Should I apply for the same university teaching job twice?

November 12, 2009 8:58 PM

Should I apply to the same academic position twice? I was a finalist and they ended up not hiring anyone after everyone had interviewed (the job wasn't cut because of budget issues or something like that). They just decided not to fill it and passed on me.

The Backstory:
A year ago I applied for a teaching position at a cool university where I attended graduate school (many moons ago).

I applied after being urged by two former professors who knew my skillset and thought I could contribute to the school. I thought I had a good shot at the job and love the city and university, so I applied.

I interviewed and was declared a finalist for the job. I was offered another job at another school that was good, but I passed on it with the hopes that I'd get this dream job. I did the in-person interview, guest taught a class (which got rave reviews from the students and the teacher whom I was teaching for), presented to the faculty and then went home and waited.

And waited. Then sent a message to the search committee chair to check in, who said they were still making a decision.

Then I waited more. When my lease was coming up, I contacted them and asked if there was anything new. They said they were going to continue looking, that I was still a 'finalist' but that I should do what I needed to do and not wait for them.

It's several months later now and I checked in with one of the professors I knew and it ends up that they did not hire anyone (and not because of budget reasons). The professor said:

"...What happened is something I’ve seen happen frequently in searches (both here and in industry). The committee fell in love with one candidate (who really was unique and outstanding) and when that candidate turned us down, all the rest seemed to pale by comparison. Don’t take it personally … it was a function of the dynamics associated with that particular search. ..."

The professor also mentioned that for next year, they're going to have multiple similar openings to hire and added this:

"... And if you were not discouraged by your experience the last time, and are still interested, you should consider applying again. If you don’t want to, though, I’ll understand. One small difference this time around: I’m co-chairing the committee..."


The Dilemma:
Should I bother applying again or is that pathetic? I feel like this is going on a date with an ex.

I really like this school, the area it's in and I think I'm capable of doing this job well (it'd be a freaking uphill battle because of some bureaucracy/legacy staff issues but I could do it). I'm also still kinda bitter about what happened last year -- especially after the students gave such a high evaluation of the class I taught. It seems that I didn't get the job because of some political b.s. or something and that the administrators aren't really looking out for finding the best teachers. Part of the prof telling me that I could apply again might just be them trying to be nice, because they are a very nice person overall.

If I apply, should I just use the same resume/cover letter/materials? If I change things, it seems like the original was lies. If I keep it the same, it's like I didn't try applying.

Personally, how can I get over this resentment I feel?

Anyone have advice or experience with this or other things I should be thinking about?

Thanks for your help!

posted by jkl345 to Work & Money (25 answers total)

Apply apply apply. Never let dignity prevent you from doing something you love.
posted by smoke at 9:11 PM on November 12, 2009 [7 favorites]

PS update - not change - definitely the cover letter, and maybe selection criteria materials a little. Not resume. Feel free to highlight how much you enjoyed guest lecturing, kissing ass at the university, etc. etc. last time, and how it confirmed what a good fit you felt like.

PPS. Cradle your resentment like a small flame in a gale if you like, it doesn't matter. If you land the job, it will wink out like a dying star, and if you don't - who cares? The hate will make you all the more vehement when applying elsewhere!
posted by smoke at 9:14 PM on November 12, 2009

As one data point, I got my current faculty position after interviewing the second time. I tell people on the faculty job search that you have at most 40% control over your destiny, because there are so many issues with respect to budget, department needs, resources, covering teaching, and so on. So, if you think you'd be good for the job, I'd say yes, apply again.
posted by jasonhong at 9:16 PM on November 12, 2009

Do you want this job? Because if you don't ask, you don't get.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:22 PM on November 12, 2009

I think the prof's hinting that the political BS this time might work in your favor.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:25 PM on November 12, 2009

"... blah blah blah, you should consider applying again. blah blah blah. One small difference this time around: I’m co-chairing the committee...".

Apply again. If the professor was just being nice (s)he wouldn't have put in the part about co-chairing the committee, since that implies they have a say in who gets hired.
posted by true at 9:29 PM on November 12, 2009 [2 favorites]

I would think that saying that just to be nice would not include the little "I'm co-chairing..." bit. That could easily be left out if it weren't meant to genuinely encourage you.
posted by ctmf at 9:29 PM on November 12, 2009

I've seen such dynamics on hiring committees on both sides of the desk. Apply.
posted by kch at 9:36 PM on November 12, 2009

Of course you should apply.

I once applied for an academic job and didn't even make the first round. The search failed. They posted a slightly revised job description, and I didn't apply, figuring, if they wanted me, they would have wanted me the first round.

Then I got an email letting me know the job had been re-posted and suggesting I apply. I did re-apply, and got a job offer (after interview and such).

Swallow your pride. Because it really wasn't about you.

