Letterboxing our TV
December 22, 2009 9:00 AM   Subscribe

We've got no good reason to justify spending $500 (or even $100) to replace our 3:4 aspect ratio 32" CRT television. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that TV shows are being broadcast in 16:9 and the left and right edges are getting cut off. Is there any way to 'letterbox' our TV, somewhere between the cable box and the TV, so we can see the entire frame?
posted by AzraelBrown to Technology (16 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Tivo HD allows you to reformat widescreen HD into a letterboxed SD signal, but that something of an investment in of itself. It's what I use on my 32" CRT to watch new TV shows and see all the extra bits.
posted by nomisxid at 9:11 AM on December 22, 2009


IF you get an hd box and connect it to your crt tv it should automatically letterbox the hd content when displayed on your older tv.
posted by majortom1981 at 9:19 AM on December 22, 2009


Your TV is not responsible if it's an older CRT. It's just displaying what it gets.

This.
I traded some interesting email with the chief engineer at one of the Indianapolis stations. I had asked him why his network primetime programming was showing up on my old CRT properly letterboxed while his local competitors' programming was coming through full-screen and trimmed-off on the edges.

His reply was that he was taking the extra step in supplying Comcast a separate signal for non-widescreen display that provides for a letterboxed image (Of course, that was his "talking to a non-technical person explanation. I'm sure there's more to it)
posted by Thorzdad at 9:20 AM on December 22, 2009


Best answer: In our local broadcast / cable area, it all depends on the provider. I run production for a HD channel, and we broadcast in a lovely digital full 1080i HD signal over the air. For the cable provider, they pick up that signal over the air and downconvert it to a letterboxed standard definition signal that is inserted into the cable system. We have the option to run it letterboxed or cropped on cable because we have good communication with the engineer, but I know lots of stations just send it out and it is what it is.

This is especially true of local broadcasts that may be picked up by a dozen or more cable outlets - the cable providers and the broadcasters generally don't want to spend the time or money to track down the individual issues through all the systems. The large majority of viewers have little knowledge about HD/SD, 16:9/4:3, crop/letterbox, so there is not a push to fix things for an admittedly outdated technology.

If you're getting your signal through cable, you can try to contact your local company (although it is unlikely you'll talk to anyone who can actually help with this), or contact the specific channels about their broadcast.
posted by shinynewnick at 9:38 AM on December 22, 2009


As noted above, your cable box should have an option under settings that will allow you to change the format sent to your tv. If you mention who's cable box you have, someone might even be able to provide step by step directions.
posted by Atreides at 9:54 AM on December 22, 2009


For what it's worth, no TV show or movie that I've seen puts anything vital in 'cutoff' spaces.

This is what you're seeing versus what you wouldn't… note that you're actually missing a bit on top and bottom as well, and that the network plans around this and leaves it as blank space. This is important, because if you change your aspect ratio, everything on the screen will have to shrink significantly to fit in the extra image from the sides and the top/bottom. On a non-HD, 32" television, you may find yourself losing some information which can't be made out at that resolution.
posted by mhz at 10:05 AM on December 22, 2009


For what it's worth, no TV show or movie that I've seen puts anything vital in 'cutoff' spaces.

Mefi's sorta-own Craig Ferguson did some bits for the first week he had HD where he made rude gestures in the HD-only parts. Well, made some sort of gesture that was pixelated.
posted by nomisxid at 10:27 AM on December 22, 2009


Response by poster: Your TV is not responsible if it's an older CRT. It's just displaying what it gets.

I just want to clarify the answers you guys are giving me: even if I swapped out the 4:3 TV for a 16:9 TV, the new TV would still have the widescreen edges cut off?
posted by AzraelBrown at 10:37 AM on December 22, 2009


NO if you get a new tv they wont be as long as you make sure you have an hd box,
posted by majortom1981 at 10:44 AM on December 22, 2009


nthing the cable box setup options to specify whether you're watching on a 4:3 or 16:9 box, and if 4:3 whether to letterbox or crop. However, most cable boxes also have pretty unintuitive GUIs, so you might need either to search for the particular make/model of box, or call your cable provider since that's partly what you pay them for.

That raises a side question for the cable-biz MeFites: are DVDs and cable boxes set to assume 16:9 out of the box these days?
posted by holgate at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2009


For what it's worth, no TV show or movie that I've seen puts anything vital in 'cutoff' spaces.

