Bleeding at will?
January 13, 2010 1:54 PM
Is it possible to control or move your period by thinking about it in the right way, or through any other sort of mental control?
A friend dated a girl long-distance in college who, he says, would "move" her period if it was going to be during a week when she planned to visit him. He is adamant that she was not taking the pill, and that she did it deliberately, possibly through some sort of meditative exercise (that is, it wasn't an involuntary stress reaction or something).
I, a woman, am skeptical but intrigued. What on earth was this girl doing? Is this possible, or was she just putting one over on him?
A friend dated a girl long-distance in college who, he says, would "move" her period if it was going to be during a week when she planned to visit him. He is adamant that she was not taking the pill, and that she did it deliberately, possibly through some sort of meditative exercise (that is, it wasn't an involuntary stress reaction or something).
I, a woman, am skeptical but intrigued. What on earth was this girl doing? Is this possible, or was she just putting one over on him?
If she was on Nuvaring then she could just start a new ring and skip her period.
Otherwise, I call bullshit, too. However, it is awesome to sometimes make guys believe we have special superpowers. So, ten points for that!
posted by amanda at 1:58 PM on January 13, 2010
Otherwise, I call bullshit, too. However, it is awesome to sometimes make guys believe we have special superpowers. So, ten points for that!
posted by amanda at 1:58 PM on January 13, 2010
no. if she could do this, she could sell the methodology for a billion, trillion dollars. wait, was she a billion, trillionaire? then no.
posted by nadawi at 2:00 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by nadawi at 2:00 PM on January 13, 2010
Well, it's not impossible. But it's highly unlikely.
My bet is that she was on the pill and, for one reason or another, didn't want to tell him. Or he didn't want to tell you.. Or possibly she was using something like a diaphragm which would temporarily make it seem like she wasn't on her period.
posted by muddgirl at 2:00 PM on January 13, 2010
My bet is that she was on the pill and, for one reason or another, didn't want to tell him. Or he didn't want to tell you.. Or possibly she was using something like a diaphragm which would temporarily make it seem like she wasn't on her period.
posted by muddgirl at 2:00 PM on January 13, 2010
No, it's not possible.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:06 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:06 PM on January 13, 2010
Well, I don't think she could do it either, but I do know that when I'm super stressed out my period comes a day or two later. So maybe she has the ability to stress herself out so well that if affects her period?
...Yeah, I'm not buying it either.
posted by egeanin at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2010
...Yeah, I'm not buying it either.
posted by egeanin at 2:13 PM on January 13, 2010
In some cases being overly stressed may delay a period (I don't think the scientific evidence is strong but there's anacedotal evidence) and also starving yourself below a healthy body weight can delay or stop menstruation. The pill or other hormonal whatever (e.g. Nuvaring) can do it of course, and I'm betting this is what she used.
But meditation? No. The higher functioning areas of the brain have some degree of control over pretty much the whole nervous system and you can (sometimes) influence bodily functions like heart rate or digestive function. But menstruation isn't under nervous control. It's driven by a complex combination of powerful hormones and biochemical pathways and feedback mechanisms, I don't see how any level of meditation or CNS function can bypass all that.
posted by shelleycat at 2:16 PM on January 13, 2010
But meditation? No. The higher functioning areas of the brain have some degree of control over pretty much the whole nervous system and you can (sometimes) influence bodily functions like heart rate or digestive function. But menstruation isn't under nervous control. It's driven by a complex combination of powerful hormones and biochemical pathways and feedback mechanisms, I don't see how any level of meditation or CNS function can bypass all that.
posted by shelleycat at 2:16 PM on January 13, 2010
Does he know that she *ever* menstruated? She could have been giving excuses to hide anorexia.
posted by unknowncommand at 2:17 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by unknowncommand at 2:17 PM on January 13, 2010
Here are the possibilities:
- Your friend's ex-girlfriend lied to him either about taking birth control or using a diaphragm (perhaps because she wanted him to wear condoms as well, IDK);
or
- Your friend's ex-girlfriend is able to do something hitherto unwitnessed by medical science, or even reported anecdotally.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:19 PM on January 13, 2010
- Your friend's ex-girlfriend lied to him either about taking birth control or using a diaphragm (perhaps because she wanted him to wear condoms as well, IDK);
or
- Your friend's ex-girlfriend is able to do something hitherto unwitnessed by medical science, or even reported anecdotally.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:19 PM on January 13, 2010
Is it possible that your friend is clueless enough to not notice her use of tampons?
