My Kid Is Getting Ready to Apply to College
February 3, 2010 2:56 PM Subscribe
My son will be applying to college next year, and I have a bunch of questions about Applying To College In Our Modern Life:
If my son wants to start out by taking one or two courses, does that mean necessarily that he has to go to a community (two-year) college? are there any decent four-year colleges that let you start out part-time? Does "matriculation" (I guess that means going for a degree?) mean full-time study?
My son is being advised, because of his ADHD diagnosis (he is currently in a special ed school) and his difficulty paying attention to a lot of material at once, to apply to community colleges so he can begin part-time. This seems to be what his school advises everyone like him.
However, he is very smart and very interested in learning. He took the PSAT and he scored 67 in reading comprehension I guess it's called? (the English one that's not writing), and 65 in composition (I assume these are the equivalent of 670 and 650 that we talked about "in my day"), and 55 in math. (550? He's getting tutoring now).
We're in New York City. Do you know if the CUNY four-year schools require you to sign up for a full schedule (4 courses, I guess that is?) in order to be a degree student?
I'm also wondering if anyone has any info about The New School - Lang I guess it's called, the undergraduate division. Is it a "good" school. (I got a Ph.D. from there in 1982, when there was no undergraduate division of the New School). Is it a reputable, whatever that means, undergraduate school? (I tend to think of the New School as a place where middle-aged ladies take continuing education courses, which is REALLY DUMB of me). And what is the difference between going for a bachelor's at Eugene Lang and going for one in the General Studies division of the New School, that I hear also grants bachelors' degrees.
How would Eugene Lang compare academically to, say, NYU?
I think my son would do better at a college with smaller classes. I think there might be something good about CCNY, for example, but wouldn't there be HUGE lectures for the first couple of years?
(My son might want to go away to school, but right now I'm focusing on the NYC schools to get an overview on this stuff.)
I'm really looking for any first-hand info about attending any of these colleges and what college is like these days. My kid is a good guitar player (rock) but hasn't been doing anythingi but studying and playing the guitar -- e.g. no "community service" or anything, that seems to be necessary these days to get into a school like NYU (is that correct?)
And hey, how about that SUNY Purchase? and SUNY New Paltz?
Just trying to get out of the dark here and learn a little. I'm sure whatever info or personal experiences anyone has had here with New York City (or other) colleges lately would be very helpful.
Sorry if this question has become too general. It accurately reflects my diffuse, meandering, yet angst-laden concerns.
If my son wants to start out by taking one or two courses, does that mean necessarily that he has to go to a community (two-year) college? are there any decent four-year colleges that let you start out part-time? Does "matriculation" (I guess that means going for a degree?) mean full-time study?
My son is being advised, because of his ADHD diagnosis (he is currently in a special ed school) and his difficulty paying attention to a lot of material at once, to apply to community colleges so he can begin part-time. This seems to be what his school advises everyone like him.
However, he is very smart and very interested in learning. He took the PSAT and he scored 67 in reading comprehension I guess it's called? (the English one that's not writing), and 65 in composition (I assume these are the equivalent of 670 and 650 that we talked about "in my day"), and 55 in math. (550? He's getting tutoring now).
We're in New York City. Do you know if the CUNY four-year schools require you to sign up for a full schedule (4 courses, I guess that is?) in order to be a degree student?
I'm also wondering if anyone has any info about The New School - Lang I guess it's called, the undergraduate division. Is it a "good" school. (I got a Ph.D. from there in 1982, when there was no undergraduate division of the New School). Is it a reputable, whatever that means, undergraduate school? (I tend to think of the New School as a place where middle-aged ladies take continuing education courses, which is REALLY DUMB of me). And what is the difference between going for a bachelor's at Eugene Lang and going for one in the General Studies division of the New School, that I hear also grants bachelors' degrees.
How would Eugene Lang compare academically to, say, NYU?
I think my son would do better at a college with smaller classes. I think there might be something good about CCNY, for example, but wouldn't there be HUGE lectures for the first couple of years?
(My son might want to go away to school, but right now I'm focusing on the NYC schools to get an overview on this stuff.)
I'm really looking for any first-hand info about attending any of these colleges and what college is like these days. My kid is a good guitar player (rock) but hasn't been doing anythingi but studying and playing the guitar -- e.g. no "community service" or anything, that seems to be necessary these days to get into a school like NYU (is that correct?)
And hey, how about that SUNY Purchase? and SUNY New Paltz?
Just trying to get out of the dark here and learn a little. I'm sure whatever info or personal experiences anyone has had here with New York City (or other) colleges lately would be very helpful.
Sorry if this question has become too general. It accurately reflects my diffuse, meandering, yet angst-laden concerns.
Plenty of smart people who are interested in learning start out at community colleges. It's a good way to ease yourself into the college environment and save money. It's relatively simple to transfer to a four year college when you're ready.
Honestly, I think your son might be better off trying college out at a CC (especially after his small class size special ed experience) and going part time like his advisor recommends.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:11 PM on February 3, 2010
Honestly, I think your son might be better off trying college out at a CC (especially after his small class size special ed experience) and going part time like his advisor recommends.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:11 PM on February 3, 2010
Your son sounds like he would be well served beginning at a smaller/two-year college and transferring if he decides he'd like to finish up later. Those kinds of schools are easier to get into and will let him figure some things out and/or get his feet wet, and transferring is much easier than the very demanding (and somewhat ridiculous) freshman admissions crush.
Starting with one or two classes at a time could be done by going part-time or by being a special student. Different universities have different requirements for whether special credits can be used towards a degree program, but generally they're easy to transfer. One of the hard things, though, is that at many universities the special students have last choice for sections, etc. Sections of popular classes may be closed before he gets to them. However, if he's continuing at his own pace, he might not need, say, Chemistry 101 at the same time that the freshmen chem majors might take it.
At my large public university, we accept transfer students with 24 credits or more, which is roughly the equivalent to two full-time semesters of study. however, some of those credits can be earned with things like equivalency exams or AP tests.
A lot of community colleges see kids like your son and have great support services available. They also have great options for extracurriculars and social activities. Plus, your son's in NYC, which is a great place to have access to some of the larger events that he might miss out on if he went to, say, a liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere.
I have ADD, but I don't have the same issues your son has. I just meander and get bored very easily :) I started at a small college and hated it, mostly because I had come from an urban high school that was larger and more exciting than the small college. But if I had been in a larger town with a higher-quality school, it might have been different. At any rate, I was really glad that I didn't get lost in the crush when I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do with myself. I picked myself up, transferred up here (this was over 10 years ago, but I'm still here, two degrees later) and enjoyed all of the perks of upper-level study without the hassle of getting lumped in with people who didn't care about the things I cared about. So if this sounds like something your son might do, I'm all for it.
Good luck!
posted by Madamina at 3:16 PM on February 3, 2010
Starting with one or two classes at a time could be done by going part-time or by being a special student. Different universities have different requirements for whether special credits can be used towards a degree program, but generally they're easy to transfer. One of the hard things, though, is that at many universities the special students have last choice for sections, etc. Sections of popular classes may be closed before he gets to them. However, if he's continuing at his own pace, he might not need, say, Chemistry 101 at the same time that the freshmen chem majors might take it.
