Mental Health filter: How do I get over feeling manipulative over asking for a service dog from a spouse who isn't keen on pets?
November 5, 2009 6:12 PM Subscribe
Mental Health filter: I have an opportunity to get a psychiatric service dog FOR FREE. Husband has been not so positive about getting a dog. How can I resolve my bad feelings over this whole mess?
I am a female veteran with PTSD. I sit at home all day, on the days I even get out of bed. I am well medicated, and in group and individual therapy, I just have nothing to do at home except sleep and surf the web.
I learned of the Sam Simon Foundation. They now offer trained service dogs for FREE to women veterans with PTSD, and are about 30 miles form my house! I got an application from my therapist at the VA.
I had discussed getting a dog with my husband several times over the last year. I have had dogs and cats in the past. They were extremely therapeutic for me, as well as extremely well trained, obedient, clean, and friendly.
When I met this man, he told me he was allergic to cats. I had 3 at the time. I was still working then, although I was getting sicker and sicker, and could not keep up with my life. I "got rid" (i.e. had them killed at the pound) of the cats so I could have this man. It seemed fine at the time, but my resentment is growing along with my loneliness and sorrow.
Anyway, every time I would bring up the idea of adopting a dog (NOT a puppy!) he would get scowly and sigh deeply and make excuses, ask if we can discuss it later, etc. I really got the feeling that he did NOT want a dog in the house.
I don't expect him to have much to do with the dog, and his only involvement will be to meet the dog so it knows he is ok to be around me. I will be feeding, walking, cleaning up after it, training it, and using it to help me live a more normal life when my husband is not around. (I don't know what happens when my husband IS around, but with all the time he spends on the computer or in other rooms, I only feel like I'm WITH him when we are out together, usually 2 days a week for about 4 hours or less each time.) But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
Now I had this wonderful opportunity to help me. (Not only am I alone when he is at work, but when he leaves town on business I am FRIGHTENED and paranoid and unable to sleep and nervous. I only leave the house with him, or if I have an appointment.)
Today I decided I would ask him one last time. I decided that a response of "Can we discuss this later?" would be construed as a negative response, as "Later" has never arrived when he uses that dodge.
I held up the application packet, and asked if I could do this. He dropped his head into his hands, scowled, and sighed deeply. I said, "Fine, your actions are an indication of you feelings, so I won't bother you with this idea ever again", and put the application away to return to my therapist to give to another woman who could have this treasure.
Now my husband is saying ok, fine, we can do this, he wants me to have things that will help me. But I DON'T want to feel like I manipulated or guilt tripped him into this. (His ex had rescued a dog, but never trained it, much less neutered it. I get the feeling he really disliked this animal. This was his only exposure to dogs. My dogs were all CGC, and trophy winners in obedience, but he has never experienced animals at that level.)
Should I go ahead and do this? How can I resolve my feelings of guilt, and like I manipulated him and nagged him over this? And how can I stop crying and feeling so sad and lonely and unmotivated all the time?
I am a female veteran with PTSD. I sit at home all day, on the days I even get out of bed. I am well medicated, and in group and individual therapy, I just have nothing to do at home except sleep and surf the web.
I learned of the Sam Simon Foundation. They now offer trained service dogs for FREE to women veterans with PTSD, and are about 30 miles form my house! I got an application from my therapist at the VA.
I had discussed getting a dog with my husband several times over the last year. I have had dogs and cats in the past. They were extremely therapeutic for me, as well as extremely well trained, obedient, clean, and friendly.
When I met this man, he told me he was allergic to cats. I had 3 at the time. I was still working then, although I was getting sicker and sicker, and could not keep up with my life. I "got rid" (i.e. had them killed at the pound) of the cats so I could have this man. It seemed fine at the time, but my resentment is growing along with my loneliness and sorrow.
Anyway, every time I would bring up the idea of adopting a dog (NOT a puppy!) he would get scowly and sigh deeply and make excuses, ask if we can discuss it later, etc. I really got the feeling that he did NOT want a dog in the house.
I don't expect him to have much to do with the dog, and his only involvement will be to meet the dog so it knows he is ok to be around me. I will be feeding, walking, cleaning up after it, training it, and using it to help me live a more normal life when my husband is not around. (I don't know what happens when my husband IS around, but with all the time he spends on the computer or in other rooms, I only feel like I'm WITH him when we are out together, usually 2 days a week for about 4 hours or less each time.) But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
Now I had this wonderful opportunity to help me. (Not only am I alone when he is at work, but when he leaves town on business I am FRIGHTENED and paranoid and unable to sleep and nervous. I only leave the house with him, or if I have an appointment.)
Today I decided I would ask him one last time. I decided that a response of "Can we discuss this later?" would be construed as a negative response, as "Later" has never arrived when he uses that dodge.
I held up the application packet, and asked if I could do this. He dropped his head into his hands, scowled, and sighed deeply. I said, "Fine, your actions are an indication of you feelings, so I won't bother you with this idea ever again", and put the application away to return to my therapist to give to another woman who could have this treasure.
Now my husband is saying ok, fine, we can do this, he wants me to have things that will help me. But I DON'T want to feel like I manipulated or guilt tripped him into this. (His ex had rescued a dog, but never trained it, much less neutered it. I get the feeling he really disliked this animal. This was his only exposure to dogs. My dogs were all CGC, and trophy winners in obedience, but he has never experienced animals at that level.)
Should I go ahead and do this? How can I resolve my feelings of guilt, and like I manipulated him and nagged him over this? And how can I stop crying and feeling so sad and lonely and unmotivated all the time?
I think you should get a new husband.
posted by sickinthehead at 6:18 PM on November 5, 2009 [36 favorites]
posted by sickinthehead at 6:18 PM on November 5, 2009 [36 favorites]
You killed three cats you ostensibly loved to be with this man. If he doesn't like the dog, what's your plan? I'm not trying to be harsh, but before you bring an animal into this situation you need to very clearly come up with - at least - a solid back-up plan.