posted by runningwithscissors at 2:21 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by runningwithscissors at 2:21 PM on January 13, 2010
It's not clear to medical science, despite the idea's currency amongst the public, that psychological stress can impact menstrual cycles. Exercise can though.
posted by elektrotechnicus at 2:26 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by elektrotechnicus at 2:26 PM on January 13, 2010
I rarely get my period thanks to a combination of a small pituitary tumor and not caring enough about it to get it addressed [I'm healthy otherwise]. It never occurred to me that I could tell me SO that I could use my mental powers to not get my period when he was visiting and he might think I was some sort of uterus ninja!
In other words, not in my experience, no.
posted by jessamyn at 2:28 PM on January 13, 2010
In other words, not in my experience, no.
posted by jessamyn at 2:28 PM on January 13, 2010
I definitely would have noticed by now if it were possible to stop the damn thing by thinking about it.
Maybe she was just able to arrange her weekends so there was no overlap, possibly with a fairly long cycle so that it was less noticeable (no we can't meet every fourth weekend, just I can't make it that weekend--because if I'm ovulating now then I'll have my period then). Or maybe her period was just irregular enough that she would joke about "thinking about not having it" and more than likely not have it anyway.
posted by anaelith at 2:28 PM on January 13, 2010
Maybe she was just able to arrange her weekends so there was no overlap, possibly with a fairly long cycle so that it was less noticeable (no we can't meet every fourth weekend, just I can't make it that weekend--because if I'm ovulating now then I'll have my period then). Or maybe her period was just irregular enough that she would joke about "thinking about not having it" and more than likely not have it anyway.
posted by anaelith at 2:28 PM on January 13, 2010
Um. OK, I might get flamed for this. But I have an anecdote:
I was about 15. It was during the dreaded swim unit in gym class. It was also approaching That Time of Month for me. I was very regular and my period was due to start on the third to last day of the swim unit.
I did NOT want this to happen. I hadn't mastered tampons yet so my only other option would be to fake an "ear infection" and sit awkwardly on the sidelines. The other girls knew you didn't really have an ear infection, so that was embarrassing.
I clearly remember silently willing myself to hold off on this until the swim unit was over. I'd shut my eyes and repeatedly send this "DON'T START YET" signal to my pelvis. It sounds so weird now, but I was a desperate awkward 15 year old.
Anyways...it didn't start until the swim unit was over!
I agree it's almost certain this was just a random coincidence or due to stress or something. But that's my story, make of it what you will. I do think repeatedly and consistently delaying it by a week is unlikely, to say the least.
a later attempt to mentally delay it for a senior year party involving a hot tub and my high school crush was sadly unsuccessful.
posted by castlebravo at 2:31 PM on January 13, 2010
I was about 15. It was during the dreaded swim unit in gym class. It was also approaching That Time of Month for me. I was very regular and my period was due to start on the third to last day of the swim unit.
I did NOT want this to happen. I hadn't mastered tampons yet so my only other option would be to fake an "ear infection" and sit awkwardly on the sidelines. The other girls knew you didn't really have an ear infection, so that was embarrassing.
I clearly remember silently willing myself to hold off on this until the swim unit was over. I'd shut my eyes and repeatedly send this "DON'T START YET" signal to my pelvis. It sounds so weird now, but I was a desperate awkward 15 year old.
Anyways...it didn't start until the swim unit was over!
