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December 13, 2009 11:30 PM Subscribe
Dog Filter: My labrador thinks she's a lifeguard! Help!
My 5 year old Labrador Retriever, Molly is an avid swimmer, as are all Labradors. However, she makes swimming at the pool and at the beach very difficult, as she seems to have this deep seated biological drive to save anyone she determines as being in too far (she almost rescued a stranger's child once, who was clearly in no danger, but nevertheless she tried.)
At the beach, once you are in up to the depth she has determined is enough (about human knee depth), she will grab whatever piece of clothing she can, quite gently, and pull you back towards the shore.
In the pool, she is perfectly happy to swim by herself, and 'rescue' the kick board and bring it back numerous times, but once a human wants to swim with her, she whines and barks from the edge, or will swim on top of you, unintentionally scratching at you, in an attempt to grab your swimwear and take you to the edge. She will tolerate you standing still or floating close to the edge, but move towards the middle of the pool and she is clearly distressed. Throwing the board in and swimming is the only way both of us can swim, and you can still see her doggy brain frantically trying to triage who she should rescue first.
So, my question finally....how do I help train her to calm down in these situations, so both of us can swim at the same time? While there are clearly some advantages to this 'need' of hers (and is sometimes hilariously funny), it seriously impedes us both having a good time swimming.
The difficulties of having dog treats at the pool are clear....any suggestions as to training techniques?
My 5 year old Labrador Retriever, Molly is an avid swimmer, as are all Labradors. However, she makes swimming at the pool and at the beach very difficult, as she seems to have this deep seated biological drive to save anyone she determines as being in too far (she almost rescued a stranger's child once, who was clearly in no danger, but nevertheless she tried.)
At the beach, once you are in up to the depth she has determined is enough (about human knee depth), she will grab whatever piece of clothing she can, quite gently, and pull you back towards the shore.
In the pool, she is perfectly happy to swim by herself, and 'rescue' the kick board and bring it back numerous times, but once a human wants to swim with her, she whines and barks from the edge, or will swim on top of you, unintentionally scratching at you, in an attempt to grab your swimwear and take you to the edge. She will tolerate you standing still or floating close to the edge, but move towards the middle of the pool and she is clearly distressed. Throwing the board in and swimming is the only way both of us can swim, and you can still see her doggy brain frantically trying to triage who she should rescue first.
So, my question finally....how do I help train her to calm down in these situations, so both of us can swim at the same time? While there are clearly some advantages to this 'need' of hers (and is sometimes hilariously funny), it seriously impedes us both having a good time swimming.
The difficulties of having dog treats at the pool are clear....any suggestions as to training techniques?
Sounds pretty hilarious to an extent. Could you have another person hold her on the edge of the pool (and soothe her) and gradually train her to stay calm as you go further and further into the pool? Seems like the trainer could use treats without making a mess at the pool. It would be just like training her to "stay" if you want to look up advice on basic operant conditioning.
This is assuming that once she gets used to seeing you in the middle of the pool that she will then decide you don't need rescuing and she can go for a swim as well. I think that's likely.
posted by parkerjackson at 6:38 AM on December 14, 2009
This is assuming that once she gets used to seeing you in the middle of the pool that she will then decide you don't need rescuing and she can go for a swim as well. I think that's likely.
posted by parkerjackson at 6:38 AM on December 14, 2009
I'm still laughing, this sounds hilarious.
But I hear you... how did you train her for her regular obedience stuff? Positive reward stuff? Clicker?
I think what you need to do (and it might involve treats at the pool at the beginning, but remeber, training is training, not swimming and trying to train at the same time, so try to set time aside just for training) is reward her for the times when she's not rescuing you. She possibly only does it because she knows that she gets a lot of attention and everyone makes a big fuss when she 'rescues' you. She's probably interpreting that fuss and attention as encouragement. (I have a Lab too, he's very recently started jumping up on me for the very same reason.)
So, reward her for not doing anything by giving her lots of attention, praise, treats, click-and-treat or whatever your chosen method is. Then try to extend the time and depth to which she does nothing. But make sure, while you're training, that you always come back. If you can get her to ignore you in the middle of the pool for one second then come straight back and reward her. Eventually, like a 'stay' she should be able to leave you there for ages.
You could make it a command behavior as well. Like 'watch' or similar, so her job is to watch you until you call her to come and get you. But it would be better if you didn't have to do this and you could make not-rescuing everyone her normal behaviour.
Good luck.
posted by HopStopDon'tShop at 6:52 AM on December 14, 2009
But I hear you... how did you train her for her regular obedience stuff? Positive reward stuff? Clicker?
I think what you need to do (and it might involve treats at the pool at the beginning, but remeber, training is training, not swimming and trying to train at the same time, so try to set time aside just for training) is reward her for the times when she's not rescuing you. She possibly only does it because she knows that she gets a lot of attention and everyone makes a big fuss when she 'rescues' you. She's probably interpreting that fuss and attention as encouragement. (I have a Lab too, he's very recently started jumping up on me for the very same reason.)
So, reward her for not doing anything by giving her lots of attention, praise, treats, click-and-treat or whatever your chosen method is. Then try to extend the time and depth to which she does nothing. But make sure, while you're training, that you always come back. If you can get her to ignore you in the middle of the pool for one second then come straight back and reward her. Eventually, like a 'stay' she should be able to leave you there for ages.
You could make it a command behavior as well. Like 'watch' or similar, so her job is to watch you until you call her to come and get you. But it would be better if you didn't have to do this and you could make not-rescuing everyone her normal behaviour.