And I suggest talking about your relationship to your therapist, because it sounds seriously unhealthy and must be contributing to your depression.
posted by you're a kitty! at 6:23 PM on November 5, 2009 [15 favorites]
And I suggest talking about your relationship to your therapist, because it sounds seriously unhealthy and must be contributing to your depression.
posted by you're a kitty! at 6:23 PM on November 5, 2009 [15 favorites]
Now my husband is saying ok, fine, we can do this, he wants me to have things that will help me. But I DON'T want to feel like I manipulated or guilt tripped him into this.
I would move forward on this, get the dog, realize that your emotions are in a messy tangle for a lot of reasons and that getting a dog will help you start untangling them, including your feelings of guilt and manipulation. From your question it sounds like you have a lot going on that could probably use some attention once you have the time and energy to approach it. I'd say having a dog will give you that time. Thank your husband if you feel that you need to and move on and forward with your dog. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 PM on November 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
I would move forward on this, get the dog, realize that your emotions are in a messy tangle for a lot of reasons and that getting a dog will help you start untangling them, including your feelings of guilt and manipulation. From your question it sounds like you have a lot going on that could probably use some attention once you have the time and energy to approach it. I'd say having a dog will give you that time. Thank your husband if you feel that you need to and move on and forward with your dog. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 PM on November 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
Please, please please discuss this with your therapist.
posted by cestmoi15 at 6:33 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by cestmoi15 at 6:33 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Get rid of your husband. Anyone who doesn't put your well-being before theirs isn't someone you should be with.
And get the dog. At least he'll love you unconditionally.
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:33 PM on November 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
And get the dog. At least he'll love you unconditionally.
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:33 PM on November 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
You have made a reasonable, sound, rational request, one that is tied to your medical and emotional needs. For whatever reason your husband is not engaging to discuss the issue, but he has not offered other solutions to help you, either. I don't see any warning signs that make me think YOU are manipulating; if anything, I think the unhealthy behavior is that of your husband. Whatever his experiences with dogs, it seems selfish to me to refuse to have a discussion with you about your legitimate needs.
I hope the service dog brings you some relief, and is healing for you.
posted by bunnycup at 6:36 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I hope the service dog brings you some relief, and is healing for you.
posted by bunnycup at 6:36 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please get the dog. It's unlikely that anyone commenting on here knows enough about you and your husband to say definitively whether your relationship is healthy or not, but you might want to take a long look at it yourself.
Again, please go ahead with getting the dog. It sounds like it would improve your quality of life immensely.
posted by kylej at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Again, please go ahead with getting the dog. It sounds like it would improve your quality of life immensely.
posted by kylej at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Get the dog. If you have another fight with the husband, give the dog away. Don't kill it.
posted by Nick Verstayne at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Nick Verstayne at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
You might also want to talk to the organization and see if you'd be able to do some charity work for them, or any organization for that matter.
Getting out of the house and helping others will probably make you feel much better and help you take your mind off your own problems.
posted by kylej at 6:42 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Getting out of the house and helping others will probably make you feel much better and help you take your mind off your own problems.
posted by kylej at 6:42 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I cannot, in good conscience, recommend that someone get a dog when they've already had three animals killed "so [they] could have this man".
Talk with your therapist about other options.
posted by GeekAnimator at 6:45 PM on November 5, 2009 [16 favorites]
Talk with your therapist about other options.
posted by GeekAnimator at 6:45 PM on November 5, 2009 [16 favorites]
What bothers me about the post is that you don't talk about what your husband is doing to support you, at all. He's the boss of the house, and the marriage, and you get eight hours of "married time" with him?
I've said it before, it is hard to advise on something like this from a post on the Internet, but with what you have said here, drop the husband, get the dog. Your husband doesn't seem to be doing much to support, comfort or be there for you; a dog may well do ou a lot of good.
posted by kellyblah at 6:47 PM on November 5, 2009
I've said it before, it is hard to advise on something like this from a post on the Internet, but with what you have said here, drop the husband, get the dog. Your husband doesn't seem to be doing much to support, comfort or be there for you; a dog may well do ou a lot of good.
posted by kellyblah at 6:47 PM on November 5, 2009
Do it! Get the dog! I bet your husband will warm up to the idea once he sees it working out well for all concerned. In the meantime, take his word for it that he really does want you to go ahead and do this thing that will help you get better. He's your hubby, it's his job to be supportive and it sounds like this will be a really good thing for you.
posted by beandip at 6:48 PM on November 5, 2009
posted by beandip at 6:48 PM on November 5, 2009
Mod note: comment removed - can we stop with the ALLCAPS and either be helpful or go someplace else? thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:50 PM on November 5, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:50 PM on November 5, 2009
Have you spoken with your husband about the dog specifically as a service animal? I've never had a dog, and I imagine that if my partner approached me about getting one, I would likely be very wary, all the more so if I'd had explicitly negative encounters with one. That said, I would approach the matter very differently if I understood the dog as a service animal and as a tool for rehabilitation.
Please don't misunderstand. I don't want to equate the dog with some kind of clinical machine; it's just that since your husband has never successfully experienced a dog as a pet or psychological service animal, perhaps he sees a dog as being a frivolous nuisance or superficial distraction, rather than as a legitimately helpful and therapeutic companion for you.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:56 PM on November 5, 2009
Please don't misunderstand. I don't want to equate the dog with some kind of clinical machine; it's just that since your husband has never successfully experienced a dog as a pet or psychological service animal, perhaps he sees a dog as being a frivolous nuisance or superficial distraction, rather than as a legitimately helpful and therapeutic companion for you.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:56 PM on November 5, 2009
You say,
"When I met this man, he told me he was allergic to cats. I had 3 at the time. I was still working then, although I was getting sicker and sicker, and could not keep up with my life. I "got rid" (i.e. had them killed at the pound) of the cats so I could have this man. It seemed fine at the time, but my resentment is growing along with my loneliness and sorrow.'
