Looking for a walkable place to live

January 10, 2005 5:20 AM

Walkable Community Question. I'm an expat American, looking to move back soon - My family and I want to live in a small, walkable, thriving community without too much sprawl. Please guide me. [MI]

In particular - plusses would be: Organic food co-ops, good public transport, slightly hippyish, (but not too feral), alternative schooling options, theaters, museums, coffee houses - etc. I don't want much I know ...

posted by Dag Maggot to travel & transportation (43 comments total)

all things are relative, but if you can afford it, I'd look to my hood, Park Slope, in Brooklyn--it's really perfect, except perhaps for the price of housing. Takoma Park, MD also comes to mind, but that's in a different universe. Madison, WI also.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:33 AM on January 10, 2005

Yeah, I was going to mention madison WI. It's actually a cool little college town-y type of place, but very well known for its get-around-ability.
posted by mdn at 5:42 AM on January 10, 2005

Hmm Yeah - Madison looks good. I wonder about the winters though ... There's a price to pay for everything I suppose.
posted by Dag Maggot at 5:57 AM on January 10, 2005

Well, over here, we have already had shorts weather in December (nearly), so...
posted by ParisParamus at 6:00 AM on January 10, 2005

Pick any town in New Hampshire or Vermont with about 30,000 people. If it has a local college or university, you're all set.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:03 AM on January 10, 2005

See also this old AskMe thread.
posted by misteraitch at 6:13 AM on January 10, 2005

Uptown Minneapolis, MN will give you all that plus tree-lined streets. It's damn cold in winter, though.
posted by trharlan at 6:16 AM on January 10, 2005

Carrboro/Chapel Hill, North Carolina? (Live in Carrboro for the cheaper housing costs and small-town feel, take a 10-minute free bus to Chapel Hill for the more cultural stuff).

Biggest asset: free buses. And weather that's not like in Wisconsin or Minneapolis.
posted by Jeanne at 6:19 AM on January 10, 2005

Madison is small and hippyish, but it's actually not as walkable as the thriving community 80 miles to the east on Lake Michigan, Milwaukee. Madison may be the nation's largest small town, but Milwaukee's the nation's smallest, nicest big city; Milwaukee's the out-of-college-but-still-indie-rock older brother to Madison's slightly naive freshman-year sister. In real-world terms, this means that Milwaukee is a little cheaper, has a bit more culture and a better job market while still being progressive; Madison has the better university, a higher cost of living and a slightly more insular community.

I'm currently in Philly -- the disgruntled father of the rust-belt cities -- having had lived in Wisconsin for 15 years previously. Philly is pretty damn walkable, too -- more so than either Milwaukee or Madison -- and has most of the things you're looking for. But hippyish? Not on your life.

The winters in Wisconsin can indeed be pretty crappy.
posted by eschatfische at 6:26 AM on January 10, 2005

New Paltz, NY. About an hour and a half from NYC, incredibly progressive college town, and real purtty!
posted by LouReedsSon at 6:28 AM on January 10, 2005

If you're interested in New England, you may want to look into Portsmouth, NH, and Amherst, and Northampton, MA, plus some of the suburbs of Boston like Waltham and Watertown (which have excellent public busses and commuter rails into the city.) They all meet your criteria of small, liberal and all have a nice walkable town center with all your shopping requirements. For Portsmouth, I'm not sure about the school options but I'm pretty sure there's alternative schooling in the other locations. These are all a little expensive though if you're looking to buy a house.

For the Midwest, I've heard that Bloomington, IN is pretty nice.

For the Southwest, I love Flagstaff, AZ (which meets most of your requirements, except again, I'm not sure about alternative schools.) The winters are like New England, but you can drive an hour to visit nicer weather. It's cheap and close to the G. Canyon and Sedona, but the industry revolves mostly around tourism and N. Arizona U.
posted by sophie at 6:31 AM on January 10, 2005

I have to say, I like the look of Carrboro Jeanne - And love the slogan, "Come mill around in Carrboro" That's almost better than the Oklahoma license plates that say "Oklahoma is OK"

Serioulsy that looks like a cool southern, slightly under-discovered town - thanks.
posted by Dag Maggot at 6:37 AM on January 10, 2005

Honestly, that sounds like my < href="http://www.foreverelmwood.com/">old neighborhood in Buffalo. Well, except for the schools. I have no clue about that. Super-low cost of living, but you have to love snow.
posted by Kellydamnit at 6:39 AM on January 10, 2005

ugh... typo in html tag! should be a link to here.

