Is it ok to call out skinny girls for calling themselves fat?

November 4, 2009 10:00 AM

Should I recognize that all women have body image issues, or do I have a point in feeling annoyed that someone a lot smaller than me is describing herself as "curvy"?

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and she mentioned something about having to come to terms with the fact that she was "curvy". By curvy, she meant (her words) that she occupied an awkward space where she wasn't fat and she wasn't skinny - a weird middle ground of not belonging. While is indeed very shapely, she's actually quite petite, has a very small waist, and I suspect that at least 90% of people asked would describe her as thin.

I, on the other hand, am 5'8 and 185lbs (when I tell people this, they usually make a face and say 'That can't be right'), and well-proportioned but nevertheless substantial figure. I was a fat kid in elementary school, and have my whole life probably been at least 10lbs overweight. While I'm quite comfortable with my body, I do struggle with body image, and all the negative feelings that come with being a big girl.

My immediate (reflexive) reaction to her statement was, "You're not curvy," to which she took offense. She does work in an industry where body image comes into play in a way that it never has for me, and I realize that I shouldn't discount someone's insecurities because of my own anxiety. Women, whether size 0 or 24, all experience discomfort with their bodies at times.

At the same time, I can't help but feel that she really doesn't occupy the space between fat and thin, whereas I have for my whole life. I feel by identifying as such, she a) has some unrealistic ideas about her body, and b) is attaching herself to an identity she hasn't really experienced.

So tell me, am I just being insecure and competitive unnecessarily, or do I have a point? I'm not saying that she doesn't have reason to have her own insecurities, and I'm not trying to be part of an exclusive club, but I feel a bit like she doesn't really know what she's talking about. Even if I'm out of line, I'd love to hear from women who react the same way as I did.

posted by anonymous to clothing, beauty, & fashion (81 comments total)

You will go crazy in this word if you put too much energy into what people call themselves. This is how she sees herself and you have no control over that. Arguing with someone about something so personal will only lose you friends.

Disagree internally and move on. Life is short.
posted by Alison at 10:04 AM on November 4, 2009 [11 favorites]

Yes, everyone has body issues. Men, too! She's not thinking about how you feel about your weight. She's not thinking about anybody else's size, really. Just her own, and she feels that she's curvy. Maybe she is for her height! You're 5'8, so your weight is distributed a little differently.
posted by katillathehun at 10:06 AM on November 4, 2009

am I just being insecure and competitive unnecessarily, or do I have a point?

You have a point. That said, you can have a point and keep that point to yourself which is my suggestion of what you should do.

I had a friend for a long time who was constantly blablabla talking about how she gained or lost a pound and now she was tipping the scales at 116 or whatever. Meanwhile I was the same height as her and maybe 30-40 pounds more. I found her whining pretty annoying in the same way you did with your friend.

That said, there was nothing, absolutely nothing, that could be gained from me being like "are you listening to yourself??" because clearly she had some sort of issue that made this not only a germane topic of conversation for her, but also for some reason worth talking to me about which I found pretty clueless. So, I stopped talking to her about it, gave the briefest of nods when she brought it up yet again and tried to spend less time with her eating meals or being in situations where it would come up.

If you're comfortable with your body, don't put yourself in a position where you are knowingly making someone uncomfortable about theirs. You may not have known that this is what would happen when you gave your friend an honest assessment of her statement about herself, but you do now.
posted by jessamyn at 10:06 AM on November 4, 2009 [9 favorites]

I try to respect people's desire to call themselves what they want to call themselves, even when I don't think those labels are entirely accurate.
posted by box at 10:06 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

Cut her some slack. It's very hard to dress a short and/or petite frame when you have boobs and hips. You often have to go up a size or several. 90% of my shirts make me look like an apple shape, which I'm not. It's a pain to get everything tailored, and expensive, too. Yes, most women have their own body issues. Let it go.
posted by peep at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]

Curvy is a strange word. Some people think it means "having boobs" or "having hips". She may feel awkward about her body just for having those two things. Especially in the environment you describe for her.

I know how you feel though, and I've had that "No you're not, you don't know what you're talking about." reaction and I know it's annoying. I used to have a friend who used to complain about her body because she had a big butt, and I would go "But you have a flat stomach! What more could you want!" But of course she didn't want to hear that, understandably.

I just try to remember that if she says she feels awkward then she probably does, and we should be commiserating instead of trying to argue otherwise.
posted by amethysts at 10:09 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I, on the other hand, am 5'8 and 185lbs (when I tell people this, they usually make a face and say 'That can't be right')

Haha yeah, I used to be the same size as you, and I had this experience all the time. Now that I'm 20 pounds heavier at least people authentically recognize that I'm fat!

But really, aren't you doing the exact same thing to your friend? It's really frustrating to open yourself up to someone and have them deny your experience or you authenticity. Although she may have a thin waist, the fact that she's short and (it sounds like) has boobs and an ass will give her a unique set of problems that a taller, fatter woman like me wouldn't have to deal with. Michelle over at The Pretty Year has a unique perspective on having an hourglass shape, and it's really opened my eyes to the fact that all kinds of female bodies are objectified, judged, and discriminated against.
posted by muddgirl at 10:09 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]

Yes, you have the right to be annoyed for anyone for whatever reason. Why, then, are you denying your friend's right to be annoyed with you for disagreeing with her over the use of an arbitrary term?

What exactly is your question?

Also, when did people start assuming that curvy means overweight? To me, it describes a female body with attractive proportions, i.e. a thin waist and all the other parts in the right places. If your friend feels the same way, she probably took offense because you basically told her "You are not attractive."
posted by halogen at 10:11 AM on November 4, 2009 [5 favorites]

She didn't call herself fat. She called herself curvy. Most women, regardless of their dress size, have some curves. If that's the way she likes to think of herself, more power to her. If she says it again, I'd say something like, "yes, you are, and that's awesome, and you're beautiful."

There's lots of literature out there about body shape and size. I'd be happy to recommend some to you or point you towards sources if you're interested.
posted by decathecting at 10:12 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]

Okay she isn't calling herself fat. She is calling herself curvy, which she is because she has curves. Yes it's annoying to you and yes she's talking about her body image and maybe she isn't secure with it. But if the question is if she can call herself curvy, well she certainly can because she is curvy (though maybe short and smaller than you). Which is what this question at first seems to be asking.
posted by lucy.jakobs at 10:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

So tell me, am I just being insecure and competitive unnecessarily, or do I have a point?

