unsafe elderly drivers
February 22, 2010 6:58 PM Subscribe
my elderly parents drive. there is a lot of evidence they should no longer be driving. they will not stop driving. what, if anything, can i do?
This is popular news show fodder. These articles may help:
ABC news
Other ABC news
I think the key is to be sensitive, but firm, about it. Don't be all passive aggressive like Brockles is suggesting.
posted by parkerjackson at 7:12 PM on February 22, 2010
ABC news
Other ABC news
I think the key is to be sensitive, but firm, about it. Don't be all passive aggressive like Brockles is suggesting.
posted by parkerjackson at 7:12 PM on February 22, 2010
PS- I don't know if the text articles mention this, but in the news program, the reporter said that she got her parents to stop driving by having them take a driving test. Her father was only convinced to stop driving when presented with hard evidence (from an independent observer) of how bad his driving had become.
Helping them find ways to maintain independence and making sure they have access to shopping and essentials is also important.
posted by parkerjackson at 7:15 PM on February 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Helping them find ways to maintain independence and making sure they have access to shopping and essentials is also important.
posted by parkerjackson at 7:15 PM on February 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
If they see a doctor frequently, you can tell the doctor they are still driving. But please don't wait for another accident.
posted by hexatron at 7:21 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by hexatron at 7:21 PM on February 22, 2010
If you've already had honest conversations with them about it and they refuse to stop driving, I think calling the police is exactly the right idea. What they are doing is dangerous and could seriously harm them or someone else. You can call the police and your local social services organization(s) for the elderly and ask what your options are. It's not passive aggressive. If your loved one had a habit of driving home drunk, and refused to stop the behavior even when confronted about it, wouldn't you call the police and ask what more you could do to keep them off the road? Not all dangerous drivers (whether the danger is due to intoxication, illness, or age) end up harming anyone, but this is not something you want to leave to luck.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:28 PM on February 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:28 PM on February 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Perhaps the car could be traded for a low speed electric vehicle?
posted by alexei at 7:41 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by alexei at 7:41 PM on February 22, 2010
Many physicians are aware of these issues and will cooperate with family members in ensuring that infirm elders no longer drive. Some will even go so far as to... decline to mention that family members prompted their actions.
Call your doctor and see what you can work out. This may be a win-win, as your parents stop driving, but you don't catch the heat for it.
posted by valkyryn at 7:47 PM on February 22, 2010
Call your doctor and see what you can work out. This may be a win-win, as your parents stop driving, but you don't catch the heat for it.
posted by valkyryn at 7:47 PM on February 22, 2010
In some states, you can report to the DMV and they will contact them and ask them to take a driving test. Your name will not be mentioned. Check your state laws or just call DMV.
posted by charlesminus at 7:49 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by charlesminus at 7:49 PM on February 22, 2010
One of my siblings is a driving instructor. He sometimes gets elderly people in for an evaluation drive, brought by concerned family members. Not a test, just to see how the geezers are doing.
One old guy looked like he could barely walk but he drove like a champ and got a clean report.
This might go over easier than a legally-binding DMV test, as long as everyone agrees to abide by the decision.
posted by trinity8-director at 7:54 PM on February 22, 2010
One old guy looked like he could barely walk but he drove like a champ and got a clean report.
This might go over easier than a legally-binding DMV test, as long as everyone agrees to abide by the decision.
posted by trinity8-director at 7:54 PM on February 22, 2010
What state are you in?
Some allow you to anonymously report unsafe drivers to the DMV, who will then summon them for a mandatory re-test. Note that the outcome is not always a total revocation of the license, sometimes it may result in just restrictions being placed on it (e.g. can't go on freeways, can only drive for such-and-such purposes like going to the store, etc.).
I know this is the case in California (which also does a free license-for-ID swap if you are indeed confirmed to be no longer eligible to drive).
posted by Yoshi Ayarane at 8:29 PM on February 22, 2010
Some allow you to anonymously report unsafe drivers to the DMV, who will then summon them for a mandatory re-test. Note that the outcome is not always a total revocation of the license, sometimes it may result in just restrictions being placed on it (e.g. can't go on freeways, can only drive for such-and-such purposes like going to the store, etc.).
