Find me a good cheap soprano sax!
October 25, 2009 7:39 PM Subscribe
Is the soprano sax a good instrument for a 10 year old, and how am I going to find a reasonable quality instrument for her under $400 dollars?
I'm in Australia so while I reckon there are probably some bargains to be had in the USA through Ebay I'd have to get an instrument like that sight unseen. I play the alto sax by the way, but I'm sure that such a big instrument is too heavy for her. She tried the clarinet, and was OK, but with a sax player already in the house I reckon the saxophone is a better instrument.
I'm in Australia so while I reckon there are probably some bargains to be had in the USA through Ebay I'd have to get an instrument like that sight unseen. I play the alto sax by the way, but I'm sure that such a big instrument is too heavy for her. She tried the clarinet, and was OK, but with a sax player already in the house I reckon the saxophone is a better instrument.
I'd probably say that soprano sax isn't the the best starting instrument for a 10 year old. It's much harder to get a good sound or feel successful at it, especially in that air support and embouchure are much more vital to making it work.
You say that you think that alto sax is too big, but I was kind of a gangly kid, and managed to pick up Alto Sax around that time - the neck strap is a great way to take some of the weight off of their hands, and makes the whole thing much more manageable. I've seen 12 year old girls pick up tuba just fine (with a few adjustments), so I have no reason to believe that alto wouldn't work just swimmingly.
Baring that, clarinet (if you want to keep her on reeded instrument), or flute. Flute has similar fingerings to sax (sort of), so that'd at least be in the ballpark. Clarinet is slightly different in the lower octave, but very learnable.
posted by SNWidget at 7:55 PM on October 25, 2009
You say that you think that alto sax is too big, but I was kind of a gangly kid, and managed to pick up Alto Sax around that time - the neck strap is a great way to take some of the weight off of their hands, and makes the whole thing much more manageable. I've seen 12 year old girls pick up tuba just fine (with a few adjustments), so I have no reason to believe that alto wouldn't work just swimmingly.
Baring that, clarinet (if you want to keep her on reeded instrument), or flute. Flute has similar fingerings to sax (sort of), so that'd at least be in the ballpark. Clarinet is slightly different in the lower octave, but very learnable.
posted by SNWidget at 7:55 PM on October 25, 2009
My background, so you know where I'm coming from: I'm working on a PhD in music and played saxophone from junior high through undergrad. I don't play it at all anymore because I'm limited to either jazz (love it but don't play it) or wind ensemble (a LOT of bad music for wind ensemble). I would absolutely love to be able to play in an orchestra, but none of the instruments I play are found in the vast majority of the orchestra repertoire. This makes me sad, so I am biased.
Biased or not, though, the soprano saxophone is probably not a good instrument for a kid to start on, mostly because they are notoriously difficult to play in tune, even on a really expensive instrument. They are also very rarely called for in any music for any type of ensemble besides saxophone quartets, so your kid won't be able to play it in band.
Unless she is really obsessed with the saxophone, I would suggest perhaps an instrument that's a little more versatile. Flute or clarinet is a good idea, and as jacalata says, switching to the sax later would be a breeze from either instrument if your kid wants to.
My suggestion is to have her listen to some great music (in different styles) on several instruments, then take her to the music store and let her try out some different things. Watch to see when her eyes light up, and pick that one. Don't forget about percussion and strings!
posted by nosila at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2009
Biased or not, though, the soprano saxophone is probably not a good instrument for a kid to start on, mostly because they are notoriously difficult to play in tune, even on a really expensive instrument. They are also very rarely called for in any music for any type of ensemble besides saxophone quartets, so your kid won't be able to play it in band.
Unless she is really obsessed with the saxophone, I would suggest perhaps an instrument that's a little more versatile. Flute or clarinet is a good idea, and as jacalata says, switching to the sax later would be a breeze from either instrument if your kid wants to.
