Fair financial practice for a couple with unequal incomes
February 5, 2010 3:04 PM Subscribe
Fair financial practice for a couple with unequal incomes? How can or should expenses be split when partners are no longer making anywhere near the same amount?
I know, I know - way too many couples are unable to communicate effectively about finances. Despite our best efforts, my partner and I seem to have become one of those couples and resentment (on both sides) is starting to set in.
We’ve lived together for just over a year now and have always split expenses equally. He has a good job and I’m in the process of finishing my PhD. While I was a funded student, this worked to a reasonable degree. However, my funding has just run out and I’m now relying almost exclusively on savings to fund the remainder of my studies. As a result, I’ve had to cut my spending but we’re still splitting things 50:50.
I’m feeling upset about things for a few reasons. First, my partner’s annual gross income is now 18 times what mine is (excluding my savings). Second, I tried talking about this months before my funding ran out and just wasn’t heard. I proposed moving toward splitting expenses in proportion to income but my partner later told me he thought I was asking him to pay more for food because he eats more (which wasn’t even remotely what we talked about). Third, his response to my financial situation is to suggest that he could loan me some money. I find this very uncomfortable – it feels too much like he’s setting me up to “owe” him (figuratively as well as literally). I think I’d wind up feeling like a dependant rather than a partner. If the situation were reversed, I’m certain I would just pay an increased percentage of things (and, indeed, early in our relationship, I did). From our past money conversations, I also worry that this behavior will continue through to marriage and possibly to children – and I can’t think of anything more humiliating than having to ask for a loan after having a child so that I can eat.
As far as I can tell, he’s feeling frustrated because he perceives equality in a relationship as splitting things 50:50. He’s also frustrated because I’m refusing to spend even more of my savings than I already am and feels that by subsidizing me, this is taking away from his own ability to save (I’d disagree with this, based on his spending patterns and he'd certainly agree that he blows a good amount of money each month). I’ve managed to save more money than he has but my savings are modest at best. Lastly, he seems to feel that contributing more to monthly expenses or providing a loan to me are much the same thing and can’t understand why I’m so very much against the idea of a loan.
Admittedly, I’ve also been somewhat passive aggressive about this developing conflict. I all but refuse to go out with him and his friends because I’d much rather spend my limited cash on something I’d really like to do with my good friends. This has been going on for some time now. When he received a substantial bonus a few months ago, I found myself making asides about how it’s great he’s got this bonus but it’d didn’t really matter to me as I would never see any benefit from it. I later apologized only to find out he was unaware of the comments, which I thought were obnoxiously obvious. He will eventually offer to pay for some things, but only after I go on for some time about how I can’t afford them. I feel gross when this happens because I feel like I’m begging – in the end, I’d just prefer to remain at home rather than put myself through this. His response to stressful situations is to ignore them and hope they’ll go away.
So, Metafilter, please help me. While I am living on my savings, I’m lucky to be able to live comfortably (though far from extravagantly). I’m not looking to live a luxurious lifestyle and am okay living on the amount I’ve budgeted - it just becomes difficult when I feel like my partner asks me to live outside of my stated means. I feel that our current financial setup is unfair and am entirely unable to communicate this to my partner, especially with when it comes to why I really really don’t want a loan from him. Alternately, am I off base? Should I just spend more? Should I just STFU when it comes to money and do the best on what I can afford? How do we make this money thing work?
I know, I know - way too many couples are unable to communicate effectively about finances. Despite our best efforts, my partner and I seem to have become one of those couples and resentment (on both sides) is starting to set in.
We’ve lived together for just over a year now and have always split expenses equally. He has a good job and I’m in the process of finishing my PhD. While I was a funded student, this worked to a reasonable degree. However, my funding has just run out and I’m now relying almost exclusively on savings to fund the remainder of my studies. As a result, I’ve had to cut my spending but we’re still splitting things 50:50.
I’m feeling upset about things for a few reasons. First, my partner’s annual gross income is now 18 times what mine is (excluding my savings). Second, I tried talking about this months before my funding ran out and just wasn’t heard. I proposed moving toward splitting expenses in proportion to income but my partner later told me he thought I was asking him to pay more for food because he eats more (which wasn’t even remotely what we talked about). Third, his response to my financial situation is to suggest that he could loan me some money. I find this very uncomfortable – it feels too much like he’s setting me up to “owe” him (figuratively as well as literally). I think I’d wind up feeling like a dependant rather than a partner. If the situation were reversed, I’m certain I would just pay an increased percentage of things (and, indeed, early in our relationship, I did). From our past money conversations, I also worry that this behavior will continue through to marriage and possibly to children – and I can’t think of anything more humiliating than having to ask for a loan after having a child so that I can eat.
As far as I can tell, he’s feeling frustrated because he perceives equality in a relationship as splitting things 50:50. He’s also frustrated because I’m refusing to spend even more of my savings than I already am and feels that by subsidizing me, this is taking away from his own ability to save (I’d disagree with this, based on his spending patterns and he'd certainly agree that he blows a good amount of money each month). I’ve managed to save more money than he has but my savings are modest at best. Lastly, he seems to feel that contributing more to monthly expenses or providing a loan to me are much the same thing and can’t understand why I’m so very much against the idea of a loan.
Admittedly, I’ve also been somewhat passive aggressive about this developing conflict. I all but refuse to go out with him and his friends because I’d much rather spend my limited cash on something I’d really like to do with my good friends. This has been going on for some time now. When he received a substantial bonus a few months ago, I found myself making asides about how it’s great he’s got this bonus but it’d didn’t really matter to me as I would never see any benefit from it. I later apologized only to find out he was unaware of the comments, which I thought were obnoxiously obvious. He will eventually offer to pay for some things, but only after I go on for some time about how I can’t afford them. I feel gross when this happens because I feel like I’m begging – in the end, I’d just prefer to remain at home rather than put myself through this. His response to stressful situations is to ignore them and hope they’ll go away.