At my large public university, we accept transfer students with 24 credits or more, which is roughly the equivalent to two full-time semesters of study. however, some of those credits can be earned with things like equivalency exams or AP tests.
A lot of community colleges see kids like your son and have great support services available. They also have great options for extracurriculars and social activities. Plus, your son's in NYC, which is a great place to have access to some of the larger events that he might miss out on if he went to, say, a liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere.
I have ADD, but I don't have the same issues your son has. I just meander and get bored very easily :) I started at a small college and hated it, mostly because I had come from an urban high school that was larger and more exciting than the small college. But if I had been in a larger town with a higher-quality school, it might have been different. At any rate, I was really glad that I didn't get lost in the crush when I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do with myself. I picked myself up, transferred up here (this was over 10 years ago, but I'm still here, two degrees later) and enjoyed all of the perks of upper-level study without the hassle of getting lumped in with people who didn't care about the things I cared about. So if this sounds like something your son might do, I'm all for it.
Good luck!
posted by Madamina at 3:16 PM on February 3, 2010
Many of the four year schools in Boston have the option of part-time study. I would imagine many of the New York schools also offer this with working adults, students who are parents, students working full-time, etc.
Nothing wrong with starting at a community college, either. My sister did an Associates at one, and it was the best thing for her.
posted by zizzle at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2010
Nothing wrong with starting at a community college, either. My sister did an Associates at one, and it was the best thing for her.
posted by zizzle at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2010
Well, this is where parents with questions start on many of your queries. Buy the book, it's worth it.
This description of the way your son is being treated because he has ADHD is confusing to me—clearly, he's a smart, motivated kid who tests well! I have no idea why advisers are telling you that he should therefore only look at community colleges. I suspect they're concerned that he will apply, be accepted and then drop out. (Colleges guard against their drop-out rate increasing zealously.)
This is a time for the two of you to have a very, very, very long ongoing discussion. There are tons of colleges in this country that have small class sizes, individual attention and great communities and aren't boring classroom lecture nightmare type of schools. From the other coast, Reed, and particularly Whitman, also Evergreen; in the middle there's Grinnell and others; on this coast there's at least a dozen small liberal arts schools.
I can pretty much tell you this: a great essay (WRITTEN BY YOUR CHILD! NOT AT ALL WRITTEN BY YOU!) about learning, and problem-solving, and making mistakes about schooling while having ADHD? That is a killer college essay for pretty much any small liberal arts school.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:19 PM on February 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
This description of the way your son is being treated because he has ADHD is confusing to me—clearly, he's a smart, motivated kid who tests well! I have no idea why advisers are telling you that he should therefore only look at community colleges. I suspect they're concerned that he will apply, be accepted and then drop out. (Colleges guard against their drop-out rate increasing zealously.)
This is a time for the two of you to have a very, very, very long ongoing discussion. There are tons of colleges in this country that have small class sizes, individual attention and great communities and aren't boring classroom lecture nightmare type of schools. From the other coast, Reed, and particularly Whitman, also Evergreen; in the middle there's Grinnell and others; on this coast there's at least a dozen small liberal arts schools.
I can pretty much tell you this: a great essay (WRITTEN BY YOUR CHILD! NOT AT ALL WRITTEN BY YOU!) about learning, and problem-solving, and making mistakes about schooling while having ADHD? That is a killer college essay for pretty much any small liberal arts school.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:19 PM on February 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Community colleges are a great place to start out and I have seen many students succeed by going this route. However I have heard from professors in different disciplines that these students tend to be under-prepared, but this may be an issue of confirmation bias.
posted by nestor_makhno at 3:21 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by nestor_makhno at 3:21 PM on February 3, 2010
Smaller liberal arts colleges (might be something to look into!) might help work out some kind of educational plan that would be tailored to your son. That's what they're there for -- to work specifically with each individual student to come up with an effective plan.
Because of the college-application craze/everyone applying to tons of colleges, an 1870 (about what your son's PSAT score would translate to) is not going to be a sure admission to NYU or similar universities. What it certainly indicates, though, is that your son should not be limiting his search to community colleges!
I had a friend from Kansas who really wanted to go to The New School, so it's at least got some national renown.
Either way, it sounds like looking into smaller schools might be a good option for your son.
On preview, I agree with everything RJ Reynolds says.
posted by elisabethjw at 3:25 PM on February 3, 2010
Because of the college-application craze/everyone applying to tons of colleges, an 1870 (about what your son's PSAT score would translate to) is not going to be a sure admission to NYU or similar universities. What it certainly indicates, though, is that your son should not be limiting his search to community colleges!
I had a friend from Kansas who really wanted to go to The New School, so it's at least got some national renown.
Either way, it sounds like looking into smaller schools might be a good option for your son.
On preview, I agree with everything RJ Reynolds says.
posted by elisabethjw at 3:25 PM on February 3, 2010
It sounds like you would benefit from a private college guidance counsellor, of whom there are many in NYC. One thing a specialist counsellor can help you with is finding nearby colleges and universities that meet your criteria, plans or preferences. These include schools with access courses, which might (or might not) be a good entry route to higher education for your son if you all think a full on four-year degree programme doesn't match his immediate needs. Marymount Manhattan has one. Hunter also has one if your son is currently in public school.
He does not need to go to a two year college and there are probably more four year colleges in NYC than you think there are - don't forget Fordham, Pace and Hofstra for example. If your son wants to start out taking one or two courses next year instead of or in addition to enrolling in an access course, he can do that at a lot of colleges in NYC in NYC and transfer those credits to another four year college at a later date. (I was able to take supplemental evening classes NYC colleges as a high school students and those credits transferred.)
I'm not sure what you're asking in regards to The New School, Lang, SUNY Purchase and SUNY New Paltz but they are all perfectly acceptable schools. A site like Peterson's can help you compare admissions and other info between colleges. Wikipedia can help you understand PSATs.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2010
He does not need to go to a two year college and there are probably more four year colleges in NYC than you think there are - don't forget Fordham, Pace and Hofstra for example. If your son wants to start out taking one or two courses next year instead of or in addition to enrolling in an access course, he can do that at a lot of colleges in NYC in NYC and transfer those credits to another four year college at a later date. (I was able to take supplemental evening classes NYC colleges as a high school students and those credits transferred.)
I'm not sure what you're asking in regards to The New School, Lang, SUNY Purchase and SUNY New Paltz but they are all perfectly acceptable schools. A site like Peterson's can help you compare admissions and other info between colleges. Wikipedia can help you understand PSATs.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2010
Your son is bright and motivated. If he wants to go to college, I'd suggest he apply to small liberal arts schools. Yes, that means leaving NYC for a few years, and that'll be sad for him, but he'll get a dramatically more personal education at a small school outside of the city.
