A moral dilemna
January 5, 2010 9:38 PM Subscribe
What would you do in this situation?
A lifelong friend of mine is married to an ex-girlfriend. The ex-girlfriend was also a very good friend of mine. I spent years staying out of things, because I thought my friend had her back.
I found out about a year ago that there had been multiple affairs on his part.
She was in the middle of her second pregnancy at the time.
To make things more confusing, I still communicate with her, and we were very, very close. I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her. I thought he would watch out for her. In his own way, he has, but I am not happy about the infidelity.
To muddle things further, I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me, and just about one step from leaving her husband for other reasons. I have actually advised that she not do that. I have been trying to keep them together, because I think things would end up better for her.
In summation: I have information that could end a relationship. I have been struggling not to pull any of this information out. I am just sitting on it. Some advice would be good.
A lifelong friend of mine is married to an ex-girlfriend. The ex-girlfriend was also a very good friend of mine. I spent years staying out of things, because I thought my friend had her back.
I found out about a year ago that there had been multiple affairs on his part.
She was in the middle of her second pregnancy at the time.
To make things more confusing, I still communicate with her, and we were very, very close. I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her. I thought he would watch out for her. In his own way, he has, but I am not happy about the infidelity.
To muddle things further, I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me, and just about one step from leaving her husband for other reasons. I have actually advised that she not do that. I have been trying to keep them together, because I think things would end up better for her.
In summation: I have information that could end a relationship. I have been struggling not to pull any of this information out. I am just sitting on it. Some advice would be good.
What I would (or might do) is probably do is all of the crazy stuff you are considering.
What I (you) should do is nothing.
I say go out and meet lots of new people and hopefully along the way you will fall in love with someone wonderful.
posted by snowjoe at 9:48 PM on January 5, 2010
What I (you) should do is nothing.
I say go out and meet lots of new people and hopefully along the way you will fall in love with someone wonderful.
posted by snowjoe at 9:48 PM on January 5, 2010
I have been struggling not to pull any of this information out.
Because you want to do the Right and Honorable Thing or because it may (may) further the mutual love that you perceive is there?
Mainly because the Right and Honorable Thing is what youcancallmeal stated above. The latter is a major, major dick move and possibly the worst kind of stepping stone toward a relationship.
That being said, you asked what I would do. I would come to terms with the fact that I'm in way too deep, deny my ability to make the right decision and get some advice from people whom I trust to help me and whom I trust to not drop the dime on any of this.
posted by griphus at 9:53 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Because you want to do the Right and Honorable Thing or because it may (may) further the mutual love that you perceive is there?
Mainly because the Right and Honorable Thing is what youcancallmeal stated above. The latter is a major, major dick move and possibly the worst kind of stepping stone toward a relationship.
That being said, you asked what I would do. I would come to terms with the fact that I'm in way too deep, deny my ability to make the right decision and get some advice from people whom I trust to help me and whom I trust to not drop the dime on any of this.
posted by griphus at 9:53 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would order pizza and start in on a six-pack and pretend to know nothing about anything.
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:55 PM on January 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:55 PM on January 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
Depends on the information. If it is continued infidelity, I'm not sure telling is good. If there is personal risk to her, then tell. Complications come from whether or not your lifelong friend told you in confidence.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:56 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 9:56 PM on January 5, 2010
"I don't think I can give you advice on this." That's what you tell her when she asks.
And then stay the hell out of it.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:03 PM on January 5, 2010
And then stay the hell out of it.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:03 PM on January 5, 2010
A lifelong friend of mine is married to an ex-girlfriend. The ex-girlfriend was also a very good friend of mine. I spent years staying out of things, because I thought my friend had her back.
I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her. I thought he would watch out for her.
To muddle things further, I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me, and just about one step from leaving her husband for other reasons. I have actually advised that she not do that. I have been trying to keep them together, because I think things would end up better for her.
Ugg... are we not in the 21st century? Your friend is not your property or ward. It's not your job to push her into relationships because you think they will be good for her. Women are not helpless, delicate creatures. She's her own person and can make her own evaluations of what situation is best.
She wants your advice and honest opinion. Either give it or avoid the situation, but don't be duplicitous in a misguided attempt to shelter her.
posted by sbutler at 10:11 PM on January 5, 2010 [21 favorites]
I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her. I thought he would watch out for her.
To muddle things further, I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me, and just about one step from leaving her husband for other reasons. I have actually advised that she not do that. I have been trying to keep them together, because I think things would end up better for her.