I agree it's almost certain this was just a random coincidence or due to stress or something. But that's my story, make of it what you will. I do think repeatedly and consistently delaying it by a week is unlikely, to say the least.
a later attempt to mentally delay it for a senior year party involving a hot tub and my high school crush was sadly unsuccessful.
posted by castlebravo at 2:31 PM on January 13, 2010
You hear a lot of odd claims about the effects of certain kinds of qi gong, a Chinese internal martial art, on the reproductive systems. However, I'm not willing to believe that your friend's GF was some kind of ovarian kung fu master, and I've never heard of it actually being used to stop one's period.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:32 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:32 PM on January 13, 2010
I have heard of this anecdotally through Inga Musico's book Cunt, where she talked about using the meditation technique “imaging”, using direct and absolute concentration, to naturally induce an abortion. She did this for 8 days along with herbal tea and massage. She says she used the spoon-bending, mind-melding force of her visual concentration and just imagined her uterus shedding the fetus, and by whatever chemical or cosmic intervention, it did.
I've never heard of this anywhere else and am inclined to call bullhockery, personally, but maybe this doing is using something similar during menstruation. I can say that I've noticed my period change duration according to how sexually active I am, as well as sync up with the schedule of other women whom I live with. Meaning a house full of 3 girls all menstruating at the same time. Oh hormones, how magical.
posted by Juicy Avenger at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2010
I've never heard of this anywhere else and am inclined to call bullhockery, personally, but maybe this doing is using something similar during menstruation. I can say that I've noticed my period change duration according to how sexually active I am, as well as sync up with the schedule of other women whom I live with. Meaning a house full of 3 girls all menstruating at the same time. Oh hormones, how magical.
posted by Juicy Avenger at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2010
Oh and did I mention bullhockery? Cause it probably is.
posted by Juicy Avenger at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by Juicy Avenger at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2010
If she is able to instantly place herself under intense amounts of mental and physical stress, it might affect her menstruation. It would probably kill her in other ways though.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:49 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by blue_beetle at 2:49 PM on January 13, 2010
She did this for 8 days along with herbal tea and massage.
When choosing between a herbal tea full of chemical abortificants and meditation as the mechanism for this I go for the tea.
I actually can imagine this girl thinking that she does have some effect. I have, and have always had, a very regular 21 day cycle except for the very odd occasion where it randomly switches to 35 days for two or three months. There's no reason for this and doesn't need to be a reason, menstruation being irregular is a normal part of biology. This switch has happened three or four times in the twenty or so years I've been menstruating and I can imagine it easily coinciding with my actively wanting my period to delay (hell, having a 21 day cycle means I pretty much always want it delayed). A lot of people ascribe meaning to coincidences which don't deserve it, it's a strong human trait. Add in a less regular cycle than mine (which would also be totally normal) and it would not be a stretch for this person to have a couple of such coincidences and end up thinking she can change things, even if only sort of half jokingly and with some exaggeration. People believe what they want to believe (like the tea example above, I'm sure many people find it more satisfying to think the meditation did something there), doesn’t mean it happened.
We're getting something like a fourth hand report here. Controlling menstruation with mind power or what ever makes no biological sense, but exaggeration and telephone effects in story telling added to coincidence and/or exaggeration are possible, maybe even likely.
posted by shelleycat at 2:55 PM on January 13, 2010
When choosing between a herbal tea full of chemical abortificants and meditation as the mechanism for this I go for the tea.
I actually can imagine this girl thinking that she does have some effect. I have, and have always had, a very regular 21 day cycle except for the very odd occasion where it randomly switches to 35 days for two or three months. There's no reason for this and doesn't need to be a reason, menstruation being irregular is a normal part of biology. This switch has happened three or four times in the twenty or so years I've been menstruating and I can imagine it easily coinciding with my actively wanting my period to delay (hell, having a 21 day cycle means I pretty much always want it delayed). A lot of people ascribe meaning to coincidences which don't deserve it, it's a strong human trait. Add in a less regular cycle than mine (which would also be totally normal) and it would not be a stretch for this person to have a couple of such coincidences and end up thinking she can change things, even if only sort of half jokingly and with some exaggeration. People believe what they want to believe (like the tea example above, I'm sure many people find it more satisfying to think the meditation did something there), doesn’t mean it happened.
We're getting something like a fourth hand report here. Controlling menstruation with mind power or what ever makes no biological sense, but exaggeration and telephone effects in story telling added to coincidence and/or exaggeration are possible, maybe even likely.
posted by shelleycat at 2:55 PM on January 13, 2010
Maybe she facetiously used her period as an excuse not to have sex once, and then lied every time she was period-free on multiples of 28 days after that?