I am trying not to read between the lines, but can't. is he in fact allergic to cats? Did he just say that so you'd get rid of them? Did you feel pressured to get rid of the cats - a sort of "Me or the cats deal?"
If so then the husband hardly sounds supportive. But many husbands (or wives) who are so selfish like that would likely NOT stick around to be with a PTSD partner. Again, nobody here knows what your marriage is like, but I can envisage another scenario where the husband, who doesn't like animals and who feels a lot of guilt because wife got rid of the cats to be with him. He might have been a passive aggressive in this or not so passive aggressive or at least didn't offer to run to the allergist to get shots. So he feels he can't say no.
But he has a wife with PTSD, who by wife's own admission on some days can't get out of bed. husband who doesn't like animals can see a future where he will end up being primary caretaker for a dog he didn't want - at least until wife heals. Maybe he should do that as a good loving husband even though he doesn't like dogs. maybe he feels that getting a companion animal won't work and he'll have a depressed wife and a dog he didn't want. Then what?.
Far be it for a fat zhlub from Queens like me to disagree with Jessamyn, but you know the notion that for messy emotions "getting a dog will help you start untangling them, including your feelings of guilt and manipulation" is not good advice - and not a good reason to get a dog. There are a lot of shelters who have pets that came from people who were well meaning but couldn't take care of their dogs because they were going through some major stuff. Not fair to the animal at all. *
So the question is, what would it take for YOU not to feel manipulative? Your husband's total acceptance? He hates animals, that might not happen. Your husband's grudging acceptance? Is that enough? Your husband's willingness to try it out for a few months? A guarantee that if you still can't get out of bed, a neighbor or a friend will take care of the dog? Your husband saying, for you, babe, I'll get the dog?"
I don't know, but perhaps working backwards might help you figure this out and might also help to make the decision on whether or not to get a dog easier.
* I understand that this is a service animal from a foundation but this animal is there to provide primarily moral and emotional support. I am not pooh-poohing the role of service animals beyond the traditional seeing-eye dogs and the like. This in general sounds like a wonderful thing - but maybe just maybe not in this specific instance.
posted by xetere at 6:58 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
"When I met this man, he told me he was allergic to cats. I had 3 at the time. I was still working then, although I was getting sicker and sicker, and could not keep up with my life. I "got rid" (i.e. had them killed at the pound) of the cats so I could have this man. It seemed fine at the time, but my resentment is growing along with my loneliness and sorrow.'
I am trying not to read between the lines, but can't. is he in fact allergic to cats? Did he just say that so you'd get rid of them? Did you feel pressured to get rid of the cats - a sort of "Me or the cats deal?"
If so then the husband hardly sounds supportive. But many husbands (or wives) who are so selfish like that would likely NOT stick around to be with a PTSD partner. Again, nobody here knows what your marriage is like, but I can envisage another scenario where the husband, who doesn't like animals and who feels a lot of guilt because wife got rid of the cats to be with him. He might have been a passive aggressive in this or not so passive aggressive or at least didn't offer to run to the allergist to get shots. So he feels he can't say no.
But he has a wife with PTSD, who by wife's own admission on some days can't get out of bed. husband who doesn't like animals can see a future where he will end up being primary caretaker for a dog he didn't want - at least until wife heals. Maybe he should do that as a good loving husband even though he doesn't like dogs. maybe he feels that getting a companion animal won't work and he'll have a depressed wife and a dog he didn't want. Then what?.
Far be it for a fat zhlub from Queens like me to disagree with Jessamyn, but you know the notion that for messy emotions "getting a dog will help you start untangling them, including your feelings of guilt and manipulation" is not good advice - and not a good reason to get a dog. There are a lot of shelters who have pets that came from people who were well meaning but couldn't take care of their dogs because they were going through some major stuff. Not fair to the animal at all. *
So the question is, what would it take for YOU not to feel manipulative? Your husband's total acceptance? He hates animals, that might not happen. Your husband's grudging acceptance? Is that enough? Your husband's willingness to try it out for a few months? A guarantee that if you still can't get out of bed, a neighbor or a friend will take care of the dog? Your husband saying, for you, babe, I'll get the dog?"
I don't know, but perhaps working backwards might help you figure this out and might also help to make the decision on whether or not to get a dog easier.
* I understand that this is a service animal from a foundation but this animal is there to provide primarily moral and emotional support. I am not pooh-poohing the role of service animals beyond the traditional seeing-eye dogs and the like. This in general sounds like a wonderful thing - but maybe just maybe not in this specific instance.
posted by xetere at 6:58 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I am so angry at your husband.
HE is manipulating YOU!
Get the dog. I feel very sure that the dog will be a help to you. This is something you need for your recovery. I have a lot of experience dealing with my own depression, and I am training my dog to be a PSD. I can't tell you the amount of comfort she gives me.
It is quite possible that when your husband gets used to a well mannered, well trained dog that he will warm up to the idea. It may also be possible that your husband is kind of scared of dogs and is hiding his fear by being passive aggressive.
But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
That is scary. I may be wrong, but I think a marriage should be a partnership. Yours sounds like barely a relationship. I really think you need to talk to your therapist about that.
posted by TooFewShoes at 7:00 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
HE is manipulating YOU!
Get the dog. I feel very sure that the dog will be a help to you. This is something you need for your recovery. I have a lot of experience dealing with my own depression, and I am training my dog to be a PSD. I can't tell you the amount of comfort she gives me.
It is quite possible that when your husband gets used to a well mannered, well trained dog that he will warm up to the idea. It may also be possible that your husband is kind of scared of dogs and is hiding his fear by being passive aggressive.
