Posession is 9/10 of the bed
February 8, 2010 10:38 PM   Subscribe

YANML: Who owns this bed that's been in my house for 2.5 years?

Long-ass story. I am the leaseholder on an apartment, in New York, and Housemates A, B, C, and D have all lived in the same room at different times, never simultaneously.

In Sept. 2007, Housemate A buys a bed and moves it into his room in the. After one year (Sept 08), Housemate A moves back to Ohio to live with his girlfriend, and Housemate B moves in. Housemates A and B make a verbal agreement that Housemate B can use the bed, but if and when Housemate A returns to New York, Housemate B will relinquish the bed.

However, in Feb 09, Housemate B also moves back to Ohio to live with her girlfriend. No mention is made of the bed's fate during the move-out process, it is simply left in the room when Housemate B leaves. Its trusteeship is unclear. From February - May '09, Housemates A and B live in the same town in Ohio and are co-workers and friends. They have ample opportunity to discuss the fate of the bed, but if they do, I hear nothing of it.

In March of 09, Housemate C moves into the empty room, and seeing that there's already a bed, decides to use it, rather than lug his own bed around. I see no problem with this arrangement and allow it, though I do not make any attempt to contact Housemates A or B about the situation.

That July, Housemate C moves out and Housemate D moves in, and is still here, still sleeping on the same bed. In December, Housemate A returns to New York, and is staying with his parents until he's able to find a job and an apartment. Housemate A states that when he finds an apartment, he expects the bed will be returned to him by Housemate D, as per his agreement with Housemate B.

Housemate D and I both think this is preposterous, but want to make sure we're in the right before getting all pissy at Housemate A, who is our dear friend when he isn't being a total moron. As the lease-holder on the apartment and its only constant occupant, I think the bed was abandoned, and ownership reverts to me, or to the landlord, but either way it has become a de facto feature of that bedroom, and is under the control of whoever lives in that room.

Am I wrong?
posted by Jon_Evil to Law & Government (49 answers total)
 
Best answer: Yes.
posted by jabberjaw at 10:40 PM on February 8, 2010 [5 favorites]


Best answer: agree with jabberjaw -- it seems pretty clear that it's Housemate A's bed, although it also seems pretty clear that the logistics of retrieving and moving said bed are entirely on Housemate A.
posted by brainmouse at 10:44 PM on February 8, 2010 [1 favorite]


The deal was that when Housemate A returns, the bed will be his to reclaim. I think the specifics of who is using the bed at the time that Housemate A returns aren't really that vital to the agreement.
posted by needs more cowbell at 10:47 PM on February 8, 2010


The bed wasn't abandoned - A thought they had a friend watching it rather than abandoning it to random strangers.
posted by codswallop at 10:49 PM on February 8, 2010 [3 favorites]


Best answer: Go with the original deal but tell him to come take the bed off your hands now as your apartment is no longer his convenient storage unit. The fact that he's living with his parents isn't your problem.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:49 PM on February 8, 2010 [11 favorites]


The bed still belongs to A. He left it with the agreement that he was going to reclaim it upon his return to NY. Granted, he took a long freaking time to do it, which is kind of a jerk move, but that does not make it your bed. I realize he didn't make the agreement with you specifically, but you knew about the agreement, which will make you a huge jerk if you don't return the bed. (Are you planning on telling A: "B said she'd give you the bed back -- I, however, did not.") It's not like the previous tenant left the bed and then showed up to say he wants it back. It's your "dear friend." You're supposed to cut dear friends some slack. Like giving them their property back.
posted by puritycontrol at 10:53 PM on February 8, 2010 [3 favorites]


A owns the bed. Duh.

You could have called him and told him that B left, and tried to find out what to do about the bed, perhaps getting him to agree to give it to you, since it isn't really fair that he would just leave the bed there to be stored.

But you didn't.
posted by delmoi at 11:03 PM on February 8, 2010


It seems really, really unlikely that this is likely to go to court.

So, let's set the legal issue aside for the moment.

