What kind of boom mic equipment works best in a noisy venue?
March 11, 2010 9:14 AM Subscribe
What kind of boom mic equipment should I use in a noisy room?
I'll be operating a boom mic in a couple weeks, and we're purchasing the mic equipment now. What kind of equipment works best for a boom mic in a large noisy environment? I'll be using it in a convention center, filled with thousands of screaming teenagers playing video games loudly and (to emphasize) constantly screaming at each other. There will be cheering from large stands going on, cheering at nearby gaming stations as people who aren't playing are watching, and general noisiness just from having people all over the place. seems to me a shotgun mic is not ideal, and what little research I've done that I can understand recommends a condenser mic. does this sound right? what about the other equipment?
all equipment recommendations are welcome, thanks in advance.
I'll be operating a boom mic in a couple weeks, and we're purchasing the mic equipment now. What kind of equipment works best for a boom mic in a large noisy environment? I'll be using it in a convention center, filled with thousands of screaming teenagers playing video games loudly and (to emphasize) constantly screaming at each other. There will be cheering from large stands going on, cheering at nearby gaming stations as people who aren't playing are watching, and general noisiness just from having people all over the place. seems to me a shotgun mic is not ideal, and what little research I've done that I can understand recommends a condenser mic. does this sound right? what about the other equipment?
all equipment recommendations are welcome, thanks in advance.
What you want is a microphone with good off-axis rejection. Read up on polar patterns & select which one will work for you and then go from there. A shotgun mic may be too much, but a hypercardiod mic may work for you.
This Microphone Buying Guide is a good overview of the basic technologies involved - a lot of overlap with the Wikipedia entry.
posted by MesoFilter at 9:36 AM on March 11, 2010
This Microphone Buying Guide is a good overview of the basic technologies involved - a lot of overlap with the Wikipedia entry.
posted by MesoFilter at 9:36 AM on March 11, 2010
You probably also want something with a high-pass filter to get rid of some of the boomines in the low end that you get in these large convention halls with lots of screaming fans & video games going on all over the place.
posted by MesoFilter at 9:40 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by MesoFilter at 9:40 AM on March 11, 2010
Hypercardioids are generally better for indoor use, what kind of budget are you thinking?
posted by jjb at 10:25 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by jjb at 10:25 AM on March 11, 2010
Best answer: A shotgun mic will almost definitely be better than a random condensor mic, unless it is a handheld condenser mic that people are going to be holding and talking directly into. If you are doing interviews, you will be better off with a handheld mic they can talk directly into (and remind them to talk directly into it, not 6 inches away, so as to minimize the crowd noise), but a boomed shotgun mic will be much better than any on-camera mic.
A shotgun mic has the best rejection from the sides, so the best thing you can do is to hold it close to the person talking, and as close to vertical as you can get it. If it is tilted too much, you will be picking up more crowd noise.
Get a good pair of headphones. For what you are doing, I would strongly suggest either the kind designed for drummers (which are built into headsets that block out outside noise), or canal phones (which act like earplugs). This will allow you to hear what the mic is picking up over the loud crowd noise. Without doing this, you are not going to be able to tell what the best angle for the mic is, and you will have lots of problems.
Also, make sure you wear something very comfortable without buttons or anything that will knock against the boom pole.
Make sure you use a real boom pole, the kind that works to help keep hand noise from traveling up the pole into the mic.
The number one important thing: Good headphones. Everything else is meaningless if you can't
posted by markblasco at 12:40 PM on March 11, 2010
A shotgun mic has the best rejection from the sides, so the best thing you can do is to hold it close to the person talking, and as close to vertical as you can get it. If it is tilted too much, you will be picking up more crowd noise.
Get a good pair of headphones. For what you are doing, I would strongly suggest either the kind designed for drummers (which are built into headsets that block out outside noise), or canal phones (which act like earplugs). This will allow you to hear what the mic is picking up over the loud crowd noise. Without doing this, you are not going to be able to tell what the best angle for the mic is, and you will have lots of problems.
