Is my new relationship with my ex a terrible idea?
March 9, 2010 9:19 AM   Subscribe

My ex-boyfriend and I decided to give our relationship another shot. Can his behavior last night be attributed to normal stupidity in a relationship with no clear boundaries or is it a giant, waving red flag? [Long, special snowflake, etc.]

I broke up with my long-term boyfriend six months ago for reasons that are irrelevant to this post. After several months during which we both dated other people and discovered we missed each other very much, we decided to give our relationship one more go-round. We agreed that we would not be exclusive yet and that we would take our relationship very slowly this time.

Last night we met at a bar for the first time since we agreed to date again. He was very intoxicated when I showed up, though very apologetic about "accidentally" drinking too much. I was mildly annoyed. To punctuate exactly how drunk he felt, he pointed to an attractive girl across the bar and said, "I'm so drunk that I tried to kiss her before you got here," at which point I accelerated from mildly annoyed to murderously pissed off.

Ex-boyfriend excuses himself thusly: "I wasn't sure I was going to see you tonight. I don't know where our relationship stands. You said we weren't exclusive. I was drunk." He apologized for about a hour. I know that the boundaries in our relationship are kind of fuzzy, and although at no point did my ex-boyfriend suggest that I was overreacting, I wonder if I am? It's not so much that I don't agree he can see other women while we figure out whether or not we can slowly ease into a workable relationship, but I'm upset that he tried to get with some girl on the same night we had tentative plans to meet. This seems like a major, major red flag to me and my first instinct is to tell him that I don't want to see him anymore, but I'm wondering if his was just a normal, stupid are-we-dating-or-not mistake and I should give him a break. What think you, hive mind?
posted by coffeeflavored to Human Relations (66 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Get rid of.
posted by the foreground at 9:22 AM on March 9, 2010 [5 favorites]


Guy's perspective: you told him he needn't be exclusive, then got angry when he wasn't.

If you weren't cool with him seeing other people (which is your right), you shouldn't have made that part of the ground-rules.
posted by jckll at 9:22 AM on March 9, 2010 [16 favorites]


Best answer: We agreed that we would not be exclusive yet

That's the bottom line. Frankly, to me the major red flags are not that he was trying to get with someone else, but that he got that drunk before a date, and that he "tried" to kiss a girl in a bar (which suggests to me that his advances were not welcome).
posted by amro at 9:23 AM on March 9, 2010 [9 favorites]


He was very intoxicated when I showed up, though very apologetic about "accidentally" drinking too much.


This has nothing to do with dating and everything to do with alcohol.
posted by edbles at 9:23 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Since he is someone you already presumably were exclusive with for a time, I think trying to start off again in a non-exclusive manner is unlikely to work. You can't pretend like you don't have serious feelings for each other, which is why you were pissed off, and I'm quite sure he'd feel really uncomfortable if you told him you were sleeping with other guys.

I don't think it's a red flag, but I think you should abandon this non-exclusivity arrangement. If you're serious about making it work this time around, you may as well demonstrate that seriousness to each other by actually committing to making it work, not keep other people around just in case it doesn't.

Finally, while you say the reasons you broke up previously were "irrelevant to this post", on the off chance that those reasons involved cheating, lack of trust, or an incompatibility of what you each wanted in terms of 'seriousness', then no, those reasons are assuredly NOT irrelevant to this post.
posted by modernnomad at 9:24 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Guy's perspective: you told him he needn't be exclusive, then got angry when he wasn't.

Bingo. Can't really be mad about that. His being drunk and tell you about what happened, however, was pretty stupid on his part, and if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to get back into the drama so early in the game.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:25 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Best answer: A relationship with no clear boundaries is a giant red flag.
posted by rtha at 9:25 AM on March 9, 2010 [11 favorites]


Murderous jealousy over a kiss that didn't even happen when you guys agreed to not be exclusive? Give him a break. It sounds like you two (especially you!) should reconsider if a non-exclusive relationship is really what you both want.
posted by kookaburra at 9:26 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


This is a lesson in setting the rules you want. He drank a bit more than he planned, then acted according to the rules and then overshared because of his over indulgence.

This is NO cause for DTMFA. Instead ask for the boundaries you really want, which appear to be monogamy.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:28 AM on March 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


At face value, I think you're overreacting. The boundaries had been set fuzzy enough that you shouldn't have had any particular expectations. What he did was rather jerkish but it sounds as though he was honest and apologetic about it, not trying to sweep things under the rug.

