Coder Lawyer Needs Help
February 12, 2010 12:36 AM Subscribe
So, I used to be a low level systems programmer with a CS degree and a late 80s early 90s hacker (asm, telenet, tymnet) background. Then i became an IP lawyer.
I worked for a while at some companies in CS, then in 2002 i went to a fancy law school and since then have worked for fancy law firms in Boston and in Silicon Valley. This work is no longer for me. I have a lot of fancy degrees and I have a lot of intellectual interests. Please help me sort them.
Currently I have to pass the CA bar exam but there's a difference between sucking it up for 3 weeks and sucking it up for 8 weeks. Basically, this sucks.
Without moving back to MA, what kind of jobs can i seek in CA that won't be prejudiced by my non-legal-admission to CA, or my pending admission thereto?
I failed the CA bar exam once because of the combination of (1) handwriting and (2) writing like a real lawyer. I won't make those mistakes again but that's not really the point.
I would like to stay in Silicon Valley and not do legal stuff, or at least not law firm legal stuff, and would like advice on in-house or random other stuff I haven't thought of.
I am a better programmer than many kids who don't know why bytecode even means, just because I am a little older. So that's something. Also, I have gone to very fancy schools and coded fancy shit, blah blah, if anyone cares, yo.
I worked for a while at some companies in CS, then in 2002 i went to a fancy law school and since then have worked for fancy law firms in Boston and in Silicon Valley. This work is no longer for me. I have a lot of fancy degrees and I have a lot of intellectual interests. Please help me sort them.
Currently I have to pass the CA bar exam but there's a difference between sucking it up for 3 weeks and sucking it up for 8 weeks. Basically, this sucks.
Without moving back to MA, what kind of jobs can i seek in CA that won't be prejudiced by my non-legal-admission to CA, or my pending admission thereto?
I failed the CA bar exam once because of the combination of (1) handwriting and (2) writing like a real lawyer. I won't make those mistakes again but that's not really the point.
I would like to stay in Silicon Valley and not do legal stuff, or at least not law firm legal stuff, and would like advice on in-house or random other stuff I haven't thought of.
I am a better programmer than many kids who don't know why bytecode even means, just because I am a little older. So that's something. Also, I have gone to very fancy schools and coded fancy shit, blah blah, if anyone cares, yo.
I am also an ex IT person (network engineer) who moved into Law ... and I have been a lawyer for the last 5 years.
If you hate fancy law firms and fancy law firm hours, you may enjoy in-house a lot more. It is more varied, better hours, no time sheets, and closer to the business / more business focussed. But the pay ain't as good (still very good though). In house for an IT firm may suit you well ... especially if it is a software house and you work on their business agreements ... you would be their first lawyer who read and understood their contracts AND the attached project documents and SOW's.
posted by jannw at 2:00 AM on February 12, 2010
If you hate fancy law firms and fancy law firm hours, you may enjoy in-house a lot more. It is more varied, better hours, no time sheets, and closer to the business / more business focussed. But the pay ain't as good (still very good though). In house for an IT firm may suit you well ... especially if it is a software house and you work on their business agreements ... you would be their first lawyer who read and understood their contracts AND the attached project documents and SOW's.
posted by jannw at 2:00 AM on February 12, 2010
How would you feel about becoming a patent examiner, or working in tech-related advocacy? As I understand it, you could use both your legal and tech skills and domain knowledge without having to go through the bar again.
When I think "geek lawyers" I think of in-house, or working for venture capitalists, or the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Software Freedom Law Center, Software in the Public Interest, and similar firms, but I'm guessing all of them would want you to be licensed to practice.
posted by brainwane at 6:15 AM on February 12, 2010
When I think "geek lawyers" I think of in-house, or working for venture capitalists, or the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Software Freedom Law Center, Software in the Public Interest, and similar firms, but I'm guessing all of them would want you to be licensed to practice.
posted by brainwane at 6:15 AM on February 12, 2010
It was not uncommon for people at my old fancy firm in SV to go into business development at young-ish startups. I think one of the main reasons this worked, though, is that those people were very well-versed in the process of raising VC money and doing M&A deals (i.e., they were former corporate lawyers). I've also seen a number of people become COOs at companies.
Are you an IP lit, patent prosecution, or IP transactional lawyer? Just as an anecdotal data point, I have often observed IP transactional lawyers who don't go inhouse become entrepreneurs.
posted by odin53 at 8:29 AM on February 12, 2010
Are you an IP lit, patent prosecution, or IP transactional lawyer? Just as an anecdotal data point, I have often observed IP transactional lawyers who don't go inhouse become entrepreneurs.
posted by odin53 at 8:29 AM on February 12, 2010
I think the SFLC and SPI are incorporated in MA, but probably working for them as a former IP lawyer would be basically penance.
posted by pwnguin at 8:29 AM on February 12, 2010
posted by pwnguin at 8:29 AM on February 12, 2010
Response by poster: Hi! Thanks for the replies.
The CA bar exam isn't really "harder". Statistically a lower percentage pass but there are pretty good reasons for this. Also, it's more egregiously lame for a practicing attorney than a newly born law grad. because you have to write about all this irrelevant crap one never would write about in real life (e.g., if you see a "secret trust" you have to also write about a "semi-secret trust" and then dismiss the idea .... just to show you know).
I am and have been licensed to practice in MA for a while. Getting licensed to practice in CA is a different issue, and one that doesn't involve any real-life lawyer ability. It's just annoying and something I'm not sure I care about enough to do.
posted by pelham at 8:39 AM on February 12, 2010
The CA bar exam isn't really "harder". Statistically a lower percentage pass but there are pretty good reasons for this. Also, it's more egregiously lame for a practicing attorney than a newly born law grad. because you have to write about all this irrelevant crap one never would write about in real life (e.g., if you see a "secret trust" you have to also write about a "semi-secret trust" and then dismiss the idea .... just to show you know).
I am and have been licensed to practice in MA for a while. Getting licensed to practice in CA is a different issue, and one that doesn't involve any real-life lawyer ability. It's just annoying and something I'm not sure I care about enough to do.
posted by pelham at 8:39 AM on February 12, 2010
In California, as in most states, you can be admitted as in-house counsel without taking the California bar exam, so long as you're a member in good standing of the Massachusetts bar (which I assume you are). You'll be limited to transactional work on behalf of the company, though, and can't appear in court.
If you're a patent attorney you can do patent prosecution without passing the bar, but your representation would be strictly limited to representing clients before the USPTO. See Sperry v. Florida, 373 U.S. 379 (1963) for details.
posted by jedicus at 10:36 AM on February 12, 2010
If you're a patent attorney you can do patent prosecution without passing the bar, but your representation would be strictly limited to representing clients before the USPTO. See Sperry v. Florida, 373 U.S. 379 (1963) for details.
posted by jedicus at 10:36 AM on February 12, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by delmoi at 1:57 AM on February 12, 2010