I went to NYU and my sister went to Columbia, and I know people at most of the other universities in the city. Almost universally, they are not good environments for people who need extra attention. Your son is (or will be very soon) an adult, and the best thing for him is likely a place where he can separate from his family, but still get support from adults who will give him good advice. Look at some of the liberal arts schools others have suggested.
posted by decathecting at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2010
I went to NYU and my sister went to Columbia, and I know people at most of the other universities in the city. Almost universally, they are not good environments for people who need extra attention. Your son is (or will be very soon) an adult, and the best thing for him is likely a place where he can separate from his family, but still get support from adults who will give him good advice. Look at some of the liberal arts schools others have suggested.
posted by decathecting at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2010
I agree with the above posters in mentioning that a community/2 year college could be a really good place to start since they are often a good way to get small class sizes in first year classes. However, lots of 4 year colleges will allow students to attend part-time, ESPECIALLY if it is determined to be the right academic course because of a learning disability. Get in touch with the folks who help students with learning disabilities at some colleges you are interested in and see what they have to say. Like everyone has mentioned, small liberal arts schools often work really hard to find a good course-load fit, but even large 4 year public colleges do this kind of stuff all the time.
Some things to consider though if your son does decide to go the part-time school route: This could impact financial aid and health insurance coverage. If your son is covered under your health insurance, check to see if he can remain covered while going to school part-time. On my health insurance policy, dependents need to be enrolled in at least 12 credits to remain on the family policy, and this is common. Also, if you are applying for any financial aid, going part-time would impact your potential awards....just some things to consider
posted by mjcon at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2010
Some things to consider though if your son does decide to go the part-time school route: This could impact financial aid and health insurance coverage. If your son is covered under your health insurance, check to see if he can remain covered while going to school part-time. On my health insurance policy, dependents need to be enrolled in at least 12 credits to remain on the family policy, and this is common. Also, if you are applying for any financial aid, going part-time would impact your potential awards....just some things to consider
posted by mjcon at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2010
Your son's verbal scores are mid 90th percentile - very good. Writing, mid 70th. Source.
posted by shothotbot at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by shothotbot at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2010
1. Federal financial aid usually hinges on full-time enrollment. Other than that, it would probably be best to contact the individual schools. Depending on their selectivity, they should allow you do to it.
2. I would advise against Eugene Lang, only because they *seemed* more concerned with being hip and arty than giving a good education. I went for a visit a few years ago, and I only got a mediocre impression. I'm not sure a degree from there would mean much.
3. NYU, frankly, doesn't sound like a good bet to me. Your son's PSAT scores could be better (no offense; mine were almost exactly the same), and without having had any community service crap or anything like that they want to see...there's not a good chance he will get in (and I hate that they require that kind of stuff; I never did much of that either).
I would recommend SUNY or CUNY, in your situation (although I've heard Purchase is a free-for-all drug/art-type school....I have no idea, myself, though). And anyway, nothing wrong with community colleges. It will cost a ton less and a lot of them have articulation agreements (where if he gets a certain grade point average and fulfills certain requirements he can be automatically accepted into certain 4-year schools).
And, for god's sake, think about the tuition. Lang would have cost me about $50,000 a year had I been accepted—schools like that are unlikely to give out scholarships or otherwise free money.
Here are some 'review'-type sites, which really come in handy when you get sick of all the fluff and shiny pictures on the school websites (beware of the really colorful ones—they are covering up something, in my experience!):
Students' Review
A really crappy interface, but underneath it all, they tell it like it is.
Princeton Review
You can find Top-20 lists of things such as Best Financial Aid, Best Campus, Best Food, Worst So-and-So, etc., also short, heavily edited reviews of schools by students.
Unigo
Depending on the school, videos and pictures may be posted along with students' reviews.
College Prowler
This is my favorite one. It's organised, but not over-edited like Princeton Review's. It has reviews for different categories as well.
Good luck. It's a jungle out there. I did all this without my mom, guidance counselor, anyone, and now we owe...kind of a lot of money.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 4:11 PM on February 3, 2010
2. I would advise against Eugene Lang, only because they *seemed* more concerned with being hip and arty than giving a good education. I went for a visit a few years ago, and I only got a mediocre impression. I'm not sure a degree from there would mean much.
3. NYU, frankly, doesn't sound like a good bet to me. Your son's PSAT scores could be better (no offense; mine were almost exactly the same), and without having had any community service crap or anything like that they want to see...there's not a good chance he will get in (and I hate that they require that kind of stuff; I never did much of that either).
I would recommend SUNY or CUNY, in your situation (although I've heard Purchase is a free-for-all drug/art-type school....I have no idea, myself, though). And anyway, nothing wrong with community colleges. It will cost a ton less and a lot of them have articulation agreements (where if he gets a certain grade point average and fulfills certain requirements he can be automatically accepted into certain 4-year schools).
And, for god's sake, think about the tuition. Lang would have cost me about $50,000 a year had I been accepted—schools like that are unlikely to give out scholarships or otherwise free money.
Here are some 'review'-type sites, which really come in handy when you get sick of all the fluff and shiny pictures on the school websites (beware of the really colorful ones—they are covering up something, in my experience!):
Students' Review
A really crappy interface, but underneath it all, they tell it like it is.
Princeton Review
You can find Top-20 lists of things such as Best Financial Aid, Best Campus, Best Food, Worst So-and-So, etc., also short, heavily edited reviews of schools by students.
Unigo
Depending on the school, videos and pictures may be posted along with students' reviews.
College Prowler
This is my favorite one. It's organised, but not over-edited like Princeton Review's. It has reviews for different categories as well.
Good luck. It's a jungle out there. I did all this without my mom, guidance counselor, anyone, and now we owe...kind of a lot of money.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 4:11 PM on February 3, 2010
Response by poster: shothotbot, I'm sure that's a "typo" up there; it's math that's mid-70th.
These answers are SO helpful, really getting me thinking.
I would really like to answer this question because it goes to the heart of the matter:
"This description of the way your son is being treated because he has ADHD is confusing to me—clearly, he's a smart, motivated kid who tests well! I have no idea why advisers are telling you that he should therefore only look at community colleges."
Because he does very well in his (private but state-funded) special ed school WITH accomodations. That means things like, of course, extra time on tests, but also, if he has trouble doing an essay on a book, well, they'll give him another book. Or extra weeks. Or whatever. Which I don't think would be true in college!
(One personal note: I did very well in a huge public high school in NYC, and I went to Vassar for college, and I WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY managed to stay in there, "obtaining" a C+ average and being put on academic probation at one point, so I guess I'm particularly angstful about my son heading off to a "good" college, thinking it'll be fine, and then being overwhelmed with a less structured academic setting (at least Vassar in the 70's was a hell of lot less structured than my public high school).
My son does well on the "grading curve" of his school. They teach to the NY State Regents Exams (again, giving extra time on the tests, they read the questions to the kids out loud etc. = "accomodations"), VERY Structured expectations, and he gets special homework periods and MUCh support.
His greatest difficulty is sitting alone with a book or his laptop and focusing and getting the reading and writing done. He has a miniscule attention span. Once he gets going, however, he does VERY well. (He just took the NY State 11th grade English Regents Exam last week and yesterday informed me that he got 100! I was very proud of him and also it was sort of amazing because this required essays on books such as the Great Gatsby)
So -- blah blah, longwinded, sorry ---- the problem is, you go to a college, you immediately get homework assignments for 4 courses and you have to organize it -- what do you have to do for each course? where is the PAPER I wrote that on?? oh god I lost it! can I call someone? but I can't find the class list!! and which subject do I start with? and this book is boring! (after one page). He loves to learn but particularly in response to an exciting, funny teacher, when he can verbally participate and make jokes with the teacher. In a lecture I think he would start to draw cartoons and space out.
