Am I a bad person if I raid my tithing account?
January 6, 2010 11:29 AM Subscribe
My emergency fund is too small right now. Should I raid my tithing account to supplement it?
Since I started working post-college (2004), I have used direct deposit to automatically put 10% of my gross salary into a checking account designated as my tithing account, and this money typically gets spent each year on missionaries and charities that I feel need my support.
Over the past year or two, I've been holding on to the majority of the money in the account, at least the part that isn't set aside for missionaries I support. The money I would normally spend on charities before the end of the year has turned into a sizable amount of money.
So here's my conundrum. I only have enough savings to last for probably 2-3 months of living expenses should I lose my job, and about the same amount in my tithing account. Would I be a bad person if I decide not to donate my tithing money to charity, and add it to my savings instead? 4-6 months of living expenses would be a much better buffer... but I'm afraid this action would indicate that I am greedy, selfish, and care too much about money.
Since I started working post-college (2004), I have used direct deposit to automatically put 10% of my gross salary into a checking account designated as my tithing account, and this money typically gets spent each year on missionaries and charities that I feel need my support.
Over the past year or two, I've been holding on to the majority of the money in the account, at least the part that isn't set aside for missionaries I support. The money I would normally spend on charities before the end of the year has turned into a sizable amount of money.
So here's my conundrum. I only have enough savings to last for probably 2-3 months of living expenses should I lose my job, and about the same amount in my tithing account. Would I be a bad person if I decide not to donate my tithing money to charity, and add it to my savings instead? 4-6 months of living expenses would be a much better buffer... but I'm afraid this action would indicate that I am greedy, selfish, and care too much about money.
If you truly need it, God will understand.
posted by unixrat at 11:31 AM on January 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by unixrat at 11:31 AM on January 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
You can't pour out of an empty jug. Get yourself into a more secure place. You won't be able to donate to anyone if you yourself require assistance.
posted by availablelight at 11:31 AM on January 6, 2010 [24 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 11:31 AM on January 6, 2010 [24 favorites]
... but I'm afraid this action would indicate that I am greedy, selfish, and care too much about money.
The fact that you have in the past set aside 10% of your gross salary for non-greedy, non-selfish purposes tells me it is not even possible that you're either greedy or selfish.
Maybe try looking at it this way: if your own life becomes a mess because you ran out of money, your ability to donate to your worthy causes is going to be reduced or eliminated for some time.
So there is nothing wrong with using money you planned for charitable purposes to keep yourself afloat instead. It's fine for many reasons, including in the long run it's the best thing for your causes as well, as it will allow you to continue to support them in the future.
posted by FishBike at 11:35 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
The fact that you have in the past set aside 10% of your gross salary for non-greedy, non-selfish purposes tells me it is not even possible that you're either greedy or selfish.
Maybe try looking at it this way: if your own life becomes a mess because you ran out of money, your ability to donate to your worthy causes is going to be reduced or eliminated for some time.
So there is nothing wrong with using money you planned for charitable purposes to keep yourself afloat instead. It's fine for many reasons, including in the long run it's the best thing for your causes as well, as it will allow you to continue to support them in the future.
posted by FishBike at 11:35 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Look at it this way: if you are not financially secure, you risk not being able to help provide support for anyone, or worse, needing charity yourself.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010
Self-sufficiency is a virtue.
posted by sageleaf at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by sageleaf at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd move the money back to yourself. You can always give more money next time, and the fact that you've been donating 10% for so long is admirable. If not having this money is going to make your life substantially difficult, then use it. If you were asking whether you should raid your charity account to buy an XBox, my answer would probably be different, but you're not and the very fact you're at all conflicted about this is a credit to your moral compass.
posted by jaffacakerhubarb at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by jaffacakerhubarb at 11:36 AM on January 6, 2010
I did a quick non-scientific review of financial advice, and the vast majority advised that one have an emergency fund that covers between three and six months of living expenses. I personally think that until you are on the top end of or exceed that advisory, you are practicing "wise personal financial health" rather than "greed". That is, if you save the average amount recommended by most financial advisers, that sum shows no tendency toward "greed". If you save in excess of that, only then, in my opinion, would you be in a position where you would need to look inward and consider whether that was greedy or selfish.