Also, make sure you wear something very comfortable without buttons or anything that will knock against the boom pole.
Make sure you use a real boom pole, the kind that works to help keep hand noise from traveling up the pole into the mic.
The number one important thing: Good headphones. Everything else is meaningless if you can't
posted by markblasco at 12:40 PM on March 11, 2010
Good advice so far on mics...depending on your budget, going wireless from the mixer to the camera might be really helpful (especially if you have to work your way through large crowds or deal with lots of people milling about). This will give who ever is holding the boom more flexibility and allow them to focus on getting the sound and staying out of frame rather than making sure the XLR isn't going to trip someone up. Keep the XLR on hand though, because wireless units (especially lower budget ones) can be subject to all kinds of issues (interference, battery loss, etc.).
Another option would be to capture with a digital recorder, if your mixer has the ability you could do a backup to the digital recorder and also be sending to the camera for convenience. This could get messy in post though, because you won't be able to slate very easily in a documentary setting.
Also, nthing everything markblasco says about GOOD HEADPHONES...make sure that whoever is holding the boom is ALWAYS monitoring their sound, AS WELL AS the camera person. Boom person needs to so they know what they are picking up, camera person because they are ultimately responsible for the recording.
posted by soy bean at 1:03 PM on March 11, 2010
Another option would be to capture with a digital recorder, if your mixer has the ability you could do a backup to the digital recorder and also be sending to the camera for convenience. This could get messy in post though, because you won't be able to slate very easily in a documentary setting.
Also, nthing everything markblasco says about GOOD HEADPHONES...make sure that whoever is holding the boom is ALWAYS monitoring their sound, AS WELL AS the camera person. Boom person needs to so they know what they are picking up, camera person because they are ultimately responsible for the recording.
posted by soy bean at 1:03 PM on March 11, 2010
Response by poster: thanks for the answers so far, guys. huge help.
one question: a video I watched on the B&H site mentioned that for indoor use, a short diaphragm condensor mic might be the best bet. thoughts on that?
my immediate thought in general is that we'd want something that is very very uni-directional, which I assume is what you all mean when you say that we'd want something with off-axis rejection. what type of microphone is known for good off-axis rejection?
also, thoughts on pre-mixers?
as for our budget, it's not huge. we can't really be buying mics in the range of multiple thousands of dollars or anything.
again, thanks for all the help, guys.
posted by shmegegge at 2:07 PM on March 11, 2010
one question: a video I watched on the B&H site mentioned that for indoor use, a short diaphragm condensor mic might be the best bet. thoughts on that?
my immediate thought in general is that we'd want something that is very very uni-directional, which I assume is what you all mean when you say that we'd want something with off-axis rejection. what type of microphone is known for good off-axis rejection?
also, thoughts on pre-mixers?
as for our budget, it's not huge. we can't really be buying mics in the range of multiple thousands of dollars or anything.
again, thanks for all the help, guys.
posted by shmegegge at 2:07 PM on March 11, 2010
Best answer: one question: a video I watched on the B&H site mentioned that for indoor use, a short diaphragm condensor mic might be the best bet. thoughts on that?
A short diaphragm condenser sounds fine in this situation, I agree with B&H (and why would I ever disagree with them? They're awesome).
my immediate thought in general is that we'd want something that is very very uni-directional, which I assume is what you all mean when you say that we'd want something with off-axis rejection. what type of microphone is known for good off-axis rejection?
Yes. Sound isn't like light & it's not like you can magic something up that can "zoom in" on one area and pick up sound from just there. It has to be done with a bit of clever engineering that cancels out the sound that comes from the sides. So off axis rejection is akin to saying "uni directional."
However, you don't want it so uni-directional that you can only get 1 of the 2 people having a conversation.
You want a Hyper Cardiod mic.
B&H has 21 Small Diaphragm Condensers with a Hyper Cardiod pattern.
