The H is O...
January 11, 2010 6:58 PM Subscribe
What is an affordable alternative to baseboard heaters? I may be renting a house in the next few months. It's a total fixer-upper (cosmetically), but since the owner is a family member we are trying to work out an agreement to pay for and do the work ourselves in exchange for our deposit/1st/last. Catch is, it only has ancient baseboard heaters through-out...
I HATE baseboard heaters*, the house is small and narrow enough without having to dogde those fire traps, and it will cost an arm and a leg to heat the place in winter. Does anyone know of anything that is cost/energy efficient and eco-crunchy that I could replace them with?
The house around 1100 sq ft, 2 bd 1 bath upstairs and 2 rooms, 1 bath in the basement. It's fairly well insulated. It doesn't have a fireplace or any kind of central heating set up (it was built in 1916). I have access to people who know how to do things "home improvement-y", so self-installation isn't a huge problem. In my dreams we would install radiant heat in the floors, but that is only if we decide to buy the place.
Any ideas or suggestions help!
*I grew up with baseboard heaters, and my sister's Bionic Woman doll met with a very gruesome fate one night when I left it on the "regeneration bed" a.k.a. baseboard heater. Man, I hate those things.
I HATE baseboard heaters*, the house is small and narrow enough without having to dogde those fire traps, and it will cost an arm and a leg to heat the place in winter. Does anyone know of anything that is cost/energy efficient and eco-crunchy that I could replace them with?
The house around 1100 sq ft, 2 bd 1 bath upstairs and 2 rooms, 1 bath in the basement. It's fairly well insulated. It doesn't have a fireplace or any kind of central heating set up (it was built in 1916). I have access to people who know how to do things "home improvement-y", so self-installation isn't a huge problem. In my dreams we would install radiant heat in the floors, but that is only if we decide to buy the place.
Any ideas or suggestions help!
*I grew up with baseboard heaters, and my sister's Bionic Woman doll met with a very gruesome fate one night when I left it on the "regeneration bed" a.k.a. baseboard heater. Man, I hate those things.
In the short term, I would have the baseboard heaters checked for safety (by a licensed electrician if necessary) and install programmable thermostats. It really doesn't make sense for anybody but the owner to pay for any significant work. Even if the existing system is horrendously inefficient and the new system relatively cheap, you will likely not recoup your costs for several years. If you decide to move out after a year or two, you have actually lost money while the owner has added value to the property.
posted by indyz at 8:48 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by indyz at 8:48 PM on January 11, 2010
Electric heat of some sort is going to be the only easy option available. Heaters like nickjadlowe linked to or even electric space heaters. But, in most parts of the country, electric is the most expensive way to heat a home. It can be economical in some limited situations, like when you want to heat a small area without running a central heating system to heat the rest of the house. Some also install electric radiant subfloor heating in bathrooms. This is relatively easy to do compared to hot water subfloor heating and may make a bathroom feel comfortable at a lower temperature.
But actually replacing the baseboard heat with some other kind (radiant subfloor, forced air, etc) is a serious retrofit to a house. That's going to be neither cheap nor easy, even if you have free labor. I think the amount of work and expense involved with installing alternative heating would make little sense in a house you're renting, at least without a serious discount in rent (more than first/last/deposit in my mind). You might not even save much money compared to baseboard heat, unless you have electric baseboard. The potential savings are the type that would be amortized over years, not months so, as indyz points out, the benefits are really only for the owner.
There are some cheap things you can do to make the house more efficient, though: rope caulk and weather stripping to seal any drafts, plastic "ghetto" wrap on the windows, heavy curtains, and, of course, turning the heat down and wearing more layers. Beyond that it just wouldn't be prudent to invest much in a house you're renting. If baseboard heating is a deal-breaker you'll be far better off finding a house to rent without baseboard heat.
posted by 6550 at 9:02 PM on January 11, 2010
But actually replacing the baseboard heat with some other kind (radiant subfloor, forced air, etc) is a serious retrofit to a house. That's going to be neither cheap nor easy, even if you have free labor. I think the amount of work and expense involved with installing alternative heating would make little sense in a house you're renting, at least without a serious discount in rent (more than first/last/deposit in my mind). You might not even save much money compared to baseboard heat, unless you have electric baseboard. The potential savings are the type that would be amortized over years, not months so, as indyz points out, the benefits are really only for the owner.
