Help me get my libido in check with reality.
October 27, 2009 7:56 AM Subscribe
Help me get my libido in check with reality. Very long story inside.
I'm in a long-term (20+ years) relationship with my soulmate and the love of my life. We're married and have several children. We're happy.
But my libido is much, much stronger than hers, and it always has been. I could have sex twice a day; she could have it once or twice a month. Probably not that unusual, I know.
I've recently gone through therapy and learned a lot about myself; I learned how much I was blaming everything on her, and how I was counting on her affection as pretty much my sole source of happiness. So those are all things that I understand, and I'm working on. I'm beginning to see what a ridiculous burden I have been placing on her all these years, requiring (in my head) that she be ultra-physical and outgoing and giving in order for me to have any self-esteem or sense of worth.
But still, there's that physical urge that is just ridiculously strong. I'm late thirties, she's pushing 40. And I feel like a teenager when it comes to the hormones. Now, by most people's standards, we have a really good sex life. We have sex once or twice a week, on average. That's pretty good for people who work and have a house full of kids. We make it happen, in part thanks to her awesome attitude about it. And it's not like she doesn't enjoy it - she has orgasms as often as I do, and once she gets going she really enjoys it. But it takes effort to "get her going," whereas I'm pretty much always ready to go.
Here's something that I know shouldn't matter but does: I was a virgin when we got together. She wasn't. So she's the only partner I've ever had. So one of the things I'm constantly battling is this notion that I'm "missing something" - which intellectually I know isn't the case, but it nags at the back of my mind. I also struggle with jealousy, that she got to experience things I didn't.
Also: I know one of the time-tested bits of advice usually given is exercise, but paradoxically, when I go through periods of fitness/nutrition, all of this gets much more intense - I guess because of all of the testosterone and emphasis on physicality. So those are things I do and need to do anyway, but just please understand that "get more exercise" isn't helpful in this case.
I masturbate as often as is practical, but that doesn't really move the needle. To me, that's something different entirely, and doesn't satisfy the desire for skin-on-skin intimacy.
So, then: How can I adjust my libido and expectations down into the realm of reality? How do I approach/conquer the notion that I should be getting more (sex/affection/etc.)? How can I make this mean less to me, depress me less, bother me less?
I'm in a long-term (20+ years) relationship with my soulmate and the love of my life. We're married and have several children. We're happy.
But my libido is much, much stronger than hers, and it always has been. I could have sex twice a day; she could have it once or twice a month. Probably not that unusual, I know.
I've recently gone through therapy and learned a lot about myself; I learned how much I was blaming everything on her, and how I was counting on her affection as pretty much my sole source of happiness. So those are all things that I understand, and I'm working on. I'm beginning to see what a ridiculous burden I have been placing on her all these years, requiring (in my head) that she be ultra-physical and outgoing and giving in order for me to have any self-esteem or sense of worth.
But still, there's that physical urge that is just ridiculously strong. I'm late thirties, she's pushing 40. And I feel like a teenager when it comes to the hormones. Now, by most people's standards, we have a really good sex life. We have sex once or twice a week, on average. That's pretty good for people who work and have a house full of kids. We make it happen, in part thanks to her awesome attitude about it. And it's not like she doesn't enjoy it - she has orgasms as often as I do, and once she gets going she really enjoys it. But it takes effort to "get her going," whereas I'm pretty much always ready to go.
Here's something that I know shouldn't matter but does: I was a virgin when we got together. She wasn't. So she's the only partner I've ever had. So one of the things I'm constantly battling is this notion that I'm "missing something" - which intellectually I know isn't the case, but it nags at the back of my mind. I also struggle with jealousy, that she got to experience things I didn't.
Also: I know one of the time-tested bits of advice usually given is exercise, but paradoxically, when I go through periods of fitness/nutrition, all of this gets much more intense - I guess because of all of the testosterone and emphasis on physicality. So those are things I do and need to do anyway, but just please understand that "get more exercise" isn't helpful in this case.
I masturbate as often as is practical, but that doesn't really move the needle. To me, that's something different entirely, and doesn't satisfy the desire for skin-on-skin intimacy.
So, then: How can I adjust my libido and expectations down into the realm of reality? How do I approach/conquer the notion that I should be getting more (sex/affection/etc.)? How can I make this mean less to me, depress me less, bother me less?