So, Metafilter, please help me. While I am living on my savings, I’m lucky to be able to live comfortably (though far from extravagantly). I’m not looking to live a luxurious lifestyle and am okay living on the amount I’ve budgeted - it just becomes difficult when I feel like my partner asks me to live outside of my stated means. I feel that our current financial setup is unfair and am entirely unable to communicate this to my partner, especially with when it comes to why I really really don’t want a loan from him. Alternately, am I off base? Should I just spend more? Should I just STFU when it comes to money and do the best on what I can afford? How do we make this money thing work?
It seems like people have different default settings for things like this, but based on my moral compass, I think he's doing things wrong by requiring the two of you to split things 50/50. I don't think you need to split shared expenses directly along an income ratio, but it would be worrisome to me if I made myself clear to my partner that I don't think it's fair to split things equally where she makes 10x more than me, and didn't get a satisfactory reply, or any reply, really.
Like most relationship questions, I think a long discussion about this is due, and make sure he engages you in the discussion. If he thinks that you should keep splitting things 50/50, find out why. Maybe it's an equality thing, maybe he doesn't want anyone to feel beholden, maybe it's something out of left field like he feels like he'd be paying you for your companionship or something. Find out.
Whatever the case, your option of S'ingTFU about money sure isn't the answer, especially, as you suggest here, marriage and kids may be down the road. People get emotional about money sometimes, but you really do need to talk about it if you plan on having a long-term relationship, and ESPECIALLY when, as here, you're living together with shared expenses.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:15 PM on February 5, 2010
Like most relationship questions, I think a long discussion about this is due, and make sure he engages you in the discussion. If he thinks that you should keep splitting things 50/50, find out why. Maybe it's an equality thing, maybe he doesn't want anyone to feel beholden, maybe it's something out of left field like he feels like he'd be paying you for your companionship or something. Find out.
Whatever the case, your option of S'ingTFU about money sure isn't the answer, especially, as you suggest here, marriage and kids may be down the road. People get emotional about money sometimes, but you really do need to talk about it if you plan on having a long-term relationship, and ESPECIALLY when, as here, you're living together with shared expenses.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:15 PM on February 5, 2010
Yeah, I was gonna go into the details of how me and my partner split our expenses based on a proportion of income, but I don't think that'll fix the underlying problems in the relationship. Ashley801's advice is VERY right.
You have a right to live within your means. Either your boyfriend can help you do that by paying for expenses proportionally, or he can help by agreeing to a more modest lifestyle, or he can not help at all and you can do it on your own.
posted by muddgirl at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2010
You have a right to live within your means. Either your boyfriend can help you do that by paying for expenses proportionally, or he can help by agreeing to a more modest lifestyle, or he can not help at all and you can do it on your own.
posted by muddgirl at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2010
There was a long AskMe on this a couple of months ago. I can't find it now, but I think the general gist of it was you don't have a right to his money, but he should probably be more generous. Does anyone have that thread bookmarked?
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:18 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:18 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
OK, stop being passive aggressive, firstly. It's not getting you anywhere and it's just... ick.
This really, really does not bode well for you two that you can't even have a proper conversation about it, let alone that you have vastly different views.
My husband has always made at least twice what I have, and he worked full-time while I was in grad school. That was our first year of living together, before we were married, and there was little question that whatever money was brought in was ours, not his or mine. At that point, we still had separate bank accounts and paid bills on our own, but if I needed money from him, it was mine, and vice versa. He's more generous by nature, and I'm more, um, conservative? but we found middle ground because we are a TEAM. You and your partner are not acting as a team. I recommend counseling since you can't even talk to each other.
posted by desjardins at 3:19 PM on February 5, 2010 [18 favorites]
This really, really does not bode well for you two that you can't even have a proper conversation about it, let alone that you have vastly different views.
My husband has always made at least twice what I have, and he worked full-time while I was in grad school. That was our first year of living together, before we were married, and there was little question that whatever money was brought in was ours, not his or mine. At that point, we still had separate bank accounts and paid bills on our own, but if I needed money from him, it was mine, and vice versa. He's more generous by nature, and I'm more, um, conservative? but we found middle ground because we are a TEAM. You and your partner are not acting as a team. I recommend counseling since you can't even talk to each other.
posted by desjardins at 3:19 PM on February 5, 2010 [18 favorites]
Admiral, if it helps you remember it, I think the theme of that one involved a vacation that the partner wanted to take that the OP couldn't afford.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:20 PM on February 5, 2010
posted by craven_morhead at 3:20 PM on February 5, 2010
Ha, found it. This was the one I was thinking of anyway.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:21 PM on February 5, 2010
posted by craven_morhead at 3:21 PM on February 5, 2010
desjardin - my story is similar, except that when we started dating he made essentially 100x more than I did, and then when we graduated I made 3x what he did, and now I essentially make an undefinable amount more than him (since nothing times zero equals anything). It's been in our nature since day one to consider our income as our income. But not everyone is this way.
posted by muddgirl at 3:25 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 3:25 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you can just STFU. It is really hard to live with people on a different income scale than you unless some very clear understanding about money has been reached. If not the whole thing will continue to fester and there will be more passive aggression going on. It seems like you CAN communicate your issue nicely and clearly, as you did in the last paragraph of your post.
If you haven't been THAT clear about it to him, then you should be, and hopefully drive a clear bargain that is easier for both to live with.
I know that's kind of glib to say, because money is such a loaded topic that it can be hard to even start a conversation. Usually (in my experience anyway) bringing up money is a commitment challenge. The fact that in his misguided way he offered you a *loan* suggests that you two are not at the lifelong commitment stage.