The AKG Blue Line looks promising. It has a separate power supply & capsules, so you can swap out cardiod, omnidirectional & hypercardiod capsules depending on your need.
- Cardiod for hand-held interview type situations.
- Hypercardiod for severe off-axis rejection in loud environments.
- Omni directional for when you want it to pick up everything in a 360 degree environment. (perhaps good for an establishing shot).
A few notes.
- If you're outdoors, you'll have to worry about wind, so get a foam ball or something that will prevent the wind from hitting the mic - it's a loud rumble & will sound like thunder.
- If you're hand-holding the mic, you may want to cover it with a foam ball so that the "plosives" (when a lot of air comes out of the mouth, such as the "p" in "plosives) don't overload the mic.
- Condensers, phantom power. So be sure that your mic pre (or whatever you plug the mic into) has phantom power.
- Rather than buying the cardiod capsule, just buy a Shure SM58 for hand-held use. It's cheaper than the capsule, you won't get them confused & they're built like tanks. This is the microphone you see 99.99% of rocks stars spitting into and swinging around on stage at concerts. If (for close-up, hand-held use) it's good enough for picking up a voice in front of a full strength rock band, it's good enough for your reporters.
posted by MesoFilter at 2:46 PM on March 11, 2010
A short diaphragm condenser sounds fine in this situation, I agree with B&H (and why would I ever disagree with them? They're awesome).
my immediate thought in general is that we'd want something that is very very uni-directional, which I assume is what you all mean when you say that we'd want something with off-axis rejection. what type of microphone is known for good off-axis rejection?
Yes. Sound isn't like light & it's not like you can magic something up that can "zoom in" on one area and pick up sound from just there. It has to be done with a bit of clever engineering that cancels out the sound that comes from the sides. So off axis rejection is akin to saying "uni directional."
However, you don't want it so uni-directional that you can only get 1 of the 2 people having a conversation.
You want a Hyper Cardiod mic.
If you plot frequency response AND direction, you will see that a short shotgun is all over the place once you get off-axis. This means you really should aim it, otherwise the voice sounds weird and it will be difficult to EQ that off. With a hyper, you are more easily able to get away with things like aiming it in between two people (instead of at the person who is speaking at the moment).Some mics come with interchangeable parts so you can switch between Hyper Cardiod & (for example) Cardiod - which is good for a hand-held mic. If you want more versatility out of the mic, buy one of these.
2- The other difference is that shotguns sound weird indoors. My explanation would be that the reverb is being picked up weirdly due to the wild off-axis response. And there is the bass explanation. Regardless, they just do sound slightly weird indoors. If you are close with the mic, it mostly goes away. That's what I hear anyways.
B&H has 21 Small Diaphragm Condensers with a Hyper Cardiod pattern.
The AKG Blue Line looks promising. It has a separate power supply & capsules, so you can swap out cardiod, omnidirectional & hypercardiod capsules depending on your need.
- Cardiod for hand-held interview type situations.
- Hypercardiod for severe off-axis rejection in loud environments.
- Omni directional for when you want it to pick up everything in a 360 degree environment. (perhaps good for an establishing shot).
A few notes.
- If you're outdoors, you'll have to worry about wind, so get a foam ball or something that will prevent the wind from hitting the mic - it's a loud rumble & will sound like thunder.
- If you're hand-holding the mic, you may want to cover it with a foam ball so that the "plosives" (when a lot of air comes out of the mouth, such as the "p" in "plosives) don't overload the mic.
- Condensers, phantom power. So be sure that your mic pre (or whatever you plug the mic into) has phantom power.