So that's why I'm afraid of him getting "lost" somewhere where there is not enough attention and teachers who think he's great and will support him and learn his name, even, maybe.
The idea of the special college advisor is a great one too, thank you!!
posted by DMelanogaster at 4:31 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
These answers are SO helpful, really getting me thinking.
I would really like to answer this question because it goes to the heart of the matter:
"This description of the way your son is being treated because he has ADHD is confusing to me—clearly, he's a smart, motivated kid who tests well! I have no idea why advisers are telling you that he should therefore only look at community colleges."
Because he does very well in his (private but state-funded) special ed school WITH accomodations. That means things like, of course, extra time on tests, but also, if he has trouble doing an essay on a book, well, they'll give him another book. Or extra weeks. Or whatever. Which I don't think would be true in college!
(One personal note: I did very well in a huge public high school in NYC, and I went to Vassar for college, and I WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY managed to stay in there, "obtaining" a C+ average and being put on academic probation at one point, so I guess I'm particularly angstful about my son heading off to a "good" college, thinking it'll be fine, and then being overwhelmed with a less structured academic setting (at least Vassar in the 70's was a hell of lot less structured than my public high school).
My son does well on the "grading curve" of his school. They teach to the NY State Regents Exams (again, giving extra time on the tests, they read the questions to the kids out loud etc. = "accomodations"), VERY Structured expectations, and he gets special homework periods and MUCh support.
His greatest difficulty is sitting alone with a book or his laptop and focusing and getting the reading and writing done. He has a miniscule attention span. Once he gets going, however, he does VERY well. (He just took the NY State 11th grade English Regents Exam last week and yesterday informed me that he got 100! I was very proud of him and also it was sort of amazing because this required essays on books such as the Great Gatsby)
So -- blah blah, longwinded, sorry ---- the problem is, you go to a college, you immediately get homework assignments for 4 courses and you have to organize it -- what do you have to do for each course? where is the PAPER I wrote that on?? oh god I lost it! can I call someone? but I can't find the class list!! and which subject do I start with? and this book is boring! (after one page). He loves to learn but particularly in response to an exciting, funny teacher, when he can verbally participate and make jokes with the teacher. In a lecture I think he would start to draw cartoons and space out.
So that's why I'm afraid of him getting "lost" somewhere where there is not enough attention and teachers who think he's great and will support him and learn his name, even, maybe.
The idea of the special college advisor is a great one too, thank you!!
posted by DMelanogaster at 4:31 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
shothotbot, I'm sure that's a "typo" up there; it's math that's mid-70th.
Quite right, apologies.
posted by shothotbot at 4:43 PM on February 3, 2010
Quite right, apologies.
posted by shothotbot at 4:43 PM on February 3, 2010
Because he does very well in his (private but state-funded) special ed school WITH accomodations. That means things like, of course, extra time on tests, but also, if he has trouble doing an essay on a book, well, they'll give him another book. Or extra weeks. Or whatever. Which I don't think would be true in college!
This isn't true at all!! My school (which is a large public school in Florida, but I can guarantee you that every decent college will have this- and, through the Americans With Disabilities Act, are required to, as I understand) offers a ton of accommodations. There's actually a learning center for students with documented disabilities where they can get extra help and free tutoring, and as long as they have proper documentation (a letter from the center, I think, within the first week of school) they can get the accommodations they need. I'm not so sure that a small LAC will have a learning center, per se, but I believe they are required to provide accommodations regardless. I suggest contacting whoever is in charge of these things at any school that your son is interested in and seeing what they can do for him- he may even be able to take a full course load.
posted by kro at 5:19 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
This isn't true at all!! My school (which is a large public school in Florida, but I can guarantee you that every decent college will have this- and, through the Americans With Disabilities Act, are required to, as I understand) offers a ton of accommodations. There's actually a learning center for students with documented disabilities where they can get extra help and free tutoring, and as long as they have proper documentation (a letter from the center, I think, within the first week of school) they can get the accommodations they need. I'm not so sure that a small LAC will have a learning center, per se, but I believe they are required to provide accommodations regardless. I suggest contacting whoever is in charge of these things at any school that your son is interested in and seeing what they can do for him- he may even be able to take a full course load.
posted by kro at 5:19 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think a community college would be an excellent transition to the college experience for someone like him. You are right, college isn't going to give him nearly the support he's getting now. But a community college, at least the ones I've been to, are more of a hybrid between the full on college experience and high school. More like 5th and 6th year high school rather than the far more cold realities of college/university.
You might look into finding some kind of program or class or therapist or something that will help train him to be better at self-direction. That's a hard hurdle for many non-adhd students to make, and is only harder for the ahdh student.
Not sure what medical treatment he is using, but it sounds like he would benefit from psychological treatment/training/learning. Literally learning better ways to think and organize his thoughts and habits. Because that is just as important, if not more, than medical treatment. Without it, someone with adhd just becomes a more focused procrastinator. I am speaking from my own experience and observations.
Because at some point, he is going to have to be better at self direction in order to be successful. Unless you or he can figure out a way to guarantee he will have an executive assistant all his life/career.
posted by gjc at 5:23 PM on February 3, 2010
You might look into finding some kind of program or class or therapist or something that will help train him to be better at self-direction. That's a hard hurdle for many non-adhd students to make, and is only harder for the ahdh student.
Not sure what medical treatment he is using, but it sounds like he would benefit from psychological treatment/training/learning. Literally learning better ways to think and organize his thoughts and habits. Because that is just as important, if not more, than medical treatment. Without it, someone with adhd just becomes a more focused procrastinator. I am speaking from my own experience and observations.
Because at some point, he is going to have to be better at self direction in order to be successful. Unless you or he can figure out a way to guarantee he will have an executive assistant all his life/career.
posted by gjc at 5:23 PM on February 3, 2010
I'm a sophomore at a small liberal arts college in Western Mass, and I have to disagree with the people recommending them to you and your son above. If your son was dead set on going to one, maybe, but you haven't said much about what he wants from a school. That's the conversation you should be having first. College is all about taking responsibility and learning how to function as an adult, on your own. In my opinion, he should be leading the college search- and to be honest, your question makes it seem like he isn't giving any input at all.
posted by MadamM at 5:49 PM on February 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by MadamM at 5:49 PM on February 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Seconding what kro said, any school will be required to offer reasonable accommodations. But a larger school will likely have a larger, more institutionalized way of dealing with it.
posted by nestor_makhno at 6:03 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by nestor_makhno at 6:03 PM on February 3, 2010
As a few people have pointed out, most colleges now have a disability services office, and you and your son should talk to the person who runs it to see what kind of accommodations will be available. Press for details.
