All you need is love?

October 21, 2009 9:39 PM

Love is a wonderful thing, how far should one go?

I can't believe this even happened. I wasn't even a real true believe of the whole concept of love before her.

We're in love. This is it. If any other emotion is stronger than this, I believe my head would explode with joy. Just hugging her makes me feel like all of the blood inside my body has been replaced with something quite magical, maybe little pixies?

Now, we have a few things keeping us away from each other. She is married, but has been separated for nearly two years, but still living with her husband, and a lot of roommates, and .. I feel terrible saying this, this all looks terrible, but I'm really not a bad person.. She also has a child.

We both want to be together, but her husband is simply trying to not make that happen. She still loves him, in a non-romantic way, and recently he asked her if I made her happy, and she said yes. He then said he would give her two months rent, and leave her and her child. From what she says, he doesn't seem to care about his child much, he even refuses to watch him.

At this moment, she does not have a job, she stays home and cleans up around the house, which is rather large, and with a lot of people, so cleaning can take quite some time.. and she watches her son. Her car was stolen in the past, and she hasn't had enough money to buy a replacement.

I also don't have a car, due to very bad anxiety when driving. I prefer not to drive and walk/bike around. I do have a stable job, my own studio apartment, and I'm in a overall good financial situation. Not GREAT, but good.

I am willing to do anything to make us happy. I don't care about money. None of it really matters, none of it makes me happy. Am I crazy? Am I silly?

I don't know what to do. This is the most amazing time of my life, and we both agree that we are all we need in our lives to feel complete.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, Thank you.

Note: I'm sorry, I don't visit MetaFilter as much as I should, and I'm not even sure if I should ask here. I just know the community is very intelligent and helpful. I don't even know which category to pick! Eeek!

posted by sanrio to society & culture (38 comments total)

How long have you known this person?
posted by MaryDellamorte at 9:45 PM on October 21 [2 favorites has favorites]

Take a deep breath. If it's really love, it can wait while you sort stuff out and make plans. First, she needs a divorce, child support from her ex, and a way to support herself. She has to make these things happen. You can't.

I don't know how old y'all are, but both of you sound child-like. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can grow up together. But you do need to grow up some.
posted by zinfandel at 9:52 PM on October 21 [3 favorites has favorites]

Could you narrow down the question at all?

All I see are:
- How far should one go?
- Am I crazy?
- Am I silly?

Is there any specific problem you are trying to solve, like how to deal with the kindof-ex-husband? How to live with a child but no car?
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:53 PM on October 21

If all the details you omitted here are any indication, you really are not considering the whole picture and should proceed with extreme caution.
posted by hermitosis at 9:55 PM on October 21 [7 favorites has favorites]

Also, never believe all the bad things someone says about their ex, especially if he/she still happens to be in the picture for some reason.
posted by hermitosis at 9:57 PM on October 21 [6 favorites has favorites]

Seems like you have a case of rose-colored glasses. After reading your post, she doesn't seem like a quality girl at all. She has a family (which isn't bad, just complicates things), no job, and she's been living with a man she's "un-romantically in love with".

I know that feeling though, that it just feels right, some people call it oneitis, here is one persons guide on curing it.
posted by Taft at 9:57 PM on October 21 [1 favorite has favorites]

She is married, but has been separated for nearly two years, but still living with her husband

That really doesn't meet any standard of "separation" (legal or otherwise) of which I'm aware. Big red flag.

I don't want to harsh on all the great emotions you're experiencing, but please don't rush into any big decisions, especially when a child is involved.
posted by scatter gather at 9:57 PM on October 21 [12 favorites has favorites]

Rather than saying do/don't do whatever, I'll just advise running the numbers. You're going to have to take care of (read: pay for everything for) her and her child and you should figure out if you can afford that -- from a SURVIVAL perspective.

Then, think about what you want to do.

I'm with you, I don't really care about money either. Until, that is, I don't have enough to buy the things I need to keep me healthy and whole. So while it really is just one data point that should go into your overall consideration set, it's a nontrivial one.