Ugg... are we not in the 21st century? Your friend is not your property or ward. It's not your job to push her into relationships because you think they will be good for her. Women are not helpless, delicate creatures. She's her own person and can make her own evaluations of what situation is best.
She wants your advice and honest opinion. Either give it or avoid the situation, but don't be duplicitous in a misguided attempt to shelter her.
posted by sbutler at 10:11 PM on January 5, 2010 [21 favorites]
I think since your ex is considering leaving him anyway she deserves to know the truth about her husband's affairs. If it were all water under the bridge and the relationship were going great I would probably stay out of it. Tell your friend to tell her the truth or you will. This is easier said than done, and I'm sorry you're in such a tough situation while trying to do the right thing.
posted by xammerboy at 10:12 PM on January 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by xammerboy at 10:12 PM on January 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
i would tell her. i would want to know. maybe drop the bomb on her as gently as you can, then leave her be so she can figure things out for herself. be available as a friend if she needs you, but don't head into any romantic confessions territory until the dust has settled and a lot of time has passed.
posted by quiteliterally at 10:15 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by quiteliterally at 10:15 PM on January 5, 2010
I don't know whether or not you should tell her, but do consider your source of information. How do you know the husband is unfaithful? Is it rumor? Did he tell you? Is it second or third hand? Make sure your information is rock solid if you decide to tell your friend (the wife).
posted by JenMarie at 10:30 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by JenMarie at 10:30 PM on January 5, 2010
Do you have any mutual friends who know this couple and would be privvy to the affairs? Ask them to pass the information on. As a concerned friend, you should let her know something this serious. As someone with a huge stake in the outcome, it shouldn't be you who lets her know.
posted by twirlypen at 10:37 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by twirlypen at 10:37 PM on January 5, 2010
MeFi always surprises me with the "don't tell" responses in Ask questions that involve infidelity, but seriously TELL HER. She's at risk for STDs at the very least. What if her husband had caught something that she later passed onto her baby? If you're a friend then you tell her .
However, here's the hard part for you -- after you tell her, put your own feelings aside and do not pursue her. It's not up to you to decide how she lives her life, and your attitude is more than a bit patronizing. If eventually, she comes to you wanting something, then maybe. But basically be her friend if you'd like, but no more. Don't try to swoop in and be a knight in shining armor, as that will come off disastrously.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:44 PM on January 5, 2010 [21 favorites]
However, here's the hard part for you -- after you tell her, put your own feelings aside and do not pursue her. It's not up to you to decide how she lives her life, and your attitude is more than a bit patronizing. If eventually, she comes to you wanting something, then maybe. But basically be her friend if you'd like, but no more. Don't try to swoop in and be a knight in shining armor, as that will come off disastrously.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:44 PM on January 5, 2010 [21 favorites]
1. Don't tell her about the apparent affairs.
2. Don't say anything to either of them, actually.
3. Get the fuck away from the whole situation, because dude, seriously? There has never EVER been a situation like this that has ended with you getting the girl and nobody getting hurt. Here, Imma fast forward to what happens if you get involved with shit:
Oh, look, that chick is living with you now, but she's seeing other guys and you're taking care of the kids, and your former friend comes to your house one day and sets himself on fire!
RUN
AWAY
NOW!
posted by clockzero at 10:49 PM on January 5, 2010
2. Don't say anything to either of them, actually.
3. Get the fuck away from the whole situation, because dude, seriously? There has never EVER been a situation like this that has ended with you getting the girl and nobody getting hurt. Here, Imma fast forward to what happens if you get involved with shit:
Oh, look, that chick is living with you now, but she's seeing other guys and you're taking care of the kids, and your former friend comes to your house one day and sets himself on fire!
RUN
AWAY
NOW!
posted by clockzero at 10:49 PM on January 5, 2010
Whatever else you do-- tell or don't tell-- stop trying to "keep them together," because that's a crap thing to do to someone you're allegedly so close with, trying to keep her with her adulterous husband.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:28 PM on January 5, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:28 PM on January 5, 2010 [6 favorites]
She has a right to know. You knowing about his affairs and not telling her is keeping information from her that she has a right to know. The longer you've known, and the longer you continue to know, about his affairs without telling her, the longer you deprive her of her right to make decisions based on facts that she has a right to know.
It's not up to you to try to keep them together or to try to pry them apart; it's her decision to make whether she wants to be with him (unfaithful, and also in some other way, unsuitable; but apparently otherwise okay); with you (paralyzed by indecision, complicit for about a year now in her husband's deception, and wracked by guilt over your feelings for her, her feelings for you, and the inherent conflict of interest in telling her); or with neither of you.