Both. She may be wrong/weird/annoying, but this is one of those situations where there's probably nothing to gain from discussing it with her.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2009

Not all women have body image issues. I don't, and never have. But that's irrelevant, because you don't care about all women, you care about this woman, and she maybe does. Regardless, what exactly are you trying to gain here? Do you want to call her out because... she made you feel bad? Because you think she's objectively wrong and you need to correct her? Because you think 1 word of "nuh-uh" will help her get over her body image issues?

Assuming she works in the fashion industry: The fashion industry has a tendency of describing anyone above a sample size as too big, and if you are above sample sizes but below being regarded as "plus-size", then, sort of definitionally, for her life, she DOES occupy the space between fat and thin.

But basically, get over how other women feel about their bodies and focus on how you feel about yours.
posted by brainmouse at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

She does work in an industry where body image comes into play in a way that it never has for me... [She] is attaching herself to an identity she hasn't really experienced...

Yes, she has experienced this identity, just not in the exact same way you've experienced it. I think you're being overly harsh towards her. Why does it have to be a competition to see who feels worse about themselves, especially between friends?

Even if I'm out of line, I'd love to hear from women who react the same way as I did.

And would validation from strangers really make you feel better even if you had hurt your friend's feelings?
posted by Thin Lizzy at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]

The word she used to describe herself triggered your own body issues, and you became resentful of her co-opting a word that you don't think applies to her. You already know this; you said as much in your post.

My immediate (reflexive) reaction to her statement was, "You're not curvy," to which she took offense.

Of course she did, as would you. You don't own the rights to body issues. I almost get a sense that you feel that you deserve to be resentful, because she didn't have to deal with being overweight and you did. Get right over that.
posted by iconomy at 10:15 AM on November 4, 2009 [6 favorites]

Agree with Alison. Also -- I think this area in particular -- women and bodies and size -- is not really susceptible to rational review by you, her, or those of us reading. There are people who will read your height and weight and will declare with certainty that you are large or that you are small. Everyone has a different measuring tool. Maybe she compares herself to women in magazines.

That said, I do think it's annoying/not great when women voice their body insecurities beyond their therapist's office because it almost always creates unintended consequences, such as making someone else feel stressed out or irritated (e.g. someone bigger, or someone trying to avoid bad-society-views, or whomever), or giving extra power to society's toxic yuckiness. I usually try to change the topic very quickly.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:16 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

If she's shapely, even if she's thin, then yeah, she's curvy. Curvy isn't some code word for "fat", even though a lot of people use it for that. They don't make clothes for petite curvy women, and she probably sees her self as "in between" because of that.

I don't think she is having "body image issues", and maybe you are projecting them onto other people.
posted by shownomercy at 10:16 AM on November 4, 2009 [7 favorites]

I don't doubt for a second that she has body issues--and that's speaking as someone who is quite a bit larger than you are who could say the same thing about you that you're saying about her. In this day in age where a size 8 is considered plus sized many, many women go through their own body image issues.

I've personally been many different sizes in my life, but regardless of how fat or thin I was, I rarely felt like my body was ever "right". By telling her "you're not curvy" you are unnecessarily invalidating her experience in the world. Why would you do that? Her issues do not in any way take away from your experience. How fat does she have to be to qualify to have a fat identity? Some would say that you aren't really fat enough to really know what it's like to be fat. (I certainly wouldn't say that, but I can easily see some members of the fat community being offended or at least dismissive about you identifying as fat).

My point is that fat identity is a perception not a measurement. She may not seem fat or "curvy" to you, but she has certainly had experiences that have culminating with her identifying herself that way. It's not your job to be the fat police here.
posted by Kimberly at 10:18 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

Should I recognize that all women have body image issues...

Not all women have body issues. Many are quite comfortable with their size.

And I did read how you said she defines "curvy," but some people mean this as going in and out in various places, a proportion type thing. Some people mean curvy to be fat. Some people mean it to be an adjective for attractive/sexy. My point, I can seldom think of a time when disagreeing with someone's self-assessment will gain you anything, unless they are looking for external validation (and even this gets tiresome).

I'd let it go.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:18 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I think there's a general culture of self-denigration among women that leaves many people, as it left you, vying for the bottom rung of victimhood. Don't give into that, please.

And, she didn't call herself fat. Curvy means curvy. You yourself describe her as "very shapely...quite petite...very small waist." None of these rules out curvy to me, and "very shapely" seems to be just another way of saying curvy. You can be petite and curvy and thin or chubby or average.

I don't think every woman has body issues, but I also completely get the feeling of being statistically average but not feeling like yourself. "A weird middle ground of not belonging" describes very well my post-partum feelings about my body: totally normal and average but not what I'm used to or think of as being Me. There are parts of me where I'm unaccustomed to there being parts of me.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:19 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]

My immediate (reflexive) reaction to her statement was, "You're not curvy," to which she took offense. She does work in an industry where body image comes into play in a way that it never has for me, and I realize that I shouldn't discount someone's insecurities because of my own anxiety. Women, whether size 0 or 24, all experience discomfort with their bodies at times.

I find it difficult to navigate these conversations because some women genuinely have warped bodily images, and correcting them results in ridiculous circular arguments over how awful they feel about their appearance, and because some women will say these things because they want reassurance that they are not, in fact, fat. I'm pretty much never comfortable taking part in either conversation, and so do my best not to. Remind yourself that it's not an oppression Olympics, and her experience of her body has no impact on your experience of your body.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:20 AM on November 4, 2009

And, she didn't call herself fat. Curvy means curvy.

Curvy does not always mean curvy- plenty of people (and magazines and companies) use curvy to mean fat. Just another reason it's a good idea to not challenge what other people call themselves- a lot of the terms people use mean different things to different people.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:23 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

It doesn't matter if "all" women have body issues, because even one woman believing she's not good enough because her body doesn't look this or that way is too many women feeling that way. Too many do feel that way, and too many women waste way too much of their lives hating themselves. "Calling her out" is not going to help her, or help you, feel any better about yourselves. So why bother?
posted by so_gracefully at 10:23 AM on November 4, 2009

To me, curvy = shapely. I'm not sure how I feel about curvy now being code for "having a few extra pounds", because the definition of curvy is to have curves...and you don't necessarily have to be carrying extra pounds in order to have them. That being said, I think that precisely because most of us have body issues, that kind of conversation is bound to end up with at least one participant getting their body-issue buttons pushed. This is why I don't talk about mine and try not to indulge conversations about others' when they come up.