- Rather than buying the cardiod capsule, just buy a Shure SM58 for hand-held use. It's cheaper than the capsule, you won't get them confused & they're built like tanks. This is the microphone you see 99.99% of rocks stars spitting into and swinging around on stage at concerts. If (for close-up, hand-held use) it's good enough for picking up a voice in front of a full strength rock band, it's good enough for your reporters.
posted by MesoFilter at 2:46 PM on March 11, 2010
Best answer: I would recommend
- this hyper-cardiod as a boom mic (I've never used this, but I trust the brand)
- this Sure SM58 for handheld use, I've been around 'em my whole life and trust them implicitly
- this omni directional mic for ambient sounds, I have it - it's cheap, it works.
I have no recommendations for a portable mixer, but I don't think you really need my help there. Just as long as it has:
- phantom power (to power the condenser mic)
- a "high pass filter" (also called a low-cut filter, to get rid of rumble)
- the proper inputs (XLR, however many you need) and outputs (whatever your camera needs)
- headphone out (so you can hear what the mic hears)
- good battery life, possibly with a backup battery
- limiter so that "explosion" sound coming from that first person shooter doesn't overload the camera's inputs (this may be a nice to have)
- a basic EQ (to get you out of trouble if needed - looking at portable mixers, this may be a nice-to have & not a requirement)
posted by MesoFilter at 3:03 PM on March 11, 2010
- this hyper-cardiod as a boom mic (I've never used this, but I trust the brand)
- this Sure SM58 for handheld use, I've been around 'em my whole life and trust them implicitly
- this omni directional mic for ambient sounds, I have it - it's cheap, it works.
I have no recommendations for a portable mixer, but I don't think you really need my help there. Just as long as it has:
- phantom power (to power the condenser mic)
- a "high pass filter" (also called a low-cut filter, to get rid of rumble)
- the proper inputs (XLR, however many you need) and outputs (whatever your camera needs)
- headphone out (so you can hear what the mic hears)
- good battery life, possibly with a backup battery
- limiter so that "explosion" sound coming from that first person shooter doesn't overload the camera's inputs (this may be a nice to have)
- a basic EQ (to get you out of trouble if needed - looking at portable mixers, this may be a nice-to have & not a requirement)
posted by MesoFilter at 3:03 PM on March 11, 2010
Best answer: A good boom operator with a very directional shotgun mic should be able to aim precisely at whoever is speaking in a conversation, giving you much better sound than you would get by aiming between them (but perhaps presenting problems if they are speaking at the same time).
If you don't want the microphone in the shot, a shotgun and an experienced boom operator is the way to go in my opinion. As far as picking one...if your budget for the mic around $1,500 you will be fine, just wade through B+H for a while till you find something that fits (might even be cheaper than that). I'm a fan of Sennheiser, but at a certain price point they are all going to work. This mic looks like just what you would want, but is probably out of your budget (it's selling here at $2,000).
The longer the shotgun, the better it will be at not picking up off-axis noise.
For the field mixer, I've been really happy using Sound Devices mixers; if you are using it just for this project it sounds like a single channel 'mixer' would be enough but you probably want at least two for flexibility. All of these mixers have phantom power, XLR in / out, etc. and are rugged.
Also think about a comfortable case and harness/strap for carrying the mixer.
posted by soy bean at 3:27 PM on March 11, 2010
If you don't want the microphone in the shot, a shotgun and an experienced boom operator is the way to go in my opinion. As far as picking one...if your budget for the mic around $1,500 you will be fine, just wade through B+H for a while till you find something that fits (might even be cheaper than that). I'm a fan of Sennheiser, but at a certain price point they are all going to work. This mic looks like just what you would want, but is probably out of your budget (it's selling here at $2,000).
The longer the shotgun, the better it will be at not picking up off-axis noise.
For the field mixer, I've been really happy using Sound Devices mixers; if you are using it just for this project it sounds like a single channel 'mixer' would be enough but you probably want at least two for flexibility. All of these mixers have phantom power, XLR in / out, etc. and are rugged.
Also think about a comfortable case and harness/strap for carrying the mixer.
posted by soy bean at 3:27 PM on March 11, 2010
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posted by shmegegge at 9:15 AM on March 11, 2010