Are short culinary schools worth it?
October 17, 2009 3:03 AM Subscribe
Is a short-course culinary school worth it? Does it offer any cred toward haute cuisine sous-chef and chef positions, or is it for suckers who'll work at Applebees forever?
In my eternal optimism that I can find something more satisfying and stable than software development, it's dawned on me that I love cooking and would probably love to cook in a restaurant. I intend to find a no-experience-necessary kitchen job (prep cook, line cook, etc.) in the near future to see if I can stand the environment, but I'm thinking longer term for the moment.
Is there value in attending one of the several 6- to 18-month culinary schools I've found? As an example, the JNA Institute of Culinary Arts in Philly.
When I see a sous-chef job that says "culinary school background preferred", would that sort of a course qualify? Or are they specifically looking for somebody who's done a complete associate's or BFA degree in the culinary arts?
Putting aside the industry view on such programs, are they likely to teach me the numerous skills I'd need to attempt a career in chefery?
In my eternal optimism that I can find something more satisfying and stable than software development, it's dawned on me that I love cooking and would probably love to cook in a restaurant. I intend to find a no-experience-necessary kitchen job (prep cook, line cook, etc.) in the near future to see if I can stand the environment, but I'm thinking longer term for the moment.
Is there value in attending one of the several 6- to 18-month culinary schools I've found? As an example, the JNA Institute of Culinary Arts in Philly.
When I see a sous-chef job that says "culinary school background preferred", would that sort of a course qualify? Or are they specifically looking for somebody who's done a complete associate's or BFA degree in the culinary arts?
Putting aside the industry view on such programs, are they likely to teach me the numerous skills I'd need to attempt a career in chefery?
Please, please make sure you actually want to work in a restaurant before taking a spot in a culinary school.
posted by downing street memo at 6:50 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by downing street memo at 6:50 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: As I said, I intend to find work to make sure that I do, in fact, actually want to work in a restaurant before going to the expense or trouble of going to school.
posted by Netzapper at 7:11 AM on October 17, 2009
posted by Netzapper at 7:11 AM on October 17, 2009
Best answer: Cooking school is mainly a quick way to learn. You can get the same knowledge by working in good restaurants but it will take you much longer. Your idea to try working in a restaurant first is really good. I have seen many culinary school graduates who did not realize how physically demanding cooking is and decide that it isn't a good career for them after they have spent the time and money on culinary school. The upside is that cooking is really a career where you can advance based upon your skills. Not just your cooking skills but also your management and people skills. I really enjoyed culinary school but the majority of people in my class at school are no longer working in the field and most of them quit within a couple of years of graduating. The best way to find out whether a particular culinary school is worth the time and money is to ask the people who work at the type of restaurant that you want to work at.
posted by calumet43 at 7:13 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by calumet43 at 7:13 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Does it offer any cred toward haute cuisine sous-chef and chef positions
No, but it can get you up to speed fairly quickly on the essentials, which, if you're actually serious about your intentions, you'll want to have before starting.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:34 AM on October 17, 2009
No, but it can get you up to speed fairly quickly on the essentials, which, if you're actually serious about your intentions, you'll want to have before starting.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:34 AM on October 17, 2009
I waited tables from the ages of 19 to 27. My boyfriend is a cook and so are lots of our friends. We like to cook and bake for each other, which rules. You'll also come across cooks who couldn't be bothered to open a can of beans when they get home. YMMV.
I worked with cooks and chefs who had the highest level of certification (in Canada, it's a Red Seal) but lots just had work experience, a year or two of school, etc. My favourite head chef ever was in his forties and had been working at that same restaurant since he started washing dishes there as a teenager.
Some downfalls:
One thing: Cooking in a restaurant is nothing like cooking at home. At home, there's rarely somebody screaming in your face to "GET IT UP ON THE LINE NOW MOTHERFUCKER YOU'RE TOO FUCKING SLOW!" No, not every chef is Gord Ramsay, but you need to learn to be fast and efficient. When you work in a kitchen, you learn to do it THEIR way because the the guy that's been working there for fifteen years doesn't give a shit how you learned X at school or at the last place you worked at.
Some of the restaurants I worked at had kitchens that were brutally hot in the summer. Nah, scratch that. ALL of the restaurants I worked in had kitchens that were brutally hot in the summer. Oh, and kiss evenings and weekends goodbye!
Some Good Stuff:
Maybe I was just fortunate to have good jobs along the way, but working in an insanely busy restaurant was always kind of fun. With good cooks and servers working, you could put out great food in volume and have a laugh. In every restaurant I have ever worked in, there was a tight-knit social group and I was always a fan of the work culture, even though you sometimes had shitty times at work. It wasn't like now with my big kid job, where you don't really make friends and party with your colleagues.
A few years ago, I worked with a woman in her fifties who had just finished her first year of cooking school. She worked hard and made great food, always with a smile on her face. I found out through our conversations that she was a retired banker and I came to realize that she was doing it for the love of learning. Getting paid was not a necessity for her, which was good because they were only giving her $7.50 an hour.