(+1 vote for she was just on the pill)
posted by oinopaponton at 3:10 PM on January 13, 2010
(+1 vote for she was just on the pill)
posted by oinopaponton at 3:10 PM on January 13, 2010
In her book "Cunt", Inga Muscio claims you can change your cycle to meet up with the lunar calendar just by paying daily attention to it instead of the solar calendar. Sounds like potentially kooky, crystal-clutching nonsense to me, but I've never actually tried it, and the lady body often surprises cynical old me. Maybe that's what she did, or at least claimed to do?
I can vouch for the cycle just not appearing during times of crazy stress, but it's not something you could possibly control unless you were Yoda, who, it turns out, is not real. Your friend was probably having the wool luna-pad pulled over his eyes.
posted by pazazygeek at 3:16 PM on January 13, 2010
I can vouch for the cycle just not appearing during times of crazy stress, but it's not something you could possibly control unless you were Yoda, who, it turns out, is not real. Your friend was probably having the wool luna-pad pulled over his eyes.
posted by pazazygeek at 3:16 PM on January 13, 2010
I am well familiar with physical stresses (weight loss, strenuous exercise, standing on my feet for five days at a conference, uterine fibroids) affecting my period. Super strong "make it so!" thoughts and being around other women, not so much.
And I say this as someone who just had to leave work early today due to the most godawful cramps I've had since I was 20.
If I could, I would wish the whole damn ordeal on another person altogether. Like Ann Coulter.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:26 PM on January 13, 2010
And I say this as someone who just had to leave work early today due to the most godawful cramps I've had since I was 20.
If I could, I would wish the whole damn ordeal on another person altogether. Like Ann Coulter.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:26 PM on January 13, 2010
I believe it.
Look, anyone who has a period knows that it is hugely responsive to stress. If you are fasting, or mentally stressed, or ill, your period is late. Maybe there are a few women out there who can harness this and achieve some conscious control over the process.
Some of these answers make it sound like our lady-bits are uncontrollable tornadoes of mystery, but they're really not. If people can use biofeedback to control their blood pressure, why couldn't someone learn to delay their period? Maybe they could learn to increase release of the stress hormone cortisol, which would delay menstruation.
posted by selfmedicating at 3:30 PM on January 13, 2010
Look, anyone who has a period knows that it is hugely responsive to stress. If you are fasting, or mentally stressed, or ill, your period is late. Maybe there are a few women out there who can harness this and achieve some conscious control over the process.
Some of these answers make it sound like our lady-bits are uncontrollable tornadoes of mystery, but they're really not. If people can use biofeedback to control their blood pressure, why couldn't someone learn to delay their period? Maybe they could learn to increase release of the stress hormone cortisol, which would delay menstruation.
posted by selfmedicating at 3:30 PM on January 13, 2010
I believe it.
Look, anyone who has a period knows that it is hugely responsive to stress. If you are fasting, or mentally stressed, or ill, your period is late. Maybe there are a few women out there who can harness this and achieve some conscious control over the process.
Look, if a woman has the conscious ability to delay or hasten her period and can demonstrate that ability in a reliable fashion, she would likely win the JREF 1 Million Dollar challenge. If I were the OP I would demand to split it with her.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A third-hand testimony is no such evidence. Furthermore, the biological mechanism of menstruation is NOT an "uncontrollable tornado of mystery." Our scientific knowledge about the process of menstruation, as well as our first-hand experiences, AS WELL AS a common sense knowledge of human nature are what make most of us very skeptical of this claim.
posted by muddgirl at 3:37 PM on January 13, 2010
Look, anyone who has a period knows that it is hugely responsive to stress. If you are fasting, or mentally stressed, or ill, your period is late. Maybe there are a few women out there who can harness this and achieve some conscious control over the process.
