Help me mediate this age old rivalry
December 13, 2009 4:09 PM   Subscribe

Is it possible for a dog with a strong prey drive be trained to not kill my cat?

I'm moving into a small guesthouse which is situated on another property where a large dog has the run of the place. I have an overweight, outdoor cat who I'm worried might not be able to escape if she has a run-in with the dog. The dog is amazingly well-trained and well socialized when it comes to other people, but when he sees small animals he completely loses it.

Is it possible to train out this instinct - I'm guessing not? Is it at least possible to let the dog know that this specific cat is part of the family, and not food?

Right now my only idea is to have some controlled encounters with the dog on a leash. Any other suggestions or experiences would be appreciated...

thanks!
posted by pilibeen to Pets & Animals (25 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
I would not take a chance on it. There's a chance that nothing bad will happen (although I'm pessimistic, if this is an adult dog with a strongly-developed prey drive), but what if something does? Not only will you have the grief of losing your cat, you'll also have the guilt of knowing that ultimately you're responsible for putting the cat in a situation where it was at risk and couldn't get away.

I would spend some time thinking long and hard about how you would feel if the dog maims or kills your cat. How will you feel about yourself for having put the cat in the situation? How will you feel, having to see the dog on a daily basis, knowing it killed your cat?

Last Sunday my cats killed my parrot, whom I'd had for 14 years ever since I brought her home from the breeder. On top of feeling very sad, I'm having to deal with knowing that if I'd done things differently, she'd still be alive. It sucks. Spare yourself this.
posted by Lexica at 4:29 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]


Is there no way you can keep the cat inside? Most cats are fine living strictly indoors. Because no, I would not trust the dog to be able to keep it together. A friend of mine recently had one of her cats killed by her dog, who similarly had a strong prey drive and just one day, out of nowhere, decided to go after the cat until it was dead. Similarly, another friend went out in her backyard recently to find her dogs busily killing the cat from next door.

If both animals were yours, I could see working to socialize them with each other, but it's a time-consuming process and I really wouldn't want to leave them alone with each other for a long, long time. If ever.

And Lexica -- so, so sorry about your parrot. What a horrible thing to have happen.
posted by OolooKitty at 4:40 PM on December 13, 2009


Best answer: Another thing to keep in mind, some cats fight back and cats have been known to blind dogs by scratching them in the eye (this came from my parent's vet who has treated a number of such injuries). You'll never train your cat not to act like prey when it's being attacked. This is less likely of course, particularly with a big dog where it's harder for the cat to reach the eyes, but how would you deal with it if it did happen?

I think it comes down to the 'how would you deal with it' question all round really. Personally I wouldn't take the risk with my cats but maybe the equation is weighted differently in your situation.
posted by shelleycat at 4:55 PM on December 13, 2009


Greyhounds are often cool with inside cats, which they see as family, but all bets are off, so to speak, when they encounter one outside. I would imagine the same is true of other dogs with high prey drives.
posted by QuakerMel at 5:15 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]


I think dogs with a strong prey drive can definitely understand that cats within their own household are off-limits, but I don't think sharing the same property will be enough to establish that boundary.
posted by garden hoe at 5:19 PM on December 13, 2009


I agree, it's not worth the risk. My Husky (who came into the house when she was eight weeks old and the cats were already adults) is fine with the four cats she lives with (they aren't exactly friends, but have worked things out)... when she sees a cat outside it is a whole different response.
posted by HuronBob at 5:20 PM on December 13, 2009


Its not worth the risk. Just keep your cat indoors; It is entirely possible that the owners of the property give the dog the run of the place specifically to keep the presence of small critters to a minimum, and may not appreciate any attempts to make the dog play nicely with your cat (and as a result any other animal that size). Not becoming a snack for predators (coyotes, wolves also in the area) or road kill goes a long way towards keeping a cat happy, and breathing.
posted by chosemerveilleux at 5:39 PM on December 13, 2009


um, the above is absolutely false about pit bulls. i have two and have known many, many more, who have all co-habitated wonderfully with all sorts of other pets, including cats.

i do have one who definitely sports the prey-drive, and yet has never once turned it on a member of her clan or anyone elses. (this courtesy does not, however, extend to squirrels)

that said, i still would keep your cat inside. the animals haven't grown up together and it doesn't sound like they'll spend much time socializing, and so won't exactly be bonding. it's always so much better to be safe than sorry.
posted by unlucky.lisp at 6:42 PM on December 13, 2009


Best answer: I wouldn't bet on being able to train out the instinct. It is an instinct.

