If they could only see how I would have rated my students
January 15, 2010 3:16 PM Subscribe
AcademicJobSearchFilter: What do I do about bad reviews from students online?
I am looking for an academic job, and I am well-qualified in many respects: good recommendations, worked with good people, published with some regularity, and one year of teaching experience at a high-end liberal arts college. The major stain on my record is two horrible student reviews on RateMyProfessors.com (and one middling one). I have plenty of good student reviews that the university collected and I will send these as part of my application, but I want to know how much I should worry about the ones posted online. I know I can't bring it up in the interview, but maybe I should do some extra work to prove that I am a good teacher?
I am looking for an academic job, and I am well-qualified in many respects: good recommendations, worked with good people, published with some regularity, and one year of teaching experience at a high-end liberal arts college. The major stain on my record is two horrible student reviews on RateMyProfessors.com (and one middling one). I have plenty of good student reviews that the university collected and I will send these as part of my application, but I want to know how much I should worry about the ones posted online. I know I can't bring it up in the interview, but maybe I should do some extra work to prove that I am a good teacher?
They're not going to check it. The site is crap and the reviews dubious. I'd forget about it.
And if they do bring it up like its pertinent information, you probably don't want to work with them.
posted by Lutoslawski at 3:28 PM on January 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
And if they do bring it up like its pertinent information, you probably don't want to work with them.
posted by Lutoslawski at 3:28 PM on January 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
I have been part of the hiring process a couple of times for faculty and we have never looked at online teacher reviews. We did look at the university reviews. I would not worry about it.
posted by bove at 3:29 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by bove at 3:29 PM on January 15, 2010
Or do some extra work to be a good teacher?
Kidding. I'm a student at a high-end liberal arts college, so that seems amusing to me.
Seriously, though. If you have "plenty of good student reviews" I wouldn't worry about three poor reviews on RateMyProfessors. No one is perfect, and sites like RateMyProfessors will tend to draw the extremes, especially the negative extremes.
The people considering your hiring should understand this. Some of them will likely have worse reviews than you.
posted by Picklegnome at 3:33 PM on January 15, 2010
Kidding. I'm a student at a high-end liberal arts college, so that seems amusing to me.
Seriously, though. If you have "plenty of good student reviews" I wouldn't worry about three poor reviews on RateMyProfessors. No one is perfect, and sites like RateMyProfessors will tend to draw the extremes, especially the negative extremes.
The people considering your hiring should understand this. Some of them will likely have worse reviews than you.
posted by Picklegnome at 3:33 PM on January 15, 2010
I'm sure you're fantastic, for the record.
posted by Picklegnome at 3:33 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by Picklegnome at 3:33 PM on January 15, 2010
It is possible that a search committee or search committee member might look at those reviews and decide not to interview you because of it.
If this event happens, the sensation you should have is that of a brief rush of air past your ear, followed by a sharp *crack* from the firearm that shot that bullet you so skillfully dodged.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:35 PM on January 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
If this event happens, the sensation you should have is that of a brief rush of air past your ear, followed by a sharp *crack* from the firearm that shot that bullet you so skillfully dodged.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:35 PM on January 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Phew! I think I was thrown into a tizzy about this post about how badly the online student reviews had marred hir reputation.
posted by stinker at 3:39 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by stinker at 3:39 PM on January 15, 2010
It might help to remember that every person on that committee has at one time or another had a disgruntled student or two who wrote terrible things about them and their class either online or on those official university reviews. If these comments were on your official reviews, I'd say to figure out some way to address the issues raised by the students in a non-defensive and productive way if it came up in the interview (i.e. if they said something about your limited use of technology in the classroom, you could show what you've done to remedy that issue since then).
But these are online. On a site known for drawing students who feel they need a public forum to vent in. I'd be very surprised if it comes up publicly. (Although I can see an individual committee member checking, I'd be very surprised if they admitted that to the larger committee or brought it up as evidence against interviewing you.) And if it does, you may want to consider how badly you really want to work at that school because that would be evidence to me that you'll need to be on the defensive about your teaching there and won't have a very supportive work environment.
posted by BlooPen at 3:40 PM on January 15, 2010
But these are online. On a site known for drawing students who feel they need a public forum to vent in. I'd be very surprised if it comes up publicly. (Although I can see an individual committee member checking, I'd be very surprised if they admitted that to the larger committee or brought it up as evidence against interviewing you.) And if it does, you may want to consider how badly you really want to work at that school because that would be evidence to me that you'll need to be on the defensive about your teaching there and won't have a very supportive work environment.
posted by BlooPen at 3:40 PM on January 15, 2010
If they do decide not to hire you over something someone wrote on a website, there's probably nothing you can do to change this. So you might as well have a positive attitude about getting through the process as if the reviews weren't there. On the off-chance that the interviewers bring up the online reviews, you could simply explain that the website isn't a reliable source of teaching evaluations (as explained above) and that the proper university evals filled out by all your students are the best reflection of your teaching ability.