However, you didn't say anything about his typical relationship with alcohol. If he has a history of "accidentally" drinking too much and doing stupid things, you should be very, very careful. In my opinion, the correct answer to your question depends entirely on whether this was an isolated incident or the typical way things go with this guy and his booze.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 9:30 AM on March 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


Given that you said you weren't exclusive, I'd say your behavior is more of a red flag for him.
posted by Nattie at 9:31 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Best answer: Ironmouth is right in that this doesn't violate any rules you have set.

That said, were you planning on meeting him at the bar, or did you just happen to be at the same place? If it's the former, then to hell with the rules: evaluate what you think about the fact that the guy thought a good response to meeting up with you was to get wasted and hit on fellow bar-goers.
posted by mikeh at 9:32 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Being non-exclusive is one thing, being non-exclusive with a guy who tries to pick up random women in a bar while drunk and waiting for you, then tells you about it drunkenly as a way to explain his drunkenness, is another. Are you looking for an intelligent, sensitive boyfriend? Or are you willing to build a relationship with someone with a cabbage-patch-kid-type personality (so ugly it's cute)?

I'm certainly not going to judge your young man by one possibly high-stress incident, but I think you would certainly be well advised to explain to him exactly why his behavior is not the done thing.
posted by amtho at 9:33 AM on March 9, 2010 [6 favorites]


Is this guy really worth the drama?

You guys broke up once before because your relationship didn't work. What exactly has changed about both of you to make both of you think that things will be different this time?
posted by Solomon at 9:35 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Guy here. 1st date in a potential get-back-together scenario generally means one should be on their best behavior. He wasn't. So, yes, red flag. So unless YOU begged him to give it another go from the outset, his behavior indicates he's really not too serious about getting back together.
posted by teg4rvn at 9:39 AM on March 9, 2010 [9 favorites]


Response by poster: Thanks for all of the answers, everyone! I agree that I should not be upset that he tried to kiss another girl. That's not the problem. It's that he did it on our date night. If she'd welcomed his advances, I assume he would have left the bar with her or would have been making our with her or something when I showed up. I think that's the problem. However, I don't know if that's normal in non-exclusive relationships. It did not occur to me that he would try to be with two girls in one night and that one of them would be me. Had it been another night when we had no plans to see each other, I would not consider it my business.
posted by coffeeflavored at 9:43 AM on March 9, 2010


It's understandable that you were upset; he drank too much & made an ass of himself (although he very well may have been drinking due to nervousness because he'd been missing you a lot and might fuck it up/make you angry/what-have-you). However, in my interactions with males I've noticed that a lot of them really are entirely clueless that The Thing they are doing is Really Stupid, and sometimes I need to make it explicit that X and Y behavior upset me, and I'd appreciate if X and Y behavior would stop.

It was probably a legitimate mistake, so give him a break. Make your expectations clear; if you want him to not drink and not kiss other girls before dates, tell him so. (Although hopefully you can just use general behaviors and not have to go through a whole categorical list of actions, of course.) If he keeps acting inconsiderate and disrespectful, then is the time to give the health of your relationship some thought.
posted by opossumnus at 9:44 AM on March 9, 2010


Best answer: Even though you're not exclusive... not being able to wait 5 minutes for you to show up on your date before "trying" to kiss some random girl is pretty obnoxious and disrespectful. Not being exclusive doesn't mean you just go around grabbing everyone in sight when you're on a date with someone. I would have been pissed too. "Accidentally" getting drunk enough to harass a random person is bad enough. It shows bad character.
posted by amethysts at 9:44 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: Oh, and also, our breakup had nothing to do with cheating or alcohol abuse. But thank you for your comments, everyone, and for your suggestions that I consider those to be possible obstacles in our relationship.
posted by coffeeflavored at 9:45 AM on March 9, 2010


The potential problem is not that he tried to kiss someone else, it's that his getting drunk while waiting for you, then telling you what he did instead of having a nice meetup with you may be part of a larger problem of inconsiderate jackassery. Only you can be the judge.
posted by *s at 9:45 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Regardless of the precise status of your relationship and whether or not it's exclusive, a gentleman doesn't say something like that to a lady he's supposedly interested in dating, particularly given your current situation. You've broken it off with him once before and now you're giving him a second chance -- he should be on his best behavior right now if he's at all sincere in his interest in being together again.