There are some cheap things you can do to make the house more efficient, though: rope caulk and weather stripping to seal any drafts, plastic "ghetto" wrap on the windows, heavy curtains, and, of course, turning the heat down and wearing more layers. Beyond that it just wouldn't be prudent to invest much in a house you're renting. If baseboard heating is a deal-breaker you'll be far better off finding a house to rent without baseboard heat.
posted by 6550 at 9:02 PM on January 11, 2010
All electric resistance-coil heat is equally energy-(in)efficient. It's basically 100%; what it takes out of the wall, it produces in heat in the room.
However, some heaters focus their heat in various ways, so they may feel warmer for the power they consume. Some are radiant (those things shaped like little satellite dishes) and heat objects in front of them directly without heating the air very much; others are convective (little ones with coils and a fan that blows air over them and into the room); others are a mixture of both (oil-filled radiators, which radiate heat and produce hot air via a chimney effect). I'm a particular fan of the third type, oil-filled electric portable radiators, because they don't have as many exposed hot surfaces. The hottest part on them is still well below the combustion point of most household materials (although they might melt plastic, in a pinch).
But whatever you choose I doubt you're going to get a ton of energy savings ... your best bet is just going to be to use small heaters, keep them close to where you want to sit in each room, and turn them on and off as you move about the house. "Preheat" rooms if you know you're heading in there, and turn them off a few minutes before you leave. You can save a lot of electricity this way, versus heating the whole house to some semi-comfortable temperature.
If you are OK with the idea of boring a hole in the side of the house, you might be able to get a biofuel stove installed for less than you might think. I was talking to a dealer a few months ago and the major variable cost driver is the height of your roof (because the stovepipe, "Type A Vent", is expensive), plus whatever stove you want. Installation takes only a couple of hours, and can be done during the winter.
If you got a used stove (Craigslist), that would reduce your outlay ... although it would be totally worth getting a good, EPA-approved high-efficiency wood stove if you can afford it. Go for a non-catalytic model if you can find one that fits the space, and buy the smallest BTU size you need. (It'll be easier to get stoked up to peak efficiently; stoves work best when they are running HOT.)
The cost of a stove with an exterior stovepipe is far less than installing an actual masonry chimney (obviously), and even much less than putting on a manufactured fireplace and chimney. Although it might be a bit late this year for it to pay for itself, in a few seasons I suspect you would recoup your costs, just due to how much cheaper it would be than any form of electric heat. And if you don't want to split and haul firewood around, you can also do pellet stoves that are almost as good. (And then there are corn stoves, but I don't know how "green" they are.) Right now you can get substantial tax credits on biofuel stoves if they are the energy-efficient kind.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:48 AM on January 12, 2010
However, some heaters focus their heat in various ways, so they may feel warmer for the power they consume. Some are radiant (those things shaped like little satellite dishes) and heat objects in front of them directly without heating the air very much; others are convective (little ones with coils and a fan that blows air over them and into the room); others are a mixture of both (oil-filled radiators, which radiate heat and produce hot air via a chimney effect). I'm a particular fan of the third type, oil-filled electric portable radiators, because they don't have as many exposed hot surfaces. The hottest part on them is still well below the combustion point of most household materials (although they might melt plastic, in a pinch).
But whatever you choose I doubt you're going to get a ton of energy savings ... your best bet is just going to be to use small heaters, keep them close to where you want to sit in each room, and turn them on and off as you move about the house. "Preheat" rooms if you know you're heading in there, and turn them off a few minutes before you leave. You can save a lot of electricity this way, versus heating the whole house to some semi-comfortable temperature.
If you are OK with the idea of boring a hole in the side of the house, you might be able to get a biofuel stove installed for less than you might think. I was talking to a dealer a few months ago and the major variable cost driver is the height of your roof (because the stovepipe, "Type A Vent", is expensive), plus whatever stove you want. Installation takes only a couple of hours, and can be done during the winter.
If you got a used stove (Craigslist), that would reduce your outlay ... although it would be totally worth getting a good, EPA-approved high-efficiency wood stove if you can afford it. Go for a non-catalytic model if you can find one that fits the space, and buy the smallest BTU size you need. (It'll be easier to get stoked up to peak efficiently; stoves work best when they are running HOT.)