Also, a different search committee means this is a whole different thing.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:43 PM on November 12, 2009

Yeah, apply. Your prof was doing more than just being polite, by mentioning the co-chairing thing s/he's hinting that s/he wants you to apply. S/he might end up overruled again, but what the hell. If you're not irretrievably soured by the whole thing, apply again. (But if you have a good offer in hand from somewhere else, give your target school an ultimatum and then be ready to take the real offer if target school can't get its act together.)

Also the forums at the Chronicle of Higher Ed have useful job-search-agony sections where you can run cover letter etc questions by a knowledgable audience; might be useful as you go though this again.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:48 PM on November 12, 2009

The best academic job search advice I got was to remember that the process was going to appear completely irrational from my end. Schools with jobs that appeared to fit perfectly never called, jobs I thought were a long shot pursued my application, and a school you've never heard of may end up being the perfect fit. It's entirely possible that they weren't looking for the best teachers but were looking at your potential scholarly contributions as well. A big concern of hiring committees for tenure track jobs is whether it looks like you could get tenure. So your teaching materials are probably still great, but you may need to bulk up your research plan, even if you're not applying to an R1 or R2 school, to allay the concerns of some of the higher ups.

Update your job documents with your accomplishments, especially any progress you've made as a researcher/scholar, since the last hiring cycle and send them in with as little emotional investment as possible. One big sigh of resignation as you stick it in the mail (or push send if submitting electronically) and then let go of it. If you'd like and if it seems relevant to the situation, add something to your job letter about your revised research plan for the next few years. That will show them that you are looking beyond your teaching to the other contributions you can make to the department and your field.
posted by BlooPen at 9:52 PM on November 12, 2009

After seeing these hiring searches from both sides of the table, there is SO MUCH BS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. So don't be bitter 'cause your mind will continue to get blown on a monthly basis at that insanity called "the faculty meeting." Truly.

Apply again, with a smile. And a wink of understanding of how these things go. And a friendly email back to the person who just wrote you that note. And an updated letter and resume and a million crossed fingers and toes. Good luck. APPLY APPLY!
posted by barnone at 11:05 PM on November 12, 2009

One of the professors I work with got her position after the second time she interviewed in two years. The first year they didn't hire anyone because they didn't think anyone met the criteria. NO offers were made. Not a one. Then the next year the position was listed again, she reapplied, reinterviewed, and because there had been some department and faculty changes, she was made an offer that she really should have been made the year before.

So, short answer. Yes!
posted by zizzle at 2:28 AM on November 13, 2009

By all means, apply again, with updated materials. Make it clear that you have been doing something with your career in the interim. From what you report, it sounds like you have a decent shot. Faculty hiring committees are strange, recalcitrant beasts, and searches that fail because of internal squabbling are really common. It's a good sign that there will be someone else chairing the committee this time.

Maybe this is not an issue in your particular case, but having been a grad student at a place is usually a strike against you when it comes to hiring. It's not impossible to overcome -- especially if you happen to be brilliant -- but expect that someone on the hiring committee will be concerned, and that the university administration will make odd rumblings about this too. What do you bring to the department that is new and fresh? In some part of your application try to show that you will add something innovative to the mix, and you can make a good case for overcoming this objection.

One other (small) thing: if, at the end of the hiring season, you end up with a choice, think about whether you really want to work in a department that could have hired you earlier and didn't. I personally would find this dynamic awkward. It was hard enough for me in my current job, where I know I was the third choice after the other two finalists went elsewhere. I stuck it out and made it to tenure, but it has been just a bit of a psychological burden knowing I was a last resort hire, as it were. But look, that's just me and my super-sensitive psyche. Most people are made of tougher stuff, and anyway, in this job market, it's not worth considering until you actually have to choose between job offers. Go for it!
posted by philokalia at 4:13 AM on November 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

apply, but hope none of them read Ask Mefi
posted by moorooka at 4:55 AM on November 13, 2009

The fact that you have the tenacity to apply twice is a plus for many selection committees.

Yes, I have been on these committees.

Run up your best application and be ready to succeed!
posted by Wolof at 6:08 AM on November 13, 2009

Of course you should apply again. The worst that would happen is they say "No," which has already happened.
posted by chairface at 7:13 AM on November 13, 2009

Is this "teaching position" an (1) assistant professorship or reputable postdoc, (2) a visiting professorship, or (3) an adjunct position?

(1) Reputable U.S. institutions only rarely even consider their own PhDs or postdocs for permanent positions, the top couple places obviously consider their own people more often. European institutions are far more nepotistic but still usually avoid their own PhDs.

(2) A visiting professorship is often given by departments that feel you should remain in academia, but you've thus far failed to find a permanent post. I feel like giving your own PhDs a visiting professorship kinda defeats the purpose, but who knows.

I suspect we are discussing a visiting professorship, as faculty don't usually waste committees on hiring adjuncts, but the post sounds like only one year. Apply if you feel like it.