And on preview, I have to agree with halogen's assessment. The small print is pretty much what first came to mind when I read your question. When I describe myself as curvy it's because my body shape has curves, and sometimes it is hard to find clothes that accomodate a surface that has, um, ups and downs and ins and outs (that probably sounds weird, sorry). On top of that I'm on the short side, which is an added challenge, clothes-wise. In any case, I think a body shape with curves is attractive and it's possible your friend does too.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:24 AM on November 4, 2009

The problem is that "curvy" is a very subjective word. To some people it's a euphemism for being overweight, but for others it describes a person with boobs and hips, and not a straight up-and-down fashion-model figure.

It's hard to judge your reaction without a more detailed description of your friend's proportions. I know I've irritated a few people by saying I need to lose a few pounds, because while overall I'm a small person, my weight is creeping up into the overweight range for my frame. They look at me and figure since I'm still a smaller size than they are, I shouldn't say anything, but the fact is that for me my size is larger than it should be. You say your friend is petite...it could be the same case with her. She could be comparing herself to an ideal that is right for her height/frame...in which case it has nothing to do with you and it is a bit insensitive of you to dismiss her concerns just because they're not the same as yours.

(On the other hand, there are always those girls who are ridiculously tiny but complain about the littlest bit of extra flesh as a way to get other people to stroke their egos and tell them how tiny and perfect they are. That is extremely annoying.... )
posted by weesha at 10:25 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I think that to you, curvy is the space between fat and thin. But to me, "average" is the word to describe the space between fat and thin. Curvy is something totally separate. Petite and very shapely with a small waist... sounds curvy to me.
posted by smalls at 10:27 AM on November 4, 2009

Don't police other women's bodies. Don't police other women's self-descriptions of their bodies.

It's fine to signal your indifference to someone else's body talk. It's fine to say "You know, this kind of talk annoys me/makes me uncomfortable."

But arguing with someone else about their self-perception kind of makes you a jerk.

One of the key tenets of body acceptance is to not only accept your own body as, you know, a body with unique dimensions, areas of strength and weakness (I mean physical strength and weakness here--maybe you can run fast but not lift heavy objects or whatever), and qualities. You might have a scar on your knee from a childhood rollerskating disaster; she might have a birthmark on her elbow that's just like her Grandma's.

What your body, and her body, AREN'T are products that need to fit a standardized set of measurements. They're you, and her. They're your corporeal beings. Talking about them as though they were eggs to be sorted by size is crazy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:28 AM on November 4, 2009 [16 favorites]

Also, it doesn't matter what you think "curvy" means. It doesn't matter what anyone on the thread thinks "curvy" means. She uses the word "curvy" to mean something negative, which is odd to me (I have always heard it to mean "shapely and voluptuous" myself), but saying to her "You're not curvy" is rude and counterproductive.

"I think you're using that word in an idiosyncratic way" or "That's not how I would use the word 'curvy'" are conversations. "You're not curvy" is just plain rudeness.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:30 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]

I think you're overthinking about your body which is just strengthening your insecurity and need to stop comparing/talking/thinking about, etc. it if you're going to feel bad about it.
posted by anniecat at 10:31 AM on November 4, 2009

Would you be as offended if she had described herself as brunette when she is really more blonde?

I may be in the same boat as your friend. I describe myself as curvy, others see me as thin. I see myself naked. Others do not. I wear clothes that flatter my body. I also carry myself well -people usually think I am well over the 5'1" that I actually am. Maybe this all applies to your friend as well. It's a silly thing to get snippy or offended over. And it isn't a body image thing for my case, either.
posted by kellyblah at 10:37 AM on November 4, 2009

I see curvy as the difference between shoulders-hips-waist-ankles, and neck-bust-waist-butt in silhouette. My sister and I are both what I consider to be curvy, she's 5'7 and 180, I'm 5'1 (okay, 5'0.5) and 110. So I think she's probably pretty upset at what you said because not curvy might = you have a body like a 12-year-old boy in her mind.

I agree on cut her some slack. Curvy is a shape, not a weight.
posted by variella at 10:38 AM on November 4, 2009

Don't take on someone else's body issues. How she inhabits her body is different from how you inhabit yours and HER opinions about HER body are the ones that matter.

Yes, women's bodies in this culture are a fraught business. Don't try to make a point with her - it will end up upsetting you both and accomplish nothing. Just be happy in your own body and let her embody hers the way that feels natural to *her.*
posted by grapefruitmoon at 10:40 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

These labels used nowadays, I don't get them myself. Scarlett Johansson is curvy? America Ferrera is curvy? (She's a Size 6!) But that being said, I agree with box here. Let her call herself whatever she wants.

She probably has the same body issues as you do (and what woman can escape such issues growing up in a country where damn-near-anorexic women are held up as the physical ideal?)

If it helps you, make up a term for your body that differentiates you from the skinny, so-called curvies. I use "substantial" (I'm a short size 12, who, as Sir Mix-a-Lot would say "red beans and rice" didn't miss. And I'd have it no other way. 'Course, it took me a looooooong time to get here. Honor where your friend is now. It's tough out here.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:45 AM on November 4, 2009

I'm 4'11' and I have a 34 inch hip measurement. That is still a size 0-2 in pants, but I still have what looks like a "curvy" butt for my frame, because I'm thin and small in the waist, boobs, and shoulders, and I don't have the leg length to balance out the butt. It is extremely hard to get good pants, and I will complain about my butt. You friend is probably coming from a similar place.
posted by slow graffiti at 10:50 AM on November 4, 2009

Suppose you succeed and she ceases to describe herself as curvy. What have you achieved?
posted by dzot at 10:53 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

Well, to be honest, I'm one of those people who really dislike the descriptor "curvy" because I don't think it's really being used right half the times nowadays. I don't think curvy should be based on a yardstick of size/weight in any way. It should mean exactly what the word means. Curves. Meaning the shape/silhouette of the body. An hourglass or bombshell figure is curvy, regardless of the size of your waist, height, or how much you weight on the scale. Got a booty like a shelf? That's pretty curvy. You avoid push up bras because you'd end up suffocating yourself? An extreme, but you could be built like that and not be a size 24. You could be a tall Amazoness type, maybe built more like a Wagnerian heroine? How about a diminutive firecracker? The point to me is that your body's shape goes dramatically in and out based on chest, waist and hips ratio. It doesnt matter whether or not you've got an 18 inch waist or a 38 inch waist.