Good luck.
posted by hapax_legomenon at 10:15 PM on October 21 [2 favorites has favorites]

What you're feeling is actually called Limerence
posted by delmoi at 10:21 PM on October 21 [7 favorites has favorites]

We both want to be together, but her husband is simply trying to not make that happen. She still loves him, in a non-romantic way, and recently he asked her if I made her happy, and she said yes. He then said he would give her two months rent, and leave her and her child. From what she says, he doesn't seem to care about his child much, he even refuses to watch him.

Obviously, it's not really his choice if he pays for the kid or not. If she actually gets a divorce, she can hit him up for child support later. If he's really that uninvolved it won't be hard to win. Also, the fact that he's kicking her and the kid out of the house is a pretty boneheaded move on his part. Family court won't be pleased. Just make sure she actually gets a divorce.

Plus, from your description, he's already kicked her out. So, it sounds like the decision has already been made. Since that's the case you can't blame yourself if anything goes wrong, right?
posted by delmoi at 10:42 PM on October 21 [1 favorite has favorites]

scatter gather: That really doesn't meet any standard of "separation" (legal or otherwise) of which I'm aware. Big red flag.

It's actually common in families where one spouse has never worked outside the home, has few marketable skills and no money. I'm not saying it's not indicative of control issues in the marriage or that it's healthy, but I can tell you that it happens way more than you think.

Sanrio, who's house is it and who are the other people in it? Are you both in Texas, at least? And just to double triple check... have you met in real life?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:45 PM on October 21

Not to burst your bliss bubble, but you're basically saying that you've found this perfect person, this perfect relationship...except for this one thing. And this one other thing. And this other thing that prevents those first things from being resolved. What really seems to be happening here is that the perfection you see is more like a perfect storm of the qualities in a person that make you see pixies. So I would proceed with caution, as others have said, because the person you're falling for is unavailable in ways that aren't entirely obvious, but could manifest into a whole heap of trouble before long.

Also, reading this:

Now, we have a few things keeping us away from each other. She is married, but has been separated for nearly two years, but still living with her husband...

It doesn't sound like she and her husband are the ones who are separated.

Best of luck to you both, and please GO SLOWLY, SAVOR THE PIXIES, AND DO NOT PROCEED TO SQUARE TWO.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:53 PM on October 21 [3 favorites has favorites]

Am I crazy? Am I silly?

Yes to both. That's just what love does in Round 1. It's a chemical thing; like a lot of other psychoactive chemicals, one of the symptoms is that stuff other than the chemical buzz becomes heavily de-prioritized.

So, you're not in a good rational headspace to be making long-term, life affecting decisions right now. Don't do that until the buzz has come down a few notches.

Meanwhile, pay as much attention to the ride as you can. Being in love is good value.
posted by flabdablet at 12:17 AM on October 22 [3 favorites has favorites]

He then said he would give her two months rent, and leave her and her child.

If I am reading this right. He is going to pay her rent and then he is going to vacate. If this is the case, then she has 2 months to figure out how to pay the rent.

Sounds like a tumultuous time to get together. Have fun, it sounds like there are a lot of things that can go wrong. But they don't have to.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 1:42 AM on October 22

Things NOT to do when you are in this disney-chemical state:

1. Move in with somebody
2. Financially support somebody
3. Get deeply entangled in the life of their child

Remember, both people in a relationship have to make an effort, and just because you're head-over-heels doesn't mean you should make ALL the effort. In fact, if you do you're setting yourself up for a fall.

You say: We both want to be together, but her husband is simply trying to not make that happen.

What does that mean? You want to spend time together, but her husband does not want you in their shared house? In which case, she needs to find a way to become self-supporting and move out. Is she making any kind of effort to do this? Is she looking for a place and a job? Is she investigating her child support options?

If she's not willing to make an effort, then the absolute worst thing that you can do is make up for that by doing all the footwork yourself. Just because you are in love, does not mean you have to be a doormat.

If she IS making an effort, then you can be supportive of that and perhaps look for some more specific and practical help with the problems of becoming financially self-sufficient and getting her own place. Then your relationship can progress on its own terms rather than having its pace dictated by her husband and her living situation.

Also, you might like to ask her why she has not got a divorce.
posted by emilyw at 2:49 AM on October 22

Are you really in love? Apply my patented Love Test to find out. Then come back and we'll talk some more.