If the conversation (and maybe a counselling session or two) doesn't work, here is an off-the-wall idea: move out. That way you will be living on your own without any subsidy from him, and it will be obvious that you meet on equal terms, and any gifts he gives you will clearly be gifts. Sounds dramatic, yes, but this is a serious topic that your relationship will have to work through to move on, so some serious moves are necessary.
Godspeed!
posted by martin2000 at 3:30 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you haven't been THAT clear about it to him, then you should be, and hopefully drive a clear bargain that is easier for both to live with.
I know that's kind of glib to say, because money is such a loaded topic that it can be hard to even start a conversation. Usually (in my experience anyway) bringing up money is a commitment challenge. The fact that in his misguided way he offered you a *loan* suggests that you two are not at the lifelong commitment stage.
If the conversation (and maybe a counselling session or two) doesn't work, here is an off-the-wall idea: move out. That way you will be living on your own without any subsidy from him, and it will be obvious that you meet on equal terms, and any gifts he gives you will clearly be gifts. Sounds dramatic, yes, but this is a serious topic that your relationship will have to work through to move on, so some serious moves are necessary.
Godspeed!
posted by martin2000 at 3:30 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know for some couples 50/50 works, but especially when you're thinking about children one day (!!!), to me, he's either all in or he's not in at all.
Our solution, FWIW, is that we live on my higher-earning better half's salary, and only that. My earnings go into savings. We knew that when we spawned I'd be at home with the spawn, so we started the way we intended to go on. Some of my friends have had success combining households in the same manner (one partner's salary covers the new combined household; the other partner's salary goes into savings and may provides a "fun money" allowance).
It doesn't seem like the two of you have a partnership going, whether that partnership splits the bills or pools the cash ... there's no teamwork or group discussion. (And if he intends this to continue into marriage and children ... well, for me, that would be a dealbreaker. I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable/preemptively humiliated about it.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:36 PM on February 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
Our solution, FWIW, is that we live on my higher-earning better half's salary, and only that. My earnings go into savings. We knew that when we spawned I'd be at home with the spawn, so we started the way we intended to go on. Some of my friends have had success combining households in the same manner (one partner's salary covers the new combined household; the other partner's salary goes into savings and may provides a "fun money" allowance).
It doesn't seem like the two of you have a partnership going, whether that partnership splits the bills or pools the cash ... there's no teamwork or group discussion. (And if he intends this to continue into marriage and children ... well, for me, that would be a dealbreaker. I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable/preemptively humiliated about it.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:36 PM on February 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
Craven--that's the one, thanks. OP, you may find that thread helpful. FWIW, I don't think you're being unreasonable. Money can be a powderkeg in relationships, and the only way it gets worked out is through calm and trusting openness. You have to drop the passive aggression, but it's equally incumbent on you to say, "Hey--I really can't afford XYZ, so if you want us to do it together, it's your treat."
I'm totally with you on the loan thing--that's highly infantilizing (though I'm sure he doesn't mean to be a jerk). But money makes people act weird.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:42 PM on February 5, 2010
I'm totally with you on the loan thing--that's highly infantilizing (though I'm sure he doesn't mean to be a jerk). But money makes people act weird.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:42 PM on February 5, 2010
I also think that he or y'all or not at the serious commitment stage; especially that he is planning his life around breaking up with you, not staying with you.
I know perfectly nice people do it differently, but in my experience the way a couple who intends to stay together deals with stuff like this is simple: You take your income, you take my income, you put it in a blender and turn it into our income, and we buy stuff with our income.
Equality in a relationship isn't splitting things 50-50. Equality is when I give you everything I have and you give me everything you have, and oh holy shit we're both in it together.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:45 PM on February 5, 2010 [32 favorites]
I know perfectly nice people do it differently, but in my experience the way a couple who intends to stay together deals with stuff like this is simple: You take your income, you take my income, you put it in a blender and turn it into our income, and we buy stuff with our income.
Equality in a relationship isn't splitting things 50-50. Equality is when I give you everything I have and you give me everything you have, and oh holy shit we're both in it together.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:45 PM on February 5, 2010 [32 favorites]
IMHO, living together for a year is not the same as having children. I'm in a similar situation with my SO. I worked when we first started dating and living together, but he made more. Then I went back to school and while he covers a lot more than I do (rent, utilities - which allows him to dictate where we live/what our utilities are (i.e. I wouldn't pay for HBO or the hockey package), I used my stipend for "my" bills - my phone, my clothes, and the majority of our groceries.
Then we had a child and while this system still is in place, as the primary breadwinner, he covered all of our child's medical and childcare bills (adds up to a lot!) and I cover groceries still and other baby-related stuff like clothing, diapers, etc.
And now, like you, I'm facing not having funding in the next year. At that point, he is going to have to take on the bills that I'm now covering (hence eating into his savings) in terms of groceries and baby items. As far as buying me clothes or paying my cell phone bill - I'm with you in thinking that it'd be weird/difficult to get a "loan" from him for that, even though he could cover it. I'd probably rather take on credit card debt than ask him for a loan. If there was ever something that the baby really needed, I'm certain that he'd pay for it.
I don't know if this helps at all, but at least you know that there are other people in your situation.
posted by k8t at 3:46 PM on February 5, 2010
Then we had a child and while this system still is in place, as the primary breadwinner, he covered all of our child's medical and childcare bills (adds up to a lot!) and I cover groceries still and other baby-related stuff like clothing, diapers, etc.
And now, like you, I'm facing not having funding in the next year. At that point, he is going to have to take on the bills that I'm now covering (hence eating into his savings) in terms of groceries and baby items. As far as buying me clothes or paying my cell phone bill - I'm with you in thinking that it'd be weird/difficult to get a "loan" from him for that, even though he could cover it. I'd probably rather take on credit card debt than ask him for a loan. If there was ever something that the baby really needed, I'm certain that he'd pay for it.