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:40 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:40 PM on January 15, 2010
Nobody is going to check but if they do and if they use it as hiring criteria, well, frankly, you don't want to be working with those jerks. Even in this tight academic job market. And, yes, I've been part of the academic hiring process many, many times (in an administrative capacity).
posted by Pineapplicious at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by Pineapplicious at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2010
I have never, ever looked at RateMyProfessors.com or any of the other online student venting sites--not to look at my own ratings or anyone else's. These sites provide zero useful information about a job candidate IMO and I would not want to work at a place where these ratings were used as a criterion in the hiring process. I really don't even place a very high value on university-administered student evaluations, as there is quite a bit of research that documents how they are biased, can be gamed, and are generally invalid for measuring anything other than student satisfaction. Student satisfaction in nice, but doesn't tell me if you can teach. I would be much more persuaded by peer evaluations of your teaching.
Don't bring it up, cast it from your mind, and never darken that URL again. No good can come of it.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 5:28 PM on January 15, 2010
Don't bring it up, cast it from your mind, and never darken that URL again. No good can come of it.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 5:28 PM on January 15, 2010
I too have been on many search committees. RmP.com wouldn't merit discussion.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2010
Just adding to the data points: I've been the grad student rep on three hiring committees. I consider it my responsibility to represent the students, and therefor pay most attention to the person's potential as a teacher. I never even considered looking at RateMyProfessors. It was never suggested by any of the profs on the committee and never came up in an interview.
I think that one of your best chances to show your teaching ability are the job talk. You want to pitch it at a level that's going to be interesting to profs, but show people your ability to convey your points in a way that draws people in and informs them. I did have a prof tell me once that the job talk was hands down the most important single aspect of the application/interview process.
posted by carmen at 6:29 PM on January 15, 2010
I think that one of your best chances to show your teaching ability are the job talk. You want to pitch it at a level that's going to be interesting to profs, but show people your ability to convey your points in a way that draws people in and informs them. I did have a prof tell me once that the job talk was hands down the most important single aspect of the application/interview process.
posted by carmen at 6:29 PM on January 15, 2010
In fairness, I have seen someone complain anonymously about a colleague doing just this.
But, IIRC, it was in a context of "This idiot is one of many reasons why I want to leave."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:42 PM on January 15, 2010
But, IIRC, it was in a context of "This idiot is one of many reasons why I want to leave."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:42 PM on January 15, 2010
In academic jb=ob searches, priority one is your published work and expertise in your field. If your formal, university administered reviews are strong, there would be no reason to seek out the dubious, unverifiable opinions on ratemyprofessors.com, and, as mentioned above, if this influences their hiring in any meaningful way, it's an institution you do not want to be a part of since the professional and bureaucratic hoops you might need to jump through will not be worth it and will only detract from your professional & pedagogical development. Don't sweat it, unless they bring it up. If for some odd reason they do, emphasize your positive evaluations that are part of your employee record, and if they have an ounce of common sense, they will recognize & appreciate what you have to offer as a professional in their field, as a colleague, and most importantly, as a teacher. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 7:46 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by katemcd at 7:46 PM on January 15, 2010
I have been on a few search committees and chaired one, and I would never think to look at RateMyProfessors.com as part of a search. I have noticed that my own page has ratings for courses I never taught, sometimes in semesters when I was on leave.
posted by brianogilvie at 7:59 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by brianogilvie at 7:59 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
There is no proof that the people that post to RmP.com are even your former students. I think it would be unethical for a search committee to use them.
posted by umbú at 8:29 PM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by umbú at 8:29 PM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
God, nobody trusts RateMyProfessors. Even students don't. Why would actual professors?? I have a lot of friends and relatives who teach at the college level and I've looked them up on RMP for laughs. Uncle So-and-so "has crazy eyes"! Aunt Such-and-such "is probably smart but you can't tell cause she seems like such an uptight psycho"! Good for fun at a family reunion...but nobody takes that noise seriously. Those comments are at YouTube level.
I agree with the other commenters who said, if you lose out on a job because of RMP reviews, I don't care how bad the market is, that was not a job you wanted.
posted by crinklebat at 9:19 PM on January 15, 2010
I agree with the other commenters who said, if you lose out on a job because of RMP reviews, I don't care how bad the market is, that was not a job you wanted.
posted by crinklebat at 9:19 PM on January 15, 2010
if this influences their hiring in any meaningful way, it's an institution you do not want to be a part of since the professional and bureaucratic hoops you might need to jump through will not be worth it
I hear you, but my own experiences and the experiences of others I know in academic job searches are that the criteria for hiring are whatever the various people on the search committee happen to care about. So if one of them is a dipshit or unreconstructed sexist or bigot or other variety of Crazy Uncle, then the criteria for that search will include Satisfy The Dipshit.