At my (large state) school, for example, extra time on exams and/or quiet rooms to take exams in are available to people with properly documented disabilities -- in theory. In practice, it rarely works that way. Our disabilities office has a staff that will proctor extra-time exams, but they have a small space and only a few people who work there. Since most courses give midterms and finals during the same weeks, the office's exam slots fill up very quickly. If you don't ask two months ahead of time, you're usually out of luck. And for the instructor in the classroom, it's rarely possible to prolong an exam after the scheduled time, since on our crowded campus, there's always another class coming in as soon as one finishes. In my experience, students at my school with documented ADHD only get the accommodations they're entitled to on about a quarter of their exams, because we have neither the staff nor the space to do more. I'm sure other schools are better at this, but you have to ask to find out.
The other thing -- time-and-a-half on exams is the usual ADHD accommodation. I don't think you'll find many schools/professors willing to give someone extra weeks on assignments, or modify assignments entirely for one student. But who knows? This too is something to ask the campus disabilities office about.
posted by philokalia at 6:09 PM on February 3, 2010
At my (large state) school, for example, extra time on exams and/or quiet rooms to take exams in are available to people with properly documented disabilities -- in theory. In practice, it rarely works that way. Our disabilities office has a staff that will proctor extra-time exams, but they have a small space and only a few people who work there. Since most courses give midterms and finals during the same weeks, the office's exam slots fill up very quickly. If you don't ask two months ahead of time, you're usually out of luck. And for the instructor in the classroom, it's rarely possible to prolong an exam after the scheduled time, since on our crowded campus, there's always another class coming in as soon as one finishes. In my experience, students at my school with documented ADHD only get the accommodations they're entitled to on about a quarter of their exams, because we have neither the staff nor the space to do more. I'm sure other schools are better at this, but you have to ask to find out.
The other thing -- time-and-a-half on exams is the usual ADHD accommodation. I don't think you'll find many schools/professors willing to give someone extra weeks on assignments, or modify assignments entirely for one student. But who knows? This too is something to ask the campus disabilities office about.
posted by philokalia at 6:09 PM on February 3, 2010
There is really no shame in starting out, even part time, at a community college. Are you dead-set against it? Is he?
He can transfer to a 4 year university if it works out, although (like most changes) the difference in institutions will take some getting used to.
posted by asciident at 6:20 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
He can transfer to a 4 year university if it works out, although (like most changes) the difference in institutions will take some getting used to.
posted by asciident at 6:20 PM on February 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
First, kro is right--your son should register with the disability office of any university or college he attends. They will often offer accommodations such as a decreased course load while still allowing him to have full time status.
Now, most schools will allow students to take a part-time course load while enrolled in a degree program. However, in order to qualify for most types of aid, as well as student health insurance (or, usually, health insurance under parents), he'll need to maintain at least half-time, if not full-time status. This is why registering as a part-time student isn't such a great idea.
About Lang: both my sister and one of my close friends graduated from there. By all accounts, it's an excellent school and a great place to have an undergraduate experience. Are the kids there hipsters? Well, sure--but most expensive liberal arts schools in cities are. As a Lang student, most of his classmates will be having immersive first-year experiences: dorming away from home for the first time. I've heard that, at the New School, most students are continuing studies students (adult learners). I've also heard less than stellar things about the academics, mostly from the people I know who graduated from Lang.
But Lang's expensive. Really, really expensive. NYU is pretty expensive, too, particularly when most New York residents can attend a CUNY or SUNY for dirt cheap. And the CUNYs are pretty terrific schools academically. I think they make more sense if he may want to transfer later, or doesn't want the dorming experience.
But, really, MadamM is right. We don't know him or what's important to him. I encourage you to ask him what he really wants his college experience to look like and, if financial feasible, for you to try to match those goals. I know that's scary; I know you don't want him to crash and burn. But I taught college and it's really a time when students need to be self-directed. If they aren't, they often end up floundering--scraping by, flunking out. I've seen it happen to enough students and peers to say that with confidence.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:22 PM on February 3, 2010
Now, most schools will allow students to take a part-time course load while enrolled in a degree program. However, in order to qualify for most types of aid, as well as student health insurance (or, usually, health insurance under parents), he'll need to maintain at least half-time, if not full-time status. This is why registering as a part-time student isn't such a great idea.
About Lang: both my sister and one of my close friends graduated from there. By all accounts, it's an excellent school and a great place to have an undergraduate experience. Are the kids there hipsters? Well, sure--but most expensive liberal arts schools in cities are. As a Lang student, most of his classmates will be having immersive first-year experiences: dorming away from home for the first time. I've heard that, at the New School, most students are continuing studies students (adult learners). I've also heard less than stellar things about the academics, mostly from the people I know who graduated from Lang.
But Lang's expensive. Really, really expensive. NYU is pretty expensive, too, particularly when most New York residents can attend a CUNY or SUNY for dirt cheap. And the CUNYs are pretty terrific schools academically. I think they make more sense if he may want to transfer later, or doesn't want the dorming experience.
But, really, MadamM is right. We don't know him or what's important to him. I encourage you to ask him what he really wants his college experience to look like and, if financial feasible, for you to try to match those goals. I know that's scary; I know you don't want him to crash and burn. But I taught college and it's really a time when students need to be self-directed. If they aren't, they often end up floundering--scraping by, flunking out. I've seen it happen to enough students and peers to say that with confidence.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:22 PM on February 3, 2010
(Really, had I been a New York resident I would have been thrilled to go to one of the CUNY's--probably Hunter, I applied and got in but tuition was high for out-of-staters--or SUNYs. Probably wouldn't be mired in undergraduate debt I'd been able to. Ah well.)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:25 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:25 PM on February 3, 2010
2. I would advise against Eugene Lang, only because they *seemed* more concerned with being hip and arty than giving a good education. I went for a visit a few years ago, and I only got a mediocre impression. I'm not sure a degree from there would mean much.
Oh, and one last thing: this is categorically not true. My friend, who concentrated in writing at Lang, had terrific internship opportunities--working at a small press--that helped him move pretty seamlessly and effortlessly into a career. He took fiction writing classes with big-name writers. Universities set in Manhattan can attract some really impressive talent in their faculty. Don't know if that was worth the $80,000 worth of debt he's in, but it's not a meaningless degree in any way you slice it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:28 PM on February 3, 2010
Oh, and one last thing: this is categorically not true. My friend, who concentrated in writing at Lang, had terrific internship opportunities--working at a small press--that helped him move pretty seamlessly and effortlessly into a career. He took fiction writing classes with big-name writers. Universities set in Manhattan can attract some really impressive talent in their faculty. Don't know if that was worth the $80,000 worth of debt he's in, but it's not a meaningless degree in any way you slice it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:28 PM on February 3, 2010
Community colleges are a great place to start out and I have seen many students succeed by going this route. However I have heard from professors in different disciplines that these students tend to be under-prepared, but this may be an issue of confirmation bias.
