Help me to do an Iron Cross to win a bet
February 14, 2010 5:09 PM Subscribe
Help me to do an Iron Cross to win a bet
I'm coming off of a serious leg injury that left me unable to walk for several months. For months I crutched everywhere and lifted weights to try to keep from becoming fat, so my shoulders got pretty strong. Anyway, I was drinking with my buddies last week, feeling cocky, and somehow I found myself making a bet that could do an Iron Cross for 5 seconds by the end of June.
I've seen been to my gym (which has rings) to see maybe how close I am to this feat, and, honestly, it seems f'ing impossible. Seriously.
Given that I have about 4.5 months to make it happen, I'm not too nervous, but I could definitely use some training tips. Anyone know what kinds of exercises I should do to prepare for an Iron Cross and win this bet??
I'm coming off of a serious leg injury that left me unable to walk for several months. For months I crutched everywhere and lifted weights to try to keep from becoming fat, so my shoulders got pretty strong. Anyway, I was drinking with my buddies last week, feeling cocky, and somehow I found myself making a bet that could do an Iron Cross for 5 seconds by the end of June.
I've seen been to my gym (which has rings) to see maybe how close I am to this feat, and, honestly, it seems f'ing impossible. Seriously.
Given that I have about 4.5 months to make it happen, I'm not too nervous, but I could definitely use some training tips. Anyone know what kinds of exercises I should do to prepare for an Iron Cross and win this bet??
First of all, in competition, the Iron Cross is held for just 2 seconds to be deemed legit. See if you can modify the terms of the bet.
Secondly, lose as much weight in fat as you can. Nearly everything in gymnastics is about strength-to-weight ratio, which explains why top-notch gymnasts are tiny people. If you just start throwing weights around in a gym without trimming your fat percentage, you're toast.
Finally, this is going to be as much about technique as it is exercise. Get yourself some real ring grips. Start by doing a static press and dips to get your balance. Then try lowering yourself slowly into the cross, starting with little angled crosses first (not all the way down), and pushing back up.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:19 PM on February 14, 2010
Secondly, lose as much weight in fat as you can. Nearly everything in gymnastics is about strength-to-weight ratio, which explains why top-notch gymnasts are tiny people. If you just start throwing weights around in a gym without trimming your fat percentage, you're toast.
Finally, this is going to be as much about technique as it is exercise. Get yourself some real ring grips. Start by doing a static press and dips to get your balance. Then try lowering yourself slowly into the cross, starting with little angled crosses first (not all the way down), and pushing back up.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:19 PM on February 14, 2010
Note carefully the size of that guy's delts. Work out accordingly.
posted by aquafortis at 5:27 PM on February 14, 2010
posted by aquafortis at 5:27 PM on February 14, 2010
you'll need to be supporting yourself with some comparatively small muscles, which is one of the reasons this is so hard. you might look at a shoulder circuit of 20 lateral raises, 20 front raises, 20 standing presses (all with dumbbells, obvs), three sets at a time. you'll also need to work on your lats, which to me says seated or kneeling (kneeling are harder and give you some ab work as well) lat pulls on a cable machine.
posted by patricking at 5:35 PM on February 14, 2010
posted by patricking at 5:35 PM on February 14, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the advice so far!
Cool Papa Bell: quick question: what specifically is the static press? An exercise to be done on the rings?
posted by kryptonik at 5:54 PM on February 14, 2010
Cool Papa Bell: quick question: what specifically is the static press? An exercise to be done on the rings?
posted by kryptonik at 5:54 PM on February 14, 2010
what specifically is the static press?
Like this, without the extended legs. In other words, hold yourself at the top of a dip for as long as you can, to understand balance and build some strength.
Also, check this out.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:05 PM on February 14, 2010
Like this, without the extended legs. In other words, hold yourself at the top of a dip for as long as you can, to understand balance and build some strength.
Also, check this out.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:05 PM on February 14, 2010
Here is a detailed article on training the iron cross. A google search for "iron cross training" yields more results.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:32 PM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ludwig_van at 6:32 PM on February 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Metafilter is barely capable of giving appropriate basic weight-training advice. An Iron Cross is one of the more difficult gymnastics movements and unless someone here was a competitive gymnast I don't know if you're going to be able to get an appropriate training plan here (for instance, the person linking to ExRx essentially suggesting hypertrophy exercises for an isometric movement? What?!).