But it takes effort to "get her going," whereas I'm pretty much always ready to go.
That statement confuses me. It almost sounds like you don't enjoy the part of sex that includes "get[ting] her going". Which is foreplay, an awesome part of sex. Or do you only enjoy the part of sex where your penis is in her vagina and then you come? Sorry, I don't want to sound like I am attacking you but measuring the success of your sex life by the number of orgasms she has seems a very simplistic view of a mature sexual relationship.
My standard trope in complaints about a woman's low libido is also that for many women, housework is foreplay. If can go out for the night with her friends and come home to a completely clean house, laundry folded and put away, clean sheets on the bed, and nice touches like flowers or a new framed photo of the family on the wall, children homeworked, fed and put to bed, gas in the car and a husband genuinely thrilled to see her then you will have the fuck of your life that night. Of course, you may be too exhausted to enjoy it.
posted by saucysault at 8:06 AM on October 27, 2009 [21 favorites]
That statement confuses me. It almost sounds like you don't enjoy the part of sex that includes "get[ting] her going". Which is foreplay, an awesome part of sex. Or do you only enjoy the part of sex where your penis is in her vagina and then you come? Sorry, I don't want to sound like I am attacking you but measuring the success of your sex life by the number of orgasms she has seems a very simplistic view of a mature sexual relationship.
My standard trope in complaints about a woman's low libido is also that for many women, housework is foreplay. If can go out for the night with her friends and come home to a completely clean house, laundry folded and put away, clean sheets on the bed, and nice touches like flowers or a new framed photo of the family on the wall, children homeworked, fed and put to bed, gas in the car and a husband genuinely thrilled to see her then you will have the fuck of your life that night. Of course, you may be too exhausted to enjoy it.
posted by saucysault at 8:06 AM on October 27, 2009 [21 favorites]
That's not just snark-- I bring that up because there are other red flags that you're still dealing with some resentment/entitlement, or fantasies about what you might be having outside the marriage, or what could have been, instead of staying grounded in what is. And it sounds like what you've got is pretty great. It's not, "what I would be having if I was 25 and single and not a virgin", but happiness and a willing, enthusiastic partner are nothing to be dismissed that easily. What else could the two of you be doing to make things better for you, within THIS relationship with THIS individual? Come up with a concrete list.
posted by availablelight at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by availablelight at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Is this totally about libido or is it about intimacy/affection in general?
Maybe think about what it is you really are craving. I am guessing it isn't just sex.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2009
Maybe think about what it is you really are craving. I am guessing it isn't just sex.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2009
One last thought: if this is your first sexual relationship, you might have a skewed idea of what's "normal" for long-term sexual intimacy, or even typical female response (in regards to your comment on how long it takes for her to become aroused). Do you have any married/partnered male friends you can trust enough to compare notes with?
posted by availablelight at 8:19 AM on October 27, 2009
posted by availablelight at 8:19 AM on October 27, 2009
I'll call myself out and admit that I've quoted this really useful advice in AskMe before, but reading maybe that thread will help you, too.
A very wise person once told me that some people require sex to feel intimacy, and some people require intimacy to desire sex. It sounds like perhaps you and your wife are coming from opposite ends of that spectrum.
Now, by most people's standards, we have a really good sex life. We have sex once or twice a week, on average. That's pretty good for people who work and have a house full of kids. We make it happen, in part thanks to her awesome attitude about it.
It's pretty great that you've met each other in the middle as much as you have, but it sounds like it's time for another talk and another plan for both of you. What was working for awhile isn't doing it anymore. Talk to your wife. Maybe the two of you can change tactics.
posted by juliplease at 8:52 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
A very wise person once told me that some people require sex to feel intimacy, and some people require intimacy to desire sex. It sounds like perhaps you and your wife are coming from opposite ends of that spectrum.
Now, by most people's standards, we have a really good sex life. We have sex once or twice a week, on average. That's pretty good for people who work and have a house full of kids. We make it happen, in part thanks to her awesome attitude about it.
