Understanding crazy girls...possible?
February 10, 2010 4:06 AM Subscribe
I'm heading overseas in 6 months, on-again/off-again girl is heading overseas next week for 8 months. She wants to catch up at a festival in a foreign country....good idea/bad idea? (complications inside)
Full disclosure: I've had amazing luck with relatively sane, intelligent, straightforward and strong women in my life, which may have skewed my view on women in general. However, this recent recipe is missing any semblance of straightforwardness.
Me: 25 or so, pretty easy going, no real hangups, solid drinker, occasional drug user.
Her: 28, broke up with a long term partner 2 years previous, still lives in the house they own together, regular pot smoker.
Back story:
We hadn't spoken much to each other in the workplace and weren't friends at all. We met for the first time at a co-workers place, where she discovered that I wasn't gay. I disgraced myself there (vomiting everywhere after a big night out the night before and a bottle of vodka that night).
A few weeks later she invites me to a get together at her place with some co-workers, in May last year.
Soon enough we're alone and she and I drunkenly hook up. I didn't see it coming (I thought she was a lesbian).
She invites me to stay the night, and doesn't kick me out in the morning. I thought it might have been a one off thing, but as I go to leave, she stops me and kisses me.
Back at work things are OK for a few days and we catch up again a few times, then one morning she unleashes on me in a long e-mail about how she can't be in a relationship right now, about all her confidence issues etc etc. I was understanding and offered to catch up with her about it. So we catch up and she says she needs to 'just be friends' because she doesn't feel like herself and has self-esteem issues and whatever else. She's seeing a therapist to get her 'abandonment' issues sorted out.
She says she thinks we're perfect together, but that she can't do it right now. I say there's all the time in the world for her to sort her shit out, but that I wasn't going to get involved in the process.
I tell that I'm not down for being 'friends' either. I wasn't friends with her to begin with and I'm not about to be now. So I say, no contact, unless work related.
This is going alright, then a few days later she starts with e-mails:
"you feel like a complete stranger to me now...this sucks. I don't even know if I should even have sent this e-mail. Probably not, right?" she says
"Probably not" I respond
At which point, I heard, she left the building straight away, in tears.
After a few moments like this, stupidly I open the door to discussion and soon enough we're back kissing and hanging out and she's inviting me to stay the night.
Then she freaks out again and I try to be understanding, but ultimately back away. I hear from independent sources about how amazing she thinks I am and wonder if it's really just a time thing.
After long periods of me keeping distance and being distant, eventually she'll break and find some way to get in touch with me and the cycle repeats.
"I miss you" etc etc
Further complications:
I like the girl a lot. We connect in the 'finish each others sentences', same sense of humour kind of way. The sort of connection you ahve with someone where you don't even need to ask them a question, you just know what they're thinking. We enjoy similar things, can talk for hours or just sit around enjoying each other's company. We have similar aspirations, similar dreams, all that sort of thing. I keep my distance because I know that's what's healthy for me and ultimately that's the best for both of us. It's not very useful to her or myself if I'm sticking close by.
Over the past 9 months she's faced up to some of her fears, quit her job, sold her house and booked a ticket to South America 5 months ago that leaves next week. I feel that solo travel will help to alleviate some of the confidence issues and am sincerely happy for her to be going. I just get the feeling it's the right thing for her to be doing and want only the best for her.
In the interim I've been seeing other people in a non-serious way, and I assume she has too. For some reason she always comes back into my life, and every time she says hello or goodbye she kisses me like we're together, but we're not.
When we do see each other she's usually pretty down on herself, always apologetic towards me and appears to be helpless/lacking confidence. She doesn't seem to be this way with anyone else (quite the opposite, in my experience). I get the feeling that she's more open with me than others, owing to our similarities.
Questions:
I'm heading to the States in 6 months for a festival (rhymes with Yearning Can, if that makes a difference) and she tells me she wants to meet me there. When I talk about the festival she gets excited, and when I say that I am planning on going to NorCal to recuperate after the festival, she says "Oh that'll be great, we'll get a convertible and....", or more generally she'll make allusions to the future "When you get back from your trip we'll have to go and..." or saying goodbye after seeing a band together "Thanks for sharing that with me. I look forward to sharing more with you in the future"
So anyway, I'm seeing her for the final time this Friday, just her and I and a bar.
I don't have any dream of sorting things out with her before she goes, if ever, but I would like your expert opinions on why she's so back and forth with me and why she's so hell-bent on meeting me overseas.