Were it she asking the question, I'd tell her that whichever of you two she can forgive for his weaknesses, be with; otherwise, pick someone else. Were it him, I'd tell him to confess to her, thank you (the silent, guilt-ridden buddy) for not telling her, but that you (the buddy) should have told her because it is his (the husband's) sins that you (the buddy) are hiding, which is not something that he has the right to expect of you, even to ask of you. "Bros before hos" is the philosophy of fuckwits. It's one of the ways you can tell who they are.
But since it's you asking, and you are now in a mess because of what he did: man up and go confront him. Tell him that you have sat on this for a year, that it is eating you up inside, that he needs to make his decision real soon now, like within a day, as to whether he tells his wife that he's been cheating on her for years, or whether you tell her; and that whether she stays with him, comes to you, or leaves you both for better men--who are around, not to put too fine a point on it--is entirely her decision to make. And to make that decision, she needs to know the truth.
How he reacts to that will show what kind of person he is.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:34 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's not up to you to try to keep them together or to try to pry them apart; it's her decision to make whether she wants to be with him (unfaithful, and also in some other way, unsuitable; but apparently otherwise okay); with you (paralyzed by indecision, complicit for about a year now in her husband's deception, and wracked by guilt over your feelings for her, her feelings for you, and the inherent conflict of interest in telling her); or with neither of you.
Were it she asking the question, I'd tell her that whichever of you two she can forgive for his weaknesses, be with; otherwise, pick someone else. Were it him, I'd tell him to confess to her, thank you (the silent, guilt-ridden buddy) for not telling her, but that you (the buddy) should have told her because it is his (the husband's) sins that you (the buddy) are hiding, which is not something that he has the right to expect of you, even to ask of you. "Bros before hos" is the philosophy of fuckwits. It's one of the ways you can tell who they are.
But since it's you asking, and you are now in a mess because of what he did: man up and go confront him. Tell him that you have sat on this for a year, that it is eating you up inside, that he needs to make his decision real soon now, like within a day, as to whether he tells his wife that he's been cheating on her for years, or whether you tell her; and that whether she stays with him, comes to you, or leaves you both for better men--who are around, not to put too fine a point on it--is entirely her decision to make. And to make that decision, she needs to know the truth.
How he reacts to that will show what kind of person he is.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:34 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
What would you do if you weren't in love with her?
posted by 26.2 at 11:47 PM on January 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by 26.2 at 11:47 PM on January 5, 2010 [3 favorites]
My husband was cheating on me for a long, long time. No one told me. That my friends kept this secret from me was more hurtful than the infidelity. The cheater, you can dismiss, but when they are gone you are left with your friends; and if they knew and didn't tell you, it feels like they took a side against you.
I'm always in favor of telling (obviously).
The tricky thing here is that you have ulterior motives, whether intentional or not. If you tell you must be VERY careful to be as neutral as possible. Be there for her but try to do so in public places, for example, where there can be no suspicion of you trying to get her alone to, er, "console" her.
posted by Billegible at 12:02 AM on January 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
I'm always in favor of telling (obviously).
The tricky thing here is that you have ulterior motives, whether intentional or not. If you tell you must be VERY careful to be as neutral as possible. Be there for her but try to do so in public places, for example, where there can be no suspicion of you trying to get her alone to, er, "console" her.
posted by Billegible at 12:02 AM on January 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
I have actually advised that she not do that. I have been trying to keep them together, because I think things would end up better for her.
1. Don't be making decisions for her. Wrong. She's an adult. She gets to decide this for herself.
b. You don't have all the information about her marriage and values to make a reasonable decision on that matter.
iii. Neither does she.
Either tell the truth and stop contact with her for some time (1 - 2 years), so there's no rebound effect / consolation prize OR listen to her as a friend, and offer no advice. Of course when she finds out you knew and didn't tell you, she'll never forgive you. You could also tell him to tell her, under the threat that you will, but that probably won't work.
posted by b33j at 12:31 AM on January 6, 2010
1. Don't be making decisions for her. Wrong. She's an adult. She gets to decide this for herself.
b. You don't have all the information about her marriage and values to make a reasonable decision on that matter.
iii. Neither does she.