OK, so you've read that comment and you've worked out you're in love. Jump to the paragraph entitled "YES, I'M IN LOVE WOOT!". Otherwise, read on for "HMMM, NOW I'M NOT SO SURE I AM, ACTUALLY."

HMMM, NOW I'M NOT SO SURE I AM, ACTUALLY...

So you may possibly just be head over heels in lust with this woman, or possibly the seeds of love are growing. But man, what a sticky situation.

The only thing you can do is go with what you both feel is right, in your guts.

Why hasn't she yet taken up her husbands offer? Sounds to me like it's a pretty sweet deal given the circumstance. I say she should take up her husbands offer, get the rent money and leave and then she and the kid move in with you. One of her first priorities should be to get a job, if she can, to help support the new family you'll be creating, even if its just part time or casual at first. Maybe she can work nights and you look after the kid while she's at work.

Sounds to me though like you two haven't been together all that long. If so, ignore the rest of this paragraph but if I'm right, don't move in together yet, especially if a kid is involved. Your relationship needs time to grow before that happens, and you and the kid need to form a relationship too. Of course, again, that's hard without her working, but I don't see why you can't help out in the manner I described above. If love is truly blossoming, this is the least you'd expect to do for her.

I'M IN LOVE WOOT!

Speaking as a dude who just married the woman he loves, go as far as you need to, if you do indeed love her. Love is totally, totally worth it and it conquers all. Best of luck, mate.
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:01 AM on October 22

How and when did the two of you meet? And how old is the child in question?
posted by houseofdanie at 4:40 AM on October 22

I wasn't even a real true believer of the whole concept of love before her.

Yes, that's how it works. Congratulations: you are lucky.

Now, to move forward without causing a train wreck, can you make these two deals?

(1) To your girlfriend: "I will be here to take care of you and Bobby for a long, long time, even if things are crappy sometimes... and you can count on that. In return, you have to agree to get a job of some kind, even if it's waitressing at midnight or working at McDonald's while Bobby's in school. Anything, so that we're doing this together."

(2) To you yourself, and nobody else: I won't be a six-month fake father that leaves everyone in worse shape than I found them. I will not do that.

If you can say both of these things and mean them, and if she agrees to her part of the first agreement... then jump in with both feet and enjoy the best thing that life has to offer.
posted by rokusan at 4:43 AM on October 22 [2 favorites has favorites]

I'm a little concerned about some things you wrote in your previous Askme:
I just recently turned 23....I don't plan to have any children...I'm considering going to a college or university for the first time...

That was almost a year ago; have you made any decisions about college? And what about your statement regarding kids? I realize your stance may have changed, but think long and hard about it before you get any more involved with this woman. The needs of the child will ALWAYS come first. Are you prepared to be a father to him and not just a boyfriend/husband to his mother?

You are young. You have a lot of decisions to make about your own future. Please think this through carefully.
posted by yawper at 7:33 AM on October 22

You're only 23? That tempers my advice a bit.

It's still very possible this is the right relationship for the next 30 years for you: love happens randomly, and that means it's just as likely at 23 as 33... or 73. (Chance doesn't take 'readiness' into account, and it won't wait until you feel like it.)

But at 23... well, I'm not sure I would have trusted myself to even know what I wanted yet. If this is your first real relationship... double warning. What are you comparing your feelings to here?
posted by rokusan at 7:43 AM on October 22

DarlingBri, you posted:
scatter gather: That really doesn't meet any standard of "separation" (legal or otherwise) of which I'm aware. Big red flag.

It's actually common in families where one spouse has never worked outside the home, has few marketable skills and no money. I'm not saying it's not indicative of control issues in the marriage or that it's healthy, but I can tell you that it happens way more than you think.

I think you are talking about a colloquial usage of "separated", which is completely different from the legal usage in divorce, custody, alimony, and child support cases.

scatter gather is mostly correct: she is not separated (in any of the states I've lived in), unless (in IL, at least) she can prove she has not shared a bedroom with him for the entire period of the separation. Difficulty: he can claim otherwise; it's his word against hers.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:49 AM on October 22

I would be cautious too. It sounds like a situation where you might be vulnerable to manipulation by one or both of these people who are not truly separated.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 8:41 AM on October 22 [1 favorite has favorites]

"She is married, but has been separated for nearly two years, but still living with her husband" ... "she does not have a job, she stays home and cleans up around the house ... and she watches her son"

She is married. She lives with her husband and their child. He financially supports her as his housewife.