Full disclosure: I've had amazing luck with relatively sane, intelligent, straightforward and strong women in my life, which may have skewed my view on women in general. However, this recent recipe is missing any semblance of straightforwardness.
Me: 25 or so, pretty easy going, no real hangups, solid drinker, occasional drug user.
Her: 28, broke up with a long term partner 2 years previous, still lives in the house they own together, regular pot smoker.
Back story:
We hadn't spoken much to each other in the workplace and weren't friends at all. We met for the first time at a co-workers place, where she discovered that I wasn't gay. I disgraced myself there (vomiting everywhere after a big night out the night before and a bottle of vodka that night).
A few weeks later she invites me to a get together at her place with some co-workers, in May last year.
Soon enough we're alone and she and I drunkenly hook up. I didn't see it coming (I thought she was a lesbian).
She invites me to stay the night, and doesn't kick me out in the morning. I thought it might have been a one off thing, but as I go to leave, she stops me and kisses me.
Back at work things are OK for a few days and we catch up again a few times, then one morning she unleashes on me in a long e-mail about how she can't be in a relationship right now, about all her confidence issues etc etc. I was understanding and offered to catch up with her about it. So we catch up and she says she needs to 'just be friends' because she doesn't feel like herself and has self-esteem issues and whatever else. She's seeing a therapist to get her 'abandonment' issues sorted out.
She says she thinks we're perfect together, but that she can't do it right now. I say there's all the time in the world for her to sort her shit out, but that I wasn't going to get involved in the process.
I tell that I'm not down for being 'friends' either. I wasn't friends with her to begin with and I'm not about to be now. So I say, no contact, unless work related.
This is going alright, then a few days later she starts with e-mails:
"you feel like a complete stranger to me now...this sucks. I don't even know if I should even have sent this e-mail. Probably not, right?" she says
"Probably not" I respond
At which point, I heard, she left the building straight away, in tears.
After a few moments like this, stupidly I open the door to discussion and soon enough we're back kissing and hanging out and she's inviting me to stay the night.
Then she freaks out again and I try to be understanding, but ultimately back away. I hear from independent sources about how amazing she thinks I am and wonder if it's really just a time thing.
After long periods of me keeping distance and being distant, eventually she'll break and find some way to get in touch with me and the cycle repeats.
"I miss you" etc etc
Further complications:
I like the girl a lot. We connect in the 'finish each others sentences', same sense of humour kind of way. The sort of connection you ahve with someone where you don't even need to ask them a question, you just know what they're thinking. We enjoy similar things, can talk for hours or just sit around enjoying each other's company. We have similar aspirations, similar dreams, all that sort of thing. I keep my distance because I know that's what's healthy for me and ultimately that's the best for both of us. It's not very useful to her or myself if I'm sticking close by.
Over the past 9 months she's faced up to some of her fears, quit her job, sold her house and booked a ticket to South America 5 months ago that leaves next week. I feel that solo travel will help to alleviate some of the confidence issues and am sincerely happy for her to be going. I just get the feeling it's the right thing for her to be doing and want only the best for her.
In the interim I've been seeing other people in a non-serious way, and I assume she has too. For some reason she always comes back into my life, and every time she says hello or goodbye she kisses me like we're together, but we're not.
When we do see each other she's usually pretty down on herself, always apologetic towards me and appears to be helpless/lacking confidence. She doesn't seem to be this way with anyone else (quite the opposite, in my experience). I get the feeling that she's more open with me than others, owing to our similarities.
Questions:
I'm heading to the States in 6 months for a festival (rhymes with Yearning Can, if that makes a difference) and she tells me she wants to meet me there. When I talk about the festival she gets excited, and when I say that I am planning on going to NorCal to recuperate after the festival, she says "Oh that'll be great, we'll get a convertible and....", or more generally she'll make allusions to the future "When you get back from your trip we'll have to go and..." or saying goodbye after seeing a band together "Thanks for sharing that with me. I look forward to sharing more with you in the future"
So anyway, I'm seeing her for the final time this Friday, just her and I and a bar.
I don't have any dream of sorting things out with her before she goes, if ever, but I would like your expert opinions on why she's so back and forth with me and why she's so hell-bent on meeting me overseas.
- Why does she keep coming back if she knows she can't give me what I want, right now?
- Is it just an attention thing?
- Does she legitimately hold feelings for me but perhaps doesn't feel worthy?