I am NOT saying that saving more than the average recommended amount would be greedy, just that I don't think you can be accused of greed until you have more than that. Assuming, at any rate, that you are not depleting the emergency fund regularly for luxuries, and are truly saving it for an emergency.
posted by bunnycup at 11:37 AM on January 6, 2010
I am NOT saying that saving more than the average recommended amount would be greedy, just that I don't think you can be accused of greed until you have more than that. Assuming, at any rate, that you are not depleting the emergency fund regularly for luxuries, and are truly saving it for an emergency.
posted by bunnycup at 11:37 AM on January 6, 2010
I don't know if this is part of an organized church thing or not. I tend to equate "tithe" with something organized and quasi-required, but you make it sound like something you just decided to do. it's not all that important, but if it is a church thing, then the connection between you and the use of the money is more obvious.
Either way, consider this: Maybe nothing bad will happen, but the whole point of an emergency fund is to assume it will. Should you lose your job or face some other calamity without adequate resources to deal with it, the most likely source of help for you to turn to would be that very same church, or the charities you're supporting. And then you would become a drain on their resources instead of a contributor.
My point being, you're not helping these groups, or just the general cause of charity, if you give away resources you need, and just have to turn around and ask for help when you get in trouble. There's a reason they tell you on airplanes to put your mask on first, and then help others.
I'd say go ahead and build a realistic emergency fund so you know you're taken care of. Then, when you can, start putting money back into your tithing fund.
posted by Naberius at 11:39 AM on January 6, 2010
Either way, consider this: Maybe nothing bad will happen, but the whole point of an emergency fund is to assume it will. Should you lose your job or face some other calamity without adequate resources to deal with it, the most likely source of help for you to turn to would be that very same church, or the charities you're supporting. And then you would become a drain on their resources instead of a contributor.
My point being, you're not helping these groups, or just the general cause of charity, if you give away resources you need, and just have to turn around and ask for help when you get in trouble. There's a reason they tell you on airplanes to put your mask on first, and then help others.
I'd say go ahead and build a realistic emergency fund so you know you're taken care of. Then, when you can, start putting money back into your tithing fund.
posted by Naberius at 11:39 AM on January 6, 2010
Having 4-6 months of living expensed is smart, not greedy. It would be pretty pointless to donate the money to a charity only to have to go back to that charity as the one in need.
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:41 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:41 AM on January 6, 2010
Yes, you've gotten this far being cautious and methodical. No reason to stop now. Supplement your emergency account and go back to your normal routine.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:43 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:43 AM on January 6, 2010
You will not be in a position to help others if you don't help yourself first and how much money you donate to charity does not define your inherent goodness. There will be a time when you are in a better position to support charities in the way you would like, but if now is not the time, cut back on your donations to a level you're comfortable with.
posted by Kimberly at 11:43 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by Kimberly at 11:43 AM on January 6, 2010
In my opinion, if you're concerned about having a savings buffer (and in this economy, that is a reasonable concern), it may prevent you from feeling good about being able to freely give money to the charities and organizations that are important to you.
Taking care of yourself in this respect is not selfish, it's practical and it is ethical. Allow yourself to prioritize a buffer of living expenses so that you can proceed in your day to day life with confidence that you can care for yourself in the event of an emergency. Then any charitable spending you do can be done with an open hand, an open heart, and an eased mind.
posted by padraigin at 11:44 AM on January 6, 2010
Taking care of yourself in this respect is not selfish, it's practical and it is ethical. Allow yourself to prioritize a buffer of living expenses so that you can proceed in your day to day life with confidence that you can care for yourself in the event of an emergency. Then any charitable spending you do can be done with an open hand, an open heart, and an eased mind.
posted by padraigin at 11:44 AM on January 6, 2010
You know how flight attendants tell parents to put their own oxygen masks on before putting them on their kids? You can't take care of others if you're not able to take care of yourself. I've known at least one person who was deep in debt, in part, because their self-image simply couldn't accept cutting back on charitable donations.