It's pretty great that you've met each other in the middle as much as you have, but it sounds like it's time for another talk and another plan for both of you. What was working for awhile isn't doing it anymore. Talk to your wife. Maybe the two of you can change tactics.
posted by juliplease at 8:52 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Is it a sex issue or is it an intimacy/affection issue? I ask because doesn't satisfy the desire for skin-on-skin intimacy and I should be getting more (sex/affection/etc.) triggered alarm bells.
When I was with someone who was sparing with most forms of physical affection (cuddling, hand-holding, non-mouth kisses), my libido was through the roof, because it seemed like sex was the only way I could get close to him. Now, I'm with someone who likes to be in constant physical contact, and my libido has settled down a little bit, because there are other routes to intimacy.
Try cuddling/touching/being naked together more, and see if even non-sexy skin-on-skin contact might fulfill at least some of your intimacy needs.
posted by coppermoss at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
When I was with someone who was sparing with most forms of physical affection (cuddling, hand-holding, non-mouth kisses), my libido was through the roof, because it seemed like sex was the only way I could get close to him. Now, I'm with someone who likes to be in constant physical contact, and my libido has settled down a little bit, because there are other routes to intimacy.
Try cuddling/touching/being naked together more, and see if even non-sexy skin-on-skin contact might fulfill at least some of your intimacy needs.
posted by coppermoss at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
I hate to break it to you, but what you've got is as good as you're going to get. Sex without intimacy and love is fun, but in the end, it's just getting your rocks off. I agree with a lot of the answers above - especially about the reasons that people have sex. My advice is to look at your life in its entirety and realize that sex isn't the only way to feel loved. Getting it twice a week after 20 years of marriage would be a fabulous dream for many. I think it's time for you to count your blessings.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
The only way you are going to have sex with other people without being an asshole is talking to your wife about being in some kind of open relationship. Lots of people do this successfully, but many fail as well. it requires extremely good communication.
posted by afu at 9:32 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by afu at 9:32 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
But it takes effort to "get her going," whereas I'm pretty much always ready to go.
This really jumped out at me, and makes you sound like you don't realize that good sex requires effort, and that's not a bad thing. Foreplay is fun! All the steps leading up to intercourse can be just as mind-blowing as intercourse. Frankly,I think you'll be hard pressed to find a partner who is good to go every time you are. While I think you would be (or are) missing out by rushing foreplay, have you tried anticipatory flirting with your wife? A naughty text, an unexpected email detailing the dream you had last night, and things along those lines, are just another form of foreplay and might result in a quicker culmination of your intimacy.
posted by katemcd at 9:33 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
This really jumped out at me, and makes you sound like you don't realize that good sex requires effort, and that's not a bad thing. Foreplay is fun! All the steps leading up to intercourse can be just as mind-blowing as intercourse. Frankly,I think you'll be hard pressed to find a partner who is good to go every time you are. While I think you would be (or are) missing out by rushing foreplay, have you tried anticipatory flirting with your wife? A naughty text, an unexpected email detailing the dream you had last night, and things along those lines, are just another form of foreplay and might result in a quicker culmination of your intimacy.
posted by katemcd at 9:33 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
As to your jealousy, her experiences were before she was with you and did not involve either cheating or lying to you. You should hold yourself to the same standard.
posted by saucysault at 9:40 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 9:40 AM on October 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
nthing what some folks have said about non-penetrative intimacy. I was hearing the same things in your post that they did, sort of reading between the lines.
Try just doing the foreplay. Seriously. Just skin on skin, and have fun without any pressure - on either of you. Cuddling is not overrated. Wild animal sex is great, but it's just sex. Intimacy...now that is mind-blowing. Also, you might find the wife more responsive, even a little happier, with this approach.
If you want to think of it in a sexual fashion, try a form of "orgasm denial" - it's considered a practice in the kink scene - so while you are lying there, feeling her close, and you as hard as a rock..remember what you are doing is not "vanilla" it's "really kinky". I find that helps.
posted by Xoebe at 10:34 AM on October 27, 2009
Try just doing the foreplay. Seriously. Just skin on skin, and have fun without any pressure - on either of you. Cuddling is not overrated. Wild animal sex is great, but it's just sex. Intimacy...now that is mind-blowing. Also, you might find the wife more responsive, even a little happier, with this approach.