- Is she trying to 'keep the door open' with me?
- Is there something obvious I'm missing?
- Is this really just a timing thing, or am I being naïve?
- If there's no feeling there, why is she so insistent on being part of my life?
- Is meeting her overseas a good idea? If so, do we decide what we're doing now, or just play it by ear? (anything can happen in 6 months)
- Should I use this as an opportunity to sever ties? (at the very least, I'm going to request that I don't want to hear from her until I see her next) I'm thinking this probably isn't all that complicated. So set me straight, MeFi!
Response by poster: Thanks! I think I'll need it.
Yeah it is frustrating for me, but that's been fine up until now, because now it bores me a bit.
It's time to set this ship sailing into the night methinks.
posted by frggr at 4:31 AM on February 10, 2010
Yeah it is frustrating for me, but that's been fine up until now, because now it bores me a bit.
It's time to set this ship sailing into the night methinks.
posted by frggr at 4:31 AM on February 10, 2010
You need to man up and stop making out/sleeping with her when it's obviously disturbing to both of you. She sounds pretty hopelessly crush-y, you sound willing to break her heart over and over, both of you seem to be feeding the drama (specifically being blunt about "we weren't friends" instead of finding a more graceful way to sever ties--also why do you seem to want an ltr with someone who you aren't/can't be friends with?). Anyway, end it for real this time instead of letting yourself be talked around, and read some Savage Love on "how'd that happen?"
posted by anaelith at 4:51 AM on February 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by anaelith at 4:51 AM on February 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
Feel those warning signals your getting? Not everyone does. You clearly hear them, and you're looking to ignore them because you're attracted to her.
posted by filmgeek at 5:19 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by filmgeek at 5:19 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why does she keep coming back if she knows she can't give me what I want, right now?
Because she wants to date you. As for the inconsistent behavior, maybe she wants you to chase after her. Maybe she's really just as batshit insane (which would be my guess) as she sounds. Maybe she knows, rationally, that the relationship wouldn't be healthy for her but can't resist.
You need to resist and say "no thanks." Even if the timing were right for dating, this is what your relationship is going to look like all the time if you were every together. This will not be a sane, intelligent, or straightforward relationship. Be the bad guy here (for a moment--it would be far worse if you keep stringing her along) and cut it off completely. Because I really, really don't think that meeting up at a place with lots of drugs and hook-ups is a great idea. It's bound to just be completely drama-filled.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:24 AM on February 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
Because she wants to date you. As for the inconsistent behavior, maybe she wants you to chase after her. Maybe she's really just as batshit insane (which would be my guess) as she sounds. Maybe she knows, rationally, that the relationship wouldn't be healthy for her but can't resist.
You need to resist and say "no thanks." Even if the timing were right for dating, this is what your relationship is going to look like all the time if you were every together. This will not be a sane, intelligent, or straightforward relationship. Be the bad guy here (for a moment--it would be far worse if you keep stringing her along) and cut it off completely. Because I really, really don't think that meeting up at a place with lots of drugs and hook-ups is a great idea. It's bound to just be completely drama-filled.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:24 AM on February 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've had amazing luck with relatively sane, intelligent, straightforward and strong women in my life, which may have skewed my view on women in general.
Just thought I'd repeat this sentence back at you. You consider you had amazing luck, which makes me think you value these qualities in women. My opinion is that your view is not skewed, and that you can have such things again. I also think that this woman is guaranteed not to provide them.
With that in mind, do you want to prolong this?
posted by altolinguistic at 5:33 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Just thought I'd repeat this sentence back at you. You consider you had amazing luck, which makes me think you value these qualities in women. My opinion is that your view is not skewed, and that you can have such things again. I also think that this woman is guaranteed not to provide them.
With that in mind, do you want to prolong this?
posted by altolinguistic at 5:33 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Why does she keep coming back if she knows she can't give me what I want, right now? You say this, but it seems the more burning question is if you know what you want. It sounds to me like you're being very relaxed, 'oh, we'll see where this goes' about this. Are there some underlying desires here? Do you want a normal relationship with a fun, non-crazy girl? Or do you specifically want to be dating her?
Likewise, does she realise that you two aren't dating? (And I'm guessing you haven't told her that you've been seeing other people - how do you think she'd respond to that?) It seems to me that you might have had some (or possibly many) 'I reeeeally like you, but I really can't date you' conversations and yet she seems to be acting like you are a couple (especially the whole bit about inviting herself into your plans).