To help you keep your moral and emotional equilibrium, give of your time instead of donating money right now. I'm sure there are plenty of volunteer opportunities open to you.
posted by maudlin at 11:44 AM on January 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
To help you keep your moral and emotional equilibrium, give of your time instead of donating money right now. I'm sure there are plenty of volunteer opportunities open to you.
posted by maudlin at 11:44 AM on January 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
maudlin has a great idea - give of your time instead! Once you have your emergency fun at a level you feel comfortable with, then go ahead and start back with the monetary donations.
posted by Sassyfras at 11:48 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by Sassyfras at 11:48 AM on January 6, 2010
It wouldn't indicate that to me, but I am not a member of your religious community (my religious community doesn't do tithing or missionaries). If you want to know what people in your religious community think about this, ask them, yes?
My own ethical compass says, as maudlin put it, "Put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others." But that's my ethical compass; if you are trying to live by the ethical compass of a particular religious tradition, it's probably best to check that out with others who participate in your tradition.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:02 PM on January 6, 2010
My own ethical compass says, as maudlin put it, "Put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others." But that's my ethical compass; if you are trying to live by the ethical compass of a particular religious tradition, it's probably best to check that out with others who participate in your tradition.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:02 PM on January 6, 2010
Best answer: What if you just leave it there in your tithing account while you continue to build up your emergency savings? So it's still designated as charity, but to be given later.
If you have a true emergency, then you can use it to keep yourself afloat. If you don't have an emergency, it will keep building up, as will your emergency fund. When you get to the point that you think your regular finances are in order, then you can give the whole tithing fund away as a lump sum.
posted by CathyG at 12:04 PM on January 6, 2010 [11 favorites]
If you have a true emergency, then you can use it to keep yourself afloat. If you don't have an emergency, it will keep building up, as will your emergency fund. When you get to the point that you think your regular finances are in order, then you can give the whole tithing fund away as a lump sum.
posted by CathyG at 12:04 PM on January 6, 2010 [11 favorites]
I was just going to suggest what CathyG said -- leave the money in the tithing account.
Continue to amass money in both accounts.
When the total of emergency + tithing accounts = 6 months of buffer for you, then start to donate from the tithing account.
When the total of emergency money = 6 months of buffer, then you are free to donate the rest from the tithing account.
posted by j at 12:17 PM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Continue to amass money in both accounts.
When the total of emergency + tithing accounts = 6 months of buffer for you, then start to donate from the tithing account.
When the total of emergency money = 6 months of buffer, then you are free to donate the rest from the tithing account.
posted by j at 12:17 PM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you feel guilty about moving that 10% of your salary to your own accounts, then maybe make up for it by volunteering 10% of your time to a cause you believe in / a church you participate in. Not every gift needs to be in cash.
posted by xingcat at 12:22 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by xingcat at 12:22 PM on January 6, 2010
Yeah, CathyG has a really good idea. I'm a Christian and I tithe, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of telling you to take the tithing money for yourself. However, I'm equally uncomfortable with the idea of wagging my finger at you and telling you to give it away.
The Christian position is that it isn't your money - the 10% is God's money and you are the steward of it. Actually, it's all God's, but you know what I mean.
In my experience, when I step out in faith and give away money, I usually get a surprising amount back. A bigger tax refund, an unexpected windfall, etc. It happens like clockwork, and I've heard many other people say the same thing.
