Comments on: What is this carpenter building?

Question: What is this carpenter building?

skallas — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:56:19 -0800

Carpenterfilter: What is being built here ? I've been tuning into this unprotected surveillance cam lately (dont ask me why) and have asked a few people but no one I know knows anything about carpentry. Some say a boat, but that seems crazy as there's no way they are getting that thing out of there when they are done.

By: Hildago

Hildago — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:06:04 -0800

Sure looks like a boat to me. You can see what would be a keel, and those frames for the ribbing on the sides. I'm not a boat builder, but I'm related to one. I'll call him and ask him to take a look.

The question of how they're gonna get it out of there applies no matter what it is, though. My guess is they'd take it out of that window at the end of the room?

Hmm.

By: Leon

Leon — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:06:11 -0800

Not an expert, but that's like no boat I've ever seen. Wooden boats have ribs with the grain running along the rib, not sheets of wood with the grain any-which-way.

I can't see any doors, so I'm assuming the door is on the fourth wall, and we can't say what size it is.

My guess would be a mock-up of a boat, maybe for a store window display?

By: skallas

skallas — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:27:44 -0800

Yeah, the door might be on the fourth wall. That blue table could just be blocking it. I don't expect them to open it too often. Looks like they have everything they need so far.

>I'll call him and ask him to take a look.

Thanks.

By: cardboard

cardboard — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:53:59 -0800

That thing haqs the general look of a mold or a jig. It would be used for laying up fiberglass or a sheet-metal skin (or maybe even wood). The wood panels would be there only as guides for the material being used to make the actual (suspected) boat.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:56:57 -0800

For all you know it's a prop that will be taken apart in pieces before they move it.

By: LarryC

LarryC — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:58:42 -0800

I think the sheets of wood are a form for bending the wood of the hull and holding it in temporarily in place. When the the hull is complete the forms are removed. Here is a page with a similar form about 1/2 way down.

Anyone who builds their own wooden boat is hugely cool.

By: eriko

eriko — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:26:26 -0800

It's a boat, being built most likely by lapstrake, but possibly clinker. You can see the lain keel on top, but the sternpost hasn't been installed yet. I don't think the stem is installed either, or it has just been glued and is clamped in.

The temporary jigs and frames are there to allow the strakes to be run. In lapstrake, they butt up against each other, and are fasten to each other and the frame. In clinker, wider boards are used, and the overylay, like shingles.

You can see some of the stringers that will run stem to stern lying under the jigs, which is why I think this one's going to be lapstraked.

I would expect to see the sternpost (where the rudder would attach) and the keelson (where the mast is stepped), but neither seem to be in place (though the keelson may be hidden by the construction.) It looks like the last frame is the actual stern, and the sternpost will attach to both it and the keel, which will put the rudder far enough out to make tiller steering work well.

She looks long -- hard to say from the persepective, but I'm thinking 9 feet at the waterline, drawing 18". Wide amidships. She should sail on a breeze, if here upper works and sail plane are good. Note that the strakes won't go all the way down the jigs -- they're just that tall to make setting the keel and stem easy.

By: arco

arco — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:49:21 -0800

I understood each of eriko's words individually, but not in that order. Knowledge can be awe-inspiring.
Of course, you could have make all of that up and I wouldn't know...

By: Jack Karaoke

Jack Karaoke — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:40:10 -0800

Would have been a good pirate day ask.me.

Guess this is wrapped up, but for those that understand eriko, I noticed there is another profile piece leaning against the left wall, which probably doesn't matter unless it's your unprotected surveillance camera, and that means you left a piece out.

By: taz

taz — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:58:41 -0800

skallas, what's the address of the cam? Re: blue table on fourth wall — it looks to me (enlarging the pic) that this is actually a set of wide (metal?) stairs, and must be the entrance, so probably how the boat will be removed.

I wonder why there's a web cam here?

By: mudpuppie

mudpuppie — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:38:02 -0800

Pshaw.

It's an orthodox russian coffin for someone who's not dead yet.

By: samw

samw — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:23:08 -0800

eriko, everything I've seen says that clinker and lapstrake are the same thing. Did you mean clinker (lapstrake) or carvel? Also, the stringers under the molds do look like they're going to be chine-logs, which would indicate carvel planking.