(3) Adjunct positions are extremely poorly paid and basically exploitive. It's cool if a retired journalist or engineer feels like teaching composition or calculous. It's also fine if a university lets clever *undergrads* TA for lower level courses. But any young PhD adjunct teaching for under $2000 per course per month is doing the profession a disservice.

Adjunct teaching is not how you want to live your life. You might even be better off teaching High School. If you've been adjunct teaching, then you should likely quit and figure out what to do with your life.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:25 AM on November 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

The closed-door dynamics of an academic search committee are as inscrutable from the outside as a marriage. Apply and see what happens.
posted by umbú at 9:07 AM on November 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Update your cv, cover letter, and any supplementary materials and apply like it was the first time. The chair of the search committee encouraged you to do so, so yes, absolutely apply and treat this as entirely new search because, well, it is. The principals have changed, the department & university has probably had at least small changes within the past year, and what they are looking for in a candidate may have evolved as well. Assume all these changes are in your favor, and make the most of this next process.

On a somewhat unrelated note, when you were offered the job you turned down, did you mention it to the committee filling the position you wanted the most? Meaning, did you send them a short email saying something along the lines of, "I have been offered a job at blank, and while I think it is an excellent opportunity, I am more excited about my prospects at your institution. While I understand your process is still underway, is there anything you could share that might sway my decision?" You might have been told that the search was stymied in political bs, so you would be better off accepting the job offer you actually had in hand, and they may have given your application a second look because you were selected by someone else (silly, but true). On the other hand, they may have said nothing of value, and you would have made the same choices.

My point is, when faced with turning down one job while waiting to hear about the fate of another that you want more, always contact the one you are waiting on because you may be given valuable information, your value may rise in their eyes simply because you've been offered another position, and if things have been plodding along, this might light a fire under them a bit. As long as your approach is professional and takes up relatively little of their time, you will never be worse the wear for it. In a former position, I was on the administrative side of several faculty searches for over three years, so this is somewhat informed advice. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 9:21 AM on November 13, 2009

Dude, the hiring committee co-chair told you to apply. How is this even a question? You've got a great shot at the job.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:33 AM on November 13, 2009

It sounds like the first time, some of the faculty were in favor of hiring you, and some of them didn't want to "inbreed" by hiring their own. I have seen really great candidates get shut out because of this. The new co-chair now thinks s/he can sway them in your direction.

The naysayers are usually folks who remember you when you were a student, and you might not really like working with them because of how they view you, so keep that in mind. On the other hand, they will retire and all the newer professors will only see you as a fellow professor.

Give it a shot!
posted by Knowyournuts at 11:10 AM on November 13, 2009

The best academic job search advice I got was to remember that the process was going to appear completely irrational from my end.

That is great advice. I've been on dozens of search committees, and whenever the hiring is done, I'm always amazed at the little twists and turns in the search process that led Dr. So-and-so to get hired over the rest of the pool. Applying costs you relatively little in time and effort, and I wouldn't hesitate to send a packet again this year.
posted by Crotalus at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2009

(1) Reputable U.S. institutions only rarely even consider their own PhDs or postdocs for permanent positions, the top couple places obviously consider their own people more often.

On review, this is also very true and could be what sunk you last time, and will sink you this time, but who knows . . .
posted by Crotalus at 11:51 AM on November 13, 2009

Response by poster: Wow. Thanks everyone for the encouragement. It was almost unilaterally an emphatic "do it!' in response. :)

Everyone who thought there might be a problem with me being from the school -- I was concerned about this going into the process and I explicity asked that multiple times in my interviews and they assured me that it was no problem. One prof went as far to say that they actually *preferred* candidates who studied there because I would know the legacy, tradition and strict demands required by this program of their students. While there may be a wee chance of that they passed because of my study there, I also know of at least 4 professors who attended the school, went out and rocked in the business, then came back to teach as tenure track profs. This school really, really, really, really, really values practical experience and expertise and not PhD's and the traditional academia honors. Which might prove to be frustrating (like I mentioned, I rocked at the teaching portion but that didn't put me over the edge).

Jeff Burges -- Thanks for your detailed response and expertise in the hiring process/positions at universities. I can't go into great detail about the school but unfortunately, most of what you said doesn't apply to me. Without giving away more detail than I'm willing to, this is a tenure track position but at an institution that doesn't require a PhD, and instead it's one that demands high-tech skills and entrepreneurship in the workforce. I'll definitely keep your advice in mind though if I go after something at another school. And you're right, Adjunct Teaching BLOWS. All the work for none of the benefits.

philokalia - Your last paragraph is something I'm worried about. :\ But I'll try to confront it head on and get over it.

Thanks again to everyone for their help -- especially those insiders who have worked on both sides of the academic hiring business. This was really helpful.
posted by jkl345 at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2009