What are the various pronounciations of the name "Sean"?

January 24, 2005 8:22 AM

Is 'SEEN' a legitimate pronounciation of the name Sean? (I thought the MSNBC anchors were mistaken at first, but they're still at it, calling weatherman Sean Mclaughlin 'seen'. You'd think he'd have corrected them by now.)
posted by Paddle to Sea to writing & language (48 comments total)

If that's how he and his family pronounce it, then it's correct for him if not for the general populace. He may have had to correct them so they would say "Seen".
posted by onhazier at 8:27 AM on January 24, 2005

I've never heard of Sean pronounced that way before, and I've met plenty of Seans, which is not to say it couldn't be done.

Personally I think it's just another attempt to stand out from the crowd. As a Christopher, it nerves me to no end when I see other Christophers going by the name Topher.

barf me out with a spoon!
posted by furtive at 8:27 AM on January 24, 2005

furtive: on SNL last week when Topher Grace was hosting, they made fun of his name and had a character named "thew" (from matthew).

I called a Sean "Seen" for about a month in second grade, but that was only because I was an idiot.
posted by null terminated at 8:36 AM on January 24, 2005

Who is anyone to say what the legitimate pronunciation of a name is, other than that person, or maybe his parents? Names are ultimately arbitrary.
posted by mkultra at 8:37 AM on January 24, 2005

I know a Tofer. He's been Tofer since he was a baby. I think there was an older toddler sibling involved.

As for Sean/Seen...I've never heard of it, but who's to tell someone else how to say or spell their name? As long as there are no little hearts hovering over the i's, I'll spell or say people's names however they like.
posted by duck at 8:45 AM on January 24, 2005

In a world of Taylishyas and Kaytlyiyns, "Seen" seems almost normal.
posted by cheaily at 8:48 AM on January 24, 2005

Ok, legitimacy is maybe the wrong word. Of course he's entitled to whatever pronunciation he likes, and whatever mystique it grants him. But he's the only one, right?
posted by Paddle to Sea at 8:54 AM on January 24, 2005

It is true that whatever way a person chooses to pronounce their name is the "right" way but that doesn't mean that person is pronouncing it correctly. Sean is an Irish name and the "Sea" should be pronounced as "Sh." I think this dude just wants to be different.

If my son grows up and starts calling himself seem-us I'll kill him.

I used to know a Debora who would SCREAM at anyone who didn't pronounce her name Deb-or-a. Ditto for an Andrea who insisted it was Un-dray-uh.

Then there was Mr. Az-wee-pay.
posted by bondcliff at 8:55 AM on January 24, 2005

Jesus H.

Sean is correctly pronounced "Shawn" and is a version of John from the Gaelic; Gaelic has no "j". "James" becomes Seamus pron. "Shamus."

Likewise, "Caitlin" is NOT "Kate-Lynne"; it is the Gaelic version of Kathleen (but pronounced a little different than Kathleen.)

But, like onhazier says, parents can give a name any pronunciation they want.

What cheaily said.
posted by Shane at 8:56 AM on January 24, 2005

No, no, no, no, no.
Some people try to do it because it's funny (c.f. See - Oh - Bahn), but it's pronounced "Shorn".
posted by seanyboy at 8:56 AM on January 24, 2005

McLaughlin was, until recently, a weatherman here in Phoenix (which really has to be the single-A ball of Meterology -- "Tommorow's weather? More or less the same...") and I'd always laughed at the "Seen" pronunciation of his name. Then I heard from a local that he supposedly has a twin brother named "Shawn." Things started to make sense, and somehow became a whole lot funnier.
posted by .kobayashi. at 9:11 AM on January 24, 2005

Shawn + Seen =
posted by danOstuporStar at 9:23 AM on January 24, 2005

My name is Laura, and that's pronounced "la OO ra." Not.

This is another instance of creeping (or do I mean galloping?) illiteracy. It's right up there with the Antwones, Dontaes, and Isiahs of pro sports. Oh, and does anyone want to bet that Avril Lavigne's birth certificate says "April Levine"?
posted by scratch at 9:24 AM on January 24, 2005

I imagine Avril Lavigne is her real name. French-Canadian, while it may look like illiteracy, does in fact involve another language.