My suggestion is to have her listen to some great music (in different styles) on several instruments, then take her to the music store and let her try out some different things. Watch to see when her eyes light up, and pick that one. Don't forget about percussion and strings!
posted by nosila at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2009
Also, there's a reason why most students start out on alto - it's much easier to control. I'm in a music graduate program at the moment, and I watch many excellent alto players struggle with the various quirks of the soprano sax.
posted by SNWidget at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by SNWidget at 7:56 PM on October 25, 2009
P.S. I started playing alto sax at 10 also, and the size was not a problem. I was not a giant at 10, even though I am one now. :)
posted by nosila at 7:57 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by nosila at 7:57 PM on October 25, 2009
You can get a crappy new one for ballpark that figure. It will be crappy, crappy dodgy Chinese factory crappy crap, though (I'm not a sax player, dunno how crap that will be, but e.g I wouldn't buy a trumpet that way - see here for discussion on a crappy but okay brand). My own experience is that crappier brands can sometimes be a bit harder to play.
On the other hand, you should be able to get something around that price second hand from a "real" brand (e.g Selmer, etc). Haunt ebay, ask around at the local large-ish music stores; most of them have notice-boards, you can put up a "wanted", too. No doubt you'll get a bite.
So two choices:
New, crappy,
Old, good.
Whether you think you're daughter will continue to play etc will have an impact on the decision, also those new crappy ones have, like, zero resale value, so that might be a part of it. A good branded 2nd hand sax will be worth as much when you sell as when you bought if you keep it in good nick.
posted by smoke at 8:03 PM on October 25, 2009
On the other hand, you should be able to get something around that price second hand from a "real" brand (e.g Selmer, etc). Haunt ebay, ask around at the local large-ish music stores; most of them have notice-boards, you can put up a "wanted", too. No doubt you'll get a bite.
So two choices:
New, crappy,
Old, good.
Whether you think you're daughter will continue to play etc will have an impact on the decision, also those new crappy ones have, like, zero resale value, so that might be a part of it. A good branded 2nd hand sax will be worth as much when you sell as when you bought if you keep it in good nick.
posted by smoke at 8:03 PM on October 25, 2009
P.P.S. There is good literature for wind band out there, of course! As I said, I am just bitter. :)
posted by nosila at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by nosila at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Nosila briefly touches on the biggest problem: there isn't a lot of music out there which is scored to include a part for the soprano sax. If, when she reaches middle school or high school, she wants to join a band, they probably couldn't use her.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:20 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:20 PM on October 25, 2009
People are giving you good advice in this thread. The big issue for sax players is the size of the hands- if your daughter can reach around the palm keys without a problem, she should be okay. Ten year-olds hands are often just not there yet, however.
The biggest issue with soprano sax is that there's just no place to play it if she ever wants to be part of a group (and, for most kids, that's about 90% of the fun of playing an instrument)- no parts in most band literature, and generally not in jazz band music either.
You will not find an instrument that anyone could have a remotely easy time playing for $400, even on eBay...anything that cheap (or even, likely, under a thousand), even used is going to have bendy cheap keys and be impossible to deal with. As far as I know, they don't make baseline quality soprano saxes at an entry-level price, as they do with other instruments, possibly because no one ever starts on soprano.
You CAN find, for $400, a gently used flute (similar fingerings) or a clarinet (also a reed instrument), or a violin, or a trumpet or any number of other instruments, all of which are playable by a smaller kiddo.
posted by charmedimsure at 8:34 PM on October 25, 2009
The biggest issue with soprano sax is that there's just no place to play it if she ever wants to be part of a group (and, for most kids, that's about 90% of the fun of playing an instrument)- no parts in most band literature, and generally not in jazz band music either.
You will not find an instrument that anyone could have a remotely easy time playing for $400, even on eBay...anything that cheap (or even, likely, under a thousand), even used is going to have bendy cheap keys and be impossible to deal with. As far as I know, they don't make baseline quality soprano saxes at an entry-level price, as they do with other instruments, possibly because no one ever starts on soprano.