This isn't entirely true. My local PBS station, for instance, broadcasts everything in widescreen HD. On a SD set, titles, subtitles, names, graphics, etc. etc. routinely run-off the sides of the image. This becomes especially exasperating when watching a program featuring lots of subtitling and a good amount of the text is cut-off. Inquiring about this to the station manager elicited a simple "Buy a new TV." response.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:29 AM on December 22, 2009


This isn't entirely true.

It is for shows I've seen. Which, to be fair, is primarily football. Some networks will have extra stats in the bottom area, but never anything vital. I've also notices that network shows have the logo offset, and captions are set inside the 4:3 area while the ribbons may extend into 16:9 territory. The PBS station in question seems to be ignoring a problem that is widely worked around.

Google image examples: 1 2 3 4 5 This last example is interesting, because the logo has 'HD' in it, right on the border… it looks like on an SD set, it would just say 'Global,' with 'HD' missing.
posted by mhz at 11:51 AM on December 22, 2009


I just want to clarify the answers you guys are giving me: even if I swapped out the 4:3 TV for a 16:9 TV, the new TV would still have the widescreen edges cut off?

The answers for what to do will depend on how your tv is hooked up now.

Let's say you aren't using a cable box now. If you swap to a 16:9 tv, that won't change a blessed thing for the channels you currently receive. They are 4:3 channels and will remain so. It is likely, though not certain, that your cable company sends local tv stations and maybe a few others in HD "in the clear" as clear QAM. Many/most hd sets will be able to see and decode these channels.

If you have an old, nondigital cable box: Pretty much the same applies to you, except that you probably won't be able to tune any hd channels through your cranky old cable box.

If you have a new, digital cable box: look at it. Does it say "HD" on it? Then it probably does HD. Or look at the back -- does it have component video out and/or HDMI out? If so, it's almost certainly an HD box. Or just google the name (ie, "scientific atlanta 8300hd") to find out.

If your digital cable box doesn't do HD: you'll need to swap to one that does. Adding an HDTV to it won't change the fact that the signals are 4:3 signals.

If your digital cable box does do HD: first, go through your setup menus and look at how it's set up to deal with 16:9 content -- there's some chance, though I think it's unlikely, that the issue is an incorrectly set up cable box.

But here, in the last case, if you swap to an HD set, you should get rid of the problems you're seeing -- but only if you watch the HD versions of the channels. If you keep tuning to channel 3 to watch your CBS affiliate, it's going to look the same as it did before. You'd need to tune to whatever the HD channel of your CBS affiliate is.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:55 PM on December 22, 2009


The "Safe Area" problem of 4:3 vs 16:9 is a recent development for many people. Even to the point that only the most recent version of Final Cut Pro (released this year), has the regular Safe Area for 16:9, and added small ticks to note the 4:3 Safe Area within that to produce content that will work in either format.

The problem is that throws off the "normal" placement of many items on screen. As an editor, seeing the placement of lower thirds and logos on an HD set seems far too close to the center, but that is the requirement for getting inside a cropped 4:3 image. You'll notice lots of animations and backgrounds in that extra area of 16:9 for many programs, especially newscasts. The idea is you don't lose information if cropped, but makes it look "pretty" for 16:9.

If an editor is working solely in 16:9, especially one used to producing content for theater viewing or exclusively letterboxed, they will not take into consideration the 4:3 Safe Area. Thus the problem of subtitles and information being chopped off on a local PBS broadcast.

There isn't really a good solution right now. We have this great new canvas to work with, but are forced to squeeze it back to the old version. If you frame correctly when shooting in 16:9, you can get screwed in post with 4:3.
posted by shinynewnick at 2:57 PM on December 22, 2009


This bugs me too: my cable company broadcasts most of the major networks cropped to 4:3 for SD, and it has become increasingly noticeable over the past year. And there's nothing in the receiver settings that controls this; I'm fairly sure it's being decided at the head-end.

No TV show or movie that I've seen puts anything vital in 'cutoff' spaces.

Not my experience either: one example I see often is composing two-shots in 16:9. Cropped to 4:3 you end up with a big empty space in the middle and a half-head at each edge.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:27 AM on December 25, 2009


And there's nothing in the receiver settings that controls this; I'm fairly sure it's being decided at the head-end.

I'll confirm for the channel I run, that we made that decision at the head-end to letterbox. As far as I know, there is no setting on the end-user cable box to change our channel to 4:3 cropped, the signal is presented as-is.
posted by shinynewnick at 8:02 AM on December 26, 2009


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