Question about the movie Secretary, and recommendations for D/s movies
January 31, 2005 11:30 PM Subscribe
In Secretary there is a scene where Maggie Gyllenhaal is putting on blue eyeshadow, her hair is braided, and I swear it's familiar, also later she's setting a rat trap and the 'movie deja vu' happens again. Is this scene supposed to echo another movie or am I imagining things? Also, are there any other movies that have a decent portrayal of D/s relationships?
No idea about the movie echo (sorry), but some movies with kind of subtle D/s references might be:
**most things w/ Ralph Fiennes (total submissive), for instance, one good scene in that awful movie The Avengers, where Ralph puts on Uma's boots and it's all about the look he gives her...
**Damage with Jeremy Irons (s) and Juliette Binoche (D)
**Endgame (boy/boy)
**The Lover
**Happy Together (Tony Leung & Leslie Cheung)
**Baise-moi?
**Mulholland Drive? (trying to get the ladies in here)
**The Hunger!
**Fire Walk with Me
**Naked Lunch
**Master and Commander? (heh heh)
There's got to be more, but I can't seem to think of them...
posted by ibeji at 6:17 AM on February 1, 2005
**most things w/ Ralph Fiennes (total submissive), for instance, one good scene in that awful movie The Avengers, where Ralph puts on Uma's boots and it's all about the look he gives her...
**Damage with Jeremy Irons (s) and Juliette Binoche (D)
**Endgame (boy/boy)
**The Lover
**Happy Together (Tony Leung & Leslie Cheung)
**Baise-moi?
**Mulholland Drive? (trying to get the ladies in here)
**The Hunger!
**Fire Walk with Me
**Naked Lunch
**Master and Commander? (heh heh)
There's got to be more, but I can't seem to think of them...
posted by ibeji at 6:17 AM on February 1, 2005
Best answer: skylar: becomes difficult to figure out who's the dom and who's the sub.
Wow. Really? Wow.
nile_red: Movies that have a decent portrayal of d/s relationships... hmmm. Not a lot. I couldn't make it all the way through Quills because of the over-acting, And from what I did see of it, De Sade was such a complete asswipe that I probably would have ended up simply being disgusted with the whole thing. But a number of my d/s friends liked it. A lot of the same people likewise went ga-ga over Dee Snider's Strangeland. According to them, there are some really great piercing / body modification type scenes. But since that's not really my cup of tea, I haven't bothered to see it.
I think I mentioned before on AskMe the scene near the beginning of Exit to Eden where-in the boy suckers the maid into spanking him. We call subs who do this SAMs - Smart Assed Masochists; they act in a manner that makes you want to smack them until you do, in fact, smack them. Then everyone is happy. (One of my best friends is a SAM and I can't tell you how many times she's used this trick to get what she wanted. It's kind of a ritual we have.) So, in a sense, that's the most realistic portrayal of a bdsm liason I've seen in a film. However, much of the rest of the movie was fairly weak. There were some bright spots - the domme figuring out that the guy wanted to be spanked with the hairbrush, for example - but for the most part the movie is just a fantasy. The Secretary, on the whole, probably does do the best job. To be honest, I've still not made up my mind about certain elements of the story - and I think there's more to the movie than just a depiction of a d/s relationship; I think the writer and director had additional objectives - but there's a lot there that's very, very convincing and, I think, accurate; the submissive's desire to please being the most obvious.
I've seen only parts of the Story of O movie (which apparently is about ten separate movies, each one perhaps an hour long) and was astounded at how boring it was. The novel on which the movies are based, however, is the most intelligent and most psychologically accurate portrayal of a bdsm relationship I've ever seen in a work of fiction. Anne Rice's psuedonymonous stuff is, while occasionally conducive to heavy breathing, not even on the planet Earth when it comes to describing relationships as they exist between doms and subs in the real world. And that's fine; Anne is writing fantasies. Fantasy is nice. It just shouldn't be confused with reality.
That's all I can think of right now. I feel like there must be something else, something I'm forgetting. If it occurs to me later, I'll post it.