Either tell the truth and stop contact with her for some time (1 - 2 years), so there's no rebound effect / consolation prize OR listen to her as a friend, and offer no advice. Of course when she finds out you knew and didn't tell you, she'll never forgive you. You could also tell him to tell her, under the threat that you will, but that probably won't work.
posted by b33j at 12:31 AM on January 6, 2010
This really isn't your business. If, as I suspect, you're looking to get back with her/sleep with her, this is the wrong way to go about it. Stop meddling, gossiping and spending your time with someone you're in love with when they're in a romantic relationship that doesn't involve you, and possibly rethink the control issues you have while you're at it.
posted by saturnine at 12:38 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by saturnine at 12:38 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
My friend Bob married young and divorced damn near as young as he married. I'd never really gotten close to his girlfriend/then wife because it was at that place and time in my life "bros before hos" and no, I'm not real proud of that, just how it was. I was young, dumb, unprincipled. Etc and etc.
Fast forward a few years. I married and moved on my way, out into the stream of it all, then moved back, then divorced, blah blah -- life in the big city. In that intervening time I'd picked up about three principles, or four. Bob has remarried, a really fine woman. I told Bob that if I was going to be in their lives other than as the most casual of casual 'aquaintances' that I needed to know -- was this real? Was he going to hang around in this one, not play the game. He said that this one was for real. So I befriended her; she was great, a fine woman, I liked her, we became buddies.
Then. Bob calls me one day, he's downtown, says he needs me to cover for him, I think he even wanted to use my condo, the prick, he expects the same game to be on. It wasn't. Sadly, I didn't tell his wife what was up; hadn't picked up quite enough principles yet. But I immediately cut Bob loose, no longer my friend, no way, done. That's where it's at today, too, thirty years later -- he's reached out some, time to time, over the years, I say hi, then say bye.
I think she would like to know. It's possible -- dependant upon *your* principles -- that you should tell her. Only you know your principles.
I liked the idea posted upthread, approaching your life-long friend and saying "Hey pal, you spill the beans or I'm going to." It'll take some jam, for sure. You'll lose that "friend" but IMO that's a good thing. If a person will steal for you, they'll steal from you ie a thief is a thief, don't think that you're immune just cuz you're friends. Same thing here -- he deceives others that are close to him (the mother of his kids; what a dickbrain) he'll damn sure deceive you. Not a friend you want. IMO.
Last. Use my handy-dandy three-part algorithm to find out if you are trying to run a game by telling her the score, to get to the heart of it all. As follows:
First: Ask yourself "What am I doing here; what is my motive?" and see what comes up.
Then: Ask yourself: "What am I really doing here; what is my real motive?" -- you'll get a closer cut toward the truth.
Last: Ask yourself: "What the fuck is really going on here? What the fuck am I *really* doing here? What the fuck is my real goddamn motive?" If you ask that question, sharply, and best asked on paper ie write it down -- I can so often lie to myself but put a pen into my hands and the truth often flows out -- if you ask yourself that question in that way, you maybe will find out who is running this particular piece of your show, the ethical you or the you that wants to slide your hand back into her drawers, slide your heart into hers. And: If you run all three of these past someone impartial but whom you really trust to tell you the whole truth and nothing but, that's help even more.
She's got a right to expect you to be a good friend; you've told her many times in countless ways that you are one. You're not, not now, not yet, not that I can see. Don't be a dick. Be her friend. Make sure she knows, if not from you from someone.
And if, over time, it's your arms she ends up in, who can comfort her more than someone who has known her and knows her situation intimately; yeah, it's not perfect but if you can find me someone who has done relationships "just as the self-help books say we ought to" I'll buy you a hat. In all my years I've only known one couple that's done it "right."
My $.02
posted by dancestoblue at 12:53 AM on January 6, 2010 [10 favorites]
Fast forward a few years. I married and moved on my way, out into the stream of it all, then moved back, then divorced, blah blah -- life in the big city. In that intervening time I'd picked up about three principles, or four. Bob has remarried, a really fine woman. I told Bob that if I was going to be in their lives other than as the most casual of casual 'aquaintances' that I needed to know -- was this real? Was he going to hang around in this one, not play the game. He said that this one was for real. So I befriended her; she was great, a fine woman, I liked her, we became buddies.
Then. Bob calls me one day, he's downtown, says he needs me to cover for him, I think he even wanted to use my condo, the prick, he expects the same game to be on. It wasn't. Sadly, I didn't tell his wife what was up; hadn't picked up quite enough principles yet. But I immediately cut Bob loose, no longer my friend, no way, done. That's where it's at today, too, thirty years later -- he's reached out some, time to time, over the years, I say hi, then say bye.
I think she would like to know. It's possible -- dependant upon *your* principles -- that you should tell her. Only you know your principles.
I liked the idea posted upthread, approaching your life-long friend and saying "Hey pal, you spill the beans or I'm going to." It'll take some jam, for sure. You'll lose that "friend" but IMO that's a good thing. If a person will steal for you, they'll steal from you ie a thief is a thief, don't think that you're immune just cuz you're friends. Same thing here -- he deceives others that are close to him (the mother of his kids; what a dickbrain) he'll damn sure deceive you. Not a friend you want. IMO.