I know this is the case in California (which also does a free license-for-ID swap if you are indeed confirmed to be no longer eligible to drive).
posted by Yoshi Ayarane at 8:29 PM on February 22, 2010
Either tell their doctor, or tell the DMV. We finally got them to take away my grandmother's license THANK GOD. Do it NOW, before they hurt someone (it seems that old people tend to drive the big, sturdy stereotypical old folks cars and then do tons of damage to others when they do get in an accident).
posted by ishotjr at 8:39 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by ishotjr at 8:39 PM on February 22, 2010
The problem with putting the onus on the family to stop elderly drivers overlooks two important points:
1) Many parents still think of their adult kids as somehow their KIDS and don't want to take orders, let alone advice, from their kids. (why no, I'm not bitter)
2) As long as they are not legally incompetent, they're adults, and good luck making an adult do something they don't want to do. I'm not saying don't try or don't talk to them, but adult children don't have much standing to make a legally competent parent do something.
For these reasons, the first step should be a chat with their doctor. Doctors have the leverage that you, the adult child, may not. So does the DMV, so do the police. If your parents' doctor can't or won't do anything, escalate to DMV and then police. However, in many states, doctors are legally required to let the DMV know if they think their patient is an unsafe driver (I know they do in CA).
Also, when you talk to the doctor (and/or DMV and/or police) be specific as to why your parents shouldn't be driving - not of the vague "Mom and Dad are too old to drive" ilk. Tell them specific, concrete things like: "Dad got lost going to the grocery store where he's been going the last 20 years." Or, "Mom has cataracts and diabetic neuropathy and has gotten into two fender-benders this past year because she can't see well or feel the gas pedal or brake."
Good luck! I wish you success. It's not as simple as "kids, take your parents' keys away." Adult children don't always have the leverage
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:06 PM on February 22, 2010
1) Many parents still think of their adult kids as somehow their KIDS and don't want to take orders, let alone advice, from their kids. (why no, I'm not bitter)
2) As long as they are not legally incompetent, they're adults, and good luck making an adult do something they don't want to do. I'm not saying don't try or don't talk to them, but adult children don't have much standing to make a legally competent parent do something.
For these reasons, the first step should be a chat with their doctor. Doctors have the leverage that you, the adult child, may not. So does the DMV, so do the police. If your parents' doctor can't or won't do anything, escalate to DMV and then police. However, in many states, doctors are legally required to let the DMV know if they think their patient is an unsafe driver (I know they do in CA).
Also, when you talk to the doctor (and/or DMV and/or police) be specific as to why your parents shouldn't be driving - not of the vague "Mom and Dad are too old to drive" ilk. Tell them specific, concrete things like: "Dad got lost going to the grocery store where he's been going the last 20 years." Or, "Mom has cataracts and diabetic neuropathy and has gotten into two fender-benders this past year because she can't see well or feel the gas pedal or brake."
Good luck! I wish you success. It's not as simple as "kids, take your parents' keys away." Adult children don't always have the leverage
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:06 PM on February 22, 2010
I'm not sure what good calling the police would be. They can't arbitrarily take away licenses - they'd have to have cause.
In many instances, driving is not just a matter of mobility and independence. It's a matter of getting food to eat, getting to doctors, having contact with the world. It's the basic necessities of life. Are you willing to take over this job for them? Do you have an alternative solution?
As the Boomers age (speaking as a Boomer), I see a huge need to address this issue, and I don't see any easy answers. You can't take away car keys unless you're willing to provide an alternative mode of transportation. Senior buses are often unreliable, late, dangerous. There's nothing worse than leaving a frail elderly person standing outside in a blizzard waiting for a bus that does not come.
If you have a good relationship with your parents, talk this all over with them. Help them find alternatives. But understand it's going to require work and commitment and possibly money on your part.
posted by clarkstonian at 9:08 PM on February 22, 2010
In many instances, driving is not just a matter of mobility and independence. It's a matter of getting food to eat, getting to doctors, having contact with the world. It's the basic necessities of life. Are you willing to take over this job for them? Do you have an alternative solution?
As the Boomers age (speaking as a Boomer), I see a huge need to address this issue, and I don't see any easy answers. You can't take away car keys unless you're willing to provide an alternative mode of transportation. Senior buses are often unreliable, late, dangerous. There's nothing worse than leaving a frail elderly person standing outside in a blizzard waiting for a bus that does not come.
If you have a good relationship with your parents, talk this all over with them. Help them find alternatives. But understand it's going to require work and commitment and possibly money on your part.
posted by clarkstonian at 9:08 PM on February 22, 2010
I had a friend that called the police on his mother when he found out she was driving to the store after self-medicating herself for the upteenth time (after the doctors told her not to). It might be humiliating for both parties, but it's a lot less humiliating than killing someone.
posted by june made him a gemini at 9:10 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by june made him a gemini at 9:10 PM on February 22, 2010
Whatever you do, please ACT. Don't wait for something to happen that is magnitudes more horrible than some hurt feelings.
posted by philip-random at 9:20 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by philip-random at 9:20 PM on February 22, 2010
When you talk to your parents, offer solutions as well. When my grandmother gave up driving (and gave me her car!) my parents set up an account with the local cab company so she could take a cab to the store/bank/etc... without worrying about the cost.
posted by vespabelle at 9:47 PM on February 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by vespabelle at 9:47 PM on February 22, 2010 [5 favorites]
>: Do they live someplace walkable they can live without a car without much loss of convenience? Can you affect that?