You might check out the masochism-in-movies thread here in AskMe; some of those suggestions could be relevant. However, there is often a huge difference between someone who wants to receive pain and someone who is genuinely submissive.
All in all, movies have done a piss poor job of depicting dom/sub relationships. I mean, some of the stuff I see out there is not just inaccurate or lame but down right nasty and intolerant.
On preview: ibeji, I can't remember anything in Mullholland Drive pertaining to dominance and submission. Was there a particular scene you had in mind?
posted by Clay201 at 6:34 AM on February 1, 2005
Wow. Really? Wow.
nile_red: Movies that have a decent portrayal of d/s relationships... hmmm. Not a lot. I couldn't make it all the way through Quills because of the over-acting, And from what I did see of it, De Sade was such a complete asswipe that I probably would have ended up simply being disgusted with the whole thing. But a number of my d/s friends liked it. A lot of the same people likewise went ga-ga over Dee Snider's Strangeland. According to them, there are some really great piercing / body modification type scenes. But since that's not really my cup of tea, I haven't bothered to see it.
I think I mentioned before on AskMe the scene near the beginning of Exit to Eden where-in the boy suckers the maid into spanking him. We call subs who do this SAMs - Smart Assed Masochists; they act in a manner that makes you want to smack them until you do, in fact, smack them. Then everyone is happy. (One of my best friends is a SAM and I can't tell you how many times she's used this trick to get what she wanted. It's kind of a ritual we have.) So, in a sense, that's the most realistic portrayal of a bdsm liason I've seen in a film. However, much of the rest of the movie was fairly weak. There were some bright spots - the domme figuring out that the guy wanted to be spanked with the hairbrush, for example - but for the most part the movie is just a fantasy. The Secretary, on the whole, probably does do the best job. To be honest, I've still not made up my mind about certain elements of the story - and I think there's more to the movie than just a depiction of a d/s relationship; I think the writer and director had additional objectives - but there's a lot there that's very, very convincing and, I think, accurate; the submissive's desire to please being the most obvious.
I've seen only parts of the Story of O movie (which apparently is about ten separate movies, each one perhaps an hour long) and was astounded at how boring it was. The novel on which the movies are based, however, is the most intelligent and most psychologically accurate portrayal of a bdsm relationship I've ever seen in a work of fiction. Anne Rice's psuedonymonous stuff is, while occasionally conducive to heavy breathing, not even on the planet Earth when it comes to describing relationships as they exist between doms and subs in the real world. And that's fine; Anne is writing fantasies. Fantasy is nice. It just shouldn't be confused with reality.
That's all I can think of right now. I feel like there must be something else, something I'm forgetting. If it occurs to me later, I'll post it.
You might check out the masochism-in-movies thread here in AskMe; some of those suggestions could be relevant. However, there is often a huge difference between someone who wants to receive pain and someone who is genuinely submissive.
All in all, movies have done a piss poor job of depicting dom/sub relationships. I mean, some of the stuff I see out there is not just inaccurate or lame but down right nasty and intolerant.
On preview: ibeji, I can't remember anything in Mullholland Drive pertaining to dominance and submission. Was there a particular scene you had in mind?
posted by Clay201 at 6:34 AM on February 1, 2005
Just referring to the whole mindfuck thing with one woman flaunting her male lover in front of the female lover... it seemed to bring out other dom/sub elements of their relationship that were always just below the surface.... (vague I know, maybe wishful thinking?)