She's not "separated," she's cheating.

"We both want to be together, but her husband is simply trying to not make that happen."

Well, yeah. Most people don't want their spouses to abandon them to run off with a lover.

"Am I crazy?"

Yes. And I'm not saying that to be snarky or mean. Right now your brain is a big mess of chemicals and impulses that very closely resembles that of a manic-depressive in the mania phase, or someone suffering from OCD, or someone who just snorted a hit of cocaine.

Please, I implore you to read this article (originally published in The Economist magazine) for some perspective on why you're feeling like this: http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/love-science.html

"We're in love. This is it. If any other emotion is stronger than this, I believe my head would explode with joy."

Sadly, this form of love is a form of temporary insanity. Temporary. Eventually, it will fade, and you will come to your senses and realize what a mess you've gotten yourself into with this woman -- your own description of the situation makes her sound like an unstable user incapable of forming a long-term committed bond.

"She still loves him, in a non-romantic way"

One day she will become bored with you too.

The sane thing for you to do would be to run far, far away from this woman, but you sound too far gone to still be capable of doing the sane thing. However, if there is some small part of you left in there still capable of rational thought (posting this AskMe suggests that there is), please do what you can to preemptively mitigate the damage she'll do to your life when the inevitable happens: Do NOT get her pregnant, and do NOT co-sign any large debts with her.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:53 AM on October 22 [4 favorites has favorites]

[Some comments removed. You're welcome to sleuth and let that inform your responses to users here, but once it's an on-site dossier explicitly linking information on folks' intentionally-not-indexed user pages with their public stuff on site we're pretty much in no-go territory. Take it up with the OP in private or discuss the implications in here if that's something you want to do, but don't do it like that.]
posted by cortex at 12:31 PM on October 22

@Cortex: Everything I linked is on the public internet and was accessible by simply clicking through a series of links voluntarily posted by the OP and the cheating woman.

@Everyone else: Cliff Notes version of what Cortex deleted: The situation as described seemed fishy to me, so I did some clicking, and found that the OP and woman in question are both big fat liars. The woman is not "separated" in any sense of the word -- she is married and publicly acknowledged her marriage/husband as recently as 10 days ago. The OP knows that she's really married, not separated, and he's having an affair with her anyway. My deleted comments documented these facts with quotes from and links to OP's and woman's tweets, profiles, and online journal entries.

OP and woman are both crazy idiots and this is going to be a huge trainwreck that screws up four people's lives (OP, woman, woman's husband, their baby).

@OP: Shame on you.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:08 PM on October 22 [4 favorites has favorites]

@Cortex: Everything I linked is on the public internet and was accessible by simply clicking through a series of links voluntarily posted by the OP and the cheating woman.

Which is beside the point, but it's more of an email or Metatalk discussion than something we should hash out here, feel free to drop me a line if you want to go into detail about it.
posted by cortex at 2:45 PM on October 22

A lot of good and questionable advice has been given, and I appreciate everyone for the help.

I guess we're both crazy idiots. Isn't that sweet?

She told me that she wouldn't even feel right taking her child away from the home she currently lives in, the roommates are like family to the child, plus the father is there. I slightly made the father look like a bad person in my question, but he really isn't.

She's considering moving in with me, getting a job that's near my apartment, and then us working out things from there. I live near a lot of possible places for employment, all within walking distance, and if she has bad luck, I am willing to get a mode of transportation for her, that we could both use when needed. A divorce would also happen at this point.
posted by sanrio at 3:04 PM on October 22

So, you're not just breaking up a marriage, you're also getting a mother to abandon her child.

Please do drop me a line in a year and tell me if it was worth it.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:28 PM on October 22 [1 favorite has favorites]

@Jacqueline The child will not be left on a curb, he will be left with people that love and care for him. She will not pretend like she doesn't have a child, she will still be the mother, but just at a distance for the time being.