The problem here isn't that there are going to be professional or bureaucratic hurdles -- academic job searches are usually run almost entirely within the department, with upper echelons only acting to approve or disapprove the decision of the department. The problem is that you'd be in a department that has at least one dipshit or unreconstructed Crazy Uncle, and that for whatever reason can't keep him off of search committees (or minimize his role, warn candidates that ∃Crazy Uncle, and assure them that he's under control -- lots of otherwise fine departments have deadwood Crazy Uncles).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:03 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I hear you, but my own experiences and the experiences of others I know in academic job searches are that the criteria for hiring are whatever the various people on the search committee happen to care about. So if one of them is a dipshit or unreconstructed sexist or bigot or other variety of Crazy Uncle, then the criteria for that search will include Satisfy The Dipshit.
The problem here isn't that there are going to be professional or bureaucratic hurdles -- academic job searches are usually run almost entirely within the department, with upper echelons only acting to approve or disapprove the decision of the department. The problem is that you'd be in a department that has at least one dipshit or unreconstructed Crazy Uncle, and that for whatever reason can't keep him off of search committees (or minimize his role, warn candidates that ∃Crazy Uncle, and assure them that he's under control -- lots of otherwise fine departments have deadwood Crazy Uncles).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:03 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've been on five academic search committees in the last few years. The only time it was ever brought up (by one person on the committee), the rest of us laughed at him. It's general consensus that RMP tends to attract resentful students with a grudge who didn't get the grade they thought they "deserved", and it's thus completely discounted. Don't worry about it and certainly don't bring it up at interview.
posted by media_itoku at 1:48 PM on January 16, 2010
posted by media_itoku at 1:48 PM on January 16, 2010
Do the Professor thing: LEARN, learn from your bad reviews "if" they are really "worth" learning from. By "worth" I mean they actually talk about aspects of the classroom that you had control over, be it your behavior, your teaching style among other things. If not, and if you are asked about them, be specific, point out specifically how you deal with things, how you address what your accused of, and how you address problems posted by students in the classroom.
Overall, it seems like you really have a good measure of teaching and good abilities to teach. A good indicator of performance is when you have to run part of a lecture as a teaching evaluation. I hope they still do that. Then again, the anxiety can get the better of us at some points.
Recent Student's Perspective:
As far as it goes towards rate my professors and it's credibility. There are still some students who have used it in the past in a very credible manner which is an excellent mechanism for feedback for students AS WELL AS professors. Yes it's RAW and it's pathetic to hear some students comment the way they do but PLEASE don't tell me that all of it horseshit.
You as the professor may be teaching class loads of 100+ students so not everything is going to be positive because your university may not provide enough TAs to handle the workload amongst other things. Hence, some student may not feel "part" of the class so he or she may have rated you poorly.
The ratings at rate my profs and pickaprof (back when it posted member based ratings) was of high importance in me selecting my professors as an undergraduate and consider it to be the primary source for going to when taking classes. I could approach professor more comfortably, knew more about them, felt less anxious for the same reason, and the entire workload was a lot more cooperative. It allowed me to get to the cooperative side of the professor and learn from interactions a lot more and ahead of time.
So, please, don't dismiss the website because you have a PhD. Show some kind of empathy.
posted by iNfo.Pump at 11:50 AM on January 17, 2010
Overall, it seems like you really have a good measure of teaching and good abilities to teach. A good indicator of performance is when you have to run part of a lecture as a teaching evaluation. I hope they still do that. Then again, the anxiety can get the better of us at some points.
Recent Student's Perspective:
As far as it goes towards rate my professors and it's credibility. There are still some students who have used it in the past in a very credible manner which is an excellent mechanism for feedback for students AS WELL AS professors. Yes it's RAW and it's pathetic to hear some students comment the way they do but PLEASE don't tell me that all of it horseshit.
You as the professor may be teaching class loads of 100+ students so not everything is going to be positive because your university may not provide enough TAs to handle the workload amongst other things. Hence, some student may not feel "part" of the class so he or she may have rated you poorly.
The ratings at rate my profs and pickaprof (back when it posted member based ratings) was of high importance in me selecting my professors as an undergraduate and consider it to be the primary source for going to when taking classes. I could approach professor more comfortably, knew more about them, felt less anxious for the same reason, and the entire workload was a lot more cooperative. It allowed me to get to the cooperative side of the professor and learn from interactions a lot more and ahead of time.
So, please, don't dismiss the website because you have a PhD. Show some kind of empathy.
posted by iNfo.Pump at 11:50 AM on January 17, 2010
iNfo.Pump, I think your point is well-taken regarding the actual in-house student evaluations, which are controlled so that you know that it is your students from a given class that are giving you comments. I take those very seriously. RmP.com, however, has no such controls. It is frightening to think that someone who has an axe to grind for some unrelated reason (such as, for example, a disgruntled colleague) could negatively affect your career.
posted by umbú at 12:52 PM on January 22, 2010
posted by umbú at 12:52 PM on January 22, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would be astonished, actually, to hear of a search committee that (a) bothered to check, and (b) thought they gave useful information.
(But then, I think it's a piece of crap site.)
I would *not* mention it at an interview, and if it comes up, I would say that you don't check it. But it won't come up.
posted by leahwrenn at 3:24 PM on January 15, 2010