Last. Use my handy-dandy three-part algorithm to find out if you are trying to run a game by telling her the score, to get to the heart of it all. As follows:
First: Ask yourself "What am I doing here; what is my motive?" and see what comes up.
Then: Ask yourself: "What am I really doing here; what is my real motive?" -- you'll get a closer cut toward the truth.
Last: Ask yourself: "What the fuck is really going on here? What the fuck am I *really* doing here? What the fuck is my real goddamn motive?" If you ask that question, sharply, and best asked on paper ie write it down -- I can so often lie to myself but put a pen into my hands and the truth often flows out -- if you ask yourself that question in that way, you maybe will find out who is running this particular piece of your show, the ethical you or the you that wants to slide your hand back into her drawers, slide your heart into hers. And: If you run all three of these past someone impartial but whom you really trust to tell you the whole truth and nothing but, that's help even more.
She's got a right to expect you to be a good friend; you've told her many times in countless ways that you are one. You're not, not now, not yet, not that I can see. Don't be a dick. Be her friend. Make sure she knows, if not from you from someone.
And if, over time, it's your arms she ends up in, who can comfort her more than someone who has known her and knows her situation intimately; yeah, it's not perfect but if you can find me someone who has done relationships "just as the self-help books say we ought to" I'll buy you a hat. In all my years I've only known one couple that's done it "right."
My $.02
posted by dancestoblue at 12:53 AM on January 6, 2010 [10 favorites]
1. If she doesn't know about the infidelity, she needs to. Just not from you.
2. In your position, I'd punch her husband. Unless she's the type to do it herself, which would be better. (This is likely an actionable offense, however, and jail of any type is really expensive these days.)
3. I took a class on Divorce and Children in college. This may have changed, but the waybackwhen point of the class was this: children are better off with the temporary misery of a divorced home than they are with the continually building misery of an unhappy home. If she's ready to leave, support her - and get out of her life. Your feelings are WAY less important than hers right now.
posted by medea42 at 1:48 AM on January 6, 2010
2. In your position, I'd punch her husband. Unless she's the type to do it herself, which would be better. (This is likely an actionable offense, however, and jail of any type is really expensive these days.)
3. I took a class on Divorce and Children in college. This may have changed, but the waybackwhen point of the class was this: children are better off with the temporary misery of a divorced home than they are with the continually building misery of an unhappy home. If she's ready to leave, support her - and get out of her life. Your feelings are WAY less important than hers right now.
posted by medea42 at 1:48 AM on January 6, 2010
I would click [more inside] then agree with mostly everyone else.
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:00 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:00 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Let them figure out whats going on
This is not your business
What I (you) should do is nothing.
Don't tell her about the apparent affairs.
Listen to me carefully because I'm only going to say this once: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
This is not a complicated issue. This is a simple issue. Is this person's health at risk? Yes. Are you this person's friend? Yes. You have an obligation to look out for friends in need. Does she have the right to tell you to butt out? Of course. But to my knowledge she hasn't done that. Has she asked you to stay out of her relationship issues? It doesn't sound like it.
Bottom line is this: you're way more concerned about yourself and how you're perceived than you are about her well-being. That's not the hallmark of a good friend. If you care about this person, help this person.
posted by jock@law at 2:50 AM on January 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is not your business
What I (you) should do is nothing.
Don't tell her about the apparent affairs.
Listen to me carefully because I'm only going to say this once: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
This is not a complicated issue. This is a simple issue. Is this person's health at risk? Yes. Are you this person's friend? Yes. You have an obligation to look out for friends in need. Does she have the right to tell you to butt out? Of course. But to my knowledge she hasn't done that. Has she asked you to stay out of her relationship issues? It doesn't sound like it.
Bottom line is this: you're way more concerned about yourself and how you're perceived than you are about her well-being. That's not the hallmark of a good friend. If you care about this person, help this person.
posted by jock@law at 2:50 AM on January 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
not sure if it's been said, but how about this?
The guy is a "lifelong friend" of yours so just be straight and say to him "Tell her about the affairs or I will"
This will then go either of 2 ways.
1. She finds out from him, and decides what she wants to do.
2. She finds out from you, and decides what she wants to do.
simples
ps.