Now, I haven't actually seen your friend, so I don't know really have anything to base my (subjective) opinion on, but I don't understand why "curvy" would be her being insecure unless she specifically was equating that word to "fat" in a negative connotation, which I didn't see her doing from your description of events. It does sound like she's just venting frustration of not fitting into the sometimes black and white size definitions that modern clothing/fashion seems to have, which honestly can be annoying whether or not you work in a business dealing with bodies specifically. Just buying clothes when you're a certain bra size can be torture because apparently a lot of times bigger sizes=ONLY bigger belly, not broader shoulder or bigger chests, but buy any size that fits you elsewhere, and you're busting out obscenely. And don't get me started on lack of clothing choices. You're either up to a size 12 (IF you're lucky depending on the store), or you're wearing garishly printed tent-like things. The in betweens are hard to find. I didn't catch what industry she works in, but you say it's image conscious. I mean, just watch any season of America's Next Top Model where girls get shoved into a being plus-sized just for having thicker thighs or breasts larger than a B cup, but then get berated for getting too fat to be model material or the girls who are too "big" to be the usual model type, but after losing a pound or two they aren't even "big enough" to be plus-sized. And I'm saying all of this as a definitely not "curvy", just plain overweight, girl. Maybe there's details to this conversation we're not privy to, but it seems like you're wanting to call out this girl based on a pretty narrow and baggage-laden assumption of what "curvy" is.
posted by kkokkodalk at 10:58 AM on November 4, 2009

"Curvy" means different things to different people. Some consider it a euphemism for overweight, and some consider it an attractive quality that stands in opposition to being overly thin. I wouldn't sweat what she calls herself.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 11:00 AM on November 4, 2009

Since this is bordering on OMG-skinny-girls-suck-amirite-Filter: This kind of guilt-tripping is very uncomfortable and frustrating for those of us, like your friend, who (through no fault of our own) ended up with small bodies. Seriously, we're all allowed to complain about our genes once in a while, even if you personally don't think our complaints are valid. You really can't expect the people around you to walk on eggshells all the time and never bring up their own bodies just because you have issues with yours.
posted by oinopaponton at 11:02 AM on November 4, 2009 [10 favorites]

Maybe as a compromise, you can both agree to mutually support each other in ending the cycle of "fat talk" that often crops up between women in a conversation.
posted by muddgirl at 11:10 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]

I'm 5'8" and 185 too. I'm also 33 and of hearty Northern European crofter-type stock, so I'm just dealing with the fact that my body thinks I should be popping out six or eight kids and providing enough body heat for a very long, cold winter-- even though I'm a childless Southern Californian. Feh to genetics.

If someone says something about their weight and you don't agree, grit your teeth and bear it, or grit your teeth and go home to your blog and explore your reactions there. Otherwise, you get into complicated feedback loops where their damage provokes your damage and you'll just end hating everyone and being miserable.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:10 AM on November 4, 2009

In the retail industry, "curvy" does have an actual definition (which can vary from company to company ymmv yadda yadda) in that it means that there is a larger than average (typically larger than 12") difference between the waist and hip measurement. So agreeing here with everyone who says curvy does not equal fat. Especially in petites, if you have, say, a 13" difference between waist and hip (say 36" hip 22" waist) it can be really hard to find clothes that fit.

My feeling is that she hoped you might perhaps commiserate with her, rather than call her out.
posted by anastasiav at 11:11 AM on November 4, 2009

Forgot to add that, although the link I posted doesn't really go into it, "fat talk" would also include making positive or negative remarks about thinness as well. So I include "You're so skinny!" or "OMG she needs to eat a sandwich" and so on in my moratorium on fat talk.
posted by muddgirl at 11:11 AM on November 4, 2009

The title of this post presents a totally different issue than the body of the post, to my eyes. "Is it ok to call out skinny girls for calling themselves fat" does not equal "my petite, shapely friend referred to herself using a word that I believe means fat, what do I do about my feelings surrounding that?" Which is what the problem actually seems to be.

Like many others here have already said, curvy doesn't necessarily mean fat. There are only so many words we use to describe body shape, and they mean different things to different people. I'll use my own body as an example here -- I'm the same height as you, 5 foot 8, but at the moment I outweigh you by at least sixty pounds. Twenty pounds ago, when my waist was more defined and I sported a classic hourglass shape, I thought of myself as curvy. Now that my waist is obscured by pie and booze (breakfast of champions!), I don't use curvy so much to describe myself, I'll just straight-up call myself fat. (I'm reclaiming "fat" as just a plain old descriptive word and not the baseless moral judgement it's become.). But I've heard other people refer to my current body as curvy, sexy, grotesque and fatty fatty boombalatty. Different perceptions, same body. Funny, that.

I have a friend who sounds a lot like your friend. She's petite and shapely, wears a size 4 in most clothes and has lots of curves and muscles, but she thinks of herself as fat because her sisters and her mother are all slender and willowy, and they call her piggy and fatty and ridicule her body on a near daily basis. Again, different perceptions, same body. I wouldn't call my friend's body anything near fat, but then I don't have to live in her body. Maybe if I wore her meatsuit I'd feel differently, who knows. What I do know is that when she calls herself fat, I sometimes have a very hard time not bringing the smackdown on her because by god she's not fat how dare she say she's fat when I'm so much fatter omg raaaaaage. So I get where you're coming from, I really do. Personally I've found it so much more helpful to point her in the direction of the size acceptance movement. Maybe that would help you, too. It's certainly helped me in dealing with my body image issues, among other things. I'm a fan of Shapely Prose because of the feminist slant of their posts, but if that's not your cup of tea there are many other blogs and websites out there.
posted by palomar at 11:12 AM on November 4, 2009

At the same time, I can't help but feel that she really doesn't occupy the space between fat and thin, whereas I have for my whole life. I feel by identifying as such, she a) has some unrealistic ideas about her body, and b) is attaching herself to an identity she hasn't really experienced.