Serves me right for breezing through "preview."
posted by Kellydamnit at 6:41 AM on January 10, 2005

Describes Portland to a "t".
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 6:46 AM on January 10, 2005

This really isn't so much a "What town" question as a "What part of town."

Check out places with an old (pre-1900) and large (15000+ students) university. I'd think that almost any one of them would have a part of town that's very walkable, and have the requisite organic stuff and culture stuff, and probably have at least a half-assed bus system to some interesting places.

The things you'll have to actively search for are the alternative schooling options (though (almost?) every state in the union allows home-schooling, if that's what you mean), general attitudes that you like amongst the students, and affordability.

If you lived in the right parts of town, Charlottesville VA would work. So would Gainesville FL. So would Carrboro/Chapel Hill (but the cool kids move out of town into the woods of Chatham County even if it's less walkable there). So would Denton TX. I'd bet you a good meal that you could also find a similar life in parts of Lawrence KS, or Iowa City, IA, or Lexington KY, or Athens GA, or Bloomington IN, or Urbana/Champaign IL, or Moscow ID, or Missoula MT, or...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:48 AM on January 10, 2005

Ithaca, NY. It's a one company town (Cornell) but otherwise meets your criteria.
posted by NorthCoastCafe at 6:53 AM on January 10, 2005

Dag -- Carrboro is far from undiscovered. When I was in the area, I thought of it mostly as a den of liberal yuppies, with the accent on the yuppies. It seemed well-meaning, but only liberal as long as it didn't mess up the property values.

The "undiscovered" town in the area is probably Mebane, a couple of stops south/west on the interstate or north on NC86, but it's not terribly funky yet and it had been getting more and more discovered when I left in 2000. Good barbecue.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:54 AM on January 10, 2005

Rou_Xenophobe: Denton, Texas? You have to be kidding me - ugh. I used to live fairly close, and i mean...its the most walkable place in north texas next to Dallas, but thats not saying much. And the University of North Tezas isnt quite the university that any of those other towns have.
posted by jare2003 at 6:55 AM on January 10, 2005

We have all that in DC. It ain't cheap, though.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:17 AM on January 10, 2005

Asheville, NC, where I live. But, I'm sorry, you can only move here if you promise to start a business that employs 10 or more people at a living wage. It really is awesome here and I love it; it has everything you're looking for BUT. . .there is the slight caveat that it has the highest housing costs in the state combined with the lowest salaries - and there are no jobs unless you're in the medical field (scads of retirees.) Still, we are walkable, have organic food co-ops, museums, theatres, coffeeshops, great local music scene, wonderful alternative schools, a lot going on and hippies. Some are feral, true, but they just add to the mix.
posted by mygothlaundry at 7:40 AM on January 10, 2005

New Paltz, NY. About an hour and a half from NYC, incredibly progressive college town, and real purtty!

I grew up in Poughkeepsie and spent a lot of time in New Paltz and I dont' see how New Paltz in ANY way is walkable. Sure, you can walk up and down Main Street, but Main Street is the only part of the place that I would consider walkable and the vast majority of stores and businesses on the one strip cater to tourism and schmaltzy college hippies. Plus, for a decent supermarket, where are you gonna go? You're going to have to drive either to Poughkeepsie or Kingston. Not fun.

Also, New Paltz is a very, very tiny spot of progressiveness (and it's mostly early 20s, late teens over earnest lefty progression) in a vast, vast sea of stubborn, crusty conservatism. It's not a community in the same sense that Woodstock is.

I would have to throw my hat in for Ann Arbor, Michigan. Extremely walkable, very progressive, flooded with students but also a home to grown up, progressive minded professionals, artists, scientists, etc. LOTS of cultural activities both hard core (punk, alternative, hardcore clubs), folky, classical and electronic. And, the best reason of all, Zingermann's Deli.
posted by spicynuts at 7:46 AM on January 10, 2005

I'm currently in Madison, WI--lived here all my life, actually--and I'd highly recommend it (feel free to email with questions) except that:

1. Winters really can be bad. It's not a problem if you're used to it, or you don't mind cold/snow/ice, but if you're coming from Bermuda you're in for a shock.

2. Some parts of town are more walkable than others, and few parts of town are really fully self-sufficient for walkers (especially in terms of a decent grocery store). There are several co-ops and markets, lots of specialty stores, and some large grocery stores, but they are generally easier to access if you have a car. Unfortuately the downtown, while it has most everything else, does not have a good grocery store.