I don't know if this helps at all, but at least you know that there are other people in your situation.
posted by k8t at 3:46 PM on February 5, 2010
I'd move out. Seriously. Right now what you have is a room mate relationship. What you want is a marriage-ish relationship which you aren't getting. Room mates split the bills 50-50 and make loans to each other that are supposed to be paid back. Couples (as in the married kind) pool their money, make budgets together, plan for what will happen when you have kids, etc. Maybe he is just dense and needs to shift from 'his money' to 'our money' if that is the relationship direction he wants to go in. Maybe he is a control freak where his money is his period (ie: not the kind of guy you want for the father of your kids). Good luck and definitely stick up for yourself in this situation!
posted by MsKim at 3:52 PM on February 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by MsKim at 3:52 PM on February 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
You're a crossroads here and need to decide if this this a potential long-term relationship. If one of you thinks it's not, you should move out now. If you both think it is, then you need to cut the shit and merge your finances and stop thinking like this. You're being pushed to this decision point a little early, but it'll happen sooner or later that there's a bad financial situation or one of you gets a great job in Guam or someone gets sick or has a kid or whatever. Eventually you both need to decide "hey, what's good for each of us individually is seriously at odds with what we need to do as a couple." Someone will have to give. This time it'll be him. Next time it'll be you. Life as a couple (and later as parents) is acknowledging that you can't always have exactly what you want if you also want to be part of a marriage/family.
posted by paanta at 4:30 PM on February 5, 2010
posted by paanta at 4:30 PM on February 5, 2010
Fair? IMO, the only "fair" for two people in a serious relationship living with one another is that all money goes into the pot and is allocated according to need. Now, the higher-earning partner might get more fun money with the justification that they have a more stressful job and therefore need more money for, say, lunches out, etc, but on the whole, if you aren't roommates, you shouldn't be living like roommates.
50/50 only works if your incomes are roughly 50/50. Which they aren't. This doesn't work.
DO NOT LET YOURSELF GO INTO DEBT TO HIM. If you agree that it's a debt and the relationship doesn't work out, he could *sue* you. Do you want that to happen? No. If he's not seeing how insane that notion is, that's his problem.
Either live down to the standard where you can genuinely afford 50/50, or tell him that if he wants to live well, you can live jointly and spend jointly and ask permission for major purchases just like most established couples do. Or split up, because this sounds to me like a serious commitment issue when you're thinking about marriage and babies and he's thinking about "loaning" you money so you can do fun things with him.
posted by larkspur at 4:54 PM on February 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
50/50 only works if your incomes are roughly 50/50. Which they aren't. This doesn't work.
DO NOT LET YOURSELF GO INTO DEBT TO HIM. If you agree that it's a debt and the relationship doesn't work out, he could *sue* you. Do you want that to happen? No. If he's not seeing how insane that notion is, that's his problem.
Either live down to the standard where you can genuinely afford 50/50, or tell him that if he wants to live well, you can live jointly and spend jointly and ask permission for major purchases just like most established couples do. Or split up, because this sounds to me like a serious commitment issue when you're thinking about marriage and babies and he's thinking about "loaning" you money so you can do fun things with him.
posted by larkspur at 4:54 PM on February 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
When Mr. BlahLaLa and I first moved in together, he made 5x my income. Later, I raised my earnings, but he still made about twice my income. Now I'm a full-time mom and make basically zero, but in short term high-intensity freelancing I can make 5x his monthly income, but only in month-long bursts that happen at most once a year.
That's probably too much information, but the gist is -- through it all, we've thrown the money we make into a pot and paid our bills from it. If there's not enough money, we've adjusted our lifestyle. You're either in it together, or you're not. And if you're not, i'd move out ASAP.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:55 PM on February 5, 2010
That's probably too much information, but the gist is -- through it all, we've thrown the money we make into a pot and paid our bills from it. If there's not enough money, we've adjusted our lifestyle. You're either in it together, or you're not. And if you're not, i'd move out ASAP.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:55 PM on February 5, 2010
He feels like he's subsidizing you if you don't contribute 50%? I feel like you're subsidizing him if you do. As a percentage of income, you're spending a significantly higher amount on necessities, which allows him to have more for savings and luxuries. Given your income levels, that seems backwards to me. If he wants to share 50-50, is he OK with both of you living like unfunded grad students?
On the other hand, not every committed couple throws everything together into one joint pot. Varying degrees of financial merger are possible; what's important is that you arrive at something that works for both of you.
I had something very tl;dr typed up about what works for me, with ratios and everything. But the upshot is this: You need a budget. Actually, you need three budgets: Mine, His, Joint. Set some expectations for how much you spend on things such as housing, food, utilities, travel, study, etc. Then you can each contribute to the Joint budget an amount in proportion to the money you have left over after your separate non-discretionary expenses are paid. It's good to have some money - even just a little - left over to have fun with on your own, so take that into account. Then when the financial situation changes due to jobs, health, kids, whatever, you run the numbers again and adjust your contributions. This is just One Way to Do It - other people's mileage may vary.
There are several places where negotiation happens: What counts as non-discretionary? Which expenses are joint and which are separate? What if his expectation of a reasonable amount to spend on fun stuff is wildly different from yours? What do you do when one person has either a windfall or a financial emergency? What to do if the Joint spending goes over budget? These are all necessary conversations. They're not fun (OK, some folks find them fun, but that's not me), but you've got to be able to talk about things like this, or you'll both end up resentful.
posted by expialidocious at 5:11 PM on February 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, not every committed couple throws everything together into one joint pot. Varying degrees of financial merger are possible; what's important is that you arrive at something that works for both of you.