Maybe the problem is a lack of acknowledgment that the space between fat and skinny is a biiiiiiiig place, and she's just dipped a pinky toe into the water, while you're an experienced swimmer in these waters. Her feeling a little extra-curvy doesn't reset the curve scale to tip you over into "fat for reals." You can both be right.

I'm like your friend. I'd be described as thin by 90% of people, but I am very aware of how my body has changed in my 30s and that parts of it curve in new ways, some of which I like, and some of which I don't like. I'm really small-boned and could stand to lose a few pounds and get more fit, I have indeed been chastised for having a perfectly reasonable opinion about my own body because I don't exceed a certain number of pounds.
posted by desuetude at 11:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

it's not a competition to see who is the biggest victim. She's allowed to be happy or unhappy with her body whether she is a size 0 or a size 24. Your opinions on her body are not more valid than hers. You are denying her her own experience. Wow, we've had several Metatalk threads about men telling women they are *wrong* wrt various interpersonal reactions. Don't tell her she's wrong about her own freakin' body.
posted by gaspode at 11:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I think there's a derail here about the word "curvy." Your short question was "Is it Ok to call out skinny girls for calling themselves fat?" That is something that drives me nuts--I am very fat (280#)--and it is pretty damned uncomfortable to be around a woman who weighs 100 pounds less than me talking to me about how much weight she needs to lose, in really negative nasty language. Sometimes I just want to be like, "WTF? Can you see me here?" I know that somehow there is some disconnect in their minds that they can be hating on their 180 or 140 pound body and somehow think they're not implying anything about mine, but I still hate it. I haven't found a good response, but I do excuse myself from these conversations.

On the other hand, if someone said to me, "I really have to come to terms with the fact that I'm curvy," I'd try not to get into any "how can you have body issues when your body is so much more socially acceptable than mine?" I'd probably say something like, "That sounds great. I love it when women are comfortable with their bodies."
posted by not that girl at 11:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]

You really can't expect the people around you to walk on eggshells all the time and never bring up their own bodies just because you have issues with yours.

Although I totally agree with the rest of your comment, oinopaponton, I have some issues with this.

Wouldn't it be better if nobody felt that complaining about their body size and shape was a reasonable topic of conversation? I mean, yeah, if you're talking with your personal trainer, it makes sense, but body self-criticism as a topic of general conversation is stupid, no matter who's engaging in it.

There are lots of people in the world who are 5'8" and 250 pounds who would be just as outraged by the anonymous poster's temerity to consider herself anything other than "part of the thin mainstream." And there are lots of people in the world who are 5'8" and 350 pounds who would be just as outraged by the 250-pounders' temerity to consider themselves as anything other than "part of the thin mainstream." And so on and so forth.

And all of those people are getting it wrong. It's an endless cycle of self-loathing, and nobody has to engage in it if they don't want to. It's hard to stop negative body-talk, but if you can manage it, it's incredibly liberating.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:14 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

Ugh, it totally bugs me that "curvy" has become code in magazines for "overweight". I am definitely curvy -- not fat, but curvy. Hourglass shape. Kind of soft. In between. I'm also very petite. What really annoys me is that in magazines, they will basically only show very thin women and sometimes will feature "curvy" (plus-size) women (and they should be featured!), but us "in between" gals are very rarely shown. I think this kind of creates this dichotomy -- like, either you're fat or you're thin. But of course there's a range. And the reason I have always liked the word "curvy" is that I feel like it's a word that it has a positive connotation -- and also accurately describes what I look like. In my definition, Scarlett Johanson and America Ferrara are definitely curvy. They have hourglass figures -- hourglass = curvy.
posted by imalaowai at 11:16 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm petite and skinny. I certainly wouldn't call myself curvy, but I do have the occasional hangup. It is not your right to comment on the merits of it. If she is incessantly whining (about anything, not just her body), you can change the subject or exit the conversation.

It sounds like you're playing the identity game of "I'm more oppressed than you." That's annoying and offensive. Or maybe "I'm more entitled to my insecurities than you." That's just plain weird.
posted by desjardins at 11:18 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

Yes, as Sidhedevil says, please don't police other women's bodies or other women's experiences and descriptions of their own bodies. I was once told (only half-jokingly, but with a clearly hostile undertone) by a heavy woman who barely knew me that I deserved to get cancer for being tall and thin. Funny thing was, I was actually undergoing cancer treatment at the time. Nice.

Women's bodies issues are a very fraught thing, and many -- though certainly not all -- have now or have had issues in the past. So ask yourself: are you constructively and compassionately alleviating those problems, or are you inadvertantly contributing to their proliferation and the ways in which they divide women from each other's shared experiences?
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm a guy... but, to me, curvy means... well... it means a woman's body curves inward as well as outward. In other words... a smaller waist that curves out to hips and breasts. On the other hand, being between fat and skinny is just average.

The meaning of the word curvy is being changed to mean heavy because people have a need to use positive words for things they view as negative. This leads to confusion as different people use the same word to mean different things... and really, since language is always evolving, is anyone really "wrong"?

Everyone judges themselves against other people, but really, it doesn't matter if your friend is curvy or skinny or even fat. What matters is how you feel about yourself.
posted by 2oh1 at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009

Rather than be annoyed with her, you should pity her.

Someone who is fat and who knows they are fat is at least in touch with reality.

Someone who is skinny and thinks they are fat is the victim of a delusion. They are out of touch with reality and are in danger of all sorts of unhealthy eating-disorder-related behavior as a result.

Pity this woman, don't be annoyed. Then decide what action to take from that perspective.
posted by alms at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2009

I think this applies to self-labels in general whether good or bad "I'm a genius", "I'm a rebel", "I'm a christian". I think to myself "No you are not".

Do you have a point? Does she know what shes talking about? It's hard to answer in a way that's universal because in this case there isn't a universally accepted way to measure curvy. I'd say you are fine to be annoyed but I'd consider whether the inevitable argument is worth it.
posted by syntheticfaith at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2009

I've always called myself curvy. There's no weight or size limit on curves. I was curvy at 120 pounds, and I'm curvy now at 140, and lord willing and Couch to 5K providing, I'll be curvy again at 120 pounds some day soon. It's how my body is designed.