Highly dependent on the colleges and the disciplines in question. Pure anecdote: I recently transferred from CC to landscape architecture at a UC campus, and am presently bored to tears. My CC classes were just as rigorous, if not more so. They were also smaller and more personal generally, and even the larger lecture/lab classes had labs taught by the professor, not a TA.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:33 PM on February 3, 2010
Highly dependent on the colleges and the disciplines in question. Pure anecdote: I recently transferred from CC to landscape architecture at a UC campus, and am presently bored to tears. My CC classes were just as rigorous, if not more so. They were also smaller and more personal generally, and even the larger lecture/lab classes had labs taught by the professor, not a TA.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:33 PM on February 3, 2010
Nyc-centric answer:
When I was getting back into school (finished at Hunter) I had to go to BMCC to bring the old GPA up a bit before Hunter would have me. I had a great experience there, and stayed an extra semester to finish up my language courses. Hunter was great as well, so I'd say take a good look at what the CUNY system has to offer for students like your son. If he finds what he is looking for the bang for your buck, as a city resident, simply can't be beat.
posted by vrakatar at 7:19 PM on February 3, 2010
When I was getting back into school (finished at Hunter) I had to go to BMCC to bring the old GPA up a bit before Hunter would have me. I had a great experience there, and stayed an extra semester to finish up my language courses. Hunter was great as well, so I'd say take a good look at what the CUNY system has to offer for students like your son. If he finds what he is looking for the bang for your buck, as a city resident, simply can't be beat.
posted by vrakatar at 7:19 PM on February 3, 2010
I am a first-year student at Herkimer Community College. I grew up near SUNY Oswego and Onondaga Community College. I can't help with any area-specific stuff (I stay as far away from NYC as I can without leaving the state), but I can tell you that Purchase is a good school but a little tough to get into.
Going to a community college part-time might be a good idea. He must take 12 credit hours to be a full-time student. He can go part-time and still be enrolled to get a degree, though it may take longer than two years unless he takes summer/winter classes. Most classes are 3 credits, unless they have a lab (4 credits) or are something silly like physical education (1 credit). That's four 3-credit classes to be a full-time student, three if one of them is a lab class such as a science.
All of the schools I checked out when I was applying had a disability statement in their student code, as well as disability offices. Your son can see these people and get any modifications to his tests that he needs, as well as tutoring to help him focus and get his work done. These people deal with lots of people in similar situations and are VERY nice and helpful, and they know how to work with the teachers to get him the help he needs to be successful. I will say that if you want him to have the best experience, look for a small school with a reputable disability centre to get help. A smaller school will mean it's easier to speak one-on-one with his professors, and get more individual help all around.
As far as schools, SUNY is the way to go, period, if you're in New York State. Anything else is going to charge an arm and a leg (possibly a kidney on the side). Those that don't won't transfer, are huge schools, or might not be accredited.
As a CC student in CNY, I can say this: In two semesters, I have only had one class in a lecture hall, and it was ~20 students. Most of my classes are 10-15 students, and in normal classrooms. It makes for a MUCH more relaxed learning environment, and I get to know my professors very well. I'm a good, independent student, and I love the fact that I can show up at my prof's office a little bit before class and ask about anything that I need clarified for me.
CCs are cutting back on who they admit, but as long as he graduated with a legitimate passing average (> 65 -- we had a lot of students at Herkimer who were pushed out of NYC high schools with diplomas despite not getting this due to the number of people they have to serve), he can get in upstate. If you're willing to check out upstate, apply as early as possible for housing, FAFSA, etc. I applied in October, which may have been a little overboard, but I got everything I wanted with no trouble.
As far as being in school and succeeding, he needs to: ask for help when he needs it, GO TO HIS PROFESSOR'S OFFICE HOURS, find out about tutoring/disability help, and make sure he puts the time into his work.
Feel free to MeMail me if you have any more specific questions, I'm sort of skimming in order to keep this short. Best of luck to you and your son!
posted by iarerach at 7:20 PM on February 3, 2010
Going to a community college part-time might be a good idea. He must take 12 credit hours to be a full-time student. He can go part-time and still be enrolled to get a degree, though it may take longer than two years unless he takes summer/winter classes. Most classes are 3 credits, unless they have a lab (4 credits) or are something silly like physical education (1 credit). That's four 3-credit classes to be a full-time student, three if one of them is a lab class such as a science.
All of the schools I checked out when I was applying had a disability statement in their student code, as well as disability offices. Your son can see these people and get any modifications to his tests that he needs, as well as tutoring to help him focus and get his work done. These people deal with lots of people in similar situations and are VERY nice and helpful, and they know how to work with the teachers to get him the help he needs to be successful. I will say that if you want him to have the best experience, look for a small school with a reputable disability centre to get help. A smaller school will mean it's easier to speak one-on-one with his professors, and get more individual help all around.
As far as schools, SUNY is the way to go, period, if you're in New York State. Anything else is going to charge an arm and a leg (possibly a kidney on the side). Those that don't won't transfer, are huge schools, or might not be accredited.
As a CC student in CNY, I can say this: In two semesters, I have only had one class in a lecture hall, and it was ~20 students. Most of my classes are 10-15 students, and in normal classrooms. It makes for a MUCH more relaxed learning environment, and I get to know my professors very well. I'm a good, independent student, and I love the fact that I can show up at my prof's office a little bit before class and ask about anything that I need clarified for me.
CCs are cutting back on who they admit, but as long as he graduated with a legitimate passing average (> 65 -- we had a lot of students at Herkimer who were pushed out of NYC high schools with diplomas despite not getting this due to the number of people they have to serve), he can get in upstate. If you're willing to check out upstate, apply as early as possible for housing, FAFSA, etc. I applied in October, which may have been a little overboard, but I got everything I wanted with no trouble.
As far as being in school and succeeding, he needs to: ask for help when he needs it, GO TO HIS PROFESSOR'S OFFICE HOURS, find out about tutoring/disability help, and make sure he puts the time into his work.
Feel free to MeMail me if you have any more specific questions, I'm sort of skimming in order to keep this short. Best of luck to you and your son!
posted by iarerach at 7:20 PM on February 3, 2010
Based on our experience with community colleges in California and a quite small liberal arts school on the East Coast:
-Community college classes are LARGE - budget cuts have hit hard and people who can't afford four year schools or are retraining are filling up the classes.
-The liberal arts school had an maximum class size of 20 for most course, actual enrollment was often less.
-Our CC had a very good disability office. The LA college primarily dealt with ADHD and dyslexia and wasn't as well set up to handle anything else.
-Teachers at both schools were very accomodating if your student goes in before they miss the deadline and explain what is happening. Having a copy of their accomodations to share with the teacher is important and may be the student's responsibility.
-Some schools will permit a lighter class load but still have full time status/priviledges (esp vis a vis health insurance) as an accomodation. At our CC's that is very easy. At this particular LA college, the minimum was 3 courses (average was 4).
- One really big factor is how well your son understands his own disability and is willing and able to advocate for himself when he needs help. If he won't go on his own to the counseling center or tutoring program when he needs help, he is going to have a much harder time.
posted by metahawk at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2010
-Community college classes are LARGE - budget cuts have hit hard and people who can't afford four year schools or are retraining are filling up the classes.
-The liberal arts school had an maximum class size of 20 for most course, actual enrollment was often less.
-Our CC had a very good disability office. The LA college primarily dealt with ADHD and dyslexia and wasn't as well set up to handle anything else.