But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
That is scary. I may be wrong, but I think a marriage should be a partnership. Yours sounds like barely a relationship. I really think you need to talk to your therapist about that.
posted by TooFewShoes at 7:00 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Given the history of animals in your relationship, I would strongly advise against getting the dog, for the dog's sake and for yours and your husband's, as he won't like it and you'll have to live with him not liking it.
However, the next non-animal option that comes up -- some kind of volunteer work, or classes, or more therapy, or what-have-you -- do it, without concern for your husband. Your need to take care of yourself is something you shouldn't have to apologize for, and shouldn't have to feel guilty over. If he gives you those disapproving, passive-aggressive responses, just laugh, give him the finger, and keep moving with your plans. Make him actively communicate with you if he wants to stop you, otherwise you just go ahead and don't worry about him.
posted by davejay at 7:03 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
However, the next non-animal option that comes up -- some kind of volunteer work, or classes, or more therapy, or what-have-you -- do it, without concern for your husband. Your need to take care of yourself is something you shouldn't have to apologize for, and shouldn't have to feel guilty over. If he gives you those disapproving, passive-aggressive responses, just laugh, give him the finger, and keep moving with your plans. Make him actively communicate with you if he wants to stop you, otherwise you just go ahead and don't worry about him.
posted by davejay at 7:03 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Oh, almost forgot:
But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
Completely and utterly separate from your original question, I advise you tell your therapist that this is your view of your marriage. That kind of thing is not healthy, not even one little tiny bit, whether it's coming from your own internal dialog or he's actively telling you that's the way it is.
posted by davejay at 7:04 PM on November 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
But he is the boss of the marriage and the house, and I don't want to go against his wishes....
Completely and utterly separate from your original question, I advise you tell your therapist that this is your view of your marriage. That kind of thing is not healthy, not even one little tiny bit, whether it's coming from your own internal dialog or he's actively telling you that's the way it is.
posted by davejay at 7:04 PM on November 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I REALLY tried to find homes for the cats. I asked everyone I knew, posted at my work, and posted to various online groups that worked with rehoming pets. I spent MONTHS looking and asking... 2 of them were older, and one of those two was sick (I now know what was wrong with him. Not an illnss per se, just a LOT of hairballs blocking him up). The third was "younger", and MAY have been adopted from the shelter. I had these animals for years, and really really thought about what I was doing, and why, and really tried to find other options. I did end up taking them to a local pound, and just don't know for sure what happened, but if the oldest one acted mean or too scared, or the next oldest one barfed a lot, I'm pretty sure they were set aside. I've worked at humane societies and shelters before, I'm aware of how it goes. I'm sad about it, and yes, I am concerned about what would happen if this doesn't work out. I gave up these cats over 8 years ago, keeping my snake and birds, which have been fine and acceptable to this man, and I will keep them until they die. I agree with some of you that yes, I don't 'deserve' another 'pet', which may also be part of my guilty feelings and hesitance to step forward.
Most places like this DO take the animals back. This foundation adopts out dogs who don't work out in the programs they have (They started with and still work with hearing dogs, which they get from the pound, and train. The ones that "aren't interested" are adopted to loving homes. The foundation is COMPLETELY funded by Sam Simon, who is one of the creators of the Simpsons.)
Thanks for all of your responses. I appreciate the knowledge of the hive mind.
posted by Jinx of the 2nd Law at 7:13 PM on November 5, 2009
Most places like this DO take the animals back. This foundation adopts out dogs who don't work out in the programs they have (They started with and still work with hearing dogs, which they get from the pound, and train. The ones that "aren't interested" are adopted to loving homes. The foundation is COMPLETELY funded by Sam Simon, who is one of the creators of the Simpsons.)
Thanks for all of your responses. I appreciate the knowledge of the hive mind.
posted by Jinx of the 2nd Law at 7:13 PM on November 5, 2009
Set aside the question about whether anybody is being manipulative here. We can't tell you, since we only have your side of the story. You and your husband and your therapist need to decide whether the dog is a good idea. Here are some questions you should think about to decide.
What is the dog's special training to be a "psychiatric service dog"? What does it do? Talk to your therapist and get more details about this, to better understand how the dog is supposed to help you with your recovery.
Realistically, you will have good days and bad days - who will take care of the dog when you're having a bad day? If you get the dog, you need to have a plan in place to ensure that it gets taken care of. You will need to sit down with your husband and talk this over honestly. Don't promise that you'll take care of it all the time, if that's not a realistic plan for you.
What happens if the dog isn't working out for you, for any reason? Will the charity group take it back? (Probably so; you need to get the details on this.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:17 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
What is the dog's special training to be a "psychiatric service dog"? What does it do? Talk to your therapist and get more details about this, to better understand how the dog is supposed to help you with your recovery.
Realistically, you will have good days and bad days - who will take care of the dog when you're having a bad day? If you get the dog, you need to have a plan in place to ensure that it gets taken care of. You will need to sit down with your husband and talk this over honestly. Don't promise that you'll take care of it all the time, if that's not a realistic plan for you.
What happens if the dog isn't working out for you, for any reason? Will the charity group take it back? (Probably so; you need to get the details on this.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:17 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
To those concerned about the dog in light of the OP having euthanised three cats in the past: This dog is coming from a service dog agency. If, for whatever reason, the dog cannot stay with the OP, the agency will probably be more than willing to take it back. Then they'd be able to provide someone else with a service dog without waiting for another one to complete its fostering and training. This would not be a matter of "I have no option but dropping it off at the pound."
His ex had rescued a dog, but never trained it, much less neutered it. I get the feeling he really disliked this animal. This was his only exposure to dogs.
Have you explained to him how a service dog would be a completely different experience than some half-wild dog? If his reticence is based on that experience, that conversation may help.
posted by CKmtl at 7:21 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
His ex had rescued a dog, but never trained it, much less neutered it. I get the feeling he really disliked this animal. This was his only exposure to dogs.