Move forward if your gut is telling you he's worth it. But this strikes me as a very bad sign.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:46 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: 1st date in a potential get-back-together scenario generally means one should be on their best behavior.

This. If you were on a first date with a new guy you'd just met (i.e., zero expectation of exclusivity) and he was a) drunk, and b) told you about trying to kiss someone else to demonstrate how drunk he was, surely you'd see that as a red flag.

I think your anger is misplaced if you think this is about whether or when he exercises the "non-exclusivity" clause in your current arrangement. You agreed to be non-exclusive, so it's not wrong for him to pursue other dating opportunities even on days when he might be seeing you (i.e., it would not be wrong for him to get someone's number the same evening the two of you had a date planned). However, for him to show a serious lack of respect for you at a moment when both he and you are trying to work out a way to possibly repair/resume your relationship is a serious red flag.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:52 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I assume he would have left the bar with her or would have been making our with her or something when I showed up. I think that's the problem.

You have no facts to support this. It is exactly what you called it, an assumption.

Who knows what he meant by tried to kiss. I think you are reading way too much into the things that happened. You appear to only know that he "tried to kiss" her. Who knows what that means. I would be surprised if he had thought it out the way you have.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:52 AM on March 9, 2010


Honestly, this sounds one hundred percent to me like that first true WTF story in a long line to come from a friend whose on-again-off-again relationship becomes progressively more inexplicable and unjustifiable. Just for clarity allow me to restate the story as I heard it: you've decided to give it another shot and it's your first date, how did it go?

"He got so drunk before I even showed up that he tried to kiss some random girl at the bar and then told me about it by way of explaining how drunk he was."

I guess anyone might be allowed one free pass on being a monumental fuck up but if you accrue any more giant WTF stories on this one I'd have to say you'd be action like a dumb chump at that point.
posted by nanojath at 10:02 AM on March 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


at no point did my ex-boyfriend suggest that I was overreacting, I wonder if I am?

That he didn't argue with you is actually a good sign, in my book. He was nervous and sabotaged it mightily by being as big of an ass as possible. I don't think that has much to do with exclusivity or not, though, going forward.

Now, that he would be such an idiot as to get blithering drunk and try to make you jealous right off the bat is either going to be very funny in a couple of months, or a hindsight 20/20 example of his crushing immaturity. But I wouldn't take this "tried to kiss her" business as some sort of earnest attempt at hooking up with another girl.
posted by desuetude at 10:02 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


What do you mean when you say that you had "tentative plans to meet"? Did he know for sure that you were going to show up?
posted by ericthegardener at 10:07 AM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Well. I thought we had firm plans. He wrote to ask if we could see each other, and I said we could, but that I was having a drink with a friend first and would contact him afterward. He claims he thought this made our plans "tentative." Could have been a regular misunderstanding, could be excuse-making. I'm trying not to look into that too much.
posted by coffeeflavored at 10:11 AM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Actually, that's not true: maybe that's the part I should be looking into and is the entire crux of the situation. If he really thought for some reason that I wasn't going to show, there's no reason he shouldn't put the moves on someone else, I suppose.
posted by coffeeflavored at 10:14 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


The exclusive/non-exclusive thing, and the alcohol/no alcohol thing doesn't bug me so much as it seems your ex-boyfriend was being insufferably rude. Trying to make out with another woman at the bar you two had agreed to meet at not only makes it awkward for you, but it would have made it really awkward for that woman, as well, should you have arrived a little early and interrupted their makeout session.
posted by xingcat at 10:16 AM on March 9, 2010


Best answer: "I wasn't sure I was going to see you tonight" and we had tentative plans to meet make me wonder if he even knew you were going to be there for sure..... did he? How were the plans discussed? Was it one of those "If I have a chance I'll drop by for a drink" things? If he wasn't sure if you were going to be there, I don't think his getting drunk or his little confession are red flags at all. If he did know, they are.

On preview: My take is that he either misunderstood your message or the point had passed where he figured you weren't going to contact him. I would not DTMFA just yet.
posted by iconomy at 10:20 AM on March 9, 2010


Best answer: Yeah, I think this may be a red flag, but it's a structural red flag about the arrangement you're attempting, rather than a personal red flag about your boyfriend. Not that you shouldn't go on, but you are probably walking into an emotional minefield.
posted by grobstein at 10:22 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Sounds to me like he's angry and/or unsure about the new arrangement, and was doing some (probably unconscious) sabotage.
posted by kestrel251 at 10:26 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Maybe he's not so secure with the lack of boundaries and telling you he tried to kiss that girl was a subconscious attempt to define some boundaries.