Curves aren't about weight, they're about mathematics. A curve's a curve whether convex or concave.
posted by padraigin at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2009

+1 on not policing other women's bodies.

In addition to that, "curvy" is not a polite term for fat. It's descriptive of an hourglass figure, for which large boobs and a small waist qualifies, and for which there is no height requirement.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]

Setting aside the issue of what label is appropriate for whom, you could always express your disagreement in a less confrontational way. If someone tells you, "I am X", and you flatly state, "No, you are not X", it's pretty likely that they're going to be offended no matter what X is. Instead you could say something like, "Oh, you see yourself that way? It wouldn't have occurred to me to describe you that way," etc. (Assuming you think fighting about this is a problem and you want to avoid it...)
posted by dixie flatline at 11:30 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'd like to reiterate halogen's answer, which is exactly right even though the most important part was inexplicably set in teeny-tiny type:

when did people start assuming that curvy means overweight? To me, it describes a female body with attractive proportions, i.e. a thin waist and all the other parts in the right places. If your friend feels the same way, she probably took offense because you basically told her "You are not attractive."

I find it very silly that "curvy" is considered a specific female body type rather than just synonymous with "a woman's body." Women, whether they're average weight or underweight or overweight or whatever, have curves that men don't. Saying you're curvy is like saying: you're a woman.

The fact that you wrote out this whole question about this one interchange suggests you have deeper questions than just whether this woman's comment was appropriate. But you're anonymous and can't follow up so it's hard to zero in on these issues in this thread.

One other thing:

I, on the other hand, am 5'8 and 185lbs (when I tell people this, they usually make a face and say 'That can't be right'),

Those people are being jerks. I recommend ignoring them. There's nothing remotely surprising about someone who's 5'8 and 185.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:34 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

By your own admission, she is curvy. I hate that being curvy has become a euphemism for being overweight.
posted by runningwithscissors at 11:43 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

To address this: So tell me, am I just being insecure and competitive unnecessarily, or do I have a point? : Whether or not you are right, it makes you uncomfortable. If her talking about weight upsets you, or if it's a conversation you just don't want to have, I think it's perfectly ok to tell her so. Not in an "omg what do you know about curvy?!" manner of course, but more along the lines of "I find this topic uncomfortable/upsetting/insert your adjective here". It's okay to set your own boundaries as to what kind of conversation you are willing to participate in.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 11:49 AM on November 4, 2009

Another thing... You said: "While [she] is indeed very shapely, she ... has a very small waist." (Italics added.)

That just doesn't make sense. She's not shapely despite having a small waist. Having a small waist adds to shapeliness/curviness.

It should read: "She is indeed very shapely, with a very small waist, and is thus appropriately described as curvy."
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:55 AM on November 4, 2009

I hate that being curvy has become a euphemism for being overweight.

Can everyone just shut up with this business, too? Lots of "overweight" women are "curvy" in the sense you folks seem to be using it (having an hourglass figure).

THE WAY TO STOP PEOPLE FROM POLICING YOUR BODY IS TO STOP POLICING OTHER PEOPLE'S BODIES, not to get "them" to police bodies in a way you like.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:56 AM on November 4, 2009 [5 favorites]

Unwanted male perspective here.

My wife is a classic "elven" body type. 5'3", barely cracks the upper 90's, and just does. not. gain. She's like a size 2, and can barely fill those out. She was sitting on the couch with me last night chowing down on a whole turkey leg, and practically finished the thing by the time we were done, so no worries about eating disorders! She's been this shape all 31 of her years, and I'm pretty sure she's convinced that shape isn't going to change anytime soon. I am too. And though I might be a biased source, I think it's safe to say that she's a solidly beautiful woman. She gets hit on in my presence, often, and when we're in public together she demands light PDA every now and again to keep the mooks off her (she told me so!). She knows she's attractive, and sometimes it doesn't even seem to register with her that I think she is too.

Yet, she is uncomfortable going out in the grungy old sweatshirt and slacks she wears around the house, in which, if you ask me, she looks quite beyond fine. She'll spend hours sometimes trying to find the perfect outfit. And sometimes she'll come upstairs to the computer room where I sit ensconced in my ever-expanding cocoon of blubber, my jawline burrowing ever so slowly into the walrus folds beginning to form around my neck, and she'll stand there in calf-high boots and just blurt out, "Do these make my thighs look big?" "Does this neckline make my head look too big?" "Do these sleeves make my arms look too short?" What?!?!

The cuffs on the hoodie I'm wearing are fraying off. I have cigarette ash on my pantleg. The oil on my bald head that I haven't shaved for 5 days sends off a tallowy gleam under the flourescent desk lamp as I turn to her, my uneven brows arched in shock at how the hell she doesn't know how good she looks, especially compared to a pale lump with skinny arms and a burst 6-pack like me.

If her thighs were any thinner she wouldn't even look like a woman. Her head isn't even as wide across as my hand. Her arms are just a few inches from simian, with how skinny she is, and she asks me things like this. I used to wonder what went through her head when she asked me things like this. But the truth is, at the times I've watched her try on different pairs of boots, it's true, some do actually make her legs look stumpier than others. And it's true that her legs are maybe just a slight size larger than the golden ratio ideal. She has trouble finding pants that aren't too long or too tight, even though to me they all look like drainpipes unless I'm really focusing. And I see where she gets the big head/stumpy tyrannosaur arms thing - if she puts on something that isn't form-fitting, even something with just a little bit of billow, she looks like the letter A. A triangle with doofy little arms and a big dopey ball on top.

I didn't used to think so, but I've been looking at her in every piece of clothing she owns for two years, and I'm not at all stunned by her appearance anymore. I think I see some of what she sees when she looks in the mirror. I get where she's coming from, which is seeing herself all the time. So while I can understand why you'd be weirded out hearing your petite, shapely friend say she thinks she's fat, you have to realize that even for psychologically healthy people, we rarely look in the mirror and see someone gorgeous. I should know, I'm 6', 180lb., straight teeth, no outsized facial organs...but you should hear the things I say about myself. Your friend is probably "conventionally attractive", but you try and tell her that. I won't listen, despite knowing that I don't look too ridiculous, my wife won't listen, despite all evidence to the contrary, and I doubt your friend will listen either. You have a point in that, objectively, you're right, she's nowhere near "fat". But that image in the mirror that you look at your entire life isn't an objective one! That guy in the movies who looks in the mirror, slicks back his hair, and says, "Damn you're beautiful" is a comedy trope because that's mildly sociopathic behavior right there. If you say, "Yeah, that'll do, that's alright, not too fat/wrinkly/stumpy/gangly today," then you're in a good place, but not all of us are all of the time.

