Something Seems Missing...
December 3, 2009 1:46 PM Subscribe
Why do new homes in California seem to lack a fireplace?
As I look at relatively new homes on the market (less than 10 years old), I find that quite a few of them do not have a fireplace. Does anyone know why this is? I would think most homeowners would really want one (at least those of us in Northern Cal or in the colder parts of the state.)
As I look at relatively new homes on the market (less than 10 years old), I find that quite a few of them do not have a fireplace. Does anyone know why this is? I would think most homeowners would really want one (at least those of us in Northern Cal or in the colder parts of the state.)
Googling for California fireplace laws/bans returns a lot of results. I didn't read through them but it looks like that might well have something to do with it.
posted by Perplexity at 1:50 PM on December 3, 2009
posted by Perplexity at 1:50 PM on December 3, 2009
Maybe due to recent regulation of wood burning? http://www.baaqmd.gov/Divisions/Communications-and-Outreach/Air-Quality-in-the-Bay-Area/Wood-Burning/Wood-Burning-Rule-Information.aspx
posted by gnutron at 1:52 PM on December 3, 2009
posted by gnutron at 1:52 PM on December 3, 2009
Wood burning fireplaces are banned in new construction in the Bay Area unless they are EPA certified to reduce particulate emissions. There aren't a lot of certified fireplaces and they obvious cost more (as do gas/duraflame systems) so builders may opt to leave the fireplace out all together. Plus chimneys require maintenance and periodic replacement that isn't necessarily worth it in an area like the Bay Area where it really don't get that cold for the most part.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on December 3, 2009
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on December 3, 2009
I would guess a combination of environmental laws and earthquake-proofness; brick chimneys are a massive hole in the roof (or in the neighbor's roof) waiting to happen in a reasonably sized earthquake.
posted by pdb at 2:32 PM on December 3, 2009
posted by pdb at 2:32 PM on December 3, 2009
In addition to the aforementioned air-quality regulations, there is an increased chance of fire due to fireplaces, and no lender/builder wants to be held responsible for a wildfire caused by an improperly used or maintained fireplace.
Fireplaces are dangerous. Insurance premiums reflect that. Even here in the cold of the upper midwest, our home insurance premiums would be 15% higher if we had a fireplace. (A woodstove that would be used for heat only raises the premium a couple of percent; but they're enclosed to prevent sparks from flying out and baffled/filtered to keep the heat & particulates in.)
posted by jlkr at 2:37 PM on December 3, 2009
Fireplaces are dangerous. Insurance premiums reflect that. Even here in the cold of the upper midwest, our home insurance premiums would be 15% higher if we had a fireplace. (A woodstove that would be used for heat only raises the premium a couple of percent; but they're enclosed to prevent sparks from flying out and baffled/filtered to keep the heat & particulates in.)
posted by jlkr at 2:37 PM on December 3, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers, everyone.
Now I'm wondering if I even want a fireplace...hmmm.....
posted by thisperon at 2:44 PM on December 3, 2009
Now I'm wondering if I even want a fireplace...hmmm.....
posted by thisperon at 2:44 PM on December 3, 2009
Why would homeowners in the colder parts of California would want a fireplace? To heat the house?
"Field trials conducted by the Combustion and Carbonization Research Laboratory (CCRL) of fireplaces in Canadian homes, in conjunction with other combustion equipment, have shown that in all but one case, on cold winter days, use of conventional masonry fireplaces actually resulted in an increase in fossil-fuel consumption for heating. The fireplaces actually had a negative energy efficiency during the tests."
Also the smoke from the fireplaces help cause the smog in California and on some nights fireplaces are banned in Sacramento, Fresno, LA, the Bay area and other California cities.
posted by GregorWill at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2009
"Field trials conducted by the Combustion and Carbonization Research Laboratory (CCRL) of fireplaces in Canadian homes, in conjunction with other combustion equipment, have shown that in all but one case, on cold winter days, use of conventional masonry fireplaces actually resulted in an increase in fossil-fuel consumption for heating. The fireplaces actually had a negative energy efficiency during the tests."
Also the smoke from the fireplaces help cause the smog in California and on some nights fireplaces are banned in Sacramento, Fresno, LA, the Bay area and other California cities.
posted by GregorWill at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2009
Because they're ugly areas of your living room that make furniture arrangement and television placement difficult?
Have you ever noticed how the fireplace is always -right- where you want the TV? Or the couch? Or a table? They look great in magazines but in practicality they're not really that desirable (in my opinion).
We drywalled over the fireplace in my house to make for a more comfortable (and more sellable) living room area.
posted by shew at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2009
Have you ever noticed how the fireplace is always -right- where you want the TV? Or the couch? Or a table? They look great in magazines but in practicality they're not really that desirable (in my opinion).
We drywalled over the fireplace in my house to make for a more comfortable (and more sellable) living room area.
posted by shew at 3:08 PM on December 3, 2009
The best solution for now is an EPA approved wood stove for heating. That way, you can have the pleasure of a fire and not be evil. We recently lived in a house with a working fireplace and it was fantastic. I truly miss it.