Your plans didn't sound definite to me - I would think he could still refrain from getting drunk, but I think it could have been accidental.
posted by KAS at 10:46 AM on March 9, 2010


And to answer if you were overreacting - yes, a little. Non-exclusive is just that. It's not very polite or smart to try to hook up with another girl the same night he might or might not have been seeing you, but I think it's within the realm of what you guys have said is okay behavior.

That said, I probably would have flipped out. And if your first instinct is to dump him over this, take a look at why that's your instinct and why you didn't frame it differently.
posted by KAS at 10:50 AM on March 9, 2010


Who were you having drinks with before hand? Was it a potential suitor? Did BF know who it was either way? It sounds like he has no idea how to be non-exclusive and wishes it wasn't and is pushing the boundaries blindly out of confusion and fear.

PS If you have drinking plans before other plans, I'd consider the later plans tentative.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:52 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: For the record (to those of you who think my behavior is a red flag or that I'm some psycho emotional female coming straight to you from a Dodge Charger ad), I did not react by yelling at him or freezing him out or anything. I probably said something like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" but we discussed everything calmly and slowly, and I explained why I thought making out with someone else on a date night (and pointing her out to me) is unacceptable. I don't know if you still consider that red-flag behavior on my part; if you do, I suppose that gives me something to think about.

Thanks, everyone, for your answers. They've given me a lot of perspective, and I guess I've come away with the understanding that a.) my desire to keep this non-exclusive says something about how I feel about this relationship, b.) this relationship needs clearer boundaries, possibly truly exclusive ones, and c.) maybe this dude just isn't that into me. Also, seems like I was definitely overreacting. Again, thanks, people!
posted by coffeeflavored at 11:02 AM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Who were you having drinks with before hand? Was it a potential suitor? Did BF know who it was either way?

Just a female friend. BF knows and likes her. I had to return a cake plate to her. I told BF that after I returned the plate and had a glass of wine with her, I'd see him. I don't think more innocuous drink plans have ever been made anywhere.
posted by coffeeflavored at 11:05 AM on March 9, 2010


Best answer: You said we weren't exclusive.

That's your answer right there. The plans didn't seem firm; and he was the one trying to make an arragement with you.

I can easily see him alone in a bar thinking you won't show or that you're drink with your "friend" is more important. He probably started think about this, and how you said it wasn't exclusive, and clearly he wants something more definite. He's sulking alone, getting sad and/or angry, and starts drinking more than he realizes. Lonely, he starts hitting on other girls.

Maybe this is not the way it went down, but is seems pretty plausible to me.
posted by spaltavian at 11:06 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


>>Well. I thought we had firm plans. He wrote to ask if we could see each other, and I said we could, but that I was having a drink with a friend first and would contact him afterward. He claims he thought this made our plans "tentative.">>

Honestly, this makes the plans sound iffy to me, and I'm a girl. That's kind of like when a guy says "I'll call you tonight" even though you know he won't, and you're surprised when he actually does. He invited you out and you were kind of "ehh I guess I'll meet you there at some point, but I'll let you know." So I don't blame him for not expecting you to show up, and when you did show up he felt really guilty about it and explained his actions in worst way possible because he was already drunk.

While I don't know him well enough to say this definitely is not a bad sign (personally I like to think my guy isn't the type who'd go to bars by himself to get drunk and pick up random chicks, whether he's in a relationship or not), I think your lack of setting the boundaries you actually want, as well as your not confirming what time you may or may not show up, were part of the problem with what happened that night.
posted by wondermouse at 11:08 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: You're totally out of line. Completely.

It's a non exclusive relationship and there were tentative plans. There's zero reason he should stop himself from trying to flirt with it or get with another woman, 'cause you're not exclusive.

If his behavior bothers you, maybe it's because you wanted some basic ground rules, but just didn't realize it. Time to decide if you really want ground rules and if so, articulate it to him. If he breaks those rules, then you're justified in getting pissed, but currently you don't have a leg to stand on, 'cause you're not exclusive.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:09 AM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Oh. I told him I'd call him at 10 pm after I was done with my drink. Then I did call him at 10 pm. To me, this makes the plans firm, but what I'm hearing is that it didn't. I'm a little confused by this, but am willing to play by different rules even if I don't really get them that much.
posted by coffeeflavored at 11:10 AM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: The reason it's a date night to me is that I thought our plans were firm. We had a planned activity, which was to meet at a bar when I was finished seeing my friend. I didn't take longer than expected. For some reason, he disputes that our plans were firm and I'm taking his claim that he thought we didn't have real plans at face value, but I really, really did make plans to see him.