I think this is key here.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:05 PM on February 22, 2010
I think this is key here.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:05 PM on February 22, 2010
Re: something you can suggest to your parents so they can still keep their independence and get around for errands:
Mr. hgg used to drive taxi for a company that was the favourite of local elderly folks whose licenses had been taken away/surrendered. The company he worked for had these pre-paid cards that they could use whenever they took a taxi to the grocery store or wherever. They or their kids would make sure the card was topped up every month and then getting to the store was just a matter of phoning for a taxi. It ended up being cheaper than keeping and maintaining their own vehicle, what with insurance and gas and the cost of the car itself. He said a lot of the elderly people were kind of pissed off at first that they'd had to give up their licenses, but that the easy access to the taxi made them feel like they still had their independence. You might want to see if you could set something similar up with a local taxi company that has a reputation for drivers who are friendly and patient with older folks.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:57 PM on February 22, 2010
Mr. hgg used to drive taxi for a company that was the favourite of local elderly folks whose licenses had been taken away/surrendered. The company he worked for had these pre-paid cards that they could use whenever they took a taxi to the grocery store or wherever. They or their kids would make sure the card was topped up every month and then getting to the store was just a matter of phoning for a taxi. It ended up being cheaper than keeping and maintaining their own vehicle, what with insurance and gas and the cost of the car itself. He said a lot of the elderly people were kind of pissed off at first that they'd had to give up their licenses, but that the easy access to the taxi made them feel like they still had their independence. You might want to see if you could set something similar up with a local taxi company that has a reputation for drivers who are friendly and patient with older folks.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:57 PM on February 22, 2010
Just had to do this with my Grandmother. The thought of even the POSSIBILITY of her taking someone's life or doing great bodily harm to herself or others terrified me. It took persistent reasoning and finally taking her keys away, but also having a solution for how she would get around - namely a handful of family friends on call and a taxi service, which she has no problem taking to the store, etc.
I will say that one thing that helped me is to realize that my 90 year old grandmother is at a point in her life where she is acting like a willfull teenager. She doesn't want to be told what to do and she thinks she knows best and no one will get hurt and that she has all the common sense in the world, which she DOES. NOT. The key has been finding a way to maintain the feeling of independence without the danger of actually handing over the keys. It takes trial and error and having solutions, not just pointing out problems.
It's not easy, but it's important. Good luck!
posted by buzzkillington at 11:38 PM on February 22, 2010
I will say that one thing that helped me is to realize that my 90 year old grandmother is at a point in her life where she is acting like a willfull teenager. She doesn't want to be told what to do and she thinks she knows best and no one will get hurt and that she has all the common sense in the world, which she DOES. NOT. The key has been finding a way to maintain the feeling of independence without the danger of actually handing over the keys. It takes trial and error and having solutions, not just pointing out problems.
It's not easy, but it's important. Good luck!
posted by buzzkillington at 11:38 PM on February 22, 2010
I will say that one thing that helped me is to realize that my 90 year old grandmother is at a point in her life where she is acting like a willfull teenager. She doesn't want to be told what to do and she thinks she knows best and no one will get hurt and that she has all the common sense in the world,
This is key. Life is nothing if not symmetrical. We start out irrational and self-centered and, assuming we reach a ripe old age, generally end up much the same. Those who once nurtured us and set boundaries inevitably require nurturing and, sadly, boundaries.
posted by philip-random at 12:48 AM on February 23, 2010
This is key. Life is nothing if not symmetrical. We start out irrational and self-centered and, assuming we reach a ripe old age, generally end up much the same. Those who once nurtured us and set boundaries inevitably require nurturing and, sadly, boundaries.
posted by philip-random at 12:48 AM on February 23, 2010
I'd recommend (if you are in the US) calling your local Area Agency on Aging. They should be familiar with the laws of your state, and I would imagine they've dealt with this before - they may be able to guide you through the legal or familial steps of handling this issue.
posted by pants at 4:54 AM on February 23, 2010
posted by pants at 4:54 AM on February 23, 2010
When we were in this situation with one grandparent we did a 'think of the children' - my mum sat down and had a conversation with my grandad about the possibility of him running down the queue of kids waiting for the school bus. That image was enough for him to stop.