Give your friend a break. Everyone struggles with something different when they look in the mirror.
posted by saysthis at 12:08 PM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

In my book, curvy means having round breasts, a small waist, and rounded hips. Body size is irrelevant. For instance this blogger describes her own body as thin and curvy, and I agree with her. Compared to, say, this woman, who is thin and not curvy.

Casually, people use curvy to mean overweight a lot of the time, and often having more weight equals more curves. But it's not an exact match: you can also be overweight and not curvy. It's not really about size, it's about shape. Here are two women who are very similar in size, but one is curvy and one is not.
posted by twistofrhyme at 12:13 PM on November 4, 2009

First, not all women are always insecure about their bodies. I, for one, could give a rat's ass, and I'm not going to give you my measurements, because it doesn't matter (that is the point). Your friend described herself in a way that she sees fit, and since I wasn't there to hear her tone, I can't tell you whether she is proud, matter-of-fact, insecure, "right" or "wrong" about her body. What I can tell you, is that worrying about it is on you, and makes you seem insecure. I can also say, she has a right to describe herself however she wants. If you feel uncomfortable discussing weight or shape, it is fine for you to say so but it is not okay to judge her size, shape or weight compared to her description or your standards.

+1 for stop policing women's bodies. Everyone else doing it doesn't need your help. Questioning a woman's description of her body is trying to categorize her, and that is body-snarking pure and simple. We don't need more women on women crime, we already have Ana Wintour. Concentrate on loving your own body.

Remember, you and your friend have to look at the same magazines, and shop at the same clothing stores with clothing cut for one body type. Whether skinny, fat, average, curvaceous, or stick-like, you both, and the rest of us have to live in this world where we are often made to feel uncomfortable. Instead of worrying about whether she is justified in not describing herself as thin instead of some other word, support each other.
posted by itsonreserve at 12:17 PM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I have real sympathy with anyone who has geniune body issues. That said, I've been around girls who were obviously much thinner than me who casually throw out comments like - "oh, I'm so fat" or "I'm such a lard-ass" and that does tend to irritate me. There's a difference between someone who has genuine issues that they're talking about and someone who's fishing for compliments and I think you can generally tell which one you're dealing with. If I really can't tell, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It depends on where you honestly think this girl was coming from. I wouldn't actually say anything but if I was around someone who did that continually, I would do the same thing I would do to any person who shows a lack of sensitivity and stop hanging around them. To me it's like complaining that I don't have enough money to upgrade to an iPhone when I'm with a single mother who is struggling to buy winter boots for her kids.
posted by triggerfinger at 12:23 PM on November 4, 2009

Can everyone just shut up with this business, too? Lots of "overweight" women are "curvy" in the sense you folks seem to be using it (having an hourglass figure).

Respectfully, I don't understand why people need to shut up about this. It's a word that is pretty much in the middle of being stretched in different directions, I feel discussing that is natural.

Curvy and overweight are not mutually exclusive, it is true. Neither are they mutually inclusive, which is the point that I think is being made by many posters here (myself included). It's not about policing anyone, at least for me it's about a word being used by the OP that no longer seems to have a fixed or precise meaning.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 12:30 PM on November 4, 2009

women are really mean to each other. it's so ingrained that some women are mean to other women and don't even realize it. you pushed your body issues on to your friend and at the same time tried to keep her from having her own. that kind of makes you a bully. feel what youw ant to feel, but put your friendships ahead of your own insecurities and your need to be right.

also, i'm 5'10" and 185 pounds and i get told often that i'm skinny or slender or what have you even though i know i'm a size 16 and have a belly i can clutch in my hands - just because my weight is distributed in a way that i can cover my imperfections with clothes doesn't make me any less overweight - i've had women get offended when i've described myself as chunky or needing to lose a few pounds just because my figure is more hourglass than pear. you have seemingly had the same experience which is why i'm even more baffled that you would try to tell this woman how she should refer to her own body.
posted by nadawi at 12:55 PM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

I think it should be OK for women you perceive as being "skinny" to engage in dialogue with you about body issues. Why shut down discussion with some sort of pissing contest about who is or isn't "fat enough", when you're discussing feelings and attitudes? I've had similar situations happen (on her side of it), where I've kept myself from participating in conversations about struggling with weight gain and inactivity during winter months, or not loving my body all the time, out of fear (borne of experience) that instead of being able to join in on a "me, too" bonding experience over how difficult it is to own a female body, I'll be snarled at with, "how would YOU know", due to a lower dress size number. This is not sisterhood. This is not power. This is not creating community to address the wider problem.

And yes, restricting "curvy" to mean "plus sized" is something I have an issue with, as well as frequent use of the phrase, "REAL woman/women" to distinguish those who are sized 10 and above from the rest of us. It's hostile to women of one sort of shape in the name of making other women feel better about THEIR shape...which is idiotic, and has nothing to do with size acceptance, empowering women, etc.
posted by availablelight at 1:01 PM on November 4, 2009 [12 favorites]

availablelight, thank you -- the whole "REAL women have curves" thing drives me nuts, because it assumes, for example, that my sister is more of a real woman than I am, simply because we have totally different body types.
posted by scody at 1:05 PM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]

[few comments removed - this should have been in email or metatalk a long time ago - same goes for snarking at the OP, can't be respectful? don't answer.]
posted by jessamyn at 1:25 PM on November 4, 2009

This kind of guilt-tripping is very uncomfortable and frustrating for those of us, like your friend, who (through no fault of our own) ended up with small bodies. Seriously, we're all allowed to complain about our genes once in a while, even if you personally don't think our complaints are valid. You really can't expect the people around you to walk on eggshells all the time and never bring up their own bodies just because you have issues with yours.