Plus, giving away money in times of insecurity feels great. Even if it's only a few dollars, giving money away feels like a big "HA!" in the face of fear and materialism.
posted by selfmedicating at 12:47 PM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
The Christian position is that it isn't your money - the 10% is God's money and you are the steward of it. Actually, it's all God's, but you know what I mean.
In my experience, when I step out in faith and give away money, I usually get a surprising amount back. A bigger tax refund, an unexpected windfall, etc. It happens like clockwork, and I've heard many other people say the same thing.
Plus, giving away money in times of insecurity feels great. Even if it's only a few dollars, giving money away feels like a big "HA!" in the face of fear and materialism.
posted by selfmedicating at 12:47 PM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Mod note: few comments removed - take your personal opinions about funding missionaries straight to metatalk, thanks
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2010
Most (reasonable) faiths will implore you to "give all you can". If all you can give right now is zero, then so be it. You can return to being generous when you have. Don't feel guilty, but let your desire to return to charitable giving be a positive driver for bringing yourself to a better financial position.
posted by Citrus at 1:05 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by Citrus at 1:05 PM on January 6, 2010
What if you left all the money where it is now? Keep your savings account and your tithing account. Don't touch either one. Donate time rather than money this year. If you lose your job or have some type of financial emergency, you turn to your savings first and then, if necessary, move on to your tithing account. If you keep your job and build your savings account back up, then you make a late donation from your tithing account to whatever organization you had planned to support.
You don't need to feel guilty about this. Instead, consider taking a step back from money as an indicator of good or bad character. Giving 10% of your literal dollar income doesn't make you a good person and waiting to give doesn't make you a bad person. You can find ways to be generous and moral, or miserly and wrong without writing a single check.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2010
You don't need to feel guilty about this. Instead, consider taking a step back from money as an indicator of good or bad character. Giving 10% of your literal dollar income doesn't make you a good person and waiting to give doesn't make you a bad person. You can find ways to be generous and moral, or miserly and wrong without writing a single check.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your opinions on this. I really appreciate your perspectives. I especially liked what CathyG and maudlin suggested - giving time now rather than money, and delaying the spending/moving of the tithing money until needed.
posted by CallMeWhiskers at 2:03 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by CallMeWhiskers at 2:03 PM on January 6, 2010
If you're not immediately disbursing your tithing money, it is effectively your savings anyway. In a real emergency--you're on the verge of foreclosure or whatever--you could tap it. If I were in your position, I would keep the tithe money where it is, however you demarcate it, and continue saving into your emergency fund. Once your emergency fund is in place, go ahead and disburse the tithing money--since you now have another source of "true emergency" savings.
I see I'm repeating what was said above. But it seems like a good solution to me.
That said, it really is OK to cut back on giving if you need to. My partner and I cut back dramatically the last couple of years during a serious financial crisis, and now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel from that, we are really looking forward to giving more again. During that time, I've given time as treasurer of my monthly meeting (what you non-Quakers would call a church), we've let a young man live in our house rent-free during a time of transition in his life, I've helped a friend during the illness and death of her mother...we've done good in lots of non-financial ways.
posted by not that girl at 2:04 PM on January 6, 2010
I see I'm repeating what was said above. But it seems like a good solution to me.
That said, it really is OK to cut back on giving if you need to. My partner and I cut back dramatically the last couple of years during a serious financial crisis, and now that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel from that, we are really looking forward to giving more again. During that time, I've given time as treasurer of my monthly meeting (what you non-Quakers would call a church), we've let a young man live in our house rent-free during a time of transition in his life, I've helped a friend during the illness and death of her mother...we've done good in lots of non-financial ways.
posted by not that girl at 2:04 PM on January 6, 2010
Giving out of abundance and giving without a sacrifice in lifestyle is not giving at all. This is taught frequently throughout the Bible.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:38 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:38 PM on January 6, 2010
I'm not sure of the particulars of your spirituality or religious path, but could you tithe time instead of money? Instead of X$ a week, could you give X amount of time a week instead?
posted by spinifex23 at 3:41 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by spinifex23 at 3:41 PM on January 6, 2010
What does your personal morality say about the issue? What are the reasons you donate this money? Are those reasons more or less important than having a massive safety net?