Get over to the Gymnastics Bodies forums and ask your question there. Also, look through Drills and Skills.
Start losing as much fat as possible. If you do any weight training with your legs, stop (the extra muscle on your lower body is good for general health, bad for learning a very difficult upper-body isometric movement quickly). Good luck.
posted by Anonymous at 9:06 PM on February 14, 2010
Get over to the Gymnastics Bodies forums and ask your question there. Also, look through Drills and Skills.
Start losing as much fat as possible. If you do any weight training with your legs, stop (the extra muscle on your lower body is good for general health, bad for learning a very difficult upper-body isometric movement quickly). Good luck.
posted by Anonymous at 9:06 PM on February 14, 2010
Best answer: Here goes, from someone who is about 90% of the way there :) I've been training for about 7 months.
(but see www.gymnasticbodies.com for MUCH good training advice)
The first thing I'd say is educate yourself about the muscles involved, and their actions.
1. Support yourself on the rings, ie you've jumped up, holding the rings. The rings are by your sides, your elbows are held tight to your body. Keep the elbows extended (ie don't bend them), and practice until you can hold yourself steady - no wobbling.
2. Some technique, once you've mastered #1.
i) turn the rings out, so your right palm faces diagonally to the left, left palm faces diagonally right. Again, practice until you can hold this position. Turning the rings out takes some of the load off the pec major muscle and brings the larger and stronger lats into play.
ii) Push DOWN on the rings ie push your shoulder blades down. Push your legs together firmly. Bend slightly at the waist. All this keeps your body tight so you can focus on your shoulders and biceps (biomechanically, biceps seem to bear most of the strain - they stop your elbows from going past 180 degrees! Just out of interest, when you can do a full cross, each shoulder holds something like 4.5 - 6.5 times your bodyweight, depending on the exact details of how your muscles are attached to their various bones).
3. Now, move your arms away from your body a small amount - keep your body tight, keep the rings turned out (your little fingers should be the fingers closest to the floor) - and then pull your arms back to your body. Repeat 5 or 6 times. It's hard. It's very hard.
4. Once you get to the point of not being able to move your arms back to your body, move your arms away from the body again, and just try to hold at the end.
Be prepared for a LOT of soreness, especially at the biceps tendon just above your elbows. If it's sore for more than a few days after training, though, back right off. Your forearms will also be painful.
You will have to experiment and see how many days a week you can train. I can't do it more than 2 days/week because my recovery time is long (I'm male, 42, 173cm or 5'8", around 72kg just as a comparison).
(by the way, any ladies reading this, there's nothing stopping you from trying rings, either. There are a few ladies at my gym who can almost do a back lever.)
Other training tips
1. Get some proper coaching. Seriously. When my coach saw what I'd achieved on my own, which was arms about 35 degrees away from my body, he said "OK turn the rings out, press the legs together, tuck at the waist, pull the shoulderblades down" and with NO further training I was able to get almost 55 degrees away from my body. Technique counts for a LOT.
2. Use some Therabands to hold some of your weight so that you can practice getting in to the full cross position. Even though you're being supported, it still feels great
3. Ask your coach to get you to do a full back lever (palms towards the ground). This also stresses the biceps, and is a good way of building up condition.
4. Weighted pullups (hands facing away from you over the bar) and chinups (hands facing towards you) will also help.
This method is probably not the way a "proper" gymnast builds up, but it's what I've been doing and I'm so close I can taste it!
Feel free to ask any more questions.
posted by flutable at 10:24 PM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
(but see www.gymnasticbodies.com for MUCH good training advice)
The first thing I'd say is educate yourself about the muscles involved, and their actions.
1. Support yourself on the rings, ie you've jumped up, holding the rings. The rings are by your sides, your elbows are held tight to your body. Keep the elbows extended (ie don't bend them), and practice until you can hold yourself steady - no wobbling.
2. Some technique, once you've mastered #1.
i) turn the rings out, so your right palm faces diagonally to the left, left palm faces diagonally right. Again, practice until you can hold this position. Turning the rings out takes some of the load off the pec major muscle and brings the larger and stronger lats into play.
ii) Push DOWN on the rings ie push your shoulder blades down. Push your legs together firmly. Bend slightly at the waist. All this keeps your body tight so you can focus on your shoulders and biceps (biomechanically, biceps seem to bear most of the strain - they stop your elbows from going past 180 degrees! Just out of interest, when you can do a full cross, each shoulder holds something like 4.5 - 6.5 times your bodyweight, depending on the exact details of how your muscles are attached to their various bones).