Other grandparent, who had dementia, the local community sort of ganged up - with family permission, and full knowledge of her doctor the local garage took her car and didn't give it back. So every time she asked where it was, "It's being serviced"; and even if she went into the garage to ask they'd say it still needed a few more repairs.
Less involved than that, it's quite common for people to unplug some important cables in the engine so the car doesn't start when relatives have dementia that makes it dangerous for them to drive. That also avoids "why can't I drive/where's the car" arguments happening every other day; they just find that the car won't start.
I have no idea about the USA, but here in the UK doctors have a duty to report people who are unsafe to drive.
Only you know which of these approaches (broadly: direct, indirect reporting, downright sneaky) is appropriate in your circumstances.
posted by Coobeastie at 7:11 AM on February 23, 2010
Other grandparent, who had dementia, the local community sort of ganged up - with family permission, and full knowledge of her doctor the local garage took her car and didn't give it back. So every time she asked where it was, "It's being serviced"; and even if she went into the garage to ask they'd say it still needed a few more repairs.
Less involved than that, it's quite common for people to unplug some important cables in the engine so the car doesn't start when relatives have dementia that makes it dangerous for them to drive. That also avoids "why can't I drive/where's the car" arguments happening every other day; they just find that the car won't start.
I have no idea about the USA, but here in the UK doctors have a duty to report people who are unsafe to drive.
Only you know which of these approaches (broadly: direct, indirect reporting, downright sneaky) is appropriate in your circumstances.
posted by Coobeastie at 7:11 AM on February 23, 2010
If they don't drive, how will they get groceries, medications, get to doctor's visits, the gym, the mall, go visit friends? Do the research and answer those questions. It's probably pretty affordable to take cabs, once you stop paying for car insurance and repair.
Definitely contact the local Area Agency on Aging, and also find a way for them to each take a driver's test. Stress that you are concerned for their safety.
posted by theora55 at 7:47 AM on February 23, 2010
Definitely contact the local Area Agency on Aging, and also find a way for them to each take a driver's test. Stress that you are concerned for their safety.
posted by theora55 at 7:47 AM on February 23, 2010
We had to do this with our grandfather. Past 90, just out of hospital after losing most of his eyesight to MRSA. We met him on a country road doing 25 straddling the white line. Got home and went to see him, with some trepidation.
Us: Did we see you out driving today?
Grandpa: Nooooo ...
Us: Funny, we thought yours was the only T-reg blue Escort Ghia on the road around here.
Grandpa: Okay, you caught me. Had to try to see if it could work. Never been so scared in my life. We'll sell the car, please take away the keys.
So it went better than we thought.
posted by scruss at 7:56 AM on February 23, 2010
Us: Did we see you out driving today?
Grandpa: Nooooo ...
Us: Funny, we thought yours was the only T-reg blue Escort Ghia on the road around here.
Grandpa: Okay, you caught me. Had to try to see if it could work. Never been so scared in my life. We'll sell the car, please take away the keys.
So it went better than we thought.
posted by scruss at 7:56 AM on February 23, 2010
My uncle was driving through town once when another driver almost hit his car. He got pissed off and followed them to a car to yell at them, and it was his mom (my grandmother). She quit driving shortly after that, but it was about ten years of terror overdue, with lots of her complaining about how other people kept hitting her car in parking lots along the way. I swear I left claw marks in her car seats from when she scared me driving us around. If you suggested she quit driving she'd get really pouty and wouldn't talk to you for a while. If you can swing it, get the doctor to say they can't drive anymore and keep you out of it.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2010
Do whatever you have to do. My grandfather was so stubborn, he said if we took the car away, he would go out an buy another car with cash. He had the means to do it. We didn't take the keys away from him, and he ended up crashing into a field. The car subsequently caught on fire and he had to be rescued by some passersby. He was dead three days later.
posted by jasondigitized at 4:53 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by jasondigitized at 4:53 PM on February 23, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
You don't give us much to go on, but elderly drivers can be a menace through failing eye sight, general slower movement and extremely poor reactions. Your only statement that there is 'plenty of evidence' suggests that showing this evidence to the appropriate authorities (Police? Driving license issuers? I don't even know what country you are in).
While it is a harsh blow to mobility and independence to older folk, if there driving is a danger to themselves and (more importantly to my mind) and a danger to others, then your only responsible action is to prevent them from driving. If direct persuasion fails, you have to go above them to more formal action.
posted by Brockles at 7:06 PM on February 22, 2010