You CAN find, for $400, a gently used flute (similar fingerings) or a clarinet (also a reed instrument), or a violin, or a trumpet or any number of other instruments, all of which are playable by a smaller kiddo.
posted by charmedimsure at 8:34 PM on October 25, 2009
Best answer: As a beginner band teacher, i would strongly recommend clarinet. Much more versatility, better size match, and gives you an excellent foundation for switching to saxophone later. We make all our wannabe sax players start on clarinet first--helps weed out who's serious. You can definitely get a clarinet for under $400, probably even quite a good one if you look around. Check Craigslist, or find our if any local high schools are selling off instruments.
posted by Go Banana at 8:48 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by Go Banana at 8:48 PM on October 25, 2009
Seconding all those who are saying that a soprano saxophone is next to useless in beginning wind ensembles. Get her a clarinet, and if she wants to switch to sax later on it's a pretty easy transition - the embouchures aren't too different and there's a lot of similarity in fingering. I personally switched from clarinet to tenor sax at 12 and didn't have a problem at all.
posted by downing street memo at 8:48 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by downing street memo at 8:48 PM on October 25, 2009
Best answer: I don't know what's going on in Australia, but here, very little concert band music is scored with a Soprano Sax part. If by chance a Soprano part is called for, it's usually grabbed by a doubler as the need arises. So I do not recommend that for a ten year old--nothing to do with cost or ergonomics. It just isn't needed that much.
And Nthing the sentiment that you won't find anything playable for under 1K. Sopranos are pricey. End of story that's the way things are it's a fact of life that's just how it is--sorry. At my business we charge 175 to overhaul (pads, springs and corks) a flute or a clarinet. 275 for saxophones. If you get anything used (and this is assuming you've done the right thing and steered clear of the awful unusable Chinese stuff) just assume you will add that to your cost.
But to summarize: Traditionally the Soprano is the secondary instrument of the Tenor player. Rarely, if ever, does anyone start on it and most band literature doesn't even write for it.
posted by sourwookie at 8:53 PM on October 25, 2009
And Nthing the sentiment that you won't find anything playable for under 1K. Sopranos are pricey. End of story that's the way things are it's a fact of life that's just how it is--sorry. At my business we charge 175 to overhaul (pads, springs and corks) a flute or a clarinet. 275 for saxophones. If you get anything used (and this is assuming you've done the right thing and steered clear of the awful unusable Chinese stuff) just assume you will add that to your cost.
But to summarize: Traditionally the Soprano is the secondary instrument of the Tenor player. Rarely, if ever, does anyone start on it and most band literature doesn't even write for it.
posted by sourwookie at 8:53 PM on October 25, 2009
Best answer: My younger brother repairs saxophones -- and flutes, and clarinets, and about any other wind instrument -- and loves doing it. He started out by taking his sax in for repairs (maybe new pads?) and really hitting it off with the old guy -- another musician, super-cool guy who'd played with everyone in the fifties -- doing the repair work in that shop, and he sortof started hanging there, and then he apprenticed there, free, and now he works there. A labor of love. Or something like that. Truly, a perfect job for a musician.
Anyways. I know for a fact that you can buy damn fine saxes (or flutes, or most anything else) for bargain basement prices on eBay, as my brother has done so, lots of people just don't know what they have, maybe their uncle Melvin just died and it was in his attic, whatever. One obvious difference is that my brother is willing and able to repair anything that comes his way. And it is for sure a crap shoot -- sometimes he gets a fine horn, in a great case, a piece of art, sometimes he get's a garbage can, in a junk case, a piece of shit; he never knows until he opens them up.
This is probably a great time to buy -- all of the students who needed a horn at the start of the school year have got one now, and that cuts the market way, way down.