Maybe this points to the fact that my concept of "date" is sadly not really a date.

Some of you are being rather harsh in your wording. I'm very grateful for any answers, but I wonder if I've really done something very wrong here to earn your vitriol? Please explain further to me if I have.
posted by coffeeflavored at 11:17 AM on March 9, 2010


To me, this makes the plans firm, but what I'm hearing is that it didn't. I'm a little confused by this
Because you said "I will call you at 10pm" not "I will meet you around 10:15" or something like that. "I will call you" communicates that you will be calling him to let him know if you're going to show up or not. I know people who will never, ever manage to show up to the social thing they scheduled to do after another social thing, because it gets late, they're tired, they have to work tomorrow, etc. and yet they continue to schedule double-headers.
posted by amethysts at 11:19 AM on March 9, 2010


>>The reason it's a date night to me is that I thought our plans were firm. We had a planned activity, which was to meet at a bar when I was finished seeing my friend. I didn't take longer than expected. For some reason, he disputes that our plans were firm and I'm taking his claim that he thought we didn't have real plans at face value, but I really, really did make plans to see him.>>

It's easy to see both sides here - I'm sorry but a planned phone call is just not a concrete plan for everyone, even if you called him exactly when you said you would. What I think this means is he deserves another chance if you are both still interested in giving it a go. And maybe next time plan on meeting at a place that isn't a bar. That was sort of asking for trouble, especially when he didn't know what time you'd get there he DID know you'd be having a drink (or possibly more) ahead of time.
posted by wondermouse at 11:49 AM on March 9, 2010


Oh. I told him I'd call him at 10 pm after I was done with my drink

And at 9pm he tried to kiss another girl at the bar. The only possible issue I see is that he told you, when perhaps he should have kept it to himself. Sounds like ya'll need to set some ground rules, especially one about talking about other people.

For some reason, he disputes that our plans were firm

Listen to what he said: "I wasn't sure I was going to see you tonight. I don't know where our relationship stands. You said we weren't exclusive. I was drunk."

Sounds like he's bothered by the general non exclusiveness, whereas you're thinking "What, we had concrete plans, 10pm, right?!" Ya'll are talking and bothered about two different things, I think.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:07 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: 1) This story read to me as a story about his anxiety about the situation, not his cluelessness or bad behavior for bad behavior's sake. It reads very much like he wanted to have a drink to calm down, had too many, tried to make himself feel good, felt shitty and embarrassed, and blurted it all out to you as a result. I think it's true that as adults we are (and should be) expected to control our anxiety in socially acceptable ways, but this has all the markings of a potentially very stressful situation. I think you can cut him some slack this time.

2) I disagree, however, with those who have pointed to the non-exclusivity of your arrangement, and suggested that that tells the whole story. That does make his actions a mistake rather than a betrayal, but it's pretty piggish to hit on someone else when you're waiting for a paramour. Even if you aren't sure they're going to show, discretion and civility suggest that one should reserve your flirting for another time.
posted by OmieWise at 12:09 PM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


I think you are really level headed. If I ever went on a date with ANYONE regardless of boundaries defined or undefined and they were wasted when I showed up then tried to tell me that they were trying to mack it on another girl until I got there, I would have just turned around and left.

With the non-exclusive arangement your date wasn't technically in the wrong, but I think his actions were rude and inconsiderate and you should think about where he had problems being rude and inconsiderate in your past relationship and if so take this as a signal that things will not be different this go-round.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:36 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


This is a really good example of a question where you have to read the whole thing -- back and forth clarifications with the OP, etc -- to really answer it. I was first off going to be very annoyed at the poster for even wondering if it was bad behavior -- of course it was! And then annoyed at everyone else for being all: "You're not exclusive! That means everyone is fair game right up until the very minute before exclusivity is defined!"

But after clarifications, I think you were both behaving badly. And, in fact, I kind of think your ex was possibly petulantly punishing you for being vague and making him wait around for you to show up on your own schedule to talk about where your relationship was headed. I doubt he even talked to that random bar girl.

