My wife and I want a vehicle that will handle rugged logging roads.

January 28, 2005 9:35 AM

SUVFilter: My wife and I want a vehicle that will handle the rugged (and worsening, now they are no longer maintained) logging roads in this province, as we head out for dayhikes and backpacking trips. We're looking at the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute, Nissan Pathfinder, and Toyota 4Runner. Zoom, zoom inside...

The Escape is a sweet little car-based SUV that has moderately good clearance, but no real 4WD off-road capability; OTOH, I've taken my Nissan NX 1600 to hell and back (and consequently shortened its life by 100k km). It would probably be okay for most of where we'd want to go, but might take a beating in the process.

The Pathfinder is a pig on gas, but otherwise seems to handle well. It will go far further offroad. They're also seemingly built like tanks: I've rarely seen a bad-looking Pathfinder.

And the 4Runner is pretty much the ultimate off-road vehicle. More trucky, though, and still a gas-pig. But we're not likely to drive more than about 10 000km on our own dime; the remainder is covered by for-work travel expenses.

I'm at a complete loss for choosing. The cost is incrementally more for the Pathfinder than the Escape, and the 4Runner than the Pathfinder. The resale value probably works the other way around. Insurance would be higher for the Escape, but gas costs would be lower.

All in all, I guess I'm just looking for personal experience reports from those of you who've owned these vehicles, and those of you who regularly go off-road (whether with those vehicles or not). Thanks in advance for any and all info!

[SUVhaters need not apply. This vehicle will be going where cars do not dare to tread.]

posted by five fresh fish to shopping (25 comments total)

Any reason you aren't looking at the XTerra?
posted by trharlan at 9:37 AM on January 28, 2005

Daimler has done a great job with the new CRD Diesel in the new Jeeps. Canadians are getting the engines before we are in the States. If you have serious off roading to do, nothing idles over tough roads than a Jeep with 400 lb.ft of torque. The new Liberty would be a pretty comfortable rig to own.

I'm not a huge fan of the Pathfinders any more, they just have so much plastic on them to rip off and break. I don't believe I would own a Ford unless it's a 250 or larger pickup.

As for the 4Runner, I liked the old ones better, but a new one with the SR5 package, an ARB bumper and a moderate lift would be a super truck to own.

That being said, and this being Canada, go find a Defender 110.
posted by tumble at 9:52 AM on January 28, 2005

I *heart* my Xterra and the newest version has excellent performance reviews.
posted by Lola_G at 9:53 AM on January 28, 2005

Good mentions, but I'd also suggest you look at Subarus. Not as pretty as the others, but they are bulletproof, safe, have the AWD that you want.
posted by TeamBilly at 9:56 AM on January 28, 2005

Also, I live in MN. Handles so well in snow. I have had to take it off road a number of times and it is SO MUCH FUN!!!

I am giddy just thinking about it. I hate the Escape. I have driven it a number of times as a rental. Too small -- more like a car.

My family has Expeditions and F150s -- too big.

XTerra, just right. I don't like the aesthetics of the new Pathfinder but that is just me. Other than that, I think Nissan makes excellent automobiles.
posted by Lola_G at 9:58 AM on January 28, 2005

Can you get a Defender in Canada (or the US)? They are fantastic off road vehicles.
posted by caddis at 10:00 AM on January 28, 2005

I should say we are considering only used vehicles.

The Escapes are 02/03 w/~60km @ $20-25k, Pathfinders are 96-02 w/60-160km @ $15-25k, the 99 4Runner is 40km @ $28k.

Previous incarnations of the XTerra do not get high marks from Consumer Guide. They certainly aren't the truck the Pathfinder is. And alas, my wife doesn't seem to fit the Subaru Forrestor, which is a thoroughly kick-ass high-mount car.

Keep in mind that most of the driving will be on asphalt. It'll be driven in-town, used to haul home reno stuff, taken occassionally on the highway, and will see perhaps a half-dozen real off-roading trips a year.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:11 AM on January 28, 2005

I've got a Ford Escape and love it but we're not using it for offroad excursions. Its still a pig on gas though. Its not overly huge like other SUVs and carries my little family capably.

And they have the new Escape Hybrid coming out soon that'll give excellent mileage.

Growing up, I always liked 4Runners. What about Jeeps? Or the Land Rover Freelanders?
posted by fenriq at 10:15 AM on January 28, 2005

I have a Jeep Cherokee Sport and love it. I bought it b/c an x-gf had one with 250K miles on it. Mine is doing well at 100K.
Also, they have not changed much over the past 20 or so years so parts are plentiful and repairs fairly easy. It is great in the snow (much better than full time AWD vehicles I've tried) and is rugged (and cheap) enough that I do not worry about damaging it when I go off pavement. My only complaint would be that the back seat is cramped for adults.
Gas mileage is about 17-20MPG which is not great but seems to be normal.
I might prefer a 4Runner but can't bring myself to cough up the cash.
posted by evilelf at 10:44 AM on January 28, 2005

I love my Toyota. We currently have a 1981 Tercel and a 1998 Tacoma V6 4x4. Previously I had a 1987 4 cyl Turbo 4x4. All have been very reliable vehicles.
posted by trbrts at 10:47 AM on January 28, 2005

I'm also considering doing the car -> SUV change and have looked at both the Escape and the Pathfinder. The PF seems a lot better to me for about the same price, but the Honda CR-V is the front runner for me, (as long as we´re here: does anyone have comments on the CR-V? )
posted by fjom at 10:53 AM on January 28, 2005

You did not mention it, but how about a Toyota Land Cruiser (I would suggest used 1995 or 1996)? In the '95 model year Toyota added anti-lock brakes.