Good luck.
posted by HopStopDon'tShop at 6:52 AM on December 14, 2009
My family had a German Shepherd who rescued my father countless unlanted times from the ocean. He would sneak his way out of the house by pushing out a screen and bolt for the beach. He rescued only the swimming trunks many times as well.
The only thing that worked was locking him in the house and having my father leave fully clothed. But maybe shepherds are more persistent?
posted by mozhet at 8:36 AM on December 14, 2009
The only thing that worked was locking him in the house and having my father leave fully clothed. But maybe shepherds are more persistent?
posted by mozhet at 8:36 AM on December 14, 2009
I think HopStop has the right idea. Things to keep in mind when you're trying to deal with an unwanted behavior.
Redirect---give her something else to focus on. Having someone on the side of the pool redirecting her attention to an awesome toy or something of high value to her.
Reward the desired behavior---any time they can redirect her attention from wanting to rescue someone click and treat. Have you taught her "leave it" for other situations? Use that here. If you haven't taught that, you may want to teach it to her about a toy or a treat before you move to teaching her to "leave it" when someone is in the pool.
Don't reward the unwanted behavior---any attention you give her when she tries to rescue you is reward. Don't look at her, dont' to try to touch her or move her paws, nothing. Turn your back on her as best you can and ignore her. At the same time, the person on the side if the pool should be trying to redirect her.
Be consistent. Everyone needs to be on the same page and behave the same way.
Don't repeat commands over and over again. Each repetition dilutes it's meaning/power.
When she makes a mistake, give a "whoops", "too bad", etc. This is a pretty strong drive and yelling at her will just confuse her. I think she'll hear the volume and not the meaning. If she can't control herself yet, remove her from the situation for a short time while you continue your pool activity. Have your helper bring her back and try again.
If there's someone she's less interested in rescuing, use them as your swimmer. You want to stack things in the dog's favor so that she succeeds, especially to start out with.
Dogs are smart. Once she figures out what you want, that good things happen when she does what you want, that everyone is going to react the same way, etc. she'll understand.
Once she understands, your job is to head her off at the pass and keep her from attempting rescues in the first place. Tell her to "leave it" as soon as she starts showing to much interest in a swimmer. And ALWAYS remember to praise her for the behavior you want. So many people scold the unwanted behavior without praising the desired behavior. Everytime you praise it reinforces what you want from her.
posted by lobakgo at 12:52 PM on December 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Redirect---give her something else to focus on. Having someone on the side of the pool redirecting her attention to an awesome toy or something of high value to her.
Reward the desired behavior---any time they can redirect her attention from wanting to rescue someone click and treat. Have you taught her "leave it" for other situations? Use that here. If you haven't taught that, you may want to teach it to her about a toy or a treat before you move to teaching her to "leave it" when someone is in the pool.
Don't reward the unwanted behavior---any attention you give her when she tries to rescue you is reward. Don't look at her, dont' to try to touch her or move her paws, nothing. Turn your back on her as best you can and ignore her. At the same time, the person on the side if the pool should be trying to redirect her.
Be consistent. Everyone needs to be on the same page and behave the same way.
Don't repeat commands over and over again. Each repetition dilutes it's meaning/power.
When she makes a mistake, give a "whoops", "too bad", etc. This is a pretty strong drive and yelling at her will just confuse her. I think she'll hear the volume and not the meaning. If she can't control herself yet, remove her from the situation for a short time while you continue your pool activity. Have your helper bring her back and try again.
If there's someone she's less interested in rescuing, use them as your swimmer. You want to stack things in the dog's favor so that she succeeds, especially to start out with.
Dogs are smart. Once she figures out what you want, that good things happen when she does what you want, that everyone is going to react the same way, etc. she'll understand.
Once she understands, your job is to head her off at the pass and keep her from attempting rescues in the first place. Tell her to "leave it" as soon as she starts showing to much interest in a swimmer. And ALWAYS remember to praise her for the behavior you want. So many people scold the unwanted behavior without praising the desired behavior. Everytime you praise it reinforces what you want from her.
posted by lobakgo at 12:52 PM on December 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
I used to have a dog just like this -- even looked the same (an adorable yellow lab), but male.
What we did was, we somehow trained him to swim with us by grabbing onto his tail and letting him pull us around. For some reason, he took to this, and would happily drag us around in the water rather than trying to save us constantly.
As far as her habit of trying to save other people's kids...I got nothin. But good luck. What a sweet dog.
posted by Ouisch at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2009
What we did was, we somehow trained him to swim with us by grabbing onto his tail and letting him pull us around. For some reason, he took to this, and would happily drag us around in the water rather than trying to save us constantly.
As far as her habit of trying to save other people's kids...I got nothin. But good luck. What a sweet dog.
posted by Ouisch at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for the help everyone, I definately need to be more consistent with rewarding the non-behaviour as well, instead of just correcting the undesirable behaviour.
posted by Pippi Longstocking at 3:53 AM on December 15, 2009
posted by Pippi Longstocking at 3:53 AM on December 15, 2009
Being the one that was the swimmer while Pippi Longstocking trained Molly yesterday, thanks for all the tips! I did have to stifle quite a lot of laughter to help with the training. Looks like a long-term summer project, for which I am more than welcome to volunteer for.
posted by chronic sublime at 3:22 PM on December 16, 2009
posted by chronic sublime at 3:22 PM on December 16, 2009
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Have you tried being firm with her when she starts trying to rescue you? A sharp "NO" whens she's tugging on you? Maybe if she realizes that you are still in control she will calm down about you being in the water. If you are laughing at her or coughing and choking because she's on top of you in the water, it might be reinforcing the idea that you need her to help you.
posted by TooFewShoes at 12:09 AM on December 14, 2009 [1 favorite]