Look, if a woman has the conscious ability to delay or hasten her period and can demonstrate that ability in a reliable fashion, she would likely win the JREF 1 Million Dollar challenge. If I were the OP I would demand to split it with her.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A third-hand testimony is no such evidence. Furthermore, the biological mechanism of menstruation is NOT an "uncontrollable tornado of mystery." Our scientific knowledge about the process of menstruation, as well as our first-hand experiences, AS WELL AS a common sense knowledge of human nature are what make most of us very skeptical of this claim.
posted by muddgirl at 3:37 PM on January 13, 2010
- Your friend's ex-girlfriend lied to him either about taking birth control or using a diaphragm (perhaps because she wanted him to wear condoms as well, IDK);
This was exactly what I thought as well.
Also, no. Not possible.
posted by desuetude at 3:55 PM on January 13, 2010
This was exactly what I thought as well.
Also, no. Not possible.
posted by desuetude at 3:55 PM on January 13, 2010
Family apocrypha says an aunt of mine didn't start her period until she was 16 or 17 "because she didn't want to," and that it started the day after a doctor explained why it was important and necessary for her health. Or something.
My first thought was also a tale to explain away anorexia or to otherwise hide birth control use or encourage condom use. Or maybe she just had a theatrical flair and liked to tell her boyfriend ridiculous bullshit so she could laugh when he believed it.
posted by motsque at 4:03 PM on January 13, 2010
My first thought was also a tale to explain away anorexia or to otherwise hide birth control use or encourage condom use. Or maybe she just had a theatrical flair and liked to tell her boyfriend ridiculous bullshit so she could laugh when he believed it.
posted by motsque at 4:03 PM on January 13, 2010
If people can use biofeedback to control their blood pressure, why couldn't someone learn to delay their period?
Because blood presure is under control of the CNS, menstruation isn't. The cortisol thing doesn't really make sense either. You're making a few broad, unsupported generalisations and jumping to conclusions.
Menstruation is well understood by us physiologists and there is no biological mechanism here.
posted by shelleycat at 4:12 PM on January 13, 2010
Because blood presure is under control of the CNS, menstruation isn't. The cortisol thing doesn't really make sense either. You're making a few broad, unsupported generalisations and jumping to conclusions.
Menstruation is well understood by us physiologists and there is no biological mechanism here.
posted by shelleycat at 4:12 PM on January 13, 2010
Why has no one asked if he's sure she entered the world as a female? Perhaps she CAN'T have a period.
posted by Unred at 4:42 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by Unred at 4:42 PM on January 13, 2010
Going from the actual facts, all that we know is that he never saw her menstruate. And if you told me that someone never got her period when she visited her boyfriend, I'd assume that either: (1) She was moving her period with hormonal birth control (pill or ring) and didn't want to tell him that she was on it, or (2) she just never - or very rarely - gets her period due to anorexia, birth control (Mirena IUD, depo), or some other medical cause of amenorrhoea, but didn't want to explain it.
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:43 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:43 PM on January 13, 2010
Maybe she belongs to an amateur group of menstrual extractionists and can make her imminent period go away within 15 minutes with the right tools. Or maybe she has a doctor who's willing to do it for her. I thought this practice had died out in the 1970s, but who knows?
posted by maudlin at 5:17 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by maudlin at 5:17 PM on January 13, 2010
You mention that this was something that had happened in the past, but without giving a time frame. Are we talking like the 1960s, or the late 1990s?
If someone today told me that she moved her period "but wasn't on the pill," I'd say, well of course. You can be on the ring, the shot, the patch....
posted by ErikaB at 5:37 PM on January 13, 2010
If someone today told me that she moved her period "but wasn't on the pill," I'd say, well of course. You can be on the ring, the shot, the patch....
posted by ErikaB at 5:37 PM on January 13, 2010
if she was super-skinny she could have starved her body weight down to stop it... not a recommended method by any means but does seem like something one could and would do.
Other than that the only way I know of to forcibly rearrange one's period is via birth control, taking an extra x days worth of active pills. I know plenty of of brides-to-be are advised to do this to avoid having their period during their honeymoon.
Mind control? Malarkey!