If it was me, I would probably strike a balance and reduce the tithing to maybe 8 or 9%, and use the difference to replenish the buffer-zone account.
Also, you already have done what you say might make you a bad person. You are holding onto money that you intended to give away. It isn't charity if you haven't given it away yet...
posted by gjc at 5:20 PM on January 6, 2010
If it was me, I would probably strike a balance and reduce the tithing to maybe 8 or 9%, and use the difference to replenish the buffer-zone account.
Also, you already have done what you say might make you a bad person. You are holding onto money that you intended to give away. It isn't charity if you haven't given it away yet...
posted by gjc at 5:20 PM on January 6, 2010
It's admirable to give 10%. Delaying the gift because life is precarious is not unreasonable. But, delaying the giving may turn into a habit, so assess how important it is to you to give to charity. I think you will be happier if you pare expenses, and try to give at least some percentage. Even 2% is worth doing.
posted by theora55 at 5:38 PM on January 6, 2010
posted by theora55 at 5:38 PM on January 6, 2010
"The best way to help the poor is to not be one of them."
If you were to lose your job, run out of savings, and end up homeless or transient, you will have a very difficult time pulling yourself out of that hole and ever be in a position to give to charity again.
You have to take care of yourself before you're able to take care of others. If your current financial position makes you feel insecure, hold onto the money for now and donate more later when you are more secure.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:04 PM on January 6, 2010
If you were to lose your job, run out of savings, and end up homeless or transient, you will have a very difficult time pulling yourself out of that hole and ever be in a position to give to charity again.
You have to take care of yourself before you're able to take care of others. If your current financial position makes you feel insecure, hold onto the money for now and donate more later when you are more secure.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:04 PM on January 6, 2010
I'm with CathyG, j and Meg_Murry.
I think you'd regret it if you moved it.
posted by VC Drake at 9:14 PM on January 6, 2010
I think you'd regret it if you moved it.
posted by VC Drake at 9:14 PM on January 6, 2010
If the following story helps you, here it is.
For some reason, your story reminds me of a story that a former work mate once told me during Passover, about a group of people in one of the Nazi camps; they had been offered something to eat, but it wasn't 100% kosher. They went to the Rabbi and asked -- on the one hand, we're finally getting fed for the first time in forever, but on the other hand, this isn't Kosher, so we technically shouldn't be eating it. What should we do?
The Rabbi said, basically, that God would probably rather that they be alive than dead, so if they ate something that wasn't kosher under these conditions, He'd understand.
The bottom line, as I took it, is that God wants us to live. What "live" means is up to you -- whether it means being financially stable enough for you to plan to give more later, or whether it means going hungry because you know that if you didn't give to others, your very soul would go sick. Whatever will make you suffer least, is what you should do.
But it sounds like you've found the perfect compromise to satisfy both.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 PM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
For some reason, your story reminds me of a story that a former work mate once told me during Passover, about a group of people in one of the Nazi camps; they had been offered something to eat, but it wasn't 100% kosher. They went to the Rabbi and asked -- on the one hand, we're finally getting fed for the first time in forever, but on the other hand, this isn't Kosher, so we technically shouldn't be eating it. What should we do?
The Rabbi said, basically, that God would probably rather that they be alive than dead, so if they ate something that wasn't kosher under these conditions, He'd understand.
The bottom line, as I took it, is that God wants us to live. What "live" means is up to you -- whether it means being financially stable enough for you to plan to give more later, or whether it means going hungry because you know that if you didn't give to others, your very soul would go sick. Whatever will make you suffer least, is what you should do.
But it sounds like you've found the perfect compromise to satisfy both.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 PM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:30 AM on January 6, 2010