.kobayashi, you've unravelled the mystery. Thanks.
posted by Paddle to Sea at 9:38 AM on January 24, 2005

I used to know a guy who went by Vid. Dave just really didn't suit him.
posted by squidlarkin at 9:39 AM on January 24, 2005

I'm sure Avril Lavigne's birth certificate says Avril Lavigne, since those would both be the correct and common spellings of both "Avril" and "Lavigne".

Similarly, "Ahn-dray-a" is the correct and common pronunciation of "Andrea" in many languages. People vary on the extent to which they want their names anglicized. I don't think it's necessarily pretencious to prefer your native pronunciation.

As for native english speakers who adopt pronunciations from other languages: If the parents chose the pronunciation at birth, it can be mildly strange, but doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Maybe they liked the sound of that name. When people grow up and choose to change the pronunciation of their name to something not native to either their native tongue or the vernacular wherever they live, that's an affectation. But who doesn't have a little affectation or two?
posted by duck at 9:55 AM on January 24, 2005

Mea culpa, I didn't know Avrileh was a Canuck.
posted by scratch at 9:57 AM on January 24, 2005

Oh...and for anyone really fascinated by the topic of where names come from, how they get popular, how they're spelled and when they're made up: Check out "A Matter of Taste" by Stanley Lieberson.

It's based on a bunch of datasets, including, if I remember correctly, the birth certificates for all of Illinois for some period of time. Some of his data sets include race and social class, so he can look at names trends with relation to those, too. There are (again, if I recall correctly) chapters on made-up names, and on andogenous names (also interesting).
posted by duck at 10:05 AM on January 24, 2005

If anyone's first name should be pronounced Seen, it's Sean Bean's. That that name doesn't rhyme is just wrong.
posted by kindall at 10:25 AM on January 24, 2005

I remember being incredibly confused by a Siobhan when I was small. I thought she was two different people. I also knew a girl unfortunate enough to be dubbed Kerris (Cerys).

How is Caitlin pronounced, Shane? More like Kat-leen?
posted by corvine at 10:47 AM on January 24, 2005

Ah kindall, if you hadn't said it, i would have had to.
posted by biffa at 11:15 AM on January 24, 2005

James" becomes Seamus pron. "Shamus."


Ditto for an Andrea who insisted it was Un-dray-uh.

crap crap crap.

apparently i've been pronouncing both of these "wrong".

fwiw, though, i have an indian name that I pronounce improperly (i put the emphasis on the first syllable, most indians put it on the second -- also, i totally change the vowel sounds of the second syllable because i'm a phonetic retard [parents, this is what happen when you teach your kids to read before attending school -- look, i can't even complete these basic exercises properly]), as I was recently informed by a cashier working at a gas station.

"no, no," he said, "that is not your name. you pronounce it like this".

needless to say, i thought it was nice he noticed that i had an indian name, but i was a little pissed that he was telling *me* how my name's supposed to be pronounced. 'course, it was a little easier for me to get to a point where technically, i'm mispronouncing my own name, because nobody really knew how my name should be pronounced and so they did not correct me (except for my father, whose pronunciation i might have ignored because i thought it was part of his accent).
posted by fishfucker at 11:15 AM on January 24, 2005

So it's FISH fyoock er, not fish FUCK er?
posted by scratch at 11:30 AM on January 24, 2005

How is Caitlin pronounced, Shane? More like Kat-leen?

I'm not the expert around here, but generally "Kahtleen," although I've heard it KIND OF Kawch-leen too. Dialects, I guess. I'm not fluent, though. Then when Seamus is an object in Irish Gaelic it's pronounced HAY-mish, I think, as in Dia duit, a Shéamais ("Hello, James" or literally "God be with you, James.")

Somebody fluent please jump in and correct me ;-)

I knew a dubliner named Ciera ("KEER-uh") who moved to the states and was constantly called "Sierra." I sometimes wonder if she ever changed it to "Kiera," heh.
posted by Shane at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2005

As an Ian ("EE-an") who has his name mispronounced as "Eye-an" often, I curse every Ian that actually pronounces his own name like that. It just makes my job harder.
posted by zsazsa at 11:42 AM on January 24, 2005

This is another instance of creeping ... illiteracy.