Lion and tiger trainers talk about how they know that one day they will make a mistake, and the tiger will realize they're prey, and kill them. Even after ten years of working with that tiger.

It only has to happen once.

Also, it's not your dog. So you can't do what you need to do to extinguish a behavior. If it were your dog, you could keep him on a leash with a pinch collar, and correct him whenever he chases the cat. You could put a shock collar on him, and observe him when he doesn't think you're there, and correct (zap) him whenever he chases the cat.

But you can't do that to someone else's dog. With someone else's dog, all you can do is give him treats when he doesn't eat your cat -- and chasing your cat is a much bigger treat than you can give him. Strong prey drive animals love to chase more than they love to eat -- just think of a cat playing with a mouse.
posted by musofire at 6:44 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]


I volunteered for several years at a greyhound adoption agency, and what we always told people is that no, you can't guarantee that a high prey dog will not hurt a prey animal. Living things are unpredictable.

I would keep the cat inside.
posted by winna at 6:45 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]


I've had several hounds who regarded our cats (bunnies & birds etc) as part of the family but relentlessly chased any strange cats. Three of the dogs only want to chase and won't hurt anything they catch. The other one will chew on anything she catches, though she won't usually tangle with a big cat.

I'd definitely keep the cat inside. Even if the dog is extremely well trained they will one day encounter each other without any humans around to intervene and who knows what will happen.
posted by fshgrl at 8:04 PM on December 13, 2009


No more pitbull FUD. I fostered a pit bull and it was the sweetest thing on the planet to all living things. Dogs would bark and yip at it all day while we walked down the street and she never looked over at them. She was amazing in the dog park and the only time there was a fight was because some jerk dog attacked her.

Don't blame the breed.
posted by Napierzaza at 8:17 PM on December 13, 2009


Response by poster: Well thanks for the replies...

Unfortunately I can't keep my cat indoors exclusively. I adopted her after a long life outdoors, and she goes batty when she's kept inside all day.
posted by pilibeen at 8:19 PM on December 13, 2009


Is it possible for the dog to.. not have the run of the place? Can the cat have a fenced-in area?
posted by dunkadunc at 9:28 PM on December 13, 2009


Better for the cat to be "batty" than mauled to death.

Come on.
posted by srrh at 9:52 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]


You need to talk to the landlord/ and the other tenant (if they are not the landlord) about this yesterday.

If I were the dog owner and you sprung a cat on me unannounced I'd be mad. There is the risk of the dog being branded a dangerous dog (which is a HUGE deal legally) or even euthanized if he kills your cat and the owner is liable to lawsuits, eviction/ homeowners insurance freaking out and visits from Animal Control. If you refuse to keep your cat indoors the dog owner is going to have to seriously modify their lifestyle to accommodate your free-roaming cat and if I were the other tenant or landlord I would not be willing to do that. People with dogs own/ rent houses with fenced yards at a premium price for a reason.

Even if you've already talked and the dog owner is saying, lets see how it goes... you need to clarify what the fall back situation is if the dog does not accept the cat. They likely assume that you will keep the cat indoors. If you truly refuse to keep the cat inside then building an attached enclosed run is probably the best option but you may not be able to do that.
posted by fshgrl at 10:04 PM on December 13, 2009


Response by poster: I'd find a new home for the cat before forcing the indoor life on her. I'm all for indoor cats, but not when they've already had 7 years of the great outdoors. But that's not really what the question was about...

And it wasn't really about the situation w/ the landowner, or the temperament of pit bulls.

I was really just wondering if anyone's ever brought a cat into a household with a potentially agressive dog, and how they made the transition - if at all.
posted by pilibeen at 10:24 PM on December 13, 2009


When I had a husky, she killed a neighbor's cat when it strayed into my yard. My own cat was immune but it wasn't because the dog was trained. It's because the cat would, when caught by Nadja (the dog), go totally limp. This would confuse Nadja who would sniff at the seemingly lifeless cat, then get bored and walk away. Then, Windy (the cat) would get up and go tease Nadja for another round of this.

I doubt you could train your cat to do this.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:08 AM on December 14, 2009


I was really just wondering if anyone's ever brought a cat into a household with a potentially agressive dog, and how they made the transition - if at all.