Just as a heads-up, I've known several...er....crazy girls who have done the whole de facto dating thing. They knew they weren't 'officially' dating, but somehow they seemed to think that they really were dating, you know, on a different level and all the usual boyfriend rules applied to their lovers. Every one of those instances ended in major drama when the girls realised their lovers were seeing other people.
And finally, the timing question - a rational, non-crazy girl when she find someone amazing at the wrong time thinks that it's a shame and possibly cultivates a non-sexual friendship with the amazing person. She doesn't torture herself with lots of emotional nakedness with said person. And she sure as hell doesn't kiss him goodbye as if she's in a relationship. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but my dramadramadrama indicators are flashing like a mega mall Christmas tree.
posted by brambory at 6:34 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Likewise, does she realise that you two aren't dating? (And I'm guessing you haven't told her that you've been seeing other people - how do you think she'd respond to that?) It seems to me that you might have had some (or possibly many) 'I reeeeally like you, but I really can't date you' conversations and yet she seems to be acting like you are a couple (especially the whole bit about inviting herself into your plans).
Just as a heads-up, I've known several...er....crazy girls who have done the whole de facto dating thing. They knew they weren't 'officially' dating, but somehow they seemed to think that they really were dating, you know, on a different level and all the usual boyfriend rules applied to their lovers. Every one of those instances ended in major drama when the girls realised their lovers were seeing other people.
And finally, the timing question - a rational, non-crazy girl when she find someone amazing at the wrong time thinks that it's a shame and possibly cultivates a non-sexual friendship with the amazing person. She doesn't torture herself with lots of emotional nakedness with said person. And she sure as hell doesn't kiss him goodbye as if she's in a relationship. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but my dramadramadrama indicators are flashing like a mega mall Christmas tree.
posted by brambory at 6:34 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
I tell that I'm not down for being 'friends' either. I wasn't friends with her to begin with and I'm not about to be now. So I say, no contact, unless work related.
This is going alright, then a few days later she starts with e-mails:
"you feel like a complete stranger to me now...this sucks. I don't even know if I should even have sent this e-mail. Probably not, right?" she says
"Probably not" I respond
At which point, I heard, she left the building straight away, in tears.
Yes, she sounds excessive and maybe even a little obsessive, but man, do you sound like a jackass.
posted by lydhre at 6:40 AM on February 10, 2010 [23 favorites]
This is going alright, then a few days later she starts with e-mails:
"you feel like a complete stranger to me now...this sucks. I don't even know if I should even have sent this e-mail. Probably not, right?" she says
"Probably not" I respond
At which point, I heard, she left the building straight away, in tears.
Yes, she sounds excessive and maybe even a little obsessive, but man, do you sound like a jackass.
posted by lydhre at 6:40 AM on February 10, 2010 [23 favorites]
You've asked a lot of questions but you haven't asked yourself the most important one: why do you keep engaging with this woman?
posted by witchstone at 7:13 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by witchstone at 7:13 AM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
There are 6 billion people on the planet, find someone that's less problematic.
posted by wkearney99 at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by wkearney99 at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
then one morning she unleashes on me in a long e-mail about how she can't be in a relationship right now.
You seriously do not have to do this crap. These amazingly charismatic fucked-up people who do this shit are the landmines of the dating world. Don't step on one.
Here's an insight from my past--women like this were siren songs to me--alluring bundles of bipolar narcissim which some crazy part of me thought taming would short-cut the process of dealing with the anger and pain coming from my childhood of being raised by a bipolar narcissitic parent.
Turns out you can't do that.
Its all based on a central illusion our mind creates for us: "She must really love me if she acts that crazy about me." So you fall into the game of trying to measure the love they are not giving you by how upset and crazy they act. For me at least, that's a sign of a kid looking to interpret a parent's abusive behavior as love. That's the whole reason for the laundry list of questions about what she is thinking. If you could just understand, then you could feel that love she's not giving you. Nope.
This is probably a pattern for you because your "disclosure" that you usually are seeing really good women is a huge red flag. Its a sign of your mind trying to convince you that its true.
In other words, DTMFA. Get therapy too, if the things above ring any bells with you.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:07 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
You seriously do not have to do this crap. These amazingly charismatic fucked-up people who do this shit are the landmines of the dating world. Don't step on one.
Here's an insight from my past--women like this were siren songs to me--alluring bundles of bipolar narcissim which some crazy part of me thought taming would short-cut the process of dealing with the anger and pain coming from my childhood of being raised by a bipolar narcissitic parent.