Have you explained to him how a service dog would be a completely different experience than some half-wild dog? If his reticence is based on that experience, that conversation may help.
posted by CKmtl at 7:21 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Just trying to see this from your husband's perspective: you're unwell -- unable to get out of bed sometimes -- and I wonder whether a lot of household responsibilities fall on him, in addition to working full-time. If you don't leave the house, does that mean he does all the grocery shopping and other errands? Clean the house, do the laundry, when you're ill in bed? Not that that isn't what spouses should do for one another when one spouse is ill, but I can't imagine it's easy, either.
His fear could be that you say you're going to take care of the dog, but that your illness may overtake you, and this may end up being a new addition to his responsibilities.
posted by palliser at 7:26 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
His fear could be that you say you're going to take care of the dog, but that your illness may overtake you, and this may end up being a new addition to his responsibilities.
posted by palliser at 7:26 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Look, marriages shake down in various ways and he may well be the boss of the house and the marriage, but you are the boss of you. You are an adult and he is your husband, not your mother.
Don't worry about the sighing and dramatics. He is manipulating you with his theatrics; you merely asked a question and got an an answer. There's nothing to feel guilty about. You have agreement that you can proceed, so do it.
Get the dog.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:26 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Don't worry about the sighing and dramatics. He is manipulating you with his theatrics; you merely asked a question and got an an answer. There's nothing to feel guilty about. You have agreement that you can proceed, so do it.
Get the dog.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:26 PM on November 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
My dog is not a trained therapy dog or anything, but it often feels like she is! I just feel so happy when I'm around her. A trained service dog sounds like it could be a wonderful addition to your life. And two Mefites who I respect, Jessamyn and bunnycup agree with me, so I say go for it! You need someone in your life who unconditionally supports you.
posted by radioamy at 7:27 PM on November 5, 2009
posted by radioamy at 7:27 PM on November 5, 2009
First, I'm sorry you have PTSD. I understand. We have 4 (soon to be 3) animals in our house and they definately help!
Second, I'm also sorry you had to lose your beloved cats the first time .Animals can be amazing with their unconditional love. We are coming to the hard decision of giving up a Siamese of ours. I don't wish it on anyone (no kill shelter or a 100% guarantee from someone we trust).
Third, the idea that someone is the boss of anything in a relationship means that it's messsssssed up. Seek marriage therapy and encourage the therapist to have him seek alone therapy. He's got issues more serious than you. Trust me!!!
Fourth, it's going to be difficult gaining any comment that isn't pro animal when you are married to someone who is so anti-animal and obviously anti your feelings/well being/progression of health
Fifth, please be careful like the others said of the welfare of this dog if you husband decides to push you into getting rid of it. You need a "buyback" guarantee. We have a wonderful, beautiful border collie and she came with a buyback (first choice if we wanted to get rid of her, which will NEVER HAPPEN). It was a nice peace of mind and since we're "one of those" people who treat their animals like kids (even though we have a baby), we feel good that god forbid something should happen to us, at least we know where she can go for "custody".
Finally, your husband. I know everyone saying he's an asshole (because honestly, the way you described him, he is one) isn't helping but seriously, your PTSD and other issues may greatly improve WITH a dog and a life WITHOUT your husband. I'm sure you're wonderful and anyone would be lucky to have you. Never let your personal bumps tell you differently. It sounds like your husband has a few "bumps" himself.
Good luck and many hugs!!!
posted by stormpooper at 7:28 PM on November 5, 2009
Second, I'm also sorry you had to lose your beloved cats the first time .Animals can be amazing with their unconditional love. We are coming to the hard decision of giving up a Siamese of ours. I don't wish it on anyone (no kill shelter or a 100% guarantee from someone we trust).
Third, the idea that someone is the boss of anything in a relationship means that it's messsssssed up. Seek marriage therapy and encourage the therapist to have him seek alone therapy. He's got issues more serious than you. Trust me!!!
Fourth, it's going to be difficult gaining any comment that isn't pro animal when you are married to someone who is so anti-animal and obviously anti your feelings/well being/progression of health
Fifth, please be careful like the others said of the welfare of this dog if you husband decides to push you into getting rid of it. You need a "buyback" guarantee. We have a wonderful, beautiful border collie and she came with a buyback (first choice if we wanted to get rid of her, which will NEVER HAPPEN). It was a nice peace of mind and since we're "one of those" people who treat their animals like kids (even though we have a baby), we feel good that god forbid something should happen to us, at least we know where she can go for "custody".
Finally, your husband. I know everyone saying he's an asshole (because honestly, the way you described him, he is one) isn't helping but seriously, your PTSD and other issues may greatly improve WITH a dog and a life WITHOUT your husband. I'm sure you're wonderful and anyone would be lucky to have you. Never let your personal bumps tell you differently. It sounds like your husband has a few "bumps" himself.
Good luck and many hugs!!!
posted by stormpooper at 7:28 PM on November 5, 2009
I think some people may be getting caught up in the language you're using to describe the situation. You fell in love with someone who is allergic to cats, and so you looked for new homes for your cats, couldn't find any, and ultimately sent them to an animal shelter that was not an explicitly no-kill shelter. They may have been adopted, but you don't know and fear the worst. I understand your guilt over that, but I don't think any of us here need to be saying that that's how you "should" feel or that you don't "deserve" a service animal.
A service animal is different from a pet. If your question was "I really want a dog but my husband doesn't. Should I get one?" the appropriate answer would be no. However, if you are suffering from PTSD and believe that taking advantage of the opportunity to get a service animal would help you to get well and feel healthy and happy, that's a much different question.