IMO, (not AskMefi mode) the fact that you knew about this infidelity over a year ago, while they had a 2nd kid together and then advising her that she stay with a cheating husband and father....there is NO CHANCE she'll be running to your open arms.
posted by MarvinJ at 3:23 AM on January 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
The guy is a "lifelong friend" of yours so just be straight and say to him "Tell her about the affairs or I will"
This will then go either of 2 ways.
1. She finds out from him, and decides what she wants to do.
2. She finds out from you, and decides what she wants to do.
simples
ps.
IMO, (not AskMefi mode) the fact that you knew about this infidelity over a year ago, while they had a 2nd kid together and then advising her that she stay with a cheating husband and father....there is NO CHANCE she'll be running to your open arms.
posted by MarvinJ at 3:23 AM on January 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Yup, there is a very good chance she will be very unhappy with you, to the point of wanting nothing to do with you, simultaneously because you told her at all (people do often shoot the messenger in this case) and because you kept it hidden for so long. Telling her is probably the right thing to do--and it will probably lose you two friends anyway. That's life.
posted by K.P. at 3:31 AM on January 6, 2010
posted by K.P. at 3:31 AM on January 6, 2010
I think you should tell her. And apologize profusely for not telling her before now. As your friend, she is going to feel betrayed as fuck if she finds out you knew and didn't tell her.
It will be even worse if she finds out after (if/when) you and she get together. She's already been betrayed by her husband, do you really want to be the other guy she thought she thought had her back but didn't?
This is not to say that she might not be angry with BOTH of you for a time, and there's a good chance neither you nor your friend will end up being with her. But if you really care about her, do the right thing for her regardless of whether it might not turn out well for you.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:32 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
It will be even worse if she finds out after (if/when) you and she get together. She's already been betrayed by her husband, do you really want to be the other guy she thought she thought had her back but didn't?
This is not to say that she might not be angry with BOTH of you for a time, and there's a good chance neither you nor your friend will end up being with her. But if you really care about her, do the right thing for her regardless of whether it might not turn out well for you.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:32 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've always wondered about those supposed friends who know about infidelity and don't tell people. I always hope that none of my friends are that gutless and fearful that they would actually stay quiet while I get shafted.
It doesn't matter whether or not you're trying to get in her pants, tell her what you know (or what you think you know).
You're her friend right?
posted by HopStopDon'tShop at 4:25 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
It doesn't matter whether or not you're trying to get in her pants, tell her what you know (or what you think you know).
You're her friend right?
posted by HopStopDon'tShop at 4:25 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
You love them both. I understand why this is hard. You want what's best for each of them, and they're in a mutual hurt.
Is telling her so bad for him that you shouldn't do it? Is not telling her so good for him that it justifies the possible health or emotional risks to her? Only your knowledge of their personalities can say.
I'd say get into the conversation with her. Feel her out about how they are, then perhaps relay your suspicions, and be open about the fact that your perceptions may very well be clouded by your strong feelings for her, which you have to own up to.
Also, consider: are you interested in parenting her children? That's at stake in this fantasy of being "in love" with another man's partner, whatever your history with her. You'd better care about her enough to want that to even begin this, I figure.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:29 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is telling her so bad for him that you shouldn't do it? Is not telling her so good for him that it justifies the possible health or emotional risks to her? Only your knowledge of their personalities can say.
I'd say get into the conversation with her. Feel her out about how they are, then perhaps relay your suspicions, and be open about the fact that your perceptions may very well be clouded by your strong feelings for her, which you have to own up to.
Also, consider: are you interested in parenting her children? That's at stake in this fantasy of being "in love" with another man's partner, whatever your history with her. You'd better care about her enough to want that to even begin this, I figure.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:29 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm a little amazed that nobody has commented on this part:
"I still communicate with her, and we were very, very close... I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me..."
From the sound of that, your initial assertion that you "spent years staying out of things" is not at all true. It sounds as if you maintained an emotionally intimate relationship with your married ex-girlfriend, and never really let go of her. Not only is your judgment suspect now; it has been suspect all along. You may not have directly created the rift that has opened between these people, but it sure sounds as if you've facilitated it. I think you're having trouble deciding what to do because the things you've done and want to do don't fit with the innocent image of yourself that you'd like to hang on to.
posted by jon1270 at 6:09 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
"I still communicate with her, and we were very, very close... I am still in love with her. She is also still in love with me..."
From the sound of that, your initial assertion that you "spent years staying out of things" is not at all true. It sounds as if you maintained an emotionally intimate relationship with your married ex-girlfriend, and never really let go of her. Not only is your judgment suspect now; it has been suspect all along. You may not have directly created the rift that has opened between these people, but it sure sounds as if you've facilitated it. I think you're having trouble deciding what to do because the things you've done and want to do don't fit with the innocent image of yourself that you'd like to hang on to.
posted by jon1270 at 6:09 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
An advice columnist (who?) revised her position on this: before, she had said 'stay out,' but with AIDS becoming part of the situation, she said that the health concerns outweigh the social concerns.