I have no idea how many US folks would be willing to ship to Oz -- maybe on a higher dollar item like this they would; things I've sold (usually a hundred bucks or less) I've always put on the listing that I was not willing to ship out of the country.
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:28 PM on October 25, 2009
Anyways. I know for a fact that you can buy damn fine saxes (or flutes, or most anything else) for bargain basement prices on eBay, as my brother has done so, lots of people just don't know what they have, maybe their uncle Melvin just died and it was in his attic, whatever. One obvious difference is that my brother is willing and able to repair anything that comes his way. And it is for sure a crap shoot -- sometimes he gets a fine horn, in a great case, a piece of art, sometimes he get's a garbage can, in a junk case, a piece of shit; he never knows until he opens them up.
This is probably a great time to buy -- all of the students who needed a horn at the start of the school year have got one now, and that cuts the market way, way down.
I have no idea how many US folks would be willing to ship to Oz -- maybe on a higher dollar item like this they would; things I've sold (usually a hundred bucks or less) I've always put on the listing that I was not willing to ship out of the country.
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:28 PM on October 25, 2009
keys, drums or guitar. Much quicker to small successes, which are the fuel for the fire that is early music learning.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:08 PM on October 25, 2009
posted by Ironmouth at 10:08 PM on October 25, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks all. Clarinet it is then. Although I might discuss the flute with her. Ironmouth: she's got significant experience with the recorder, and has tried out the clarinet, so we're past the total novice stage.
posted by singingfish at 2:26 AM on October 26, 2009
posted by singingfish at 2:26 AM on October 26, 2009
I'm a little late to the party, but - I started off playing alto sax and then switched to soprano during high school. The cool thing about having both to play as you get more into the music is that (IMHO) playing the soprano for practice and my own pleasure made me a better alto player. I took band, and played the alto there, and I took private lessons for the soprano. The fingerings are more or less exactly the same for both instruments, so if she moves on to sax from clarinet (and for me, personally, I found the clarinet to be terminally boring, mostly because I was OBSESSED with sax-based jazz, so YMMV) and is still interested in the soprano, she can use one to practice the other. I could go on about how interesting I found that to be, but I'll spare you. :)
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:37 AM on October 26, 2009
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:37 AM on October 26, 2009
If you're looking to keep the transition from recorder fairly smooth (thereby boosting the learning curve a little), flutes and oboes have nearly identical fingering to a soprano recorder. Oboes, however, do not seem to have a "new, crappy" option.
posted by gnomeloaf at 6:15 AM on October 26, 2009
posted by gnomeloaf at 6:15 AM on October 26, 2009
I hated clarinet the 4 years I played it. Please don't make her play clarinet.
The tone of the instrument echoed in my head, it seems very nasal thinking back. I hated playing with the reed. And you get no good parts in "elementary school band" music.
Looking back 15 years later I would rather have had the violin, even though that was a "girl's instrument," but as she's a girl, problem solved.
posted by phritosan at 10:20 AM on October 26, 2009
The tone of the instrument echoed in my head, it seems very nasal thinking back. I hated playing with the reed. And you get no good parts in "elementary school band" music.
Looking back 15 years later I would rather have had the violin, even though that was a "girl's instrument," but as she's a girl, problem solved.
posted by phritosan at 10:20 AM on October 26, 2009
Looking back 15 years later I would rather have had the violin, even though that was a "girl's instrument," but as she's a girl, problem solved.
posted by phritosan at 12:20 PM
The violin is a "girl's instrument"? Wow. Who knew?
posted by dancestoblue at 3:01 PM on October 26, 2009
posted by phritosan at 12:20 PM
The violin is a "girl's instrument"? Wow. Who knew?
posted by dancestoblue at 3:01 PM on October 26, 2009
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I don't know Sydney, but in Melbourne there are several good music shops where you could pick up an instrument for a reasonable amount. Surely there are a few in Sydney...
posted by jacalata at 7:46 PM on October 25, 2009