Is your husband in therapy on his own, or does he ever attend a session with you? He should find some kind of support for himself as he helps you to manage your illness AND he should be learning more and better ways to support you. It doesn't sound as if he is doing either, so that's something to discuss (with your therapist and with him) before you bring a service animal home. Moreover, it should be made crystal clear to him that the service animal is not a pet you're getting because you value your fun and enjoyment over his happiness, but rather a part of the ongoing therapy you need in order to be well. Perhaps someone from the organization that places these dogs could sit down with the two of you and talk about that aspect of it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:39 PM on November 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
A service animal is different from a pet. If your question was "I really want a dog but my husband doesn't. Should I get one?" the appropriate answer would be no. However, if you are suffering from PTSD and believe that taking advantage of the opportunity to get a service animal would help you to get well and feel healthy and happy, that's a much different question.
Is your husband in therapy on his own, or does he ever attend a session with you? He should find some kind of support for himself as he helps you to manage your illness AND he should be learning more and better ways to support you. It doesn't sound as if he is doing either, so that's something to discuss (with your therapist and with him) before you bring a service animal home. Moreover, it should be made crystal clear to him that the service animal is not a pet you're getting because you value your fun and enjoyment over his happiness, but rather a part of the ongoing therapy you need in order to be well. Perhaps someone from the organization that places these dogs could sit down with the two of you and talk about that aspect of it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:39 PM on November 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
It kind of sounds like you unintentionally called him out on his passive aggressive behavior and at some level he realizes this and what he has been doing and so acquiesced. Ideally he should be involved with the process of obtaining the service animal, and that may alleviate some of his ill defined fears. I am not going to jump in with the "get a different husband" crowd as there are too many variables we don't and can't know at this level. But, and this is important, PTSD takes a toll on everyone involved. You are making an effort to overcome this, and should never feel guilty about needing and asking for help, but your husband needs some type of therapeutic outlet as well. Under the right circumstances the dog may help both of you in many ways.
good luck with your struggles, I wish you well
posted by edgeways at 7:58 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
good luck with your struggles, I wish you well
posted by edgeways at 7:58 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's almost definitely offensive to do this but let me frame this one way: judging by Sam Simon's website, their program is based on finding dogs at shelters that are of a certain age and temperment, going through a (quite likely very long) training program with them, and placing their graduates into homes that are mutually beneficial for the humans in need and the dog.
I've been privvy to several adoptions fromrescue organizations that were not near as selective with which dogs they take in or doing near that amount of rehabilitation or training, and many will still require a home visit, recommendations from a veterinarian and several other references, and interviews with other family members. Given the information that you've provided here, I can safely bet dollars to dog biscuits that there's no way you'd qualify for a therapy dog from this or any other foundation.
If I'm a dick for saying that, so be it, but these are well-trained animals that people have put countless hours in with. They're going to be very selective to whom they transfer ownership. Best of luck with your therapy and your situation.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:08 PM on November 5, 2009
I've been privvy to several adoptions fromrescue organizations that were not near as selective with which dogs they take in or doing near that amount of rehabilitation or training, and many will still require a home visit, recommendations from a veterinarian and several other references, and interviews with other family members. Given the information that you've provided here, I can safely bet dollars to dog biscuits that there's no way you'd qualify for a therapy dog from this or any other foundation.
If I'm a dick for saying that, so be it, but these are well-trained animals that people have put countless hours in with. They're going to be very selective to whom they transfer ownership. Best of luck with your therapy and your situation.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:08 PM on November 5, 2009
"Whenever I've asked you about getting a dog, you say you'd like to talk about it 'later.' I'd like to talk about it soon, so can you figure out when a good 'later' is for you and let me know?"
posted by rhizome at 8:54 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 8:54 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
My husband was also extremely reticent about getting a dog... and I also didn't want to guilt or maneuver him into doing it, yet, in a way, I guess I did. I feel like it was probably not a situation that could ever be so clear-cut as "he ended up agreeing fully and truly with absolutely no emotional coercion of any kind" because his default position was that he didn't want one, and anything that changed that stance was persuasion or even guilt of some kind.
I told him that I didn't want an automatic "no," from him, that it was very important to me, and I wanted him to just fully consider before he dismissed the idea... and that if he still was honestly against it, I wouldn't be angry and I wouldn't bring it up again. Okay, he said "yes."
Obviously, it could have turned out badly (although, because I know him, I thought the chances of this were extremely slight) - but it didn't. He thanks me, all the time. Our dog adores him with all the passion of her little doggy heart, and he feels exactly the same way. So this is one story that turned out great; obviously, there are others that will be the opposite. Your husband's dog experience with his ex sounds like one of those stories, so I can't blame him for being fearful.
If you do get the dog (and I think you probably should), just keep it a high priority to try to integrate as a threesome. Since, like you, I was the one primarily responsible for the dog - the one who feeds her and looks after her needs, I made sure that her interactions with my husband were special. Even though I prepare the food, I got him to give it to her often, so I wasn't seen as THE food provider. I wouldn't give her treats when cooking or whatever, but he could. When we went walking together, he put on and held the leash (because I walk her all the time, when he's home he gets to "drive," as we say - and walkies are her OMGFAVORITETHING). When giving her super high-value treats as rewards, I got him to do it whenever he was home (if he was involved in the practice - otherwise, too confusing) and I made sure she recognized basic commands from him as well as me, so if I trained her to "sit" or whatever, he would come in on the practice once she understood what we were doing, so there wouldn't be a weird thing of her only obeying commands from one person.
Long story short, I wanted to help create a special intimacy between them, since I was the "mom" or pack leader and with her all the time. The thing I really, really didn't want was any suspicion, jealousy, or fearfulness from her related to him. I felt that this was one of my most important goals in creating a happy atmosphere for all of us. Soon they had their own little intimate rituals and special interactions and play that came about organically, I no longer need to orchestrate anything between them, and we all settled very happily into our roles. She's not only made my life better, but his, as well - and I know we've made her life better. Win, Win, Win.
Since you've had and trained dogs before, you have a head start on grokking this sort of thing, I know. So, if you go forward, put any harsh feelings behind you, and definitely don't think of your new pet as My dog, but Our dog, even though you'll be the care provider, put special effort into making that happen in a calm way, and with a little luck, your husband will be thanking you for bringing that special love and joy into your home.