My best guess for the anecdote in question is that she wasn't actually expecting her period at that time and made a joke about it which he didn't understand was meant as humor.
posted by Billegible at 5:58 PM on January 13, 2010
Other than that the only way I know of to forcibly rearrange one's period is via birth control, taking an extra x days worth of active pills. I know plenty of of brides-to-be are advised to do this to avoid having their period during their honeymoon.
Mind control? Malarkey!
My best guess for the anecdote in question is that she wasn't actually expecting her period at that time and made a joke about it which he didn't understand was meant as humor.
posted by Billegible at 5:58 PM on January 13, 2010
Unfortunately, from the searches I've done on the subject, there isn't enough research on ways to effect menstruation besides starving yourself and exercising like crazy which cause a very obvious amenorrhea.
I would love to see more research on the subject personally, particularly on the effects of intermittent fasting.
posted by melissam at 8:44 PM on January 13, 2010
I would love to see more research on the subject personally, particularly on the effects of intermittent fasting.
posted by melissam at 8:44 PM on January 13, 2010
I vote for a possibly true ... there are more things between heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.
See, for example, synchronous menstruating
posted by jannw at 11:14 PM on January 13, 2010
See, for example, synchronous menstruating
posted by jannw at 11:14 PM on January 13, 2010
Yeah, but synchronous menstruation has a very clear physical cause based on the secretion of hormones.
posted by Billegible at 11:33 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by Billegible at 11:33 PM on January 13, 2010
It sounds possible. If I am super stressed out during ovulation, or get sick (like, a mild cold) the period moves exactly a week later, or sometimes two weeks later. By the end of high school I could always predict whether or not this was going to happen based on how stressed I'd been a few weeks after my previous period. Intentionally moving it? Seems like only one more step past prediction.
posted by mokudekiru at 1:19 AM on January 14, 2010
posted by mokudekiru at 1:19 AM on January 14, 2010
A Leap Period.. and this girl ain't sharin' the secret? She had your boy fooled..
Ladies, this is getting really hard to keep up. They're going to be onto us soon. Quickly, to the Venus transport station!
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:17 AM on January 14, 2010
Ladies, this is getting really hard to keep up. They're going to be onto us soon. Quickly, to the Venus transport station!
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:17 AM on January 14, 2010
OK, I admit that, if this girl was scheduling her visits several months in advance, she could theoretically move between groups of women with synchronized menstruation. But that takes A LOT of fore-planning, without guaranteed success.
One thing that's for certain - this girl's boyfriend is either exaggerating a story on re-telling or was mislead. I've studied a little bit about female gurus both in the US and in India, who claimed that through meditation they could do a lot of different things, but controlling menstruation (beyond the normal shifts that happen from time to time) wasn't a power I remember being discussed all that much.
posted by muddgirl at 5:30 AM on January 14, 2010
One thing that's for certain - this girl's boyfriend is either exaggerating a story on re-telling or was mislead. I've studied a little bit about female gurus both in the US and in India, who claimed that through meditation they could do a lot of different things, but controlling menstruation (beyond the normal shifts that happen from time to time) wasn't a power I remember being discussed all that much.
posted by muddgirl at 5:30 AM on January 14, 2010
Another vote for lying about being on the pill, or she was on the ring or the patch and thought she was super clever for tricking the bf into believing her little story.
posted by ishotjr at 9:03 AM on January 14, 2010
posted by ishotjr at 9:03 AM on January 14, 2010
By the end of high school I could always predict whether or not this was going to happen based on how stressed I'd been a few weeks after my previous period. Intentionally moving it? Seems like only one more step past prediction
But giving yourself period-moving levels of stress intentionally is waaaaay past prediction. It's like trying to tickle yourself so hard that you involuntarily pee.
posted by desuetude at 10:34 AM on January 14, 2010
But giving yourself period-moving levels of stress intentionally is waaaaay past prediction. It's like trying to tickle yourself so hard that you involuntarily pee.
posted by desuetude at 10:34 AM on January 14, 2010
By the way, the bottom of that Straight Dope column on menstrual synchronization has a link to a more modern column (2002, by the same author) debunking the earlier (1986) column.
posted by anaelith at 7:03 AM on January 16, 2010
posted by anaelith at 7:03 AM on January 16, 2010
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posted by banannafish at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2010