I had something very tl;dr typed up about what works for me, with ratios and everything. But the upshot is this: You need a budget. Actually, you need three budgets: Mine, His, Joint. Set some expectations for how much you spend on things such as housing, food, utilities, travel, study, etc. Then you can each contribute to the Joint budget an amount in proportion to the money you have left over after your separate non-discretionary expenses are paid. It's good to have some money - even just a little - left over to have fun with on your own, so take that into account. Then when the financial situation changes due to jobs, health, kids, whatever, you run the numbers again and adjust your contributions. This is just One Way to Do It - other people's mileage may vary.
There are several places where negotiation happens: What counts as non-discretionary? Which expenses are joint and which are separate? What if his expectation of a reasonable amount to spend on fun stuff is wildly different from yours? What do you do when one person has either a windfall or a financial emergency? What to do if the Joint spending goes over budget? These are all necessary conversations. They're not fun (OK, some folks find them fun, but that's not me), but you've got to be able to talk about things like this, or you'll both end up resentful.
posted by expialidocious at 5:11 PM on February 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you think that you will get married eventually, or become life long partners, figure this out now. This is the type of thing that causes people to get divorced later on.
If the two of you are roommates, than 50/50 is fine on the necessities, and don't do anything beyond that. If he wants more, let him pay for those things.
If you are thinking of marriage, I would strongly suggest that you combine your finances. It makes things much easier, and these questions no longer come up.
The percentage each of you should get to spend on "fun stuff" should have nothing to do with how much you make. If he works in a job that is very stressful, and your job is really easy, than it makes sense if he spends more on entertainment and other things to help him relax. The fact that he makes more than you shouldn't affect the family budget.
Think of it this way: If you got a job modeling fingerless gloves, and the fingerless gloves market took off, and you made 10 million dollars for 2 days worth of work, and your partner is working 80 hour weeks at minimum wage, which of the two of you needs that "fun money" the most?
posted by markblasco at 5:23 PM on February 5, 2010
If the two of you are roommates, than 50/50 is fine on the necessities, and don't do anything beyond that. If he wants more, let him pay for those things.
If you are thinking of marriage, I would strongly suggest that you combine your finances. It makes things much easier, and these questions no longer come up.
The percentage each of you should get to spend on "fun stuff" should have nothing to do with how much you make. If he works in a job that is very stressful, and your job is really easy, than it makes sense if he spends more on entertainment and other things to help him relax. The fact that he makes more than you shouldn't affect the family budget.
Think of it this way: If you got a job modeling fingerless gloves, and the fingerless gloves market took off, and you made 10 million dollars for 2 days worth of work, and your partner is working 80 hour weeks at minimum wage, which of the two of you needs that "fun money" the most?
posted by markblasco at 5:23 PM on February 5, 2010
When we first started living together, we made a solid shared budget and split that proportionately to income. We got married, we bought a house, our salaries went up and down, and we stayed with that system for years. Over the course of a few years, Mrs. Advicepig decided that she wanted to go back to school. I was (and still am) really proud of her. So today, I provide all the money for the shared budget and though I've offered to pay all her bills too, she's going through her savings. She's got a deep seated need to feel like she can provide for herself. We may have jumped into this part of our life as a team, ready to take on the world, but sometimes a person needs to feel like they can contribute too.
So what's this mean for you? If you two are going to make a real go at making this last, you have to find a way to come some agreement. I personally think that if you don't approach every big issue as a team, you're not going to stay happy.
posted by advicepig at 5:43 PM on February 5, 2010
So what's this mean for you? If you two are going to make a real go at making this last, you have to find a way to come some agreement. I personally think that if you don't approach every big issue as a team, you're not going to stay happy.
posted by advicepig at 5:43 PM on February 5, 2010
I totally disagree that the only fair way to divide expenses is to combine all income and distribute it according to need. Wow. There are a lot of ways to handle joint finances.
What works for me and my SO is that he buys all the groceries and I pay all the bills and we split major expenses and the mortgage down the middle. I pay out a little bit more, which is okay because my salary is higher than his. Money that's not spent on joint stuff is ours to do with what we like with no questions asked.
I think your SO is being crazy unreasonable in particular because he's apparently unwilling to sit down and have a realistic conversation about money. Perhaps a third party would be helpful, a therapist or counselor or financial planner, to offer additional options and be objective.
posted by desuetude at 6:40 PM on February 5, 2010 [4 favorites]
What works for me and my SO is that he buys all the groceries and I pay all the bills and we split major expenses and the mortgage down the middle. I pay out a little bit more, which is okay because my salary is higher than his. Money that's not spent on joint stuff is ours to do with what we like with no questions asked.
I think your SO is being crazy unreasonable in particular because he's apparently unwilling to sit down and have a realistic conversation about money. Perhaps a third party would be helpful, a therapist or counselor or financial planner, to offer additional options and be objective.
posted by desuetude at 6:40 PM on February 5, 2010 [4 favorites]
The question really is: are you ready to be a financial family?
If you are a financial family, than you put all of your money in one account and then take money out of that, and then you can have arguments about big spending items instead of groceries. Families shouldn't notice who makes more -- it's all going into one pot anyways. Otherwise, we'd charge our children rent.
But it's understandable if your relationship isn't ready for that level of committment.
posted by jb at 7:05 PM on February 5, 2010
If you are a financial family, than you put all of your money in one account and then take money out of that, and then you can have arguments about big spending items instead of groceries. Families shouldn't notice who makes more -- it's all going into one pot anyways. Otherwise, we'd charge our children rent.
But it's understandable if your relationship isn't ready for that level of committment.
posted by jb at 7:05 PM on February 5, 2010
I’m certain I would just pay an increased percentage of things (and, indeed, early in our relationship, I did)
He willing to benefit from generosity but not to extend it. Yet, he's presenting his objection in moral terms, which is why you are having so much trouble accepting it. It's always difficult to accept a double standard.