Turns out you can't do that.
Its all based on a central illusion our mind creates for us: "She must really love me if she acts that crazy about me." So you fall into the game of trying to measure the love they are not giving you by how upset and crazy they act. For me at least, that's a sign of a kid looking to interpret a parent's abusive behavior as love. That's the whole reason for the laundry list of questions about what she is thinking. If you could just understand, then you could feel that love she's not giving you. Nope.
This is probably a pattern for you because your "disclosure" that you usually are seeing really good women is a huge red flag. Its a sign of your mind trying to convince you that its true.
In other words, DTMFA. Get therapy too, if the things above ring any bells with you.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:07 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'll not comment on the whole relationship but this doesn't sound like a good plan for Burning Man. Burning Man is notoriously difficult for tenuous relationships given all the distractions, temptations, hedonism, and loss of reality. Although it's nice to have a built-in buddy to wander around with (would you camp together?) if you don't know anybody else, it's just so hard to make plans, especially with people who have expectations.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:09 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:09 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, the odds that you make these plans and she's with some other guy at Burning Man when you get there are astronomical. This is the way it is with people like this.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:11 AM on February 10, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 8:11 AM on February 10, 2010
This "crazy girl" meme needs to end yesterday - as if women are divided into two distinct groups, the rationals and the crazies. (And if it's behavior you don't like or don't understand? She's crazy, man. You know how chicks like that are, amirite?) I have the feeling that if a female OP had posted something just as belittling and insulting about a guy, many of the male posters here would be up in arms.
OP, if this is someone you don't want contact with, don't be in contact with them. It's as simple as that. Stop wasting your time analyzing what you think her issues or motives might be. Don't reply to personal emails. Just stop feeding off the drama.
posted by Salieri at 8:24 AM on February 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
OP, if this is someone you don't want contact with, don't be in contact with them. It's as simple as that. Stop wasting your time analyzing what you think her issues or motives might be. Don't reply to personal emails. Just stop feeding off the drama.
posted by Salieri at 8:24 AM on February 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
Dude, you can't fix crazy. Stay far away from this one.
posted by reenum at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by reenum at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've not read some of the responses but as a burner I'll say this: whatever craziness going on between you guys has the potential to be magnified a thousand fold on the playa.
It's hard enough to make time to meet up with people you actually know up there; time passes very differently. There are a gajillion hot men and women wandering around - find one that's not a headcase and have a fantastic time. Hopefully, she'll be doing the same.
If this is your first (and maybe only) trip to Bman, spend it opening yourself up the wonderful experience - and not expending energy on some toxic non-relationship.
if you have other Bman questions, though, feel free to mail me via my profile.
posted by poissonrouge at 10:16 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's hard enough to make time to meet up with people you actually know up there; time passes very differently. There are a gajillion hot men and women wandering around - find one that's not a headcase and have a fantastic time. Hopefully, she'll be doing the same.
If this is your first (and maybe only) trip to Bman, spend it opening yourself up the wonderful experience - and not expending energy on some toxic non-relationship.
if you have other Bman questions, though, feel free to mail me via my profile.
posted by poissonrouge at 10:16 AM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I agree - as a burner, don't bring your drama to the playa. I've done it, and it's awful. You just... feel stuff more, because it's such an extreme environment. The drama with this girl could so easily ruin the burn for you.
posted by dithmer at 1:54 PM on February 10, 2010
posted by dithmer at 1:54 PM on February 10, 2010
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"you feel like a complete stranger to me now...this sucks. I don't even know if I should even have sent this e-mail. Probably not, right?" she says
This was after a hookup and a couple of catchup conversations? Yikes.
I don't have any dream of sorting things out with her before she goes, if ever, but I would like your expert opinions on why she's so back and forth with me and why she's so hell-bent on meeting me overseas.
She sounds rather unstable. I've known a lot of unstable people and they tend to make big plans which end up blowing up in their face or not coming to fruition. It's an avoidance thing and it's part of the lack of stability; you can't really find solid ground if you're jumping from rock to rock to rock. The jumping of rocks makes you feel like you're doing something.
My advice is this; if you like this back-and-forth thing and the girl involved, keep it up. If it's as frustrating as your question makes it sound, ditch it. There's not going to be a stable relationship here because time and distance don't help to fix a rocky relationship. Good luck!
posted by Hiker at 4:26 AM on February 10, 2010