Prior to this point, clearly, the bedroom was not furnished. It was not previously your intent to offer a furnished bedroom. And it's a total normal and adult thing to do to purchase one's own bedroom furniture. It's expensive, but grown-ups learn to live with that fact.

If Housemate D chose to live with you entirely because you were offering a furnished bedroom, that's *your* fault for representing this as something it wasn't, which is to say property of questionable ownership. I'm guessing, however, that Housemate D lives with you for reasons totally unrelated to this particular piece of furniture, if you're all still friends.

And in that case? Don't be an asshole. Housemate D can go pick up a mattress and box spring and bedframe cheap. You *know* Housemate A--who you call your friend--is the one who paid for it. You know people other than Housemate A have been getting the benefit of it this whole time, so it's not like you were just serving as a storage facility for it. Why on earth would you choose to ruin a friendship over a single piece of furniture?
posted by larkspur at 11:12 PM on February 8, 2010 [1 favorite]


nth 'A' owns the bed.
posted by pompomtom at 11:14 PM on February 8, 2010


Personally, I think you're marginally in the right here - honestly, if you leave your furniture with roommates in a rental several states away, you're taking your chances. But it doesn't really seem worth wrecking a friendship over, so I'd just give him back the bed.

Incidentally, it seems like B is the one who really messed up, since he had the agreement with A, but again, it doesn't seem worth wrecking a friendship over.
posted by lunasol at 11:31 PM on February 8, 2010 [3 favorites]


Technically, the bed belongs to A.
But technically, since the agreement was specifically between A and B, when B left it was abandoned
—or at best, since B left, A has been "unaskingly" storing it at your place for free.

Tell D that he probably needs to look at getting a new mattress
(get an idea of if that's going to take him a few days or a couple of weeks so he's not left bed-less in the interim)

Then call A and tell him that if he wants his bed, he's got to pick it up by [a week or so after D will have new bed]—that you're tired of storing it for free.

If he can't (doesn't-want-to) pick it up then, tell him that you're going to charge $X a month to store it (a little less than whatever the smallest nearby storage unit costs)*. Surely his parents have a garage or a basement he can (but just doesn't want to) store it in.

*This is more about just getting rid of this damned Schrödinger's Mattress once and for all.
posted by blueberry at 11:36 PM on February 8, 2010


It's definitely A's bed. On the other hand you are under no obligation to store the thing for him. Tell him he's got 2 weeks to pick up the bed or it's now yours (okay, tell him you're throwing it out).
posted by Justinian at 11:49 PM on February 8, 2010 [1 favorite]


Give your dear friend back his bed.
posted by thejoshu at 12:33 AM on February 9, 2010


Best answer: Its A's bed and if it isn't out of my apartment in "arbitrary time limit", then I am going to donate it to charity. D being bedless, could be a charity case.

Not that D has room for a new bed in his room, because someone else's is already there.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 1:52 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


I agree with PurityControl, above.

If he's your "dear friend," treat him accordingly and give him his bed back!
posted by SociologistTina at 2:07 AM on February 9, 2010


Oh, and I think you could give him at least a month to find a place to live.

Maybe the lesson is for you to have called him as soon as you become unsure as to who was responsible for the bed. I don't think that's too much to ask from a friend.
posted by SociologistTina at 2:10 AM on February 9, 2010


ok, this is why bedbugs are becoming epidemic again.
posted by sexyrobot at 2:16 AM on February 9, 2010 [8 favorites]


Am I wrong?

Yes. Or maybe you're just evil and this is your nature : )

A bought the bed, it's his property. He's a friend - give him his stuff back.
posted by dmt at 2:19 AM on February 9, 2010


It is A's bed. Call A up and let A know that the bed needs to be moved because it's taking up space in the bedroom you rent out where the new tenant would like their bed to be. That way A understands that B has been a dick leaving the bed there unclaimed.
posted by dabitch at 4:03 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Oh, and I think you could give him at least a month to find a place to live.