If you want to go forward with this guy (only you can know) then I suggest that you make a real and exclusive date night that starts at a normal time (say, dinner time) with real and exclusive plans to talk about your relationship. In fact, you might just give that whole evening a wash. Say that you felt like that was a terrible way to meet up and that you both behaved oddly and that you'd like to give it one more try. You guys will need to make each other's feelings a priority if you're going to make a healthy relationship work. Start from there, I think.
posted by amanda at 12:38 PM on March 9, 2010


When you set up a date with someone, they should be paying attention to you and not other chicks. Being non-exclusive does not apply on a date. On a date his attention should have been exclusively on the person he went out with (you).
posted by WeekendJen at 12:40 PM on March 9, 2010


The reason it's a date night to me is that I thought our plans were firm. We had a planned activity, which was to meet at a bar when I was finished seeing my friend. I didn't take longer than expected. For some reason, he disputes that our plans were firm and I'm taking his claim that he thought we didn't have real plans at face value, but I really, really did make plans to see him.

Maybe this points to the fact that my concept of "date" is sadly not really a date.


I think what it really points to OP, is that YOU DON'T GET ALONG VERY WELL WITH HIM. You broke up with him for a reason the first time, and the very first time you approach getting back together it ends in drama....there are so many other people out there, don't sell yourself short!
posted by the foreground at 12:44 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I didn't make him wait around. I told him exactly what time we were going to meet. He was actually with friends at the bar up until this point, so he wasn't even alone. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that I was vague and making him wait around. He somehow got that idea, but after my clarifications here, I'm still not understanding how other posters think I was being vague or making him wait. I told him I wasn't available until a certain time, but after that I would be available and we would meet. Then I was true to my word and was available at the exact time I said. I wasn't like, "Wait at this bar; if you're lucky, I'll materialize at some point in the indeterminate future." Maybe I didn't get the message across clearly enough to him, but posters here are treating me like I'm some huge asshole for not making definite plans.

Also, of course I'm making plans according to my own schedule. I've had these plans for a week. I'm not going to cancel them just because he suddenly wants to see me. I can, however, say, "You know what? I'll be free in an hour. I'll call you then."

Sorry if this seems defensive, but I'm not sure some posters are getting that these plans were, to me, not vague, and I did not ask him to wait anywhere for me.
posted by coffeeflavored at 12:47 PM on March 9, 2010


Well, that's what you get for asking strangers on the internet who are not you, who were not there, who are not your boyfriend. You get what you pay for. You either get something valuable out of asking this question in this kind of forum or you don't. Sounds like you didn't!

Good luck!
posted by amanda at 1:26 PM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: I found valuable in many of the answers here and have stated that clearly above. I don't see how clarifying myself further negates that.
posted by coffeeflavored at 1:35 PM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Ahem. "Value," not "valuable."
posted by coffeeflavored at 1:36 PM on March 9, 2010


I agree with pretty much everything amanda said.

But also:

Sorry if this seems defensive, but I'm not sure some posters are getting that these plans were, to me, not vague, and I did not ask him to wait anywhere for me.


I have no problem believing that you considered this a firm date. It seems as if some of the replies have indicated that to some people, anything involving a phone call close to the time of the date is by definition not that firm. Personally, I don't like the kind of exchange that goes: Them: "Let's have dinner tomorrow." Me: "OK. when and where?" Them: "I'll call you after work tomorrow." I don't understand why that additional conversation is needed unless they are not really sure. (And, if I don't know the person very well, I tend to suspect that they are in a sort of college-student mindset where multiple and sometimes conflicting plans are expected.)

Maybe this is a total non-issue between you and you (maybe not) ex, but it seems like in this, case, at least, it created some confusion. I'd say forget that date and make another one where things are not so complicated.
posted by BibiRose at 1:42 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I told him exactly what time we were going to meet.

You did? I (and other posters) don't see this in your account. You told him when you'd call him. People aren't saying you're being vague... they're pointing out that your assumption that "I told him when I'd call is the same as having firm plans" is far from universally shared -- and even you yourself, in your original post, used the phrasing "tentative plans" and only later wrote:
The reason it's a date night to me is that I thought our plans were firm.
So it seems like there's a little bit of framing going on as you respond to posts.

