logo changed) and the focus shifted to a push for Growth. Instead of the principals talking to the customers, the marketing guy did that. And of course he would just tell them "yes" any time they asked if our product could do X, and he would then come back and tell the engineering staff what he'd promised, and he never did work out why we all thought he was an utterly clueless nong.
So instead of making stuff that was reasonably easy to make while still satisfying customer needs, the company started wasting a lot of time working really hard to fulfill next-to-impossible promises while the marketing guy went off chasing more sales leads and running ad campaigns.
With that degree of disconnection from engineering reality, the company's product range slipped further and further behind what was increasingly becoming available as commodity product in an increasingly standardized market. We didn't have time to adapt to emerging industry standards because we were so bogged down trying to make our existing stuff do things it was never intended for. The marketing guy's response to that was to line up a US distributor and start an export sales push, complete with an advertising campaign that described what we were making as an "education industry standard" though it was clearly no such thing because there was no such thing.
I lost faith in the company's direction, used up nearly a year of accumulated paid leave, and left. A couple years later, one of the founders - probably the most decent human being I have ever met - lost his house.
The point of the Parable of the Gung Ho Marketroid is that believing in your own bullshit is bad for you. If you're going to believe in things, reality check them. Don't go writing yourself a compelling interior drama about being stuck down a limestone hole and then go around acting it out just because you think it reads well.
Make yourself a supporting player in your interior drama instead of the star, director, producer and chief critic, and for fs stop taking yourself so seriously.
On preview: "grandiloquent" is a wonderful word.
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't know whether you've ever watched a company go down the tubes. I have. It was a really good place to work, and the reason it was good was because the founders talked with their potential customers, understood their needs, proposed feasible solutions, and built products that implemented them.
Then it got a marketing guy (whose first act, naturally, was to get the company logo changed) and the focus shifted to a push for Growth. Instead of the principals talking to the customers, the marketing guy did that. And of course he would just tell them "yes" any time they asked if our product could do X, and he would then come back and tell the engineering staff what he'd promised, and he never did work out why we all thought he was an utterly clueless nong.
So instead of making stuff that was reasonably easy to make while still satisfying customer needs, the company started wasting a lot of time working really hard to fulfill next-to-impossible promises while the marketing guy went off chasing more sales leads and running ad campaigns.
With that degree of disconnection from engineering reality, the company's product range slipped further and further behind what was increasingly becoming available as commodity product in an increasingly standardized market. We didn't have time to adapt to emerging industry standards because we were so bogged down trying to make our existing stuff do things it was never intended for. The marketing guy's response to that was to line up a US distributor and start an export sales push, complete with an advertising campaign that described what we were making as an "education industry standard" though it was clearly no such thing because there was no such thing.
I lost faith in the company's direction, used up nearly a year of accumulated paid leave, and left. A couple years later, one of the founders - probably the most decent human being I have ever met - lost his house.
The point of the Parable of the Gung Ho Marketroid is that believing in your own bullshit is bad for you. If you're going to believe in things, reality check them. Don't go writing yourself a compelling interior drama about being stuck down a limestone hole and then go around acting it out just because you think it reads well.
Make yourself a supporting player in your interior drama instead of the star, director, producer and chief critic, and for fs stop taking yourself so seriously.
On preview: "grandiloquent" is a wonderful word.
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I suspect you're not really trying to write like a novel, but that you somehow only know how to express yourself this way. You're speaking in phrases and maybe "images", but not in words. You've absorbed a speaking and writing style from somewhere else -- perhaps people that you meet find this style interesting, but it's really only good for very casual interactions, not for getting down to truth and solving real problems.
Try this: build up a sentence or two about yourself, word by word, with no use of jargon or vernacular, using only the simplest language possible. The goal in doing this is to see your own situation as simply, clearly, and truthfully as possible.
Once you do that, stop. Wait a minute. Then take what you've written, and make it even simpler, clearer, and more true.
Don't write: having flexible ethics, perpetual 12 year old, where I've been in the last few years, doesn't speak of.
You want language that's literal and precise here. I'd suggest alternatives for the "don't" phrases above, but I can't for the very reason you need to fix them yourself: I don't know what you mean. While you may know what you mean, I suspect that, in making the language more concrete, you'll help make your own thinking more concrete. Eventually, after a lot of time working on your language this way, you might hit on a way to at least approach your problem yourself.
Often, asking the right question gets you more than halfway to the answer.
posted by amtho at 6:46 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Try this: build up a sentence or two about yourself, word by word, with no use of jargon or vernacular, using only the simplest language possible. The goal in doing this is to see your own situation as simply, clearly, and truthfully as possible.
Once you do that, stop. Wait a minute. Then take what you've written, and make it even simpler, clearer, and more true.
Don't write: having flexible ethics, perpetual 12 year old, where I've been in the last few years, doesn't speak of.
You want language that's literal and precise here. I'd suggest alternatives for the "don't" phrases above, but I can't for the very reason you need to fix them yourself: I don't know what you mean. While you may know what you mean, I suspect that, in making the language more concrete, you'll help make your own thinking more concrete. Eventually, after a lot of time working on your language this way, you might hit on a way to at least approach your problem yourself.