Good luck!
posted by taz at 11:00 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I told him that I didn't want an automatic "no," from him, that it was very important to me, and I wanted him to just fully consider before he dismissed the idea... and that if he still was honestly against it, I wouldn't be angry and I wouldn't bring it up again. Okay, he said "yes."
Obviously, it could have turned out badly (although, because I know him, I thought the chances of this were extremely slight) - but it didn't. He thanks me, all the time. Our dog adores him with all the passion of her little doggy heart, and he feels exactly the same way. So this is one story that turned out great; obviously, there are others that will be the opposite. Your husband's dog experience with his ex sounds like one of those stories, so I can't blame him for being fearful.
If you do get the dog (and I think you probably should), just keep it a high priority to try to integrate as a threesome. Since, like you, I was the one primarily responsible for the dog - the one who feeds her and looks after her needs, I made sure that her interactions with my husband were special. Even though I prepare the food, I got him to give it to her often, so I wasn't seen as THE food provider. I wouldn't give her treats when cooking or whatever, but he could. When we went walking together, he put on and held the leash (because I walk her all the time, when he's home he gets to "drive," as we say - and walkies are her OMGFAVORITETHING). When giving her super high-value treats as rewards, I got him to do it whenever he was home (if he was involved in the practice - otherwise, too confusing) and I made sure she recognized basic commands from him as well as me, so if I trained her to "sit" or whatever, he would come in on the practice once she understood what we were doing, so there wouldn't be a weird thing of her only obeying commands from one person.
Long story short, I wanted to help create a special intimacy between them, since I was the "mom" or pack leader and with her all the time. The thing I really, really didn't want was any suspicion, jealousy, or fearfulness from her related to him. I felt that this was one of my most important goals in creating a happy atmosphere for all of us. Soon they had their own little intimate rituals and special interactions and play that came about organically, I no longer need to orchestrate anything between them, and we all settled very happily into our roles. She's not only made my life better, but his, as well - and I know we've made her life better. Win, Win, Win.
Since you've had and trained dogs before, you have a head start on grokking this sort of thing, I know. So, if you go forward, put any harsh feelings behind you, and definitely don't think of your new pet as My dog, but Our dog, even though you'll be the care provider, put special effort into making that happen in a calm way, and with a little luck, your husband will be thanking you for bringing that special love and joy into your home.
Good luck!
posted by taz at 11:00 PM on November 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
"[...] Given the information that you've provided here, I can safely bet dollars to dog biscuits that there's no way you'd qualify for a therapy dog from this or any other foundation.
If I'm a dick for saying that, so be it, but these are well-trained animals that people have put countless hours in with. They're going to be very selective to whom they transfer ownership. Best of luck with your therapy and your situation.
Yes, having invested all that effort in selecting and training dogs to help provide a companion to people with emotional problems they wouldn't actually want to put such a big investment at risk by actually, you know, placing the dogs with people with emotional problems.
I suspect you are wrong. I suspect that if an organization that specializes in rescuing dogs and training them as service animals is entertaining applications from people with PTSD, then they probably going to realize that those people can't provide a perfect home, at least at first, because if they could, they probably wouldn't be applying for a therapy dog.
posted by Good Brain at 11:24 PM on November 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
If I'm a dick for saying that, so be it, but these are well-trained animals that people have put countless hours in with. They're going to be very selective to whom they transfer ownership. Best of luck with your therapy and your situation.
Yes, having invested all that effort in selecting and training dogs to help provide a companion to people with emotional problems they wouldn't actually want to put such a big investment at risk by actually, you know, placing the dogs with people with emotional problems.
I suspect you are wrong. I suspect that if an organization that specializes in rescuing dogs and training them as service animals is entertaining applications from people with PTSD, then they probably going to realize that those people can't provide a perfect home, at least at first, because if they could, they probably wouldn't be applying for a therapy dog.
posted by Good Brain at 11:24 PM on November 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I don't think you should get a dog. I think your man should be in a better position to be providing you the care and understanding you need. That's what partners are for btw.
posted by watercarrier at 1:32 AM on November 6, 2009
posted by watercarrier at 1:32 AM on November 6, 2009
Thank you for your service.
Please ignore the folks criticising the power dynamic in your marriage in a vacuum, unless YOU have a problem with it then it isn't a problem. If it's a problem, then yes, take the advice here and bring it up with the therapist. (thousands of people live like this folks, seriously is it 1953 in here?)
Have you told your husband that you are feeling manipulative and want help getting over that? Where are the roots of tht coming from? You need to feel validated about your emotions and reasons for getting this service dog, to start. Then you need to feel confident about the future - i.e. that you've assuaged your husband's wprries about the care of the dog - write a list of all the potential problems ie dog care, dog related entropy, and develop a structure for how you are going to deal with the problems. Get therapist and the dog's association to help you and your husband with this, they shoud help as the work of caring for the dog is part of the dog's therapeutic value.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:07 AM on November 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please ignore the folks criticising the power dynamic in your marriage in a vacuum, unless YOU have a problem with it then it isn't a problem. If it's a problem, then yes, take the advice here and bring it up with the therapist. (thousands of people live like this folks, seriously is it 1953 in here?)
Have you told your husband that you are feeling manipulative and want help getting over that? Where are the roots of tht coming from? You need to feel validated about your emotions and reasons for getting this service dog, to start. Then you need to feel confident about the future - i.e. that you've assuaged your husband's wprries about the care of the dog - write a list of all the potential problems ie dog care, dog related entropy, and develop a structure for how you are going to deal with the problems. Get therapist and the dog's association to help you and your husband with this, they shoud help as the work of caring for the dog is part of the dog's therapeutic value.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:07 AM on November 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Another way to go about keeping busy during the day regardless of what you decide with the dog, might be to look into finding a hobby that has a strong online presence and community. Projects are awesome for feeling like you have agency and motivation, especially ones that you can share with others. And thanks to the internet you don't necessarily have to deal with the anxiety of leaving the house that you mentioned.
posted by edbles at 6:06 AM on November 6, 2009
posted by edbles at 6:06 AM on November 6, 2009
Please ignore the folks criticising the power dynamic in your marriage in a vacuum, unless YOU have a problem with it then it isn't a problem. If it's a problem, then yes, take the advice here and bring it up with the therapist.