You're allowed to complain about whatever you want. However, there's also something called tact. It's not clear from the OP's question whether or not her friend was complaining or just musing aloud. But it's a bit socially oblivious, at least, to bitch about something to somebody who's worse off than you and expect them to sympathize. Once, I was in a outdoor-equipment store in Greece, and I offhandedly mentioned to the salesperson that I was "poor" (i.e., I could not afford to purchase some or other accoutrement to go along with my new sleeping bag.). He grew serious and told me, politely, to not ever call myself poor because I did not know what the fuck I was talking about. I was embarrassed, but he was absolutely right. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to complain about being broke or joke about being poor, but doing it in front of people who are actually poor is just bad form, because it trivializes their experience.

In general, the issues surrounding women's feelings about their own bodies are so complicated and burdensome that I think it's fair to give yourself a pass here. I say this as somebody with a similar body type to your friend, but who spent most of her life thirty pounds heavier (and lost the weight as a side effect of medication, so it's not like I have anything to be self-righteous about.). I consider myself curvy, and when I weighed more, I was also curvy, but curvy then meant something different to me - a word I could use to feel better about myself when most of the time I felt awful. So to hear a thinner girl use it as a pseudo-complaint would have been very hurtful. Just like when my toothpick-limbed high-school best friend used to lift up her shirt to reveal her concave stomach and say, "UGH! See how bloated I am??" Oh, how the violins would play.

So yeah, in general I think complaining about your body to somebody who's heavier than you is in poor taste, and I think your friend was being thoughtless. But I think she gets a pass, too. She obviously has her own body issues, and as we all know, they have a way of being distorted and irrational, so she may honestly not have realized that she was being offensive.
posted by granted at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2009

When it comes to body image, we tend to be our own worst critics. I know that I hold myself up to a higher standard than I do other women. I wish I could get past that, but I can't. So when I crack a joke about not fitting into my clothes (as I am still working on operation: fitting back into pants), it's about *my* ass not fitting into *my* pants and not about how much smaller or larger my ass is compared to yours.

For a contrasting opinion that addresses the idea of "thin privilege", see this blog post (and assorted links).
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2009

You use the word "curvy" as a euphemism for "fat". You friend was using it to say that, uh, she has curves. Of course you have right to feel annoyed, but every body shape has issues. I'm going to nth this sentiment: do you know how freaking difficult it is to find bras in 32D or dresses in 00Petite? itwillmakeyoulooseyourmind.
posted by pintapicasso at 2:21 PM on November 4, 2009

[comments removed - this is a touchy enough topic without argiung about what "real women have curves" means and how annoying it is/is not. thanks.]
posted by jessamyn at 3:11 PM on November 4, 2009

I'm now what is known as a 'pocket Venus' - quite curvy. I'm a whopping 5'0" and 120 lbs - but it seems that all of that went to my breasts and hips. So, while I'm still 'tiny', this tiny little thing is uncomfortably rocking the D cup.
posted by spinifex23 at 3:59 PM on November 4, 2009

Why is everyone in this thread calling out the OP for using "curvy" to mean "overweight" when the person using it in that way was her friend?
By curvy, she meant (her words) that she occupied an awkward space where she wasn't fat and she wasn't skinny...
Note that the OP mentioned that this was her friend's definition of curvy not hers. I think the OP is aware of the more correct definition of curvy, but is conscious that her friend used it in a negative sense.
So her friend was definitely using the word curvy to say something negative about how much she weighed and what curvy ought to mean is really not relevant. Thus all those posters who answered that the OP and her friend were using curvy in two different ways (with the OP taking it to be negative and her friend to be positive) really ought to read the question again)
To answer the original question, no, I don't think it's ok to call out skinny girls for calling themselves fat. Skinny is relative. As someone proportioned similarly to you, I have my fair share of body image problems and I wouldn't appreciate being called out by someone heavier than me.
posted by peacheater at 4:00 PM on November 4, 2009

Why do you care? Seriously. Ask yourself that. And listen to SidheDevil.
posted by ixohoxi at 6:01 PM on November 4, 2009

granted, I kind of see what you're saying, but being overweight is not the same thing as being very poor. At all.

I mostly agree with Sidhedevil that the real answer to this is just body acceptance, but when you're actually friends with someone, I don't think you should need to constantly have a filter up. This might be a bad example, but I don't have big boobs. Am I jealous of my some of my friends' bra sizes sometimes, and the attention they get, and the way it's easier for them to find tops that fit? Yeah. But do I throw a fit when they talk about their boobs? No way, because that kind of jealousy is toxic and would be my problem, not theirs, and I care about what's in their heads more than what their bodies look like.
posted by oinopaponton at 7:25 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

FWIW, I'm about two inches shorter than you and nearly 50 pounds lighter, but my proportions mean that I'm not what typically reads as thin in North American culture (in other words, this trunk is chock full of junk). It's really frustrating for smaller women with relatively obtuse proportions to hear that there's something off about them describing themselves as "curvy". If you insist on using "curvy" as a euphemism for overweight, then you're contributing to the problem.
posted by thisjax at 7:49 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

OMIGOD this is SO annoying! But ... each person lives in their own reality, and this is one of the ways YOUR reality doesn't coincide with hers.

I'm chunky curvy or something like that - I have some body issues, but I'm still pretty comfortable in my skin. I realized that other women, with bodies that I wish I had sometimes are even worse off emotionally.

I have a friends who´s pretty thin. She had been sick for a while, and one day I saw her and I thought she had gained some weight (= some badly needed curves!) and I said something about it and she got really bent out of shape. Like she had to have a talk with me about it the next day. I explained to her it was supposed to be a compliment, and I made a mental note to myself: nevah evah mention her body weight to her again.

I also had a roommate who used to make disparaging comments about herself whenever she started to put on a few pounds, and I always thought, if that´s what she thinks about herself, what must she think about me?

Until that point, I just thought all women who weigh 30+ lbs less than me MUST be happy with their bodies! I was so wrong!
posted by Locochona at 8:50 PM on November 4, 2009

But it's a bit socially oblivious, at least, to bitch about something to somebody who's worse off than you and expect them to sympathize.

Why is it to be assumed that anonymous is "worse off" than her friend? That sounds dangerously like an assumption that a lower weight/skinnier is unconditionally better.
posted by desuetude at 9:58 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]

She is curvy, probably. Fat people sometimes call themselves curvy, but that doesn't change the fact that they're fat.
posted by smorange at 7:59 AM on November 5, 2009