Required notice for vacating apartment?

November 2, 2009 8:30 PM

Our apartment was damaged on Friday, and the whole floor needs to come out, possibly some of the drywall too. The property manager needs us to vacate, and remove all of our stuff, for an extended period of time (1-2 months). (Note that we have been dealing with the property manager, and to a lesser extent, the superintendent, and not our landlord.) How much notice is he legally required to give us? We live in Toronto. YANAL.

Today, at about 6, our landlord emailed us, saying the property manager wanted us out of our unit by Wednesday. Which gives us less than 2 days to co-ordinate moving, storage, and new accommodation.

Our insurance company informed us that repairs wouldn't take place for at least another three weeks. Until just a few hours ago, the super + PM had given us absolutely no information on when we could expect them to begin. The two of them came by to inspect the damage twice just today, and said nothing about it.

As far as I can tell, this is completely unreasonable. But I can't seem to find any specific tenancy law it violates, perhaps because repairs rarely require tenants to leave for such a long period of time. I have seen by-laws, for example, that require 24 hours of written notice for repairs - and that's reasonable for something like "I need to repair your water-pipe," but not for something like "I need you, and all of your stuff, out for 2 months."

What can we do?

posted by mellifluous to law & government (11 comments total)

I have a couple of questions I suspect are pertinent:

1. Who is responsible for causing the damage? You? The owner? Some other tenant? An outsider? Was it an Act of God? ("Act of God" is a legal term of art that means "bad luck, not anyone's responsibility".)

2. Is the damage sufficient so as to render the place dangerous, or legally uninhabitable? For instance, is it possible the floor could collapse under you when you walk around? Is there a hole to the outside world large enough to allow in 6-legged, or 4-legged, or 2-legged vermin?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:52 PM on November 2

1) The damage was caused by another tenant.

2) Inhabiting the apartment is not dangerous.
posted by mellifluous at 8:55 PM on November 2

(answer swiped from another thread...)

Call the Ontario Landlord Tenant Board with a copy of your lease in hand. Their number 416-645-8080.

Other considerations: How much of this (movers, storage, hotel) will your renter's insurance cover? Does your owner have another unit available for you to move into while you await repairs? If the floor was damaged, how about your furniture and other possessions? Have you paid rent for November?

I'd say speak with the ontario landlord tenant folks first, and then follow-up with your insurance claims adjuster. Once you have a full picture and a reasonable list of rights/requests - then go ahead and negotiate with your landlord. Via email.

(PS. - Ask the L&T folks about proper notification. I'm pretty sure email doesn't count, although, if there is water damage that might make for an extenuating circumstance. Check on that.)

Good Luck.
posted by jbenben at 8:58 PM on November 2

I suspect the best you can hope for here is the following:

1. Tomorrow morning first thing, contact some reliable move to come and take all your stuff out and store it somewhere.

2. Start looking for a new place to live. Once you find it, move in.

3. Use all this to convince your landlord to terminate your lease.

4. Because it is not your fault, you may eventually be able to sue for damages to recover your casualty.

Quite honestly, trying to fight the deadline is fraught with peril and I don't think you should try. Face it: this place is no longer your home.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:59 PM on November 2

(upon preview & follow-up)

Any repair that consists of ripping a unit down to the studs, even partially, probably isn't very safe for habitation.

There are landlord tenant laws in every jurisdiction that stipulate to habitability. Your landlord avoids a lot of future hassle and liability by performing this repair. Only a professional (building inspector!) can judge whether this repair is necessary under the law.

If you have doubts regarding your owner's claims, call your local building dept to send over an inspector. Similarly, you can call the building dept if the owner's building permits aren't in order once the repair has begun.

I'm not not not suggesting you screw with your landlord, someone you have not yet spoken to directly. I am suggesting you get the facts before making requests, demands or accusations.

That is all.

(EXCEPT!! Chocolate Pickle makes a fine point, too. FWIW.)
posted by jbenben at 9:13 PM on November 2

I promise not to baby-sit this thread, but:

jbenben: Any repair that consists of ripping a unit down to the studs, even partially, probably isn't very safe for habitation.

Repairs have not begun yet. We do not wish to remain in the apartment while the repairs go on - we will be happy to vacate at that point. Our claims adjuster and our contractor both tell us the apartment is presently habitable, although perhaps calling a building inspector would be in order. To address your other points, insurance is covering accommodation, moving, and storage. We did not sustain any significant property damage, but we have paid the rent for November. (We gave 12 post-dated checks.) I will definitely call the OLTB tomorrow.