I'm not trying to discourage you here. My boyfriend just started cooking a few years ago and he's 36. And he's awesome at it and he likes going to work. But he makes about $12 an hour and has no benefits (job security - ha!). Then again, if he's pissed off with something at work, he is welcome to stroll right into the owner's office and voice it. Few people in the working world have that luxury.
Outside of restaurants, there are lots of options. Hotels are a good option for steady work, possibility of benefits, etc. A few of the cooks I know have gone to work at the central kitchen for our city hospitals. Another chef I worked with landed a sweet job at a nursing home and he loves his job and charms the pants off the old folks, gets paid about $20 an hour, and has full benefits. There's a marine cooking course at our local school, so that qualifies people to cook out on the boats, which involves long stretches at sea but also long periods off and good money to boot.
So yeah, school is a good idea, but working in a kitchen is one of the those things you can try out before you sign up for school, which isn't too bad a deal. Have fun!
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:54 AM on October 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
I worked with cooks and chefs who had the highest level of certification (in Canada, it's a Red Seal) but lots just had work experience, a year or two of school, etc. My favourite head chef ever was in his forties and had been working at that same restaurant since he started washing dishes there as a teenager.
Some downfalls:
One thing: Cooking in a restaurant is nothing like cooking at home. At home, there's rarely somebody screaming in your face to "GET IT UP ON THE LINE NOW MOTHERFUCKER YOU'RE TOO FUCKING SLOW!" No, not every chef is Gord Ramsay, but you need to learn to be fast and efficient. When you work in a kitchen, you learn to do it THEIR way because the the guy that's been working there for fifteen years doesn't give a shit how you learned X at school or at the last place you worked at.
Some of the restaurants I worked at had kitchens that were brutally hot in the summer. Nah, scratch that. ALL of the restaurants I worked in had kitchens that were brutally hot in the summer. Oh, and kiss evenings and weekends goodbye!
Some Good Stuff:
Maybe I was just fortunate to have good jobs along the way, but working in an insanely busy restaurant was always kind of fun. With good cooks and servers working, you could put out great food in volume and have a laugh. In every restaurant I have ever worked in, there was a tight-knit social group and I was always a fan of the work culture, even though you sometimes had shitty times at work. It wasn't like now with my big kid job, where you don't really make friends and party with your colleagues.
A few years ago, I worked with a woman in her fifties who had just finished her first year of cooking school. She worked hard and made great food, always with a smile on her face. I found out through our conversations that she was a retired banker and I came to realize that she was doing it for the love of learning. Getting paid was not a necessity for her, which was good because they were only giving her $7.50 an hour.
I'm not trying to discourage you here. My boyfriend just started cooking a few years ago and he's 36. And he's awesome at it and he likes going to work. But he makes about $12 an hour and has no benefits (job security - ha!). Then again, if he's pissed off with something at work, he is welcome to stroll right into the owner's office and voice it. Few people in the working world have that luxury.
Outside of restaurants, there are lots of options. Hotels are a good option for steady work, possibility of benefits, etc. A few of the cooks I know have gone to work at the central kitchen for our city hospitals. Another chef I worked with landed a sweet job at a nursing home and he loves his job and charms the pants off the old folks, gets paid about $20 an hour, and has full benefits. There's a marine cooking course at our local school, so that qualifies people to cook out on the boats, which involves long stretches at sea but also long periods off and good money to boot.
So yeah, school is a good idea, but working in a kitchen is one of the those things you can try out before you sign up for school, which isn't too bad a deal. Have fun!
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:54 AM on October 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
Just keep in mind in this economy the only no-experience necessary job is dishwasher. That's not a bad thing. It's a pretty good way of seeing if the pacing is right for you without having a ton of stress placed on you right away.
posted by ifandonlyif at 8:34 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ifandonlyif at 8:34 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
My (real) dad is an old-school Le Cordon Bleu graduate - a qualification with which he essentially did nothing, except be a food reviewer and turn out AWESOME amazing French toast and the world's best gilled cheese sandwiches when I was a kid. So food reviewing and private catering are also options if you turn out to not like the world of restaurant kitchens.
Also: culinary arts education is hard. Technique is hard. The science of food is hard. Meat cuts are both hard and boring. People obsessed with the best glaze for a ham in rigorous programmes are incredibly competitive and crazy. Just so you know it can be like that.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:35 AM on October 17, 2009
Also: culinary arts education is hard. Technique is hard. The science of food is hard. Meat cuts are both hard and boring. People obsessed with the best glaze for a ham in rigorous programmes are incredibly competitive and crazy. Just so you know it can be like that.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:35 AM on October 17, 2009
Response by poster: I'm not looking for general advice on my career options as a cook. I'm mightily aware of how little home cooking resembles restaurant cooking. Although I do appreciate your warnings in the spirit they were given.
I'm specifically looking for information on the sorts of short and cheap programs I've been finding available throughout the country.
At home, there's rarely somebody screaming in your face to "GET IT UP ON THE LINE NOW