I don't think it's anything new, scratch. My grandfather's (and subsequently my uncle's and brother's) name was "Orion" pronounced OR-ion, bceause my great-grandmother read it in a book and liked it but had no idea how it was pronounced.

My wife hated the name, until she saw it written... and then she was the most vocal proponent of naming our firstborn "Orion," pronounced like the constellation, O-RIe-on.
posted by danOstuporStar at 11:48 AM on January 24, 2005

danO, you reminded me of my husband's high school gf named Yvette. And how is that pronounced? "Why Vet," of course. How else?

I don't think it's anything new, either. Perhaps instead of "creeping" or "galloping," I should have said something about the continuum of illiteracy or people's perceptions of it down the ages. Remember that there was no "correct" spelling much before Gutenberg.
posted by scratch at 12:02 PM on January 24, 2005

Parents, when you give your children non-phonetic names, you curse them to a life of misery.
posted by Eamon at 1:48 PM on January 24, 2005

This is similar to Green Bay Packers quarterback Bret Favre, who pronounces his name "FARV", as if the V came after the R. It's mind-bogglingly stupid.
posted by rocket88 at 2:02 PM on January 24, 2005

rocket88: That's not so stupid.

To my eye, "Favre" is obviously a french or franco-descended name. In a bastardisation of the French accent, "Farv" would be the correct pronounciation.

And, "Caitlin" is pronounced "Kate-ln"
posted by cheaily at 3:13 PM on January 24, 2005

OK, so this is only marginally related: when I was teaching at the University of Texas some years ago, I had a girl in my class from a small central Texas town. Her name was D'Arlen, but she pronounced it 'Dee-Arlen'. It didn't take me long to realize her parents probably named her Darlin' and she quickly changed the pronunciation to somewhat obscure that fact. I can't say I blame her, though if I were her, I'd have just taken the next step and changed my name altogether.
posted by tippiedog at 3:37 PM on January 24, 2005

Don't forget Ralph-pronounced-rafe. That's the Roman alphabet, dammit, and in the Roman alphabet that L makes an LLLLLL sound whether you want it to or not. It's not Rafe any more than you take on the phone, or wake down the street, or put sate on your food. *explodes in a mighty burst of misplaced pedantry*
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:16 PM on January 24, 2005

....waiting for someone to bring up that urban legend about the grade school girl named Shi'thead.... (pronounced Shi TAY ed, of course)
posted by availablelight at 4:35 PM on January 24, 2005

Rafe is the original pronunciation of Ralph, IIRC. The L is pronounced by us uneducated Amurricans.

(And do you really pronounce the L's in "talk" and "walk"?)

At any rate, pronouncing Sean as "seen" makes me cringe.
posted by litlnemo at 6:47 PM on January 24, 2005

THe only Sean I've ever hear pronounced is my best friend growing up, who calls me "christianity". "Seen"? Furreal?

How is "Siobhan" pronounced?
posted by notsnot at 8:08 PM on January 24, 2005

Rafe is the original pronunciation of Ralph, IIRC. The L is pronounced by us uneducated Amurricans

Yeahbut, the British Isles have a long history of torturing the Roman alphabet far past what any set of glyphs can take. If you don't want the sounds there, get rid of the letters! Besides, didn't you have to sell them off during the war?

(and talk and walk do sound a little bit different from tok and wok; I don't know what you'd call that difference though)

....waiting for someone to bring up that urban legend about the grade school girl named Shi'thead.... (pronounced Shi TAY ed, of course)

When my mother was a social worker, one of her clients showed her a picture of her daughter. Her daughter, Dementia.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:24 PM on January 24, 2005

I believe Siobhan is pronounced Show-vahn. Yea? Nay?
posted by deborah at 8:28 PM on January 24, 2005

I'd always heard Siobhan pronounced as "Sha-vawn" (or something like...) Slightly OT, but I've noticed that I always correctly mis-pronounce ethnically derived street names in my own city (i.e. Kedzie becomes "Ked-zee" and "Devon" becomes "De-vawn") but in other cities, I strive for the native tounge. (i.e. "Los Feliz" is NOT "Loz Fee-liz" and so on...) Anyone else noticed this?
posted by idontlikewords at 8:29 PM on January 24, 2005