Ultimately, he doesn't share your values. At least you found that out before marriage and children. I'm really sorry.
posted by melissa may at 7:06 PM on February 5, 2010 [9 favorites]
He willing to benefit from generosity but not to extend it. Yet, he's presenting his objection in moral terms, which is why you are having so much trouble accepting it. It's always difficult to accept a double standard.
Ultimately, he doesn't share your values. At least you found that out before marriage and children. I'm really sorry.
posted by melissa may at 7:06 PM on February 5, 2010 [9 favorites]
I think I agree with Ashley and Melissa. As some folks in this thread have opined, the details of how you work things out don't really matter too much - the question is whether you can work things out.
Your question is titled "Fair financial practice for a couple with unequal incomes," but it seems that you are not looking for financial advice but relationship advice. If you are unable to have a serious, sit-down, "we need to talk" conversation with your partner that is based on mutual respect and a fundamental desire to understand one another, then to me that suggests deeper problems in your relationship than just money. If you can have that talk, then have it. If you can't (for whatever reason), consider moving on.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 8:18 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your question is titled "Fair financial practice for a couple with unequal incomes," but it seems that you are not looking for financial advice but relationship advice. If you are unable to have a serious, sit-down, "we need to talk" conversation with your partner that is based on mutual respect and a fundamental desire to understand one another, then to me that suggests deeper problems in your relationship than just money. If you can have that talk, then have it. If you can't (for whatever reason), consider moving on.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 8:18 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am a 5th year PhD student working on my dissertation and my boyfriend makes a zillion times more what I do (but I am still funded). When we moved in together this year, we cut our standard of living down so that neither one of us would be resentful of the other: me for having to pay more than I could afford, him for having to subsidize our rock-n-roll lifestyle. He pays 2/3 of the rent and the utilities and I pay 1/3 and the laundry (we live in NYC). We both buy groceries and cook and he usually picks up big-ticket items like our awesome Danish Modern dining room table and chairs. We no longer go out to dinner at, like, the French Laundry or Alinea, or take extravagant vacations like we did when we were first dating. We'll probably do some of that again once I have an actual job. If I can't find some source of funding next year, he will pick up the slack, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Your boyfriend does not sound very generous, which is too bad, but what really sucks is that you're living beyond your means when you don't need to. I agree with whoever said upthread that you're subsidizing his lifestyle; it's not fair. You must have a conversation about this. I suppose you could try couples counseling if this becomes a deal-breaker as finances are a major problem for many couples and any decent therapist will have experience dealing with these types of issues.
(BTW: We do NOT pool all of our money and use it as joint income; there are plenty of other ways to work as a couple. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a situation like that even if we were married, because I spend a lot of my "fun money" on clothes and costume jewelry and books (I economize severely on everything else in order to do that) and I wouldn't feel okay about using his money to do that. I also feel that each member in a relationship should have financial autonomy to a certain degree).
posted by alicetiara at 8:21 PM on February 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Your boyfriend does not sound very generous, which is too bad, but what really sucks is that you're living beyond your means when you don't need to. I agree with whoever said upthread that you're subsidizing his lifestyle; it's not fair. You must have a conversation about this. I suppose you could try couples counseling if this becomes a deal-breaker as finances are a major problem for many couples and any decent therapist will have experience dealing with these types of issues.
(BTW: We do NOT pool all of our money and use it as joint income; there are plenty of other ways to work as a couple. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a situation like that even if we were married, because I spend a lot of my "fun money" on clothes and costume jewelry and books (I economize severely on everything else in order to do that) and I wouldn't feel okay about using his money to do that. I also feel that each member in a relationship should have financial autonomy to a certain degree).
posted by alicetiara at 8:21 PM on February 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
I feel, as do some of the other contributors here, that given my own personal values and expectations and definition of intimacy, it's not a familial-level relationship to me if we don't think of the money that comes into the household as "our money," no matter who brought it home, and then the question becomes which big-ticket items are the highest priorities for us as a couple.
That doesn't describe everyone, obviously, as you can see from other responses here. But if it describes you -- as it seems you do, if you feel that your relationship is not truly intimate, or is infantalizing or humiliating to you, if he doesn't take that attitude, too -- then this is a dealbreaker. It would be a dealbreaker for me.
Sure, by talking it over, you might come up with a complicated plan to get through this interim period of incomelessness, via some combination of lowering your standard of living and continuing to hint at him treating for things you can't afford and, I dunno, increasing your non-monetary contributions to the household. But in my opinion, you're not going to get over this basic difference in what intimacy, family, sharing mean.
posted by palliser at 8:44 PM on February 5, 2010
That doesn't describe everyone, obviously, as you can see from other responses here. But if it describes you -- as it seems you do, if you feel that your relationship is not truly intimate, or is infantalizing or humiliating to you, if he doesn't take that attitude, too -- then this is a dealbreaker. It would be a dealbreaker for me.
Sure, by talking it over, you might come up with a complicated plan to get through this interim period of incomelessness, via some combination of lowering your standard of living and continuing to hint at him treating for things you can't afford and, I dunno, increasing your non-monetary contributions to the household. But in my opinion, you're not going to get over this basic difference in what intimacy, family, sharing mean.
posted by palliser at 8:44 PM on February 5, 2010
Response by poster: When I was in a LTR my SO made significantly, significantly more than me. We still split everything 50/50 (though things were a bit more flexible on the food front if one of us bought something the other didn't eat). This meant though he tailored his living standards to my budget. If he wanted to do something nice together I could not afford, he paid for it. This didn't happen often, as he adopted my pretty frugal lifestyle and saved a bunch as a result.
At the same time, I have friends in a LTR where the person making more basically pays for everything.