Chocolate Pickle: We are considering asking to be let out of the lease, but various extenuating circumstances make me suspect that that would be no simpler than staying in a hotel for a month or two. Even if we do ask to be released from the lease, though, we would still like more than a couple of days notice.
posted by mellifluous at 9:28 PM on November 2

As Chocolate Pickle says, this is not your apartment any longer, and you probably need to stop thinking that way.

Somehow you've turned this relationship on its head, and the landlord is acting like a dick about it, and you're ... taking it. Start thinking like a bad-ass.

Sure, the fire or whatever it was wasn't your landlord's fault, but the lease (contract) that you signed guarantees you a living space, which is now uninhabitable. By any reasonable standard, that is grounds for lease termination.

Now, the power should be on the other foot. Toronto may in fact have a low vacancy rate (whereas in most of the US it's the opposite), making the city a landlord's market. So it's not clear why he's acting this way -- if he fixes it up he can probably rent it again toot sweet. Still, you need to try to play better hardball, even just as a negotiation/stalling tactic.

Tell the landlord he needs to pay for the mover, he needs to pay for the storage, and he needs to pay for a hotel for you until he -- the landlord -- can find you another place to live. We're talking common human decency here -- you're the victim as much as he is. (Play this tune if you think it will work.) Really, his insurance should cover at least some of that, and he can't be hurting in the current market either.

I knew a guy whose apartment burned up (10+ years tenancy), and for the duration of repairs the landlord set him up in a studio in the same building, and reduced his rent to the studio rate for the duration.

Anyway, sorry, but you're acting like pushovers. Push back. As a landlord, I've had prospective tenants get more forceful about new carpets. This is your home, man. I would not move out "by Wednesday" unless he gives you a city condemnation order.
posted by dhartung at 9:34 PM on November 2

Awesome, mellifluous!

Since you are ahead of the curve here in terms of information and compensation... First check with the OLTB about proper notification... then maybe go ahead and email the owner and tell him you'll be happy to vacate but that 2 days notice is a bit slim - is there any flexibility with the date?

If the answer is no, and moving quickly is impossible, then I might simply seek further compensations (maybe a few extra months free rent??) from the owner to make up for your hassle.

FWIW - my guess here is that the super and pm have not been clear with the owner regarding how much verbal or written notification you've gotten - the request on your timing to vacate is probably some sort of miscommunication between the owner and his employees. Give it a chance to work out. I strongly advise calling the building dept as a last resort and only if you are prepared to burn bridges with the building owner.

Best.
posted by jbenben at 9:46 PM on November 2

Under section 50 of the Residential Tenancy Act it says:

(1) A landlord may give notice of termination of a tenancy if the landlord requires possession of the rental unit in order to,

(c) do repairs or renovations to it that are so extensive that they require a building permit and vacant possession of the rental unit.

And also under section 50:

(2) The date for termination specified in the notice shall be at least 120 days after the notice is given and shall be the day a period of the tenancy ends or, where the tenancy is for a fixed term, the end of the term. 2006, c. 17, s. 50 (2).

Call the tenants rights organization first thing in the AM. The landlord has to give notice in writing and, it needs to be signed. They have to give you time, two days isn't anywhere near enough to arrange anything. You also have the right to be compensated (see section 54) I'm not sure if 50(2) applies, your best bet is to call someone who does know.

Quite honestly, trying to fight the deadline is fraught with peril and I don't think you should try. Face it: this place is no longer your home.

So any time a landlord wants to interpret the law any way they see fit, tenants should roll over and, acquiesce? I'm not assuming bad faith on the landlords part, but I wouldn't just give in before knowing what rights I had.
posted by squeak at 9:58 PM on November 2 [1 favorite]

IANAL, etc.

On the face of it, it seems like s.50(2) of the Act, quoted above by squak, applies to your circumstances. Do call the OLTB and ask them if your landlord's desired repair scenario constitutes "vacant posession". In any event, you should not need to leave on two days' notice if the unit is habitable and repairs will not be under way for some time. If you need longer than two days, do you expect that the landlord and/or his agents will be able to force you out?
posted by onshi at 7:09 AM on November 3

I would add that they probably want you out in a hurry so that you will move in somewhere else -- allowing them to rent the repaired unit to someone else at a higher price under Ontario's "vacancy decontrol" rent control regime -- rather than attempt to remain a tenant there in a freshly renovated unit at the pre-renovation rent. What do you want to do?
posted by onshi at 7:12 AM on November 3 [1 favorite]