Jeeze, you do realize how much room a bed takes up, right? Tell D to get a new bed. Tell A to come pick his up within a few days of that or its going in the trash.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:08 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm amazed A still wants the bed after strangers C and D have been sleeping on it. It's also a drag lugging beds around NYC, let alone storing one. Can't you help A and D reach a deal where D gets to keep the bed but gives A some cash to offset the cost of a new bed?
posted by carmicha at 5:47 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Wait a sec...housemate A leaves a bet in Sept 08 and expects it to be there when he comes back in 2010? That's between him and B. Or between him and you as previously negotiated. But it sounds like it was between him and B, not him and you.

People who hold leases are not running storage companies. If you leave something without being clear about who owns it or what the situation is, I think you forfeit that thing.

The moron who moved out of this place left a lot of stuff without telling us what to do with it. I call that stuff "mine". He also stole some money from my roommate which makes it a little easier.

I see the bed as poorly planned for by A, abandoned by B and now owned by you or D.
posted by sully75 at 5:57 AM on February 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


Well, I think in New York abandoned property is presumed lost and the law for lost property is not finders keepers - one cannot simply assume ownership of lost property. Now, if one can prove the property was abandoned one might be permitted to assume ownership, but the general rule seems to be that one must tender lost property to the police. Failing to tender to the police can be a misdemeanor. I think I studied this rule for all of 5 minutes for the bar exam, and I'm not intending to use it as legal advice just as a data point or for humor value, since I don't think you, A, B, C, D and so forth ever intended that this bed would be treated like lost property. I'm just saying, the legal route is fraught with pain in the ass. As it so often is.

I personally think it is very unreasonable of A to expect that all these years later, after receiving the benefit of a free storage facility from those he did not make any agreement with, that his bed will be returned. He had an agreement with B - he should have made one with C, or with you, or with D. He didn't bother. I think that not bothering is a little like abandoning the bed. I see your point.

You don't say whether D ditched his bed. He chose not to lug it around - can he still get it? Or did he throw it away and would have to buy a new bed? I think those answers weigh against how you should react to A. If no money is lost, give in - but know for future that your friend A is unreasonable and not willing to take responsibility for his own actions, his own stuff. He sounds like not-a-great-guy. If money was lost, I might suggest a splitting the difference type approach.
posted by bunnycup at 6:14 AM on February 9, 2010


Also, in regards to the free storage facility argument, it's not like it took up space that you were otherwise going to use, and it's not like you were tasked with throwing out / selling / whatevering the bed. You had a parade of roommates who happily used it all these years, gratis. Time value of money, and all that. And imagine the marks/gouges in your floor and wall prevented by not having to move a bed in and out each time! Nobody has been put out by this arrangement. But it is time for it to come to an end.
posted by thejoshu at 6:32 AM on February 9, 2010


It's your friend's bed. He left it in your place for a couple years because he had no use for it, and you had a bedroom for it with no other bed demanding space, and it seems like 3 other people did have a use for said bed during that time.

When he wants it back, let him come and take it. Don't give him ultimatums or charge him for storing it. That's a prick's act. Did it actually cost you anything to "store" it?

Ask Housemate A if he'll just do Housemate D the courtesy of giving a couple of weeks notice of when A is coming to collect the bed, so D has time to arrange some other slumber arrangement.

Like somebody else said, it's nothing worth losing a friendship over.
posted by Diag at 6:36 AM on February 9, 2010


Ok I'll give in, but only because he's your friend. If these were random roommates, I seriously would have no problem keeping the bed. I think A sounds like a dope. If you didn't have an agreement with him about the bed, I would consider it abandoned. But it sort of falls to you to be the nice guy here.
posted by sully75 at 6:49 AM on February 9, 2010


Response by poster: An addendum that may paint a clearer picture, and may have the added feature of painting me like less of an asshole:

When A moved out, he left a whole lot of other crap all over the house, most of it trash or... soiled (broken furniture, sex toys, a moldy sleeping bag, all his and his girlfriend's toiletries, drug paraphernalia, an uncountable number of used condoms all over the room) that we had to deal with. I love this kid, but he's not exactly the most responsible guy on the block. Housemate A in fact got the bed at a huge discount from a person whose room he previously sublet, because he was such a dirty hippie that the previous owner didn't want the bed anymore.