3. Now, move your arms away from your body a small amount - keep your body tight, keep the rings turned out (your little fingers should be the fingers closest to the floor) - and then pull your arms back to your body. Repeat 5 or 6 times. It's hard. It's very hard.
4. Once you get to the point of not being able to move your arms back to your body, move your arms away from the body again, and just try to hold at the end.
Be prepared for a LOT of soreness, especially at the biceps tendon just above your elbows. If it's sore for more than a few days after training, though, back right off. Your forearms will also be painful.
You will have to experiment and see how many days a week you can train. I can't do it more than 2 days/week because my recovery time is long (I'm male, 42, 173cm or 5'8", around 72kg just as a comparison).
(by the way, any ladies reading this, there's nothing stopping you from trying rings, either. There are a few ladies at my gym who can almost do a back lever.)
Other training tips
1. Get some proper coaching. Seriously. When my coach saw what I'd achieved on my own, which was arms about 35 degrees away from my body, he said "OK turn the rings out, press the legs together, tuck at the waist, pull the shoulderblades down" and with NO further training I was able to get almost 55 degrees away from my body. Technique counts for a LOT.
2. Use some Therabands to hold some of your weight so that you can practice getting in to the full cross position. Even though you're being supported, it still feels great
3. Ask your coach to get you to do a full back lever (palms towards the ground). This also stresses the biceps, and is a good way of building up condition.
4. Weighted pullups (hands facing away from you over the bar) and chinups (hands facing towards you) will also help.
This method is probably not the way a "proper" gymnast builds up, but it's what I've been doing and I'm so close I can taste it!
Feel free to ask any more questions.
posted by flutable at 10:24 PM on February 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
Seconding the whole getting-a-coach concept. You are most likely going to have to lose significant fat (unless you're already as lean as a competitive gymnast), while at the same time building up strength in a lot of relatively little-used muscles. Crutching everywhere might have given you excellent strength in some muscles, but chances are that other muscles in your shoulders, arms, and back are not as well-developed. That kind of muscular imbalance will set you up for some really nasty overuse injuries without having proper coaching (especially if your training technique isn't absolutely perfect to begin with), and shoulder injuries take a long time to heal.
And, as other people have said, this is going to be as much about technique as it is about strength. Getting a coach will help you to achieve proper technique.
posted by kataclysm at 8:26 AM on February 15, 2010
And, as other people have said, this is going to be as much about technique as it is about strength. Getting a coach will help you to achieve proper technique.
posted by kataclysm at 8:26 AM on February 15, 2010
A few other things that come to mind.
Learn the false grip. It will help with keeping your arms rigid and more or less straight, and helps keep the rings stable. It also slightly shortens the distance between the point where your hands curl around the rings, and the point where your lats and pecs attach to your humerus (the bone in the upper arm). Shortening the distance makes the exercise easier.
Your forearm extensors (on the top of your forearm) will become sore. Do a few reverse wrist curls, or some work with extensor bands (link to a product).
Good luck!
posted by flutable at 4:25 PM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Learn the false grip. It will help with keeping your arms rigid and more or less straight, and helps keep the rings stable. It also slightly shortens the distance between the point where your hands curl around the rings, and the point where your lats and pecs attach to your humerus (the bone in the upper arm). Shortening the distance makes the exercise easier.
Your forearm extensors (on the top of your forearm) will become sore. Do a few reverse wrist curls, or some work with extensor bands (link to a product).
Good luck!
posted by flutable at 4:25 PM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: flutable: thank you so much for the advice. Glad to hear that you're close! 4.5 months does not seem like enough time given your 7+ months of training and what I've seen elsewhere on the internet, but I'm going to do my best! My first training appointment with a coach is tomorrow AM.
posted by kryptonik at 8:24 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by kryptonik at 8:24 AM on February 17, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Bench presses and squats are useful for developing upper body strength. So are pullups, chinups, and to a lesser extent, pushups.
posted by dfriedman at 5:12 PM on February 14, 2010