Plus, I was sticking to more emotional aspects of the dynamic... skylar, did you want more physical (flagellation and such)? If so, someone recently mentioned Sick with Bob Flanagan--awesome, awesome documentary!!! Bob was one of a kind. Someone should jump in here and give us some films--I really want to see more D/s cinema, too!
posted by ibeji at 7:51 AM on February 1, 2005
Plus, I was sticking to more emotional aspects of the dynamic... skylar, did you want more physical (flagellation and such)? If so, someone recently mentioned Sick with Bob Flanagan--awesome, awesome documentary!!! Bob was one of a kind. Someone should jump in here and give us some films--I really want to see more D/s cinema, too!
posted by ibeji at 7:51 AM on February 1, 2005
ibeji, I'd say that most of those movies do nothing to detail to D/s relationships that may or may not exist in them. Hints, overtures and references really don't portray anything. nile_red would be quite disappointed to sit through the majority of them in hopes of seeing anything worthwhile.
posted by FlamingBore at 8:12 AM on February 1, 2005
posted by FlamingBore at 8:12 AM on February 1, 2005
Master and Commander?
Where was the D/s in that movie?
posted by jsavimbi at 8:36 AM on February 1, 2005
Where was the D/s in that movie?
posted by jsavimbi at 8:36 AM on February 1, 2005
Master and Commander?
Where was the D/s in that movie?
"The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash."
posted by Verdant at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2005
Where was the D/s in that movie?
"The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash."
posted by Verdant at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2005
Okay, this is off the topic but weird and I think you Mefites will find it interesting... Because of this post, I was reminded that Secretary was a movie I was interested in checking out. So, I went to Netflix and from there clicked on the Official Movie Site link... What on earth is Bureau 713? I googled it and a quick glance at the results looks like it might be a site for the movie Alone in the Dark... Hmm.
posted by amro at 10:27 AM on February 1, 2005
posted by amro at 10:27 AM on February 1, 2005
Response by poster: amro, Secretary is a good movie, and I think not just for the D/s set, but...I wouldn't watch it with my mom...definitely with a rent though.
posted by nile_red at 12:02 PM on February 1, 2005
posted by nile_red at 12:02 PM on February 1, 2005
It's not, like, accurate in a, like, real life way, because it's David Lynch and he's overtly courtly psychoanalytic interpretation, but Blue Velvet has some serious D/s stuff going on.
posted by SoftRain at 6:10 PM on February 1, 2005
posted by SoftRain at 6:10 PM on February 1, 2005
amro:
I think Bureau 713 is the org. Christian Slater works for in 'Alone in the Dark.'
I'm not sure, because I will never, ever, ever, subject myself to that movie.
posted by maledictory at 9:03 PM on February 1, 2005
I think Bureau 713 is the org. Christian Slater works for in 'Alone in the Dark.'
I'm not sure, because I will never, ever, ever, subject myself to that movie.
posted by maledictory at 9:03 PM on February 1, 2005
ibeji, I'd say that most of those movies do nothing to detail to D/s relationships that may or may not exist in them. Hints, overtures and references really don't portray anything. nile_red would be quite disappointed to sit through the majority of them in hopes of seeing anything worthwhile.
Hints & overtones are *everything*, my dear, esp. in D/s relationships! ;~) Nile_red may or not be disappointed, but these movie sure worked for me--perhaps they will work for others seeking any darker elements in mainstream movies... It depends on what you're looking for when you say D/s; Happy Together definitely has all the emotional & sexual elements, though you won't see the expected costumes & scenarios we're taught to look for. There are no rules except the ones your Dom sets before you, right? If you need the typical SM mise en scene, go see The Night Porter (heard it was good for that, tho I haven't seen it yet).
Verdant, awesome quote!
posted by ibeji at 5:26 AM on February 2, 2005
Hints & overtones are *everything*, my dear, esp. in D/s relationships! ;~) Nile_red may or not be disappointed, but these movie sure worked for me--perhaps they will work for others seeking any darker elements in mainstream movies... It depends on what you're looking for when you say D/s; Happy Together definitely has all the emotional & sexual elements, though you won't see the expected costumes & scenarios we're taught to look for. There are no rules except the ones your Dom sets before you, right? If you need the typical SM mise en scene, go see The Night Porter (heard it was good for that, tho I haven't seen it yet).
Verdant, awesome quote!
posted by ibeji at 5:26 AM on February 2, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
Goes into BDSM territory too, though this is very much a soft focus, soft erotica 70s French flick.
posted by skylar at 2:16 AM on February 1, 2005