Housemates A and B have both been back to the apartment to visit on several occasions, and I have been out to visit them, and generally we all had a grand time and nobody ever thought to mention the bed.

This is all coming to a head because Housemate A has found a new apartment, and wants the bed delivered there by Sunday.
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:50 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


This is all coming to a head because Housemate A has found a new apartment, and wants the bed delivered there by Sunday.

Delivered?!

Seriously, the dude can get the bed moved himself. Okay, give it back to him--but don't go renting a moving van or anything on his behalf. That's totally his responsibility.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:59 AM on February 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


It's his bed, but you have absolutely no responsibility to bring it to him. If he wants it, let him make arrangements to get it out of the apartment.
posted by electroboy at 7:04 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Also, the agreement was between A and B. If he wants it delivered, have him call B.

I'm trying to shoehorn in a "This is an A and B agreement so C your way out of it" joke, but I can't quite get it to work.
posted by electroboy at 7:08 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I think what's gonna happen is that I'm gonna charge A a storage fee, which will go toward a new bed, to be purchased by D.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:34 AM on February 9, 2010


Dude, it's not your bed. It was never anybody's bed but A's. He doesn't owe anybody anything for the bed. You didn't have any pre-arrangement for a storage fee. It doesn't matter if he had problems and left trash. It's his bed. He can come get it if he wants it. You can tell him he has to come get it or you'll throw it out. But you can't keep it and can't charge him for it. D is responsible for getting d'self a bed just like everyone else. You're struggling for excuses here. Just give up the bed.
posted by Askr at 7:48 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


I think what's gonna happen is that I'm gonna charge A a storage fee,

Man, you're determined to be a jerk about this, aren't you?

It's not like the bed has been in your way in the intervening time: B, and then C, and then D have all gotten value out of having the bed around. Randomly demanding cash from A at this point is really a dick move. It's A's bed. Give it back to him already.

(He should handle his own delivery, though; you have no responsibility for that.)
posted by ook at 8:00 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I think what's gonna happen is that I'm gonna charge A a storage fee

Don't be a prick. Give the guy his bed back. I agree that A was a bad roommate and left you with a big mess and a large piece of furniture that could've been a pain to get rid of, but at least two roommates have gotten use out of it, so it's not an issue.

That said, if A is all "My bed is all messed up now, you owe me money!" tell him to pound sand.
posted by electroboy at 8:01 AM on February 9, 2010


Seconding Askr.

Seems unfair to charge A a storage fee at this point in time if you have never previously mentioned a storage fee to him. If you had contacted A and/or B about the bed and the issue of storing/moving/discarding it when C moved in, that would be another matter. Also, the bed hasn't exactly been in 'storage'... it's been in use. By C, and D.
A's messiness etc is an entirely separate issue from this issue of who owns the bed and who (if anyone) owes who money. If A's post-moveout trash bothered you so much, you should have contacted him to discuss a cleanup fee.

A can move the bed himself. But I don't think you should charge him a storage fee - seems like you'd be asking A to pay for C and D sleeping on A's bed. If you're all friends, A is not treating you very nicely by asking you to deliver the bed, and you are not treating A very nicely by asking him for a 'storage' fee.
posted by aielen at 8:03 AM on February 9, 2010


Not quite fair to say he's been getting storing value all this time, given that the bed has been in use. Could as easily be seen as Housemates C and D getting rental value for the bed all this time -- and you having had an easier time finding housemates, since the room was partially furnished.

Anyway, these are just ways for you to think about it so you're not irritated at your friend.
posted by palliser at 8:20 AM on February 9, 2010


The craziness seems to be coming from all sides here.

He left it behind 2 years ago and wants it back after it's gone through several users? that's a little bit crazy.

He wants you to to DELIVER it to him? That's a whole lot of crazy.