I'll try to drop you a line, too. But I may be too busy living in the Wonderland that we have created! :)
posted by sanrio at 3:37 PM on October 22

Actually, this is what she said:

"I get it, you think I'm crazy, you think she's crazy, but let's pretend for a secound, and just bear with me here, but let's pretend for a second that there is a girl who married a guy to make him happy. Who had kids with this man to make him happy, and who had been living in the home with him all this time make him happy. Until one day she met me, and now, really wants to be happy herself with me. She's trying to do this, I'm trying to do this. Now, going in from that angle, where she's not someone who is goinng to leave me and run at first notice, try and give me some advice on the matter. Also, she doesn't want kids anymore, so hush."

Well, I'm done with this post. I'll leave with this:

"I would rather live my life in a state of constant failure, than live my life in fear of failing."
posted by sanrio at 3:51 PM on October 22

The child will not be left on a curb, he will be left with people that love and care for him. She will not pretend like she doesn't have a child, she will still be the mother, but just at a distance for the time being.

Wait, so she's going to leave the child with the father (who doesn't want to spend time with it or be involved in its life) and some roommates. Who's going to raise the kid!? This seems very selfish on both your parts.
posted by Bunglegirl at 4:01 PM on October 22 [1 favorite has favorites]

Probably this is Metatalk stuff, but here I go....

@sanrio - You don't get bonus points for misleading the MetaFilter community about the true facts of your situation, and therefore manipulating some of us into posting comments that support the (poor) life decisions you are making.

Jacqueline did you a favor by linking all of that information together and re-printing it here for your careful consideration. By your own admission ("besting" iamkimiam's answer) you are not thinking clearly right now. In fact, most of the people on this thread have counseled caution or have told you outright this is a mistake. You did notice this, right?

BTW -- Excellent reference to Alice's Adventures in Wonderland in your previous follow-up. In fact, you are enjoying a fantasy right now! Which is sorta OK... until people get hurt. I'm thinking of the baby, specifically.

The first few years of a baby's life are super important. This is pretty much the number one worst time for a child to be abandoned by it's mother.

You've made it clear neither you, nor the baby's mother, are too terribly interested in the kid. So I'll move on to my next point...

I think what you've become enthralled with is some sort of mirror-reflection of your ideal partner or "true love." When this fails and folks get hurt by the fallout (and somebody will get hurt here, and possibly all of you will -- there's no way around it) I humbly suggest you consider some kind of therapy. There are plenty of low cost options available if you don't have insurance. Google around for options in your area when the time comes.

Best.

PS -- Please don't let your ego about this whole thing stand in your way if/when you decide you need some kind of guidance to deal with the after-math. We've all made these kinds of mistakes and learned from them. Why else do you think we posted to this thread, hmmm?




posted by jbenben at 4:37 PM on October 22 [2 favorites has favorites]

sanrio , the very first line of your original question asked this: "how far should one go?"

And we, the AskMetaFilter community, are basically ALL saying this: not this far, not this fast, alarm bells are ringing, something is wrong. There is no rush here, there is no cause for all these things to be happening so soon, there is an order to things that you could be following. Real Love waits, infatuation doesn't.

And yet you seem determined to ignore or dismiss every one of our answers, too caught up in your Wonderland. So why, I ask, did you even bother posting this question in the first place? What's the point of posting this whole long thing on AskMeFi if you ignore every answer to your question?

I guess we're both crazy idiots. Isn't that sweet?

If it was just you two, then sure, fine, whatever. But there is a child and a husband involved here. In that context, what you are talking about doing is not just some romantic adventure, it's breaking up a marriage (whether it's a happy one or not, that's not the point) and child abandonment (whether you think it's okay or not, that's not the point).

As Jacqueline said, shame on you. "[S]tate of constant failure" indeed. What a callous, selfish, stupid person you are.
posted by Asparagirl at 5:03 PM on October 22 [4 favorites has favorites]

She told me that she wouldn't even feel right taking her child away from the home she currently lives in, the roommates are like family to the child, plus the father is there.