If you want to think of it in a sexual fashion, try a form of "orgasm denial" - it's considered a practice in the kink scene - so while you are lying there, feeling her close, and you as hard as a rock..remember what you are doing is not "vanilla" it's "really kinky". I find that helps.
posted by Xoebe at 10:34 AM on October 27, 2009
First of all, there is nothing wrong with feeling that sex gives you intimacy in the relationship. For many--mostly men, it does. There is no reason to *conquer the notion* that you should be getting more sex/affection. It is what it is.
Second, why are you (alone) in therapy and not you (as a couple)? This is a therapy issue that should be worked out as a couple, no?
posted by teg4rvn at 11:05 AM on October 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Second, why are you (alone) in therapy and not you (as a couple)? This is a therapy issue that should be worked out as a couple, no?
posted by teg4rvn at 11:05 AM on October 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
There is no reason to *conquer the notion* that you should be getting more sex/affection.
That sounds like anyone in a relationship should be able to demand more sex/affection regardless of the impact on the other person or perhaps their own role in why they are not getting the sex/intimacy they demand. Entitlement breeds resentment. Yes, there is nothing wrong with feeling that sex gives you intimacy, but it is wrong to expect your partner to share that same view.
Maybe it comes down to the love languages, he prefers to get (and give) love in the form of physical touch but maybe his partner shows her love though acts of service or gifts (or the other LL I forget). They are both expressing love in the way most comfortable to themselves but the partner is not understanding the depth of feeling behind the expression of love.
posted by saucysault at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2009
That sounds like anyone in a relationship should be able to demand more sex/affection regardless of the impact on the other person or perhaps their own role in why they are not getting the sex/intimacy they demand. Entitlement breeds resentment. Yes, there is nothing wrong with feeling that sex gives you intimacy, but it is wrong to expect your partner to share that same view.
Maybe it comes down to the love languages, he prefers to get (and give) love in the form of physical touch but maybe his partner shows her love though acts of service or gifts (or the other LL I forget). They are both expressing love in the way most comfortable to themselves but the partner is not understanding the depth of feeling behind the expression of love.
posted by saucysault at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2009
I will second the open relationship remark. You didn't mention if that's an option or not, but I do wonder if she'd be happier if you got your rocks off elsewhere rather than only depending on her and her infrequent libido to get you off. But if she insists on monogamy and infrequent sex, well...I think I've seen threads here before on what medications zap your sex drive.
I mainly say this because after 20 years, I kind of doubt her physical interests are gonna change drastically here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:13 PM on October 27, 2009
I mainly say this because after 20 years, I kind of doubt her physical interests are gonna change drastically here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:13 PM on October 27, 2009
@saucysault
The OP wants more sex. He's entitled to ask for it from his partner. This is not a *notion* that needs to be *conquered* It is a problem to be worked out preferably in couples counseling, not alone with a counselor who apparently has accomplished making him feel guilty about wanting frequent sex.
posted by teg4rvn at 2:03 PM on October 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
The OP wants more sex. He's entitled to ask for it from his partner. This is not a *notion* that needs to be *conquered* It is a problem to be worked out preferably in couples counseling, not alone with a counselor who apparently has accomplished making him feel guilty about wanting frequent sex.
posted by teg4rvn at 2:03 PM on October 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
teg4rvn (what am I missing? how is that pronounced?) I have a hard time believing it is helpful in a relationship to feel entitled to ask for whatever you want, OP : "I should get more sex/affection". He ISN'T entitled to more sex unilaterally, any more than I can demand my husband cook dinner each night. THAT notion, that his relationship is a dictatorship instead of a democracy, is what he is asking for help about - he recognises himself that his attitude of entitlement to sex on his schedule is impeding him appreciating his current relationship. Where do you get that the counsellor made him feel guilty?
The OP says themself that they have unrealistic expectations of the frequency of sex considering they both work and have at least two young children. Good sex take time and energy. Most working mothers would be hard pressed to find two non-fatigued hours a day free for sex every day of the week, especially if they were not initiating it out of their own desire.
He has already said that sex was used by him solely to boost his self-esteem, which is not healthy, and he seems to resent the effort to make sex enjoyable for his wife. Maybe she prefers quality sex to quantity, maybe every hug she gives him turns into a groping session, maybe she has kinks he isn't into; we have no way of knowing her side of the story. And I can tell you from personal experience the fastest libido killer out there is pressure TO FUCK ME RIGHT NOW. In a past relationship, the constant pressure to have sex on my partner's schedule overwhelmed my own libido and made me shut down as a protective measure. Pressure to have sex is profoundly unsexy; as is any conversation that starts with I need more sex so if you won't give it to me when I want I am going outside our relationship and it is all your fault.