My sister's middle name is Sioabhan and pronounces it sheh-VON. My dad's Irish, and that's the way he says it, too, so I've always agreed with him.
posted by synecdoche at 9:00 PM on January 24, 2005

Ach, sorry. That should have said Siobhan, just how deborah wrote it. I do not know where the A came from, or why I missed it whilst spell-checking.
posted by synecdoche at 9:01 PM on January 24, 2005

If you like giggling at naming-run-amuck, please visit this site immediately. It makes me laugh until I snort.
posted by equipoise at 11:23 PM on January 24, 2005

Heh, ROU_Xenophobe -- in my dialect "walk" and "wok" sound exactly the same. :)

"If you don't want the sounds there, get rid of the letters!"

Regarding Ralph, it's kind of an odd story. The name originated as Old Norse Raðulfr, and was then absorbed into Old English and reinforced by the Normans. Spellings in the 13th-16th Centuries included Rauf, Rafe, Raaf, Raffe, Rauffe, etc. It doesn't look like the L was pronounced at that point, since the spellings don't reflect it. Now, why the spelling gradually began to include the L, I don't know. Perhaps it was that people were trying to reflect the origin of the name. (Just as the B in "debt" has never been pronounced, but was added artificially to reflect the word's Latin root. The middle English version was "dette".)

The Americans and Scots were the ones who started pronouncing the L, and that has been spreading back to England. My guess: it's like some of the names posted in this thread, such as Caitlin (which is something like "Cat-LEEN" in Gaelic -- not "KATE-lin"). The spelling doesn't match people's dialect, and maybe they haven't heard the name, or don't connect the sound of it with the spelling, so they pronounce it in a way that makes sense to them.

And then there's good old language change, as well. I don't think that middle English speakers pronounced it "rayf" either -- I'd guess "rahf" or sometimes "rahf@" with @ standing for a schwa.
posted by litlnemo at 5:01 AM on January 25, 2005

(I was perhaps hasty to say earlier that "Rafe" is the original pronunciation of the name. What I should have said is the L-less pronunciation is a very old version of the name. But the "rayf" pronunciation -- not necessarily.)
posted by litlnemo at 5:06 AM on January 25, 2005

ROU_Xenophobe, complaining about letters not being pronounced in English is a lost cause. Ralph is one of those names that Brits and Yanks pronounce differently (Davies is another: in the UK, it's pronounced exactly like Davis); end of story.

And, "Caitlin" is pronounced "Kate-ln"

If by that you mean "some people named Caitlin use the historically inaccurate pronunciation Kate-lin," you're right; otherwise, you're talking through your hat. It's kat-LEEN, except that people who actually speak Irish palatalize the t, making it sound more like katch-LEEN (as Shane says). This particular Americanized variant really gets my goat for some reason, and I fervently wish Dylan Thomas had gotten involved with a woman with a more straightforward name.

litlnemo is spot on.
posted by languagehat at 8:53 AM on January 25, 2005

This particular Americanized variant bugs the bejesus out of me, too, but I can't make myself answer to anything else. Alas. My parents were mortified when they figured it out, and my mom has offered to make an effort pronounce it properly, but it's too late. (She calls me Kay anyway.) And like RAjan, I too get irritated when natives instruct me on the "proper" pronunciation. YES. I'VE HEARD THAT. And yes, I regret to say, my family was so tickled that they were naming me after Dylan Thomas's wife.

Punchline: There were already too many Kathleens and Kathryns in the family by the time I was born.
posted by caitlinb at 7:07 PM on January 25, 2005

I think that's the saddest thing I've ever read on MetaFilter.

*cries*
posted by languagehat at 1:03 PM on January 26, 2005

Hey, it could be worse. They could be calling me NYE-am.
posted by caitlinb at 1:39 PM on January 26, 2005

*cringe*

Gaelic names. Gotta love 'em.
posted by litlnemo at 5:00 PM on January 26, 2005