This is what I want: Wittus.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 3:31 PM on December 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is what I want: Wittus.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 3:31 PM on December 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you like the look of a fireplace, why not just get an electric one? Then you can move it around when you rearrange the furniture.
posted by Pomo at 5:18 PM on December 3, 2009
posted by Pomo at 5:18 PM on December 3, 2009
Why would homeowners in the colder parts of California would want a fireplace? To heat the house?
Electricity is great but only when it is available. We had a bad ice storm a few years back that knocked out the electricity for weeks. Our only source of heat was the fireplace. People died because they thought they could heat their homes with outdoor BarBQue grills. If I was living in an area cold enough to freeze to death, I would probably want to make sure I had some back-up system for heat in case of power failure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on December 3, 2009
Electricity is great but only when it is available. We had a bad ice storm a few years back that knocked out the electricity for weeks. Our only source of heat was the fireplace. People died because they thought they could heat their homes with outdoor BarBQue grills. If I was living in an area cold enough to freeze to death, I would probably want to make sure I had some back-up system for heat in case of power failure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on December 3, 2009
Secret Life of Gravy: that would be why many of us who live in places like the upper midwest where it does freeze and the power regularly goes out in the winter have kerosene or propane heaters. Or a generator (to run the ignitor and fan on the gas furnace). Or a woodstove that's actually intended for heat rather than show. Or more than one of those items.
A plain old fireplace is (at best) an inefficient way of heating a room, and at worst actually loses heat.
posted by jlkr at 6:26 PM on December 3, 2009
A plain old fireplace is (at best) an inefficient way of heating a room, and at worst actually loses heat.
posted by jlkr at 6:26 PM on December 3, 2009
Air quality laws are the reasons you don't see wood fireplaces in new construction in California.
Pellet stoves are even less polluting than even EPA approved wood stoves. Plus they're adorable.
posted by tula at 6:51 PM on December 3, 2009
Pellet stoves are even less polluting than even EPA approved wood stoves. Plus they're adorable.
posted by tula at 6:51 PM on December 3, 2009
Fireplaces continued to be built for a long time after they became more rarely used because many furnaces (and hot water heaters) used to vent out the same chimney as the fireplace. Newer high-efficiency appliances vent out the side of the house and don't need the chimney anymore, so it's simply a build option where it exists at all.
Have you ever noticed how the fireplace is always -right- where you want the TV? Or the couch? Or a table? They look great in magazines but in practicality they're not really that desirable (in my opinion).
Funny, I've seen many interior decorators mourn the rise of the wide-screen TV precisely for the same reason. To them it's an unattractive big dark blank place that dominates the room, whereas a fireplace has much more visual appeal as well as comfort associations.
Yes, though, in modern thinking the building's heat envelope is like an upside-down bucket. You want to plug everything going up so it doesn't leak out. The chimney and the attic access are two of the worst places. Even if you have a metal damper, it does a really poor job of sealing compared to modern caulked-foamed-whatever high-efficiency weatherproofing.
posted by dhartung at 8:47 PM on December 3, 2009
Have you ever noticed how the fireplace is always -right- where you want the TV? Or the couch? Or a table? They look great in magazines but in practicality they're not really that desirable (in my opinion).
Funny, I've seen many interior decorators mourn the rise of the wide-screen TV precisely for the same reason. To them it's an unattractive big dark blank place that dominates the room, whereas a fireplace has much more visual appeal as well as comfort associations.
Yes, though, in modern thinking the building's heat envelope is like an upside-down bucket. You want to plug everything going up so it doesn't leak out. The chimney and the attic access are two of the worst places. Even if you have a metal damper, it does a really poor job of sealing compared to modern caulked-foamed-whatever high-efficiency weatherproofing.
posted by dhartung at 8:47 PM on December 3, 2009
zachlipton has it.
Often, this is why you'll see houses being massively remodeled (a layperson would call this "tearing down") with only the fireplace left intact. (It's weird to see the brick tower-looking thing left.) That's because they can't rebuild the fireplace, but if it's an artifact of the old construction, they can leave it. This is especially common in ritzy suburbs like Hillsborough.
posted by purpleclover at 1:05 AM on December 4, 2009
Often, this is why you'll see houses being massively remodeled (a layperson would call this "tearing down") with only the fireplace left intact. (It's weird to see the brick tower-looking thing left.) That's because they can't rebuild the fireplace, but if it's an artifact of the old construction, they can leave it. This is especially common in ritzy suburbs like Hillsborough.
posted by purpleclover at 1:05 AM on December 4, 2009
Even our oldish house in the Sacramento area doesn't have a fireplace, which was fine for us. If I want to smell like smoke I'll go camping, and even then there are starting to be restrictions on wood burning.
Certainly not in the Bay Area, but there are plenty of places in Northern California in the foothills and mountains where it could get cold enough to be a health hazard if you don't have heat. Sacramento gets below freezing at least a few times each year.
posted by Big_B at 9:36 AM on December 4, 2009
Certainly not in the Bay Area, but there are plenty of places in Northern California in the foothills and mountains where it could get cold enough to be a health hazard if you don't have heat. Sacramento gets below freezing at least a few times each year.
posted by Big_B at 9:36 AM on December 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by musofire at 1:49 PM on December 3, 2009