The people recommending an open relationship are neglecting to mention what a minefield the topic can be, and for some people even the suggestion of it would be a deal-breaker, or at least permanently change the relationship. I know of at least one relationship where the husband complained of not enough sex, the wife complained of not enough energy to enjoy sex (because of his lack of help with chores and children) and a lack of non-sexual attention from the husband. So the husband suggested he do spend less time at home, and he'll get himself a girlfriend to take to dinner at fancy restaurants and fuck. Yeah, that suggestion didn't go over well. I doubt your wife is a naif that is ignorant of rub'n'tugs, hookers or swinging. If the suggestion isn't coming from her I wouldn't even go there ("It's the perfect gift honey - I get the happy ending, you get the warts! Sorry I can't buy you a nicer mother's day present but I blew my paycheque on Amber").
As with any conflict in life, you can use the carrot or the stick. Carrots work better in relationships, which is what the OP sounds like he is more inclined to; especially if this is the mid-life crisis that many 40 year old men go through. A twenty-year relationship with your soulmate and mother of your children would be foolishly thrown away because sex twice week isn't enough; it isn't like there is a huge number of women out there willing to have sex twice a day with a middle-aged divorced dad for free. Ultimately, we all have to recognise that the choices we make limit our other options, and make peace with the closing of doors and choose to age gracefully, appreciating the truly irreplaceable things in our lives.
posted by saucysault at 4:42 PM on October 27, 2009 [12 favorites]
The OP says themself that they have unrealistic expectations of the frequency of sex considering they both work and have at least two young children. Good sex take time and energy. Most working mothers would be hard pressed to find two non-fatigued hours a day free for sex every day of the week, especially if they were not initiating it out of their own desire.
He has already said that sex was used by him solely to boost his self-esteem, which is not healthy, and he seems to resent the effort to make sex enjoyable for his wife. Maybe she prefers quality sex to quantity, maybe every hug she gives him turns into a groping session, maybe she has kinks he isn't into; we have no way of knowing her side of the story. And I can tell you from personal experience the fastest libido killer out there is pressure TO FUCK ME RIGHT NOW. In a past relationship, the constant pressure to have sex on my partner's schedule overwhelmed my own libido and made me shut down as a protective measure. Pressure to have sex is profoundly unsexy; as is any conversation that starts with I need more sex so if you won't give it to me when I want I am going outside our relationship and it is all your fault.
The people recommending an open relationship are neglecting to mention what a minefield the topic can be, and for some people even the suggestion of it would be a deal-breaker, or at least permanently change the relationship. I know of at least one relationship where the husband complained of not enough sex, the wife complained of not enough energy to enjoy sex (because of his lack of help with chores and children) and a lack of non-sexual attention from the husband. So the husband suggested he do spend less time at home, and he'll get himself a girlfriend to take to dinner at fancy restaurants and fuck. Yeah, that suggestion didn't go over well. I doubt your wife is a naif that is ignorant of rub'n'tugs, hookers or swinging. If the suggestion isn't coming from her I wouldn't even go there ("It's the perfect gift honey - I get the happy ending, you get the warts! Sorry I can't buy you a nicer mother's day present but I blew my paycheque on Amber").
As with any conflict in life, you can use the carrot or the stick. Carrots work better in relationships, which is what the OP sounds like he is more inclined to; especially if this is the mid-life crisis that many 40 year old men go through. A twenty-year relationship with your soulmate and mother of your children would be foolishly thrown away because sex twice week isn't enough; it isn't like there is a huge number of women out there willing to have sex twice a day with a middle-aged divorced dad for free. Ultimately, we all have to recognise that the choices we make limit our other options, and make peace with the closing of doors and choose to age gracefully, appreciating the truly irreplaceable things in our lives.
posted by saucysault at 4:42 PM on October 27, 2009 [12 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
So in other words, you're almost the same age, but you've chosen the more pejorative description for her?
posted by availablelight at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2009 [73 favorites]