3. There is a bus system, but it seems to work best for commuting into the downtown area. If you have to get off the main arteries, or if you're traveling at off-peak times, you're in for a lot of waiting around. It's really helpful to have access to a car, even if you only use it a couple of times a week.

I really love Madison, and it's about the only city in Wisconsin I'd want to live in (it really is a world unto itself--very different than much of the rest of the state). I think it works well for most of the criteria on your list.

You might consider the Williamson (Willy) Street neighborhood. It's a hippy-ish place with a FABULOUS cooperative and beautiful older buildings. And the signs on the street lamps say "A Place For All People."
posted by handful of rain at 7:49 AM on January 10, 2005

Portland, Oregon.

And Walkable.org has lots of good suggestions.
posted by naomi at 7:51 AM on January 10, 2005

... especially on this page.
posted by naomi at 7:52 AM on January 10, 2005

Portland, Oregon. The city itself is very well laid out, public trans is awesome. I walked a ton there, because I could. There is sprawl, but you shouldn't need to worry much about it.

On preview: naomi beat me to it.
posted by FlamingBore at 7:53 AM on January 10, 2005

Yeah... I've gotta third the Portland suggestion. Or Eugene, if Portland is too big for you.
posted by ph00dz at 7:55 AM on January 10, 2005

I live in Chapel Hill/Carrboro -- been here for about ten years. There's a lot going for it, but price isn't one of those things. Chatham County (south of here) has become a haven, but the demand has increased the prices. Mebane is too far a drive if you want to work in Chapel Hill/Carrboro or RTP (though I should say that I consider 20 minutes too far to drive).

I walk to work (at the university), which is my favorite thing about living here. I can also testify that there are some good restaurants and decent cultural options. I grew up in NYC, so I feel like I have some authori-tie to judge. Carrboro has a great Farmer's Market and a co-op, and there are lots of farms in the area that have CSA programs. And right now our weather is in the 60s. Ha! I'm not saying it's Shangri-La; there are issues. ROU_Xenophobe is on the right track about the yuppies -- but these at least are yuppies who want to be hippies. Actually, that might be worse than a regular old yuppie.

Hey, email me if you want to know more.
posted by butternut at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2005

City Comforts Blog is an interesting and informative site about urban design and liveability, with links to other useful sites such as Greatstreets.org.
posted by planetkyoto at 8:14 AM on January 10, 2005

If you lived in the right parts of town, Charlottesville VA would work.

Nope, sorry. We're full up here. Not lettin' anybody else in. DNA sample, blood tests, urine sample. Plus we...uh...passed a law against health food and...erm...kids.

I gotta go and catch the bus^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H hop in my Hummer.
posted by waldo at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2005

Eugene, OR has all the qualities you mention and is more "hippyish" (it may be, in fact, the standard by which all other hippy towns are judged). There are lots of alternative schools, a fairly vibrant cultural scene (Eugene is home to the largest state university), pretty good public transportation (and the best bike-path system I've ever seen), and yet still retains a "small town feel".

Portland is a great, very pretty city, but the too-cool-for-you indie hipster vibe is pervasive and gets real old, real fast.

Check out Ashland, OR too... way more on the hippy-dippy, arty side, but is a nice, very walkable town.
posted by maniactown at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2005

Denton, Texas? You have to be kidding me - ugh.

It's certainly pretty fuckin' far from being Paris. But if you live north of UNT and west of TWU, you can walk to either campus, or to stores including the local hippy-dippy organic store and the various coffeehouses, and you'd be in a not horribly undiverse area of nice old houses.

My point wasn't to extol Denton's virtues, such as they are. Mostly they boil down to "Hey, it's better than Addison, and there's a good used bookstore."

I only meant that it seems obvious that Mr. Maggot wants to move to a college town and there are easily 100+ that would probably be fine.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:40 AM on January 10, 2005

Mebane is too far a drive if you want to work in Chapel Hill/Carrboro or RTP

I dunno. It's about 10 minutes from 86 & 40. It's not much worse than living on the north side of Chapel Hill if you want to commute to UNC. If you want to commute to Durham or the east side of Chapel Hill, it's very convenient.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:49 AM on January 10, 2005

...to 40 & 15-501, or to 85 thru Durham.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2005

If you want to know more about Denton, this film is an excellent introduction.
posted by eschatfische at 8:52 AM on January 10, 2005

Just going over some of the suggestions in Naomi's link:

• I've whiled away many an hour daydreaming about Flagstaff. Lovely place, especially if you ski.
• New York City is fantastic, if you can handle it. After a few years, I couldn't.
• Only been there once, but my impression of Princeton was that everyone there is so convinced that they are more important than you are that there is no way they will get out of your way, yield to you in traffic, or stop talking so loudly on their cell phones in the restaurant. Otherwise, it's a beautiful town.
• I totally have a crush on Philly right now. If I could move to a big city tomorrow, it would be Philadelphia.
• I don't remember my visit to New Orleans, but I think it was lovely. Good food comes to mind, for reasons still hazy to me.
• Austin is wildly, vastly overrated IMHO. If I had to move back to Tejas, I'd be in San Antonio.
• Missoula is a very nice, very casual, kinda down-homey town
• Portland is lovely, but my NJ-born and -raised wife laughs at me when I suggest it's a big city.
• Corvallis is wonderful. Pack a sunlamp if you get seasonal depression.
• Ashland is growing way too fast, IMHO. It used to have a lot more soul.

posted by willpie at 9:58 AM on January 10, 2005

Maniactown - Actually, Portland State University is MUCH larger (by about 10k students) than University of Oregon.
I wouldn't say that Portland is that hippy and walkable anymore, though. Certain parts are, but downtown you end up having to drive to pick up certain things and there aren't big discount stores (i.e. Target, hardware stores) that have the kinds of housewares you sometimes need down there... so you have to travel several miles out into the suburbs.

I'd look for a small town somewhere on the east coast, like in West Virginia or North Carolina.
posted by SpecialK at 12:07 PM on January 10, 2005

I'd like to second (or third...) Portland Oregon as an option. It might be a little bigger than you had in mind though. If you got some dough though and want to live in "downtown" The Pearl Distrcit would be nice and could walk everywhere. I wouldn't want to live there, but that's me and I don't have much money... If you want something a lot more "hippie" and cheap, then I'd recommend close-in East Side near the People's Co-op around 20th and Division. Really, unless your'e into the Pearl, stick to the East Side.

If Portland is too big, then Eugene (where I grew up...) would be a good option. It's a great town but growing up down there makes you want to get the hell out of that place. Hippie Central! If Eugene is too big and you're looking for something a little more "country" then you should also look into Ashland in southern Oregon.
posted by pwb503 at 12:54 PM on January 10, 2005

I am very happy that Oregon is making such a strong showing in this thread! I grew up in Corvallis and it's a fantastic city to raise kids in, even the public schools are pretty good (at least when I was there; most of the Great Teachers are probably gone by now though). The sprawl was getting worse last time I visited, but the unmitigated power of the Downtown Business Association should keep it in check (and they will never ever allow a Walmart to open within city limits).

I live in Portland now. It is also fantastic - as far as neighborhoods go, I think the Hawthorne district would be perfect for what you described. The Sellwood area is also really walkable and livable (at least now that they reopened the Bybee bridge...). Public transportation is wonderful, coffee every two blocks, some great colleges (Reed, Lewis and Clark, PSU, the Art Institute), and most of the other stuff you mentioned. Although your criteria asked for a small community - Portland might seem like a city before you get used to it, but once you know your way around, it's really more like four or five little towns that bleed into each other. And it's not so big that you're ever more than a 30 minute drive from spending some time in Oregon's great scenic outdoors.

Ashland is a great city as well, though the surrounding areas are pretty conservative, and Medford is the meth capital of the west coast these days. Ashland is probably more old-school hippie than Corvallis or Portland, but the price is a really, really long drive to get to Portland for shows or flights. But if you like Shakespeare, you could probably get all the culture you want from the Shakespeare Festival. They also have great bike shops, amazing lithium water, and one of the best public school debate programs on the west coast if not the country.
posted by pikachulolita at 2:38 PM on January 10, 2005

Thanks for all of the great suggestions - Eugene seems to fit the bill very nicely as well. It's funny to see how the suggestions move from East coast to West coast, as America wakes up ... this gives me lots of food for thought.
posted by Dag Maggot at 3:23 PM on January 10, 2005

Re: naomi's list and willpie's objections: I think Austin is a great place to live but I don't think it is walkable. Although I did survive there with no car for a lot longer than I would have in Dallas or Houston. I don't think San Antonio is really walkable either.
posted by grouse at 3:53 PM on January 10, 2005

spicynuts: Guess I need to travel more.
posted by LouReedsSon at 5:08 PM on January 10, 2005

I'm too tired to sell it, but Davis, CA, meets your criteria.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:41 PM on January 10, 2005