But from what you've said in your post, you're not bringing the cat into the dog's *household*. You will be letting the cat loose in the dog's backyard, where it is impossible to enforce any kind consistent behavioral training. If you were going to try this in a house, with the dog crated initially and slow introductions, it might be possible.

But in my opinion, it would still not be worth the risk to the cat.
posted by crankylex at 5:59 AM on December 14, 2009


Cats definitely can adjust to being indoor only -- even after 7 years of having had access to the great outdoors. Please consider that it might be more of an adjustment for your cat to go to a new family than for her to stay with you and become in an indoor cat.
posted by Maisie at 7:04 AM on December 14, 2009


I agree with Maisie that the cat may be more traumatized by having to adapt to a new family, than it would to being kept inside.

You'll also have to consider that by allowing your cat to be an outside cat, you're taking the chances with its life, anyway. This dog is not the only possible threat to an outdoor cat. There are other wandering dogs out there, meaner cats, motor vehicles, rabid animals, cruel people, etc.

Keep the cat indoors to protect it. As an added bonus, you'll be protecting the small harmless wildlife that outdoor cats destroy as a matter of course. The fact that the cat is overweight and slow doesn't mean it's not killing critters.
posted by Coatlicue at 7:55 AM on December 14, 2009


Another idea is to get a cat harness and leash for your cat and take her on supervised walks only. It may be a little late to train her, but she'd probably get used to it. I have a friend who does just this due to coyotes, and her cat loves it. She may act a little like a paraplegic cat when you first put it on, but will get used to it in short order.
posted by bookdragoness at 8:12 AM on December 14, 2009


There are a lot of ways to try to convince your cat to live indoors, and you should work on those before you decide that rehoming it is the only choice.

I'd try having the cat meet the dog in a well-contained (indoor) territory, so the dog knows the cat is not to be chased. It's a dog, and it will forget, but you might as well try this. At least if the dog chases the cat, it might not actually end up injuring it. (The cat might end up injuring the dog, as people mentioned above. Cats go almost exclusively for the eyes.)

Then I'd try keeping the cat indoors. 7 is a pretty good age for a cat, and they often slow down a lot around 7-9 years old, so it might be easier than it used to be to keep the cat indoors. Especially in a new house, and especially over the winter.

If the cat won't stay indoors, try allowing it outside only on a halter and leash. If you have an enclosed porch of some sort, you can also try this.
posted by jeather at 8:15 AM on December 14, 2009


I don't think there's a way to control the dog's behavior in a relationship this casual... but perhaps the owner wouldn't mind putting a bell on the dog's collar, so your cat can hear the dog coming and skedaddle? We belled our dog simply because her default position in the house is exactly under one's feet, and she's also the same color as our kitchen and bedroom floors, so the little noise from her movement in useful for warning us where she is so we don't constantly fall over her. It has also proved helpful when we go for a walk, because the cats can hear her coming, as well.

She isn't actually interested in chasing cats, but will chase and grab (and no doubt shake to death) any small thing that dashes out right in front of her. The bell has kept that sort of surprise from occurring.
posted by taz at 11:08 AM on December 14, 2009


Greyhounds are another good example. You can train them all you want, but their breeding is stronger than any training you can give them.

This is flatly untrue. There are varying degrees of high prey drive in greyhounds, and a lot of them can live with cats. When I said that you can't train high prey drive out of a dog, I meant a dog that was naturally high prey drive. I have helped to cat-test greyhounds fresh from the track, and you could tell the dogs who could be trusted after training with a cat or other pet and those who couldn't. The ones who couldn't would tremble and drool and whine. The ones who could be trained would sniff the cat and come over for petting.

Incidentally, the cat who performed this function knew best of all which dogs were safe, and I always watched her as much as the dog. The dogs were muzzled when introduced to the cat (as with any of that kind of introduction) and tightly controlled under leash. She would rub herself on the dogs who could be taught to respect cats, but wouldn't go near the ones that were whining and drooling because they quite clearly wanted to spread some mustard on her and have a kitty sandwich. I wouldn't have gone near them in her place, either. She wasn't afraid at any point. She was awesome.

My own dog is absolutely low prey drive for other four-legged animals and even outside she wants to make friends with cats. She is always heartbroken when the cat runs away. Greyhounds have personalities like anyone else, and the drive to catch things is variable. Now, she would kill a bird as quickly as to look at it, and if I ever had a yard I'd have to figure out how to keep birds from flying low enough for her to catch them, which is a thing that greys have been known to do.
posted by winna at 6:40 PM on December 14, 2009


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