The cost of a stove with an exterior stovepipe is far less than installing an actual masonry chimney (obviously), and even much less than putting on a manufactured fireplace and chimney. Although it might be a bit late this year for it to pay for itself, in a few seasons I suspect you would recoup your costs, just due to how much cheaper it would be than any form of electric heat. And if you don't want to split and haul firewood around, you can also do pellet stoves that are almost as good. (And then there are corn stoves, but I don't know how "green" they are.) Right now you can get substantial tax credits on biofuel stoves if they are the energy-efficient kind.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:48 AM on January 12, 2010
Not all baseboard is electric. There is hot water baseboard. Some people say hot water heat is better then electric or forced air .
example
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heatingcoolingrepair/ss/heating_types_4.htm
Just make sure there are no leaks and each baseboard gets hot. You could always install a wood stove wich could end up being cheaper.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:43 AM on January 12, 2010
example
http://homerepair.about.com/od/heatingcoolingrepair/ss/heating_types_4.htm
Just make sure there are no leaks and each baseboard gets hot. You could always install a wood stove wich could end up being cheaper.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:43 AM on January 12, 2010
nickjadlowe writes "Any electric heat is going to be one of your least efficient ways to go, so you will be doing yourself a favor to thoroughly insulate"
Electric heat is always 100% efficient (see previous discussion). It's often more expensive than gas because usually electricity costs more per unit than the equivalent energy in gas or oil but you get to use every cent you paid for.
And electric baseboards are as safe or safer than any plug in/portable electric heater.
posted by Mitheral at 7:59 AM on January 12, 2010
Electric heat is always 100% efficient (see previous discussion). It's often more expensive than gas because usually electricity costs more per unit than the equivalent energy in gas or oil but you get to use every cent you paid for.
And electric baseboards are as safe or safer than any plug in/portable electric heater.
posted by Mitheral at 7:59 AM on January 12, 2010
Mitheral: Electric heat is always 100% efficient (see previous discussion). It's often more expensive than gas because usually electricity costs more per unit than the equivalent energy in gas or oil but you get to use every cent you paid for.
Well that is certainly true. Touche. ehem.
I suppose I should have said that if you are looking to extract heat from money, there are probably better ways to go. Burning a hundred dollar bill and a one dollar bill probably result in about the same amount of heat, but...
posted by nickjadlowe at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2010
Well that is certainly true. Touche. ehem.
I suppose I should have said that if you are looking to extract heat from money, there are probably better ways to go. Burning a hundred dollar bill and a one dollar bill probably result in about the same amount of heat, but...
posted by nickjadlowe at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2010
Oh, and I can't believe I forgot to mention this last night ... another option might be a split-system ductless heat pump. This isn't portable, so it's something you'd need to work out an arrangement with the landlord/owner to get installed, but they are pretty neat.
Basically they have a compressor outside, like a regular forced-air heat pump, but then instead of running ducts inside the house, the installer just runs coolant lines (which require less than a 2-3" hole) to a box with a radiator and fan in it. The better systems can drive multiple interior units from one big outdoor compressor, so you could put one on each floor.
Although they run on electricity, they're more than 100% efficient in terms of heat produced inside the house (because it's using electricity to move heat from the outside to the inside, or vice versa, rather than just turning that electricity into heat). The only downside is if you live in a place where the winter temperature drops below 20F or so, you might need a backup method. Heat pumps become progressively less efficient as the temperature drops. But you could just keep the electric baseboards in place and use them as backup if you needed to on the few really cold days; in Seattle I think you'd be just fine.
They're popular in commercial buildings (I first saw them in server rooms and electrical closets for spot cooling), but are becoming more common to see on older houses.
Again I think there are substantial tax credits if you make sure to purchase one that meets the efficiency criteria.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2010
Basically they have a compressor outside, like a regular forced-air heat pump, but then instead of running ducts inside the house, the installer just runs coolant lines (which require less than a 2-3" hole) to a box with a radiator and fan in it. The better systems can drive multiple interior units from one big outdoor compressor, so you could put one on each floor.
Although they run on electricity, they're more than 100% efficient in terms of heat produced inside the house (because it's using electricity to move heat from the outside to the inside, or vice versa, rather than just turning that electricity into heat). The only downside is if you live in a place where the winter temperature drops below 20F or so, you might need a backup method. Heat pumps become progressively less efficient as the temperature drops. But you could just keep the electric baseboards in place and use them as backup if you needed to on the few really cold days; in Seattle I think you'd be just fine.
They're popular in commercial buildings (I first saw them in server rooms and electrical closets for spot cooling), but are becoming more common to see on older houses.
Again I think there are substantial tax credits if you make sure to purchase one that meets the efficiency criteria.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:54 AM on January 12, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Any electric heat is going to be one of your least efficient ways to go, so you will be doing yourself a favor to thoroughly insulate...particularly the window/door openings and ceilings. That said, these work very well when placed properly. They do not burn when touched (warm on bare skin, but not dangerously so) and are relatively inconspicuous when painted to match the wall color. Installation could not be easier. Since they are relatively cheap, they may be a good temporary solution until you decide to invest in a more extensive system.
posted by nickjadlowe at 7:26 PM on January 11, 2010