By: nicwolff

nicwolff — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:45:29 -0800

Yes, what samw said: carvel construction is the general name when the hullboards are butted; clinker is the later name for what the Anglo-Saxons called lapstrake, where the hullboards are lapped. But, excellent analysis by eriko otherwise.

By: eriko

eriko — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:54:19 -0800

Hmm. I recalled the difference between lapstrake and carvel as the width of the boards. Clinker was wide boards, overlaped, carvel was wide boards butted, lapstrake was narrow strips butted. It's a lot of work to overlap narrow strips, though you can do it, but it wasn't done often. You end up with lots of lapped seams, which means lots of caulking. Planed and butted seams are easier to seal. You also get the fact that the wood will swell when wetted, which helps to seal butted joins, but can loosen clinker joins. Nowadays, with modern caulking, it's not as bad.

I'll certainly admit I could be wrong, though. It's been a while since I've been on the water or in the yard.

...means you left a piece out

Nope, not my basement, which is full of servers and bikes. But, yes, there is a piece -- and it's almost certainly the actual stern. Seeing that, the boat may not need a sternpost -- that's a rather thick peice of board, it should be able to handle the rudder alone.

I'm almost certain the boat is going out through the windows.

By: samw

samw — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:02:32 -0800

Also, it occurs to me that those pieces below the molds can't be chine-logs, since the molds aren't hard-chined. Frames, probably.

By: jennyjenny

jennyjenny — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:00:46 -0800

eriko, you rock.

By: Miko

Miko — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:00:59 -0800

I would expect to see the sternpost (where the rudder would attach) and the keelson (where the mast is stepped), but neither seem to be in place (though the keelson may be hidden by the construction.) It looks like the last frame is the actual stern, and the sternpost will attach to both it and the keel, which will put the rudder far enough out to make tiller steering work well.

Some clarification: What you're calling jigs are actually termed molds. A wooden boat of this size built on molds normally features lapstrake planking ('clinker' is the modernism, traditionalists like to say 'lapstrake', same thing, width doesn't matter) or a combination of lapstrake for the top few strakes and carvel along the bottom for better aquadynamics.

This is a very early stage of construction, but the lack of frames and use of molds indicate that lapstrake planking is probably planned. The word frames is the proper way to refer to what landsmen tend to call ribs, and none have been installed yet in this picture; that alone suggests lapstrake, because normally you build lapstrake planking around the molds, then steam-bend your frames once the planking is done and force the frames, still hot, into the planking as molds are removed. You hold them there with clamps until they cool into position. For a carvel-planked boat or a large vessel, you construct the frames first, anchor them into the keel, and then bolt your planks directly to the frames. Molds are usually not used for this type of planking at all.

In this photo, there is no lumber suitable for planking visible. Most good-quality planking for lapstrake boats of this size is 3/8" white cedar, and very long pieces, obviously, are necessary. Lapstrake planks are not fastened directly to the frames; they're fastened directly to each other by either clinch-nailing (nailing through then turning the points under) or copper riveting (best method). You move down the plank placing fastenings every 2-4" or so. Of course this is pretty wiggly; that's why the frames are necessary, to stiffen the boat and make it act as unit.

You wouldn't expect to see a keelson right now; that's a finish piece, and will go in at the end, screwed down in the interior above the true keel. That's when all the other finish pieces - thwarts, seats, gunwale, steering gear - are installed. The true keel is visible, because that is one of the earliest pieces cut, and the molds are fitted to it. The mold closest to us in the picture is just that, a mold, and not the transom, which would be constructed of something other than plywood. Most commonly oak or another strong, hard, rot-resistant wood.

By: Miko

Miko — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:07:41 -0800

Whoops -- yes, those pieces under the right-hand side of the molds are just right for frames, so you've got yourself a lapstrake boat there without doubt.

This could go out through the windows, but also the wall the camera is mounted on might contain a wide door. Another technique, where you have wooden walls, is just to remove a wall...many backyard boatbuilders use a garage or shed and just have a simple plywood wall that crowbars out and nails back in.

Someone I used to work with built a boat in a Manhattan apartment. You can get 'em out of the wildest places with enough suckers to help.

Also, the 'stern' is a general location, not a part. The piece against the wall is indeed looking like the transom, upon which you'd mount the rudder and paint the name of the boat.

This knowledge brought to you by the Mystic Seaport boatbuilding programs.