The love-triangle entanglement thing? The method is the message.
posted by dragonsi55 at 6:56 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
The love-triangle entanglement thing? The method is the message.
posted by dragonsi55 at 6:56 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of the Golden Rules is to treat others as you'd like to be treated. If you were in her position, would you want to know?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tell your friend that he needs to tell his wife and clean his act up. Anything past that is her choice. Cut the friend loose, not a person you want to be hanging out with if he can intentionally hurt his wife like that.
One caveat, you are too involved to be objective so you need to maintain some distance. Be supportive, but not involved in the fallout. Snowjoe's comment about finding other people is spot on, you've been dreaming away about this woman and other opportunities may well have passed you by.
posted by arcticseal at 7:41 AM on January 6, 2010
One caveat, you are too involved to be objective so you need to maintain some distance. Be supportive, but not involved in the fallout. Snowjoe's comment about finding other people is spot on, you've been dreaming away about this woman and other opportunities may well have passed you by.
posted by arcticseal at 7:41 AM on January 6, 2010
This is a slam dunk: it's none of your business.
If you want to listen to the boy scouts here and insert yourself into this, be my guest. But nothing good will come of that. Let him tell her or not tell her.
Most people have affairs during marriage. This is reality that everyone here loves to ignore.
When you're discreet about an affair, no one gets hurt. Creating a situation that ENSURES someone is going to get hurt is not your place.
Again, people never want to answer these questions honestly. They always have to inject their morality/hypocrisy into the answer to show everyone how "wonderful" and "moral" they are.
This is the honest, real answer: It's not your place.
posted by Zambrano at 8:01 AM on January 6, 2010
If you want to listen to the boy scouts here and insert yourself into this, be my guest. But nothing good will come of that. Let him tell her or not tell her.
Most people have affairs during marriage. This is reality that everyone here loves to ignore.
When you're discreet about an affair, no one gets hurt. Creating a situation that ENSURES someone is going to get hurt is not your place.
Again, people never want to answer these questions honestly. They always have to inject their morality/hypocrisy into the answer to show everyone how "wonderful" and "moral" they are.
This is the honest, real answer: It's not your place.
posted by Zambrano at 8:01 AM on January 6, 2010
You should not be telling her what you know yourself -- not because you should keep it secret, but because you are an obviously compromised source. It would/will be very simple for the guy you'd be exposing to dismiss whatever you say as a "he's jealous and trying to break us up" thing and turn it into a "us versus the world, babe" motif that gets crappy guys second/third/etc. chances with alarming regularity. Men pull that routine frequently because it WORKS.
You can still make sure she finds out, perhaps by finding a non-compromised source to deliver the news. Should you go this route, be careful that they have the integrity to not name you the moment the guy protests in order to deflect the heat -- I've had that happen, and the result ends up the same as if you'd told her yourself: a friend set up for further pain in their contrariness.
posted by Pufferish at 8:15 AM on January 6, 2010
You can still make sure she finds out, perhaps by finding a non-compromised source to deliver the news. Should you go this route, be careful that they have the integrity to not name you the moment the guy protests in order to deflect the heat -- I've had that happen, and the result ends up the same as if you'd told her yourself: a friend set up for further pain in their contrariness.
posted by Pufferish at 8:15 AM on January 6, 2010
friends tell friends about cheating partners ... full stop, period, do not pass go, do not collct $200.
The rest will sort itself out.
posted by jannw at 8:52 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
The rest will sort itself out.
posted by jannw at 8:52 AM on January 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
> I found out about a year ago that there had been multiple affairs on his part.
How did you find out? Hearsay? Are you sure or could it just be a lot of salacious rumors floating around?
> "Tell her about the affairs or I will"
> the health concerns outweigh the social concerns
This and more. She needs to know for safety reasons.
> When you're discreet about an affair, no one gets hurt.
Yeah...no. Lies hurt people, if not immediately or apparently. Just because 'most people do it' doesn't make it any less shitty. Not that my morals are of the highest caliber
posted by ostranenie at 8:54 AM on January 6, 2010
How did you find out? Hearsay? Are you sure or could it just be a lot of salacious rumors floating around?
> "Tell her about the affairs or I will"
> the health concerns outweigh the social concerns
This and more. She needs to know for safety reasons.