Yes, brutal gas mileage. But just about indestructible. I own a 1987 TLC and highly recommend them. Second trbrts - can not beat Toyota reliability.
posted by MLIS at 10:58 AM on January 28, 2005

The first couple of model years for the CR-Vs were really under-powered, so watch out for that if you're thinking of buying used, fjom. My mother had one, and it was fine on the streets, as long as she never wanted to pass anything.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:16 AM on January 28, 2005

We went through the same thing last Decemeber, selling our trusty civic for a 2004 XTerrra. It has had some mixed reviews, mostly in part I think to the fact that the mileage is not stellar and that it drives much more truck like than something like the Escape. We bought in anyways and we absolutely love it. Lots of space, tough as ass and great looks to boot. And the 2005s look pretty damn impressive. We also looked at the Escape (didn't like the interior at all and got crappy customer service) and the Liberty. The Liberty is actually a nice vehicle, but pricewise the XTerra was a better vehicle for us. Unless you can afford it and you need the space I'd stay away from the 4Runner or Pathfinder. They're both pretty big SUVs these days and you'd probably be happier with something like the XTerra. If I recall from previous posts you're also from Vancouver, mail me if you want some more info (dealer recommendations, etc).
posted by trillion at 12:05 PM on January 28, 2005

I love my 2000 Volvo XC.
posted by oh posey at 12:13 PM on January 28, 2005

The Escape Hybrid is available now, but not, I'd imagine, as a used vehicle.
posted by jonson at 1:05 PM on January 28, 2005

fjom: A little blurb on compact and mid-sized SUV fuel economy ratings shows CR-V to be on top (if that's one of your search criteria).
posted by cyniczny at 2:43 PM on January 28, 2005

Well, hell, so the wiff went out and bought a Subaru Forestor today, 2001 model. I hope it was 01, 'cause if was '91 she got screwed!

Ah, well. It's all good. :-)
posted by five fresh fish at 2:46 PM on January 28, 2005

We LOVE our Honda Element...AWD , not 4 wheel drive, but we live in Maine and we get lots of snow...never a problem, and only 21K new!
posted by lobstah at 3:12 PM on January 28, 2005

oops, too late !
posted by lobstah at 3:13 PM on January 28, 2005

I have a ten yr old Grand Cherokee which has gone into some fairly remote country in the mountains and red rock country in Utah. I can't recommend it more. Lots of storage space; accepts whatever climb without any complaints. Even smooths out the ride a bit so the bumps aren't as jarring as in other off-roaders.

If I were in the market for a new vehicle, I'd go for the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, which has the length of an SUV, but with the removable top, near infinite amount of aftermarket parts, and if you get the Rubicon edition or add your own lift kit, you'll be able to go almost anywhere. Even without the kits, you'll be able to go almost anywhere.

If you're looking for a small SUV, I'd recommend the Liberty or Xterra or the Land Rover Freelander. I've seen the Liberty go places I never would have thought possible for such a vehicle. I also see the Xterra's around Moab fairly often. The Freelander has gotten some nice reviews about its off-road capability but you do have to look out for some spotty quality from Land Rover.

The Ford Escape would be a huge mistake. Despite a nice build quality, I'd never take the Mazda offroad either. The Subaru would be nice but, in a way, kinda limiting. The 4Runner wouldn't be bad. I see those around all the time.

Still, I'm heavily biased towards the Jeep. Well built and well designed for this sort of thing and easy to repair with a huge aftermarket for whatever you want to do.
posted by pandaharma at 11:31 PM on January 28, 2005

AFAIK, the Jeep Wranglers are nearly unbearable on-road: rough, noisy, uncomfortable, noisy, rough, and nasty.

The Liberty is off-road capable, yes; it is also has a well-appointed interior and is comfortable. Its road manners are much improved over the Wrangler, but not as good as the Escape and with poor gas mileage.

It comes down to rationally choosing between on-road comfort, off-road performance, and the amount of each one is likely to engage in. When you drive 99.9% on-road, it's rather silly to purchase a full-blown off-road vehicle.

And for us, the deed is done. If it proves inadequate, we'll simply sell and purchase anew.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:36 AM on January 29, 2005

the Jeep Wranglers are nearly unbearable on-road: rough, noisy, uncomfortable, noisy, rough, and nasty.

All in personal opinion, of course. While I don't recommend it for long trips, your noisy, uncomfortable, nasty ride is to me fun, exhilerating, and earthy. After all, it was Enzo Ferrari who once said that the jeep is the only true American sports car, and he knows a little something about driving.

If someone wants a smooth, float above the road ride, run from the jeep wrangler, but if everyone thought the ride was nasty none would be sold. Not to mention that if you DO get caught off road, wranglers will be passing your escape by.

There are so many advantages with a jeep, especially a wrangler, some previously pointed out that I won't go into, that you simply can't compare it to an escape, which is built for the road, not off road. It's unfair.

In fact, there was a 60 minute/date line show a few years ago that took suvs off road stock to see how they did. The ford explorer was awful. Basically, the off road abilities were for show. Not so with the wrangler. Right off the lot they're amazing off road. Which is why when the escape name is long gone jeep will still be kickin'.
posted by justgary at 6:21 PM on January 29, 2005

I drove a rental Cherokee for 10 days a while back. I found it very cramped, noisy, evil-handling on-road, and very thirsty. In the 21st Century, you can do much better. Too bad your wife doesn't like the Forester; it's a nice ride.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:18 AM on January 30, 2005

Jesus, gary, it's a car, not a religion...

My wife does like the Forester: that's what she ended up buying.

Interestingly, it's a car for both of us, but it feels very much like her car to me. I guess I still really yearn for a Z3...

Anyway, the Forester seems like a great little beast. Very stable, great handling, nice size. I think we're going to find it quite accomodating.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:29 AM on January 30, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]