I think the fundamental point is if he wants things 50/50, he cannot expect you to share the finer things with him. If he wants to live together, he's gotta deal with the cheap apartment. If he wants to share food, he's can't shop at Whole Foods. Etc. If he wants nice things, he buys them for himself, and if he wants to share nice things with you, he can't expect you to contribute half. For instance, if he goes out with his friends you absolutely have a right to put your foot down and say you don't have money for it.
On the flip side, you don't have the right to demand that he gives you his money. You're not married. You're still dating. His money is still his money.
If these terms aren't acceptable to the two of you, it's probably not going to work out. You can't force him to give you money and he can't expect you to go into debt so he can split $300 dinners equally with you.
posted by Anonymous at 9:07 PM on February 5, 2010
At the same time, I have friends in a LTR where the person making more basically pays for everything.
I think the fundamental point is if he wants things 50/50, he cannot expect you to share the finer things with him. If he wants to live together, he's gotta deal with the cheap apartment. If he wants to share food, he's can't shop at Whole Foods. Etc. If he wants nice things, he buys them for himself, and if he wants to share nice things with you, he can't expect you to contribute half. For instance, if he goes out with his friends you absolutely have a right to put your foot down and say you don't have money for it.
On the flip side, you don't have the right to demand that he gives you his money. You're not married. You're still dating. His money is still his money.
If these terms aren't acceptable to the two of you, it's probably not going to work out. You can't force him to give you money and he can't expect you to go into debt so he can split $300 dinners equally with you.
posted by Anonymous at 9:07 PM on February 5, 2010
I went the route of "our-money" blender with my then-boyfriend, now-husband. However, I knew from basically day one that we were in it for the long haul. We were both college students, but I was significantly less broke than him. We're still in that mode even now (I make significantly more than him).
Another idea I've seen discussed before that doesn't go the whole-blender pile is to total up all the bills and costs associated with living your lifestyle. Then, add up incomes and divide the responsibilities proportionally such that each person is paying into a joint account that percentage of their income. Finally, pay all bills and joint expenses (like food) from said joint account.
Then again, if he can't see why you can't contribute as much to household upkeep as you did before, he doesn't sound like the most understanding guy. You may well have to smack him upside the head with a clue-by-for and detail all your finances. Culminate with the fact that it's not that you don't WANT to continue your way of life, it's that you CANNOT do so.
If he still doesn't get it, well, you have to take steps to protect your future if he shows no interest in having the same definition of intimacy as you.
posted by bookdragoness at 9:08 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Another idea I've seen discussed before that doesn't go the whole-blender pile is to total up all the bills and costs associated with living your lifestyle. Then, add up incomes and divide the responsibilities proportionally such that each person is paying into a joint account that percentage of their income. Finally, pay all bills and joint expenses (like food) from said joint account.
Then again, if he can't see why you can't contribute as much to household upkeep as you did before, he doesn't sound like the most understanding guy. You may well have to smack him upside the head with a clue-by-for and detail all your finances. Culminate with the fact that it's not that you don't WANT to continue your way of life, it's that you CANNOT do so.
If he still doesn't get it, well, you have to take steps to protect your future if he shows no interest in having the same definition of intimacy as you.
posted by bookdragoness at 9:08 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think Xenophobe has it.
I remember with past girlfriends it was 'her income' and 'my income'. Then when I met my wife it became 'our income'.
When we got married we both made promises that we would look after each other for richer or for poorer. If she lost her job tomorrow, I would take care of the both of us, no sweat. I don't really care about the dollars, I can make more of them. I care about her happiness more. She feels the same way.
I know this doesn't help you with the bump you have now, but maybe it will help you see something beyond it?
posted by Sutekh at 9:10 PM on February 5, 2010
I remember with past girlfriends it was 'her income' and 'my income'. Then when I met my wife it became 'our income'.
When we got married we both made promises that we would look after each other for richer or for poorer. If she lost her job tomorrow, I would take care of the both of us, no sweat. I don't really care about the dollars, I can make more of them. I care about her happiness more. She feels the same way.
I know this doesn't help you with the bump you have now, but maybe it will help you see something beyond it?
posted by Sutekh at 9:10 PM on February 5, 2010
My wife and I have separate pools of money, I can't imagine it any other way. I make considerably more than her, and pay the mortgage/rent, she pays the small bills except the propane, which I pay.
It seems to work out, and only gets stressful if my invoices are running low in any given month. It also allows us to pursue our independent hobbies without feeling like we need to ask if it's OK to spend what we want to out of our own stash.
That said, I think communal expenses should be split proportionally, which is what our system attempts to do. I think your boyfriend is a cheapskate, frankly.
posted by maxwelton at 9:45 PM on February 5, 2010
It seems to work out, and only gets stressful if my invoices are running low in any given month. It also allows us to pursue our independent hobbies without feeling like we need to ask if it's OK to spend what we want to out of our own stash.
That said, I think communal expenses should be split proportionally, which is what our system attempts to do. I think your boyfriend is a cheapskate, frankly.
posted by maxwelton at 9:45 PM on February 5, 2010
People are offering sensible advice about the financial impasse and the relationship implications of your communications disconnect: you can try to make him listen, but ultimately you'll have to decide as individuals how much you value the relationship. Your emotional investment might be unequal, and that would truly suck. The main thing I'd add is that finishing up a PhD is incredibly stressful, and running out of funding ratchets up the pressure. It probably isn't a great time to move out. Beyond the emotional repercussions, the ability to self-support would depend on variables such as the depth of your savings, projected timeline for completion and cost of living in your area. It must be hard to focus on the work of finishing if this issue is really bothering you. Consider what you need to get through this, short term, and definitely communicate how much it matters to you: maybe that does involve finding a place of your own where you feel more in control. In any case, decide what steps you are willing to take right now. I agree with the people who think you might have some difficult considerations ahead, even after the degree.
posted by woodway at 9:52 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by woodway at 9:52 PM on February 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
hal_c_on: actually, the savings discrepancy could point to a wider issue, namely attitudes towards savings and frugality. I can totally imagine anon's partner being a big earner but feckless with their money. If anon's partner prefers to spend rather than to save, then no wonder this is even harder to talk about than usual. I agree, it would be helpful if anon could expand on this.