I don't think it's just the unequal power dynamic (although that's obviously going to trouble most people here since it isn't 1953), but the fact that the person "in charge" uses his power in a way that is harmful to the subordinate member of the relationship. He wouldn't even discuss it with her and she was left having to read his mind (later means no). My understanding of this kind of power dynamic is from conservative Christianity, where the husband is the head of the houseshold. That is understood to be a heavy responsibility that includes taking care of your subordinate family members. The husband here won't even talk to her about a treatment option that could help her tremendously.
I suspect you are wrong. I suspect that if an organization that specializes in rescuing dogs and training them as service animals is entertaining applications from people with PTSD, then they probably going to realize that those people can't provide a perfect home, at least at first, because if they could, they probably wouldn't be applying for a therapy dog.
I think the concern goes beyond the lack of a perfect home. She has surrendered three animals to a shelter because her husband couldn't have them. Now she wants to get a fourth animal and it's really unclear if her husband is on board. If I were the organization, I would be terribly concerned about what could happen down the road if the person "in charge" decides his household won't include a dog after all. If this were a partnership, it wouldn't be so troubling from an animal welfare perspective, but if he can make unilateral decisions in this relationship (which is what it sounds like), then the animal is in a precarious position in this house.
posted by Mavri at 8:20 AM on November 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't think it's just the unequal power dynamic (although that's obviously going to trouble most people here since it isn't 1953), but the fact that the person "in charge" uses his power in a way that is harmful to the subordinate member of the relationship. He wouldn't even discuss it with her and she was left having to read his mind (later means no). My understanding of this kind of power dynamic is from conservative Christianity, where the husband is the head of the houseshold. That is understood to be a heavy responsibility that includes taking care of your subordinate family members. The husband here won't even talk to her about a treatment option that could help her tremendously.
I suspect you are wrong. I suspect that if an organization that specializes in rescuing dogs and training them as service animals is entertaining applications from people with PTSD, then they probably going to realize that those people can't provide a perfect home, at least at first, because if they could, they probably wouldn't be applying for a therapy dog.
I think the concern goes beyond the lack of a perfect home. She has surrendered three animals to a shelter because her husband couldn't have them. Now she wants to get a fourth animal and it's really unclear if her husband is on board. If I were the organization, I would be terribly concerned about what could happen down the road if the person "in charge" decides his household won't include a dog after all. If this were a partnership, it wouldn't be so troubling from an animal welfare perspective, but if he can make unilateral decisions in this relationship (which is what it sounds like), then the animal is in a precarious position in this house.
posted by Mavri at 8:20 AM on November 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
Oh my god, get the dog! I want one thing in life right now and its a dog. I can't even begin to describe how it would improve my life (I've had dogs before) and I'm just a little lonely, not a PSTD stricken veteran like yourself. Your husband's motivation for being against the dog is unknown - it could be that he had a bad dog experience (in which case a good dog experience would change his mind) or it could be that he is manipulative. If his hesitation is simply caused by the ex girlfriend bad dog experience, then the good dog experience with you and seeing your condition improve should be enough to make him forget he resisted in the first place.
But, if he is trying to manipulate you, if he tries to make you give away this dog like you did your cats, please please please keep the dog and dump the man. He isn't worth it if it turns this way.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:11 PM on November 6, 2009
But, if he is trying to manipulate you, if he tries to make you give away this dog like you did your cats, please please please keep the dog and dump the man. He isn't worth it if it turns this way.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:11 PM on November 6, 2009
I can't speak to whether or not you should get a dog, but people worrying about what will happen to the dog shouldn't. As far as I know, all service dog organizations require that the dog be returned to them if there is a reason it can't stay in the home. Surrendering it to a shelter or giving it away is not an option, and you normally have to sign legal paperwork to that effect.
Service dogs of this nature do seem to be very beneficial for some PTSD sufferers.
posted by biscotti at 8:12 PM on November 6, 2009
Service dogs of this nature do seem to be very beneficial for some PTSD sufferers.
posted by biscotti at 8:12 PM on November 6, 2009
Just wanted to clarify for some of the other responders that service dogs are not simply companion animals or emotional support. By definition, they have been trained to perform specific tasks for their owner. For example, if she panicked by the thought that there might be dangerous people lurking in the empty house when she comes home, the dog can be trained to enter the house, do a search, bark if he finds someone or return and give an "all clear" signal. Similarly, if she has trouble in crowds, the dog can learn to circle her in a way that encourages people to step back and give her space.
For OP, I think this dog might truly change your life for the better - allowing you feel safe going out by yourself (or rather with the dog to support you). With luck, support and hard work, you may gradually find yourself on the other side of this without the constant, heavy burden of PTSD and depression. At that point, you will be stronger, more capable and more confident. This will change your marriage (if you change, then by definition the relationship has to change). At that time, you will be better able to evaluate if you are better off with him or without him.
posted by metahawk at 9:55 PM on November 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
For OP, I think this dog might truly change your life for the better - allowing you feel safe going out by yourself (or rather with the dog to support you). With luck, support and hard work, you may gradually find yourself on the other side of this without the constant, heavy burden of PTSD and depression. At that point, you will be stronger, more capable and more confident. This will change your marriage (if you change, then by definition the relationship has to change). At that time, you will be better able to evaluate if you are better off with him or without him.
posted by metahawk at 9:55 PM on November 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by meerkatty at 6:17 PM on November 5, 2009 [1 favorite]