You thought. But he clearly didn't, and like other posters, if you had told me, "I'll call you" instead of "I'll meet you,"following a previous social obligation, I'd definitely consider it to be within the realm of possibility that you might call and beg off. So whether you considered it firm isn't really relevant - rather you should understand that to a significant number of people, that method of making plans is not the same as making firm plans. I don't think anybody has said you're an asshole because this is what you consider making firm plans... just that it doesn't map to a universally understood social convention.

Beyond that, to the real issue, it sounds like it may be indicative of larger communicative stumbling blocks in terms of making expectations and desires clearly stated and understood to both parties - type of relationship, what makes for firm plans, and so on. Next time, if there is a next time, skip the bar.
posted by canine epigram at 2:22 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


WeekendJen When you set up a date with someone, they should be paying attention to you and not other chicks. Being non-exclusive does not apply on a date. On a date his attention should have been exclusively on the person he went out with (you).

He didn't hit on the other girl while on a date. This didn't happen in front of the OP. There wasn't even a date scheduled; there was "I will call you at 10". That isn't a plan, that's "At 10 I will let you know if we will have plans or not".

where he had problems being rude and inconsiderate in your past relationship and if so take this as a signal that things will not be different this go-round.

The OP specifically said that the reasons for the break-up are not relevant and that they didn't involve cheating or alcohol. She never said anything about having problems "being rude and inconsiderate", so there's no need to jump to conclusions and try to paint a picture of this guy. This is one incident where there was miscommunication and abooze. Right now, with the information we have, that's all it was.
posted by spaltavian at 2:31 PM on March 9, 2010


Response by poster: Mostly, it's just that the more I clarify how our plans were made, the less I see how they were "tentative," although I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when I wrote the original question and therefore framed it from his perspective. But this is how we've always made plans; we live in the iPhone age and move from bar to bar over the course of a night, and many of our plans are made on the fly via text message. This is normal for us. The more I write, the more I fail to see how the plans were not firm to him as this is how we make plans. Maybe he was lying to get out of trouble. Who knows. I thought this whole tentative/not-tentative thing was beside the point at first, but I guess not. Mostly, what I have learned is that, yes, in regards to the original question, I am overreacting; even if we had definite plans to see each other, non-exclusive means that I should expect this.
posted by coffeeflavored at 2:40 PM on March 9, 2010


You know, the fact that he was hanging out with friends at the bar is kind of an important detail that you left out until just a couple posts ago. As each detail comes out, more is brought to light about what this situation may or may not have been like. Like now it kind of sounds like you guys were just bar-hopping with friends all night and were planning on eventually being at the same bar at the same time, which in my mind makes his actions make more sense, and it makes it sound like a very casual meet-up. I'm led to believe he was just as confused about your date as we have been about answering this question.
posted by wondermouse at 2:57 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


But this is how we've always made plans; we live in the iPhone age and move from bar to bar over the course of a night, and many of our plans are made on the fly via text message. This is normal for us.

Maybe changing your "normal" might not be a bad idea, if you're really considering dating this person again. That is, I don't think you should expect "this, " where "this" is showing up on a date to find the other person sloshed and babbling about making sexual advances to somebody else. But it sounds like the whole date was kind of a clusterfuck and the kissing thing is only a small part of it.
posted by BibiRose at 2:57 PM on March 9, 2010


I really don't get what you're getting out of trying to convince us that you're right. First off, no one called you an asshole. People are calling the situation like they see it. Feel free to keep adding details until you get the answer you want but it just seems so unnecessary. No one here really cares whether you were right or wrong or whether you crazy kids make it work out. You know? I didn't call you an asshole and no one else did either. I said, sounds like a bad night. Others said you could have probably been more clear. Others said the guy was in the total right and others said you were. Pick what you want and move on.

I think general "best practices" for ask.mefi is that askers should mostly stay out of their own threads. Simple qualifications or followup questions are okay if they are minimal but you had your chance to ask. Make what you want out of the answers and don't spend too much psychological energy getting all pissed that internet strangers might not be taking your side.
posted by amanda at 3:04 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


He wrote to ask if we could see each other, and I said we could, but that I was having a drink with a friend first and would contact him afterward.

Especially with the bar hopping, I can see where he thinks its tentative.

Here's the deal. Why are you mad? It is obvious you set the boundaries of anything goes. You set those boundaries. When he acted on those boundaries, you found yourself upset and said "you are fucking kidding me." You felt that, despite you saying you were non-exclusive, that you were entitled to have him not hit on girls when you guys were apparently causally meeting up in the "iPhone age" where you float from bar to bar and eventually meet up. You were jealous, despite your insistence on no boundaries. I think this makes it clear:

he pointed to an attractive girl across the bar and said, "I'm so drunk that I tried to kiss her before you got here," at which point I accelerated from mildly annoyed to murderously pissed off.