FWIW I have always earned significantly more than my partner, like 2 or 3 or 4 times more. My attitude has generally been "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", and I have been happy covering the majority of our fixed expenses and making sure that my partner has a stream of money that she doesn't have to account for and which means that she's not dependent on me. But every year or two, we have a talk about how much is fair for each of us to spend on what and make sure we're happy about it. Failing to secure agreement about this was a big factor in the failure of my first marriage, and I've been careful to make sure it doesn't happen again.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:21 AM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
FWIW I have always earned significantly more than my partner, like 2 or 3 or 4 times more. My attitude has generally been "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", and I have been happy covering the majority of our fixed expenses and making sure that my partner has a stream of money that she doesn't have to account for and which means that she's not dependent on me. But every year or two, we have a talk about how much is fair for each of us to spend on what and make sure we're happy about it. Failing to secure agreement about this was a big factor in the failure of my first marriage, and I've been careful to make sure it doesn't happen again.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:21 AM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Second, I tried talking about this months before my funding ran out and just wasn’t heard."
Yes. You were not heard because you are subsidizing his lifestyle. He doesn't want that to end.
And with your mention of the loan offer... it's either cheapness or some sort of attempt at controlling you. I'm sure it's the type of attitude he picked up as a kid from his own household growing up, but that doesn't make it appropriate or acceptable now.
I'm with everyone who says you should give it one more honest conversation. If there is no resolution (be on your guard for weirdly structured deals, btw - real resolution will feel fair and "partner-y") then you should seriously think about moving out.
You are doing a great thing getting a PhD! The BF withholding money when you guys live together, well that smacks of something that can seriously undermine your self-esteem. Is that how you want to complete this wonderful degree you've been working towards?
It doesn't sound fun to be working that hard AND be wondering if the fellow in bed next to you every night cares for you. Plus to be worrying about the bills you can't keep up with? Yuck.
Move out so that you may live within your means if he continues to make this issue about him instead of both of you.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 5:12 AM on February 6, 2010
Yes. You were not heard because you are subsidizing his lifestyle. He doesn't want that to end.
And with your mention of the loan offer... it's either cheapness or some sort of attempt at controlling you. I'm sure it's the type of attitude he picked up as a kid from his own household growing up, but that doesn't make it appropriate or acceptable now.
I'm with everyone who says you should give it one more honest conversation. If there is no resolution (be on your guard for weirdly structured deals, btw - real resolution will feel fair and "partner-y") then you should seriously think about moving out.
You are doing a great thing getting a PhD! The BF withholding money when you guys live together, well that smacks of something that can seriously undermine your self-esteem. Is that how you want to complete this wonderful degree you've been working towards?
It doesn't sound fun to be working that hard AND be wondering if the fellow in bed next to you every night cares for you. Plus to be worrying about the bills you can't keep up with? Yuck.
Move out so that you may live within your means if he continues to make this issue about him instead of both of you.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 5:12 AM on February 6, 2010
Equality in a relationship isn't splitting things 50-50. Equality is when I give you everything I have and you give me everything you have, and oh holy shit we're both in it together.
I would favorite this 100 times if I could.
But even though turning everything into "ours" has worked really well in my life, there are a bunch of ways couples can successfully manage things financially. However, all of them involve communication. There's no way to passive aggressive your way out of this. Either the two of you can find a way to talk and negotiate and compromise, or you can't. And if you can't talk about this, I think you should question how solid the foundations of your relationship really are.
posted by Forktine at 5:53 AM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would favorite this 100 times if I could.
But even though turning everything into "ours" has worked really well in my life, there are a bunch of ways couples can successfully manage things financially. However, all of them involve communication. There's no way to passive aggressive your way out of this. Either the two of you can find a way to talk and negotiate and compromise, or you can't. And if you can't talk about this, I think you should question how solid the foundations of your relationship really are.
posted by Forktine at 5:53 AM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
One other thing I thought of, OP, on your fairness question, is to consider how you two treat the other major resource you both bring to the relationship: time. It's often (though not always) the case that a lower-earning partner has more free time, whether because higher-paying jobs are often more time-consuming, or because the lower-earning partner is working less than full-time. If this is the case for you -- if you have more free time than he does -- do you use it contributing more labor to the household than he does? Is the time you spend cooking, cleaning, grocery-shopping, etc., greater than his, or do you expect him to contribute 50% of the chores even if (and again, I'm just assuming this) his job takes up more time than yours?
This all becomes more of an issue with children, of course, as the household labor requirements rise exponentially, but I just thought I'd raise the issue that this would be even more of a problem if he treats your labor as a communal resource even as he treats his income as his alone.
posted by palliser at 11:12 AM on February 6, 2010
This all becomes more of an issue with children, of course, as the household labor requirements rise exponentially, but I just thought I'd raise the issue that this would be even more of a problem if he treats your labor as a communal resource even as he treats his income as his alone.
posted by palliser at 11:12 AM on February 6, 2010
1) You're not his wife.
2) He clearly doesn't expect the two of you to get married.
3) Why do you expect him to treat you like a wife, given 1 and 2?
posted by Jacqueline at 3:40 PM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
2) He clearly doesn't expect the two of you to get married.
3) Why do you expect him to treat you like a wife, given 1 and 2?
posted by Jacqueline at 3:40 PM on February 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
He's not generous, and he doesn't have to be. But you also don't have to like the fact that he's not generous, and you don't have to stay with him if you don't like it. I wouldn't like it either.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:13 PM on February 5, 2010 [13 favorites]