He then said he would give her two months rent, and leave her and her child. From what she says, he doesn't seem to care about his child much, he even refuses to watch him.

Also, she doesn't want kids anymore, so hush.

Wow. Are the roommates the only ones who care about this poor child?

My daughter's father left in search of these pixies you speak of. He's not a bad man, but he acted selfishly and was more concerned with his own happiness than he was with his daughter's well being. Like the child in your question, my daughter was not left on a curb. She has a mother who loves her, and grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and lots of friends. But none of these people replaces the father who had better things to do than to watch her grow up.

She's 20 now, and has struggled with her feelings about him. She is broken in ways that I cannot fix, and it's a terrible thing to see. I've maintained a good relationship with my ex all this time in hopes that it would help build a bridge between the two of them, but she knows that she was not his priority and there's really no way to scratch that kind of thought out of your head.

Your girlfriend's decisions will directly impact the rest of her child's life. Neither of you may care about that, but it needs to be said so that you don't go off into your wonderland deluded into believing that her son will think it's just great that Mommy is finally going to get to be happy in her shiny, new life.

I realize that you think you're special. We all do until reality sets in, and there are bills that need to be paid, and broken appliances that you can't afford to fix and you start to realize that you're both actually human beings with faults and unique baggage. I don't believe the old saw that "once a cheater, always a cheater" but I would not trust a parent who walked out on her child, not no way, not no how. If she can grow bored with her own flesh and blood, I would not bet on her to stand by any vow she uttered.

Married people fall in love with other people. Whatever public opinion may say, it happens. If it's really love, then you have the rest of your lives together and can do this correctly. Divorce first, then an appropriate custody arrangement for the child so that no one is cut out of his life, and then dating. There's no need to rush.
posted by contrariwise at 5:39 PM on October 22 [5 favorites has favorites]

"We've all made these kinds of mistakes and learned from them. Why else do you think we posted to this thread, hmmm?"

Oh yes. This. My extensive personal experience with this shit is why I KNOW that it's going to end in heart-wrenching, life-ruining trainwreck. It's also why I know that Sanrio is not going to listen to any advice that tells him not to go through with it.

I reiterate my plea that he at least try to avoid getting her pregnant or cosigning large debts with her. Sanrio, you're still sane enough to realize that you're insane -- please leave your future fully-sane-again self a way out of this crazy mess you're creating.

"Also, she doesn't want kids anymore, so hush."

Then I strongly encourage her to get an IUD ASAP. Women in this state of crazy in-loveness often "forget" to use their birth control consistently. Condoms are unreliable, and men are also susceptible to making bad choices about birth control during a moment of passion. You two need a birth control method that doesn't rely on a conscious decision to use it, because your decision-making capacities are severely impacted right now.

IUDs are expensive up-front, but your local Planned Parenthood can probably give her some sort of income-based sliding-scale discount. Hell, you could probably raise the money to pay for it by taking up a collection amongst the MeFites who've read this thread. :)
posted by Jacqueline at 7:48 PM on October 22 [3 favorites has favorites]

"Hell, you could probably raise the money to pay for it by taking up a collection amongst the MeFites who've read this thread. :)"

Yes, sanrio, please MeMail me your paypal info. I'll be happy to oblige.

Also, if the baby is young enough, you might think about some sort of "grey market adoption" scheme. While totally legal, they're pretty gross. OTOH, my dad and step-mom have given their 3 children an awesome life so far. But you know, they paid a lot for those kids, so they're protecting their investment.

Just working within your boundaries here. Think about everything I have suggested.

-J.
posted by jbenben at 9:19 PM on October 22

If anyone seriously wants to create an IUD fund for Sanrio's adulteress, I recommend that you try to arrange for the money to be sent directly to her local Planned Parenthood chapter to be applied to her billing account. Neither of these people have demonstrated any honesty.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:35 PM on October 22 [1 favorite has favorites]

Also, if the baby is young enough, you might think about some sort of "grey market adoption" scheme. While totally legal, they're pretty gross. OTOH, my dad and step-mom have given their 3 children an awesome life so far. But you know, they paid a lot for those kids, so they're protecting their investment.

What!?!? You should not try that.
posted by delmoi at 5:23 AM on October 25