You pointed out how attractive she was. That would only be relevant if you were jealous.

Now you can argue that you didn't mean that he should hit on someone on nights when you were supposed to get together later or something like that, but that is a distinction without a difference.

I'm also concerned about the lack of detail that started out. Frankly, there was more of a slant in the initial post:

We agreed that we would not be exclusive yet and that we would take our relationship very slowly this time.

became:

my desire to keep this non-exclusive says something about how I feel about this relationship

and:

I accelerated from mildly annoyed to murderously pissed off

became

I did not react by yelling at him or freezing him out or anything. I probably said something like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" but we discussed everything calmly and slowly

and:

Last night we met at a bar for the first time since we agreed to date again.

became:

He wrote to ask if we could see each other, and I said we could, but that I was having a drink with a friend first and would contact him afterward.

and:

I'm so drunk that I tried to kiss her before you got here

later became:

I explained why I thought making out with someone else on a date night (and pointing her out to me) is unacceptable.

He never made out with anyone, according to your original description.

I think you need to step back and ask yourself if you often get so involved emotionally in situations that you act to protect yourself when maybe you do not need to. Even to the extent that maybe you aren't as honest with yourself as you should be.

Often times when we are hurt, especially when we are young, we get into patterns of defensive interaction which aren't so obvious to us, but are obvious to others. I'd look into that.

Usually when people do this, they are unaware of the depth of their self-protective coping mechanisms. I think here you are getting a bit of an understanding of them. We're not saying you are a bad person, but that you need to take a deeper look at what you are doing before you do it. You have acquired some self-defending tendencies which cause you to shade the truth to yourself. That's not a good habit.

I'm also going to suggest that when you are thinking about making plans or setting boundaries for relationships, that you take the conscious first step of asking yourself (1) Have I made any assumptions that I haven't communicated to him? and (2) What would be the effect of my ideas here.

We aren't trying to be harsh, we are just pointing out some pretty big inconsistencies that you appear to be blind to. That can be a real problem that you can easily address yourself without making yourself into a villain.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:25 PM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


I don't know what you should do, at all. But it seems to me that the way he greeted you was straight-up rude! What's up with that? What happened to "Hey I've missed you, it's nice to see you?" instead of "Oh I'm wasted and was just hitting on somebody else." And then his apology sounds like "It's not my fault, and you didn't tell me this that and the other thing, you're the problem."

I don't understand what some of you guys are thinking here. If I haven't seen someone in a while, and that person is someone who allegedly cares about me and wants to spend time with me, it's not very thoughtful to kick things off with that kind of a comment. It's not complicated.
posted by citron at 4:03 PM on March 9, 2010


The plans/no plans, exclusive/non-exclusive thing seems like a separate issue; what I read is that you hadn't seen him in a while and when you did, he was really drunk and one of the first things he said was kind of obnoxious. No wonder you were mad. I'd be mad. This is all getting blown up into this big deal about setting rules for people, but to me it just comes down to, why did you have to get drunk and be rude? I just don't understand. I get drunk and manage not to say shitty things to people I care about. It's not that hard.

I think you should trust your intuition, whatever it says, and all too often on MeFi I see women get berated for reacting the way they do and told they have all kinds of complicated issues. And there's all this blablabla about appropriate rules and boundaries as determined by other people and the necessity of setting them, which I also don't understand. It starts to feel like normal humans can't show normal human behavior any more without all this crazy overthinking and analysis. What I do understand is, if you care about me, don't get drunk and be rude. Maybe he was not - trust your intutition - but if he was IMHO that's a problem!
posted by citron at 4:19 PM on March 9, 2010


People get drunk and say stupid things, that's usually what happens when you drink and that's half the fun. Either you want to see this guy more or you don't. If the drinking is annoying, why don't you go on a date that isn't last minute and not at a bar?
posted by mattsweaters at 5:43 PM on March 9, 2010


oh, and sounds like you want your cake and to eat too. Either you want something casual with this guy or you don't, it's that simple.
posted by mattsweaters at 5:44 PM on March 9, 2010


« Older Buy Or Rent a Home   |   Easy YouTube embeds with custom dimensions? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.