You think the bed should belong to you now? That's a little bit crazy.

You think you should charge him a STORAGE FEE that wasn't agreed to beforehand? That's a whole lot of crazy.
posted by the bricabrac man at 8:46 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Whenever I've had roommates move out, I always tell them "if you leave your stuff, I'll keep it here for 30 days for you to pickup, after that it's getting thrown out or given away".
posted by blue_beetle at 8:48 AM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Tell him to come get it, tell him when you're putting it on the curb for pickup... YOU had no agreement with him, you have no responsibility for this mess.
posted by HuronBob at 9:19 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I think the fact that he left the room a mess is relevant. You leave trash, you leave a bed, you don't clean up after yourself, you don't make arrangements for what happens when B moves out, no more bed for you.

You know, all the guy had to do was say when B moved out, "hey do you mind hanging on to the bed for a while, I would like to get it back but being in Ohio, I can't do that". Bang, done. But he didn't do that, he just expected that it would be there when he got back.

I would not be into that.
posted by sully75 at 9:51 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: The thing is that if C AND D hadn't said "hey, why don't I use this bed that was left here rather than schlep mine all the way over," the bed would've been out on the curb when C moved in. I never advertised that the room came with a bed.

Would it have been any different if I had carried the bed down to the curb, and C, walking along his sidewalk, had said "oh, look, a bed!" and carried it back up?
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:05 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: (as it was never clear until late August of 09 whether Housemate A was ever moving back to NY in the first place)
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:09 AM on February 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Jon_Evil, the question then would be whether you had a right to get rid of the bed in the first place or whether A could now seek reimbursement for the bed. In my humble opinion, you would have had a right to discard the bed that was left in your apartment with no prior arrangements with you. I do not see any reasonable way in which arrangements A made with B became binding on you without your consent. Thus, in my opinion, you are ethically free to do as you please with the bed, but you might consider editing your actions consistent with whether you hope for a continued friendship with A. That is, in my opinion, you didn't have an obligation to hang onto and then return A's bed, but if you want to be friends with A you might do so anyway.

By no means should you be strongarmed into delivering A's bed to him. I can't imagine any universe where it would be reasonable to think you are obligated to do that. Frankly, I bet A would rather buy a new bed than go to the trouble of arranging the time and effort to pick up his own. He sounds like a lazy deadbeat.
posted by bunnycup at 10:11 AM on February 9, 2010


Best answer: Would it have been any different if I had carried the bed down to the curb, and C, walking along his sidewalk, had said "oh, look, a bed!" and carried it back up?

Yeah, your friend would have come back to NYC, asked for his bed back, and you guys would have gotten into an argument about this anyway.

I agree that your friend is being irresponsible. I know this is an inconvenience for you. But it's too little, too late to charge him, particularly without destroying the friendship. Tell him when he can come pick the bed up, and hold him to that. But don't charge him. That's a dick move.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:14 AM on February 9, 2010


Response by poster: OK. Here is how the situation was resolved.

Housemate D has agreed to buy the bed from Housemate A at the same substantially discounted rate that A paid for it in 2007.

Housemate A has agreed to pay me a storage fee of: 1 bottle of Jim Beam, which will be shared between Housemates A, D, and myself at the earliest opportunity (well, second-earliest, as the alcohol we will receive in exchange for helping A move into his new place is a completely different arrangement).

Thanks, Metafilter, for keeping my head clear on this.
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:30 AM on February 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


Nice resolution! Good on you for keeping your mind open to looking at the situation from your friend's perspective.
posted by bunnycup at 10:48 AM on February 9, 2010


Housemate A in fact got the bed at a huge discount from a person whose room he previously sublet, because he was such a dirty hippie that the previous owner didn't want the bed anymore.


The bed sounds vile. I'd be glad to get it out of my home.
posted by onepot at 2:26 PM on February 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


You didn't say the bed was manky.
posted by sully75 at 10:23 AM on February 10, 2010


Once again we see how the addition of alcohol will solve most problems.
posted by the bricabrac man at 6:11 AM on February 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


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