> When you're discreet about an affair, no one gets hurt.
Yeah...no. Lies hurt people, if not immediately or apparently. Just because 'most people do it' doesn't make it any less shitty. Not that my morals are of the highest caliber
posted by ostranenie at 8:54 AM on January 6, 2010
Do not touch this situation with a ten foot pole. Get as much distance as possible, there is no way that this will wendell.
The BEST case scenario would be that you and this woman live happily ever after... except that you won't. She'll have to get a divorce, which is messy. She already has two children and will have to make custodial arrangements. There will be hurt feelings all around. You will be dragged into the middle of this. And that's the BEST case scenario.
More likely: you tell her, she breaks up with him, and DOESN'T come running into your arms, you've aided in the destruction of a marriage (which sounds like it could end of natural causes) and now you've lost both of your friends.
Really, get as much distance as you possibly can. Physically, mentally, emotionally - just remove yourself from this situation. Tell her and run, don't tell her and run, but either way - BACK THE HELL OFF. Yes, she should find out, and yes you as a friend have a certain moral duty to her - but most importantly you as a human being need to DIS-entangle yourself from this, not entrench yourself further and add to the drama. Your first priority here since this friend is not your spouse is to maintain your own health and sanity. Don't fall on your sword and create a huge mess for her sake, it's not actually doing anyone any favors.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:19 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
The BEST case scenario would be that you and this woman live happily ever after... except that you won't. She'll have to get a divorce, which is messy. She already has two children and will have to make custodial arrangements. There will be hurt feelings all around. You will be dragged into the middle of this. And that's the BEST case scenario.
More likely: you tell her, she breaks up with him, and DOESN'T come running into your arms, you've aided in the destruction of a marriage (which sounds like it could end of natural causes) and now you've lost both of your friends.
Really, get as much distance as you possibly can. Physically, mentally, emotionally - just remove yourself from this situation. Tell her and run, don't tell her and run, but either way - BACK THE HELL OFF. Yes, she should find out, and yes you as a friend have a certain moral duty to her - but most importantly you as a human being need to DIS-entangle yourself from this, not entrench yourself further and add to the drama. Your first priority here since this friend is not your spouse is to maintain your own health and sanity. Don't fall on your sword and create a huge mess for her sake, it's not actually doing anyone any favors.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:19 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her. I thought he would watch out for her.
This sentence really strikes me as strange. I know others have mentioned the somewhat patronizing tone you have, but I'm going to go a step further. I wonder if this woman is extremely dependent in some way? I can't imagine going out with a guy, then he gets sick and "allows" his friend to go out with me, and just going along with that. If I love the guy, I love him, sick or not, and I would be extremely hurt by this attitude.
I wonder if when you say it's better for her to stay with the unfaithful husband, if you really mean it's better for you, as if she is the dependent type of girl, once the husband is out of the picture she will then turn to you, and you seem to have been happy with maintaining an emotional relationship with her without all the other things that go with a normal relationship, and are intimate in a nitty-gritty way: sex, living together, raising children, etc etc
I apologize if that seems harsh, and I know it doesn't really answer your question, but that's what jumped out at me.
posted by cottonswab at 9:27 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This sentence really strikes me as strange. I know others have mentioned the somewhat patronizing tone you have, but I'm going to go a step further. I wonder if this woman is extremely dependent in some way? I can't imagine going out with a guy, then he gets sick and "allows" his friend to go out with me, and just going along with that. If I love the guy, I love him, sick or not, and I would be extremely hurt by this attitude.
I wonder if when you say it's better for her to stay with the unfaithful husband, if you really mean it's better for you, as if she is the dependent type of girl, once the husband is out of the picture she will then turn to you, and you seem to have been happy with maintaining an emotional relationship with her without all the other things that go with a normal relationship, and are intimate in a nitty-gritty way: sex, living together, raising children, etc etc
I apologize if that seems harsh, and I know it doesn't really answer your question, but that's what jumped out at me.
posted by cottonswab at 9:27 AM on January 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I only left her because I was ill a long time ago, and a close friend asked if he could date her.
I read this more as 'he was thinking of going out with my ex, but wanted to make sure it wouldn't upset me too much if I did'. FWIW.
posted by mippy at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I read this more as 'he was thinking of going out with my ex, but wanted to make sure it wouldn't upset me too much if I did'. FWIW.
posted by mippy at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
IMO, i'll bet the wife has some idea that the husband is cheating anyway...
posted by foxhat10 at 6:44 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by foxhat10 at 6:44 AM on January 11, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by youcancallmeal at 9:43 PM on January 5, 2010 [6 favorites]