Often, asking the right question gets you more than halfway to the answer.
posted by amtho at 6:46 AM on March 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Seconding that you're writing like a person who is experiencing mania or psychosis. Or maybe you're just a bad writer, I don't know. Either way, until you can clarify what your problem actually is, you should probably be discussing this stuff with your therapist, not us.
posted by embrangled at 6:57 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by embrangled at 6:57 AM on March 21, 2010
Also, maybe lay off the Kerouac books for a while.
posted by embrangled at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2010
posted by embrangled at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2010
12-step work could be good here. (For the purpose of my comment here, I ask you to completely disregard the idea of god & the 12 steps.)
A few good features of step work:
- You have a sponsor – a neutral third party willing to help you figure things out and plan your actions. And actions are more important than words.
- You do a moral inventory, cataloguing your anger and fear, and seeing the context of your misery. This helps to tell the difference between your actions and goings of the world. Which again helps you clean up your conscience and get a better grip on living your life.
- You will, with a sponsor, make a solid catalog of amends to make. And making the amends is an incredibly liberating experience.
And by all means don't worry about your writing. It's not hurting anyone. (Except perhaps you want to use shorter sentences so that people don't start picking at your writing, instead of answering your genuine questions.)
posted by krilli at 7:10 AM on March 21, 2010
A few good features of step work:
- You have a sponsor – a neutral third party willing to help you figure things out and plan your actions. And actions are more important than words.
- You do a moral inventory, cataloguing your anger and fear, and seeing the context of your misery. This helps to tell the difference between your actions and goings of the world. Which again helps you clean up your conscience and get a better grip on living your life.
- You will, with a sponsor, make a solid catalog of amends to make. And making the amends is an incredibly liberating experience.
And by all means don't worry about your writing. It's not hurting anyone. (Except perhaps you want to use shorter sentences so that people don't start picking at your writing, instead of answering your genuine questions.)
posted by krilli at 7:10 AM on March 21, 2010
Ever watched reality TV? In particular, one of those shows where they put a dozen or so people in a house together, and they're all competing for one cash prize/dream job/washed-up '80s musician. Every season of every one of those shows has at least one contestant who's obnoxious, confrontational, selfish, and absolutely convinced that he's head and shoulders above everyone else in the house, no matter how talented he actually is. (It's usually the "I'm not here to make friends" contestant.) And, at first, audiences loved to hate these guys. But as reality shows proliferated and grew more gimmicky and melodramatic, we grew skeptical. Each new incarnation of the Reality TV Heel was so over the top, we started thinking, "this person is a plant. She's an actor and she's paid to play the villain and bring the drama. I've seen the application for this show, and no one this crazy would pass the mental-health requirements."
That's you. I don't even actually know what you've done aside from brag about your exciting life, and already you're striking people as so over the top that we suspect you might be pranking us. But you don't need us, right? You're not here to make friends.
So, if everyone hates the obvious villain, why do they always focus the camera on him and not the group of people hanging out in the other room, chatting and generally getting along? Because, to the audience (or at least the producers), those people are boring. Being calm and friendly and quietly discussing problems doesn't make for good TV, it's the passive aggression and the crying and the shitfits and destructive rages.
But it's the nice, friendly, boring people we always root for. We want to be their friend, and we want them to win.
Learn to be boring. This is different from being bored; you can keep yourself entertained and fulfilled without trying to make every moment of your life material for some unwritten memoir. Instead of trying to be the most interesting person in the room, or storming out of the room to sulk on your own, learn to be one of the nice calm people sitting on the couch. In the end, after they've had their share of drama, most people realize that the boring people are good, kind, reliable, and worth knowing.
How you get from here to there is something you have to do on your own, or with the help of a therapist.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:14 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
That's you. I don't even actually know what you've done aside from brag about your exciting life, and already you're striking people as so over the top that we suspect you might be pranking us. But you don't need us, right? You're not here to make friends.
So, if everyone hates the obvious villain, why do they always focus the camera on him and not the group of people hanging out in the other room, chatting and generally getting along? Because, to the audience (or at least the producers), those people are boring. Being calm and friendly and quietly discussing problems doesn't make for good TV, it's the passive aggression and the crying and the shitfits and destructive rages.
But it's the nice, friendly, boring people we always root for. We want to be their friend, and we want them to win.
Learn to be boring. This is different from being bored; you can keep yourself entertained and fulfilled without trying to make every moment of your life material for some unwritten memoir. Instead of trying to be the most interesting person in the room, or storming out of the room to sulk on your own, learn to be one of the nice calm people sitting on the couch. In the end, after they've had their share of drama, most people realize that the boring people are good, kind, reliable, and worth knowing.
How you get from here to there is something you have to do on your own, or with the help of a therapist.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:14 AM on March 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
- Spent the past 3 years drunk or high, spending all your money, cheating on your fiancee, and being rude to your friends?
- Are now homeless, jobless, and friendless?
- Quasi-diagnose yourself with sex addiction and megalomania?
(I'm not sure how "white man's burden" in your tags fits in here.)
Is your question the first one, about ethics and maturity? Or is it the second one, about apologizing? Or is it the third one, about fixing your life (I assume the homeless/jobless part) now that you are sober?
posted by Houstonian at 2:59 AM on March 21, 2010