-Teachers at both schools were very accomodating if your student goes in before they miss the deadline and explain what is happening. Having a copy of their accomodations to share with the teacher is important and may be the student's responsibility.
-Some schools will permit a lighter class load but still have full time status/priviledges (esp vis a vis health insurance) as an accomodation. At our CC's that is very easy. At this particular LA college, the minimum was 3 courses (average was 4).
- One really big factor is how well your son understands his own disability and is willing and able to advocate for himself when he needs help. If he won't go on his own to the counseling center or tutoring program when he needs help, he is going to have a much harder time.
posted by metahawk at 7:39 PM on February 3, 2010
DMelanogaster: the problem is, you go to a college, you immediately get homework assignments for 4 courses and you have to organize it -- what do you have to do for each course? where is the PAPER I wrote that on?? oh god I lost it! can I call someone? but I can't find the class list!! and which subject do I start with? and this book is boring! (after one page)
I really think you need a college advisor who's stock answer for dealing whith these issues is not "community college." I think you should ask this private college counsellor to specifically point you to colleges that have specialised support systems for kids with ADHD - Marymount cannot be the only one, but since I don't have a college-aged kid, it's the only one I know of. It just sounds like he would benefit from the learning and information management skills involved in a programme like that.
I don't know; maybe every school with an assisted learning center and a sound accommodations policy can provide that, but I would want guidance on this question from someone who's taken a lot of kids through this process.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2010
I really think you need a college advisor who's stock answer for dealing whith these issues is not "community college." I think you should ask this private college counsellor to specifically point you to colleges that have specialised support systems for kids with ADHD - Marymount cannot be the only one, but since I don't have a college-aged kid, it's the only one I know of. It just sounds like he would benefit from the learning and information management skills involved in a programme like that.
I don't know; maybe every school with an assisted learning center and a sound accommodations policy can provide that, but I would want guidance on this question from someone who's taken a lot of kids through this process.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2010
A number of SUNY schools are very excellent universities. Don't knock them because they are "community."
posted by joshu at 11:55 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by joshu at 11:55 PM on February 3, 2010
I'm hearing 2 related but distinct concerns in your original posting:
a) How your son can cope with the new academic environment of college when he faces some challenges based on his diagnosis.
b) How your son can experience the social environment of "college life," with all its pleasures and opportunities.
Again, related but distinct concerns, each with its own course of action:
a) Start slow; live at home; take 1-2 courses per term to start out, preferably some place where the stakes (financially and reputation-wise) will be manageable if the transition proves rocky at first, which may be likely, since as you point out, the expectations for college are different, even with support services, etc., and can be demanding, especially around writing and reading assignments, things that aren't your son's strengths, at least yet; with this priority in mind, a local community college makes sense on a number of levels.
b) Make a break and establish himself on his own, as a young adult; find an environment where he can connect with like-minded peers, preferably around the sorts of obvious talents he possesses; probably someplace with a traditional college campus feel, with social activities/events where he can mingle and people can get to know him; someplace he can feel a part of, where other students and faculty will reach out and pay attention to him; with this priority in mind, some of the more "elite" (and pricy) liberal arts colleges might fit the bill.
My point here is that these priorities do differ in important ways. For instance, you asked about the option for your son to take fewer than the typical 4-5 courses per semester. Most campuses, even elite ones, don't prohibit this option automatically, but in many cases, full-time enrollment *is* necessary to live in the dormitories and participate in the social life there.
Like others above have mentioned, you'll want to get your son's input on any college-related decisions. From an outsider's perspective, I'd consider breaking the high-school-college transition down into the phases a & b, and approach them in that sequence. Once your son's demonstrated he's got the first under control (no small feat, btw, even for students without your son's diagnosis), then he'll be in a better position to pursue the second, which for many students can be quite enjoyable. Best of luck to him (and you)!
posted by 5Q7 at 12:12 AM on February 4, 2010
a) How your son can cope with the new academic environment of college when he faces some challenges based on his diagnosis.
b) How your son can experience the social environment of "college life," with all its pleasures and opportunities.
Again, related but distinct concerns, each with its own course of action:
a) Start slow; live at home; take 1-2 courses per term to start out, preferably some place where the stakes (financially and reputation-wise) will be manageable if the transition proves rocky at first, which may be likely, since as you point out, the expectations for college are different, even with support services, etc., and can be demanding, especially around writing and reading assignments, things that aren't your son's strengths, at least yet; with this priority in mind, a local community college makes sense on a number of levels.
b) Make a break and establish himself on his own, as a young adult; find an environment where he can connect with like-minded peers, preferably around the sorts of obvious talents he possesses; probably someplace with a traditional college campus feel, with social activities/events where he can mingle and people can get to know him; someplace he can feel a part of, where other students and faculty will reach out and pay attention to him; with this priority in mind, some of the more "elite" (and pricy) liberal arts colleges might fit the bill.
My point here is that these priorities do differ in important ways. For instance, you asked about the option for your son to take fewer than the typical 4-5 courses per semester. Most campuses, even elite ones, don't prohibit this option automatically, but in many cases, full-time enrollment *is* necessary to live in the dormitories and participate in the social life there.
Like others above have mentioned, you'll want to get your son's input on any college-related decisions. From an outsider's perspective, I'd consider breaking the high-school-college transition down into the phases a & b, and approach them in that sequence. Once your son's demonstrated he's got the first under control (no small feat, btw, even for students without your son's diagnosis), then he'll be in a better position to pursue the second, which for many students can be quite enjoyable. Best of luck to him (and you)!
posted by 5Q7 at 12:12 AM on February 4, 2010
Response by poster: "As far as schools, SUNY is the way to go, period, if you're in New York State. Anything else is going to charge an arm and a leg (possibly a kidney on the side)."
It's true about the money, but I can't say I regret having gone to Vassar instead of, say, Stony Brook, where I was accepted. I believe that having Vassar on my transcript has opened a lot of doors for me. Even with my lousy grade point average (in "those days" nobody put their GPA on their transcript -- thank god)
Also it wasn't my money then. And it cost $3000 for tuition and room and board. (of course salaries were proportionally low).
But still. Vassar has been a nice "brand" to be attached to. Not to mention that the level of education was very high, and the classes were small, and everybody knew everybody, and I enjoyed sipping demi-tasse after dinner in the Victorian parlors.
But that was then.
posted by DMelanogaster at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2010
It's true about the money, but I can't say I regret having gone to Vassar instead of, say, Stony Brook, where I was accepted. I believe that having Vassar on my transcript has opened a lot of doors for me. Even with my lousy grade point average (in "those days" nobody put their GPA on their transcript -- thank god)
Also it wasn't my money then. And it cost $3000 for tuition and room and board. (of course salaries were proportionally low).
But still. Vassar has been a nice "brand" to be attached to. Not to mention that the level of education was very high, and the classes were small, and everybody knew everybody, and I enjoyed sipping demi-tasse after dinner in the Victorian parlors.
But that was then.
posted by DMelanogaster at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2010
But still. Vassar has been a nice "brand" to be attached to.
The SUNYs have good names, especially in particular fields--the level of education will be high there. These aren't stereotypical junior colleges we're talking about. And student debt is an entirely different beast than what it once was--tuition inflation has not been proportional to salaries. Remember that there are always transfer options if your son decides he wants to go to a bigger name school someday--an old roommate of mine transferred from SUNY Binghamton to Cornell after her first year (I believe they have some sort of reciprocal agreement? I don't know the details but it might be worth looking into).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:58 AM on February 4, 2010
The SUNYs have good names, especially in particular fields--the level of education will be high there. These aren't stereotypical junior colleges we're talking about. And student debt is an entirely different beast than what it once was--tuition inflation has not been proportional to salaries. Remember that there are always transfer options if your son decides he wants to go to a bigger name school someday--an old roommate of mine transferred from SUNY Binghamton to Cornell after her first year (I believe they have some sort of reciprocal agreement? I don't know the details but it might be worth looking into).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:58 AM on February 4, 2010
My SO is a former Lang student and a current volunteer college counselor, here's what she has to say:
Most colleges (including private and four-year) do allow part-time study. One major difference to consider is price: tuition is usually a flat fee for a full-time credit load, and a per-credit fee for part time. This can be important, because often colleges prioritize financial aid for full-time students, and part-time students may get none. (Depends how rich the school is.) If cost is an issue, a school at the community-college level could be advantageous for its accessibility (CUNY 2-years accept all graduates of NYC high schools) and its low cost. Perhaps your school's counselors are suggesting this as the lowest-possible-cost way for him to try college -- if he needs a break or the place isn't a great fit, he'll lose less. Financial stress only makes college harder for students facing personal challenges, so it's worth considering.
On the application, they usually ask you if you expect to be a full-time student or not. It may be worth calling around the Admissions offices to find out what weight the course-load has for acceptance and financial aid. Do they try to fill the class first with full-time students, and then admit part-timers?
Mostly, no one can say what on your record does or doesn't get you admitted. It is a secret recipe that keeps the fancy colleges in power. CUNY is an exception -- they post their grid of admissions statistics, and I've heard from officials there that it holds pretty true. A lot of the rest of it is really based on school characteristics. A place like NYU probably puts more emphasis on your gleaming resume. Eugene Lang probably puts more emphasis on your essay and interview.
I don't have experience to answer the question about CCNY class size, but their website claims an average of 25. My guess is he's more likely to get the massive lectures at NYU, where half the freshmen are taking Psych 101, but that's just my conjecture. Most of the CUNY schools, individually, are smallish operations.
I am a former Eugene Lang student. The significant difference between degrees at Lang and the New School proper is atmosphere. Lang is big on identity, and attracts a lot of students and faculty who are passionate about political causes and who require a non-traditional flavor. Practically speaking, that means all classes are seminars. Often, the community created by this atmosphere is worth the price of admission, but it is also not everyone's cup of tea. Lang freshmen are more likely to be 18-year-olds than the New School division's students, which is often referred to as "the adult division". That should make them very kindly to part-timers, however. The college and the whole university are experiencing a lot of growth right now, some of which is restrictive for the students -- they're running out of space, for instance. And they still don't boast much of a library -- we got access to NYU's instead.
Compared to NYU, Lang classes are all discussion-based, and the subjects are less traditional. Meaning the classes are more specific, sometimes in oddball subjects rather than 101-style lectures and bureaucracy. You get to be more creative with your class load, basically taking whatever you want, and hardly required to take classes you wish you didn't. Up until about 4 years ago they didn't even use the term "major", they so wanted to encourage your special snowflake well-rounded curriculum. The academics demand a lot of reading and writing, so your son may want to evaluate whether that would work well for him. If it does, he probably wouldn't find the general schoolwork very difficult. And again, I'd recommend a conversation with the Admissions office, who'd be happy to describe the place as it currently is. (I was there 5 years ago.) There are some really helpful people hidden away inside this whole process.
posted by greenland at 11:43 AM on February 4, 2010
Most colleges (including private and four-year) do allow part-time study. One major difference to consider is price: tuition is usually a flat fee for a full-time credit load, and a per-credit fee for part time. This can be important, because often colleges prioritize financial aid for full-time students, and part-time students may get none. (Depends how rich the school is.) If cost is an issue, a school at the community-college level could be advantageous for its accessibility (CUNY 2-years accept all graduates of NYC high schools) and its low cost. Perhaps your school's counselors are suggesting this as the lowest-possible-cost way for him to try college -- if he needs a break or the place isn't a great fit, he'll lose less. Financial stress only makes college harder for students facing personal challenges, so it's worth considering.
On the application, they usually ask you if you expect to be a full-time student or not. It may be worth calling around the Admissions offices to find out what weight the course-load has for acceptance and financial aid. Do they try to fill the class first with full-time students, and then admit part-timers?
Mostly, no one can say what on your record does or doesn't get you admitted. It is a secret recipe that keeps the fancy colleges in power. CUNY is an exception -- they post their grid of admissions statistics, and I've heard from officials there that it holds pretty true. A lot of the rest of it is really based on school characteristics. A place like NYU probably puts more emphasis on your gleaming resume. Eugene Lang probably puts more emphasis on your essay and interview.
I don't have experience to answer the question about CCNY class size, but their website claims an average of 25. My guess is he's more likely to get the massive lectures at NYU, where half the freshmen are taking Psych 101, but that's just my conjecture. Most of the CUNY schools, individually, are smallish operations.
I am a former Eugene Lang student. The significant difference between degrees at Lang and the New School proper is atmosphere. Lang is big on identity, and attracts a lot of students and faculty who are passionate about political causes and who require a non-traditional flavor. Practically speaking, that means all classes are seminars. Often, the community created by this atmosphere is worth the price of admission, but it is also not everyone's cup of tea. Lang freshmen are more likely to be 18-year-olds than the New School division's students, which is often referred to as "the adult division". That should make them very kindly to part-timers, however. The college and the whole university are experiencing a lot of growth right now, some of which is restrictive for the students -- they're running out of space, for instance. And they still don't boast much of a library -- we got access to NYU's instead.
Compared to NYU, Lang classes are all discussion-based, and the subjects are less traditional. Meaning the classes are more specific, sometimes in oddball subjects rather than 101-style lectures and bureaucracy. You get to be more creative with your class load, basically taking whatever you want, and hardly required to take classes you wish you didn't. Up until about 4 years ago they didn't even use the term "major", they so wanted to encourage your special snowflake well-rounded curriculum. The academics demand a lot of reading and writing, so your son may want to evaluate whether that would work well for him. If it does, he probably wouldn't find the general schoolwork very difficult. And again, I'd recommend a conversation with the Admissions office, who'd be happy to describe the place as it currently is. (I was there 5 years ago.) There are some really helpful people hidden away inside this whole process.
posted by greenland at 11:43 AM on February 4, 2010
Response by poster: thanks again. I just this momemt remembered that I had some contact with a dean at Lang named Sondra Farganis (when I taught an undergrad course there). I think I'm going to call her.
This is all really helpful input.
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:09 PM on February 5, 2010
This is all really helpful input.
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:09 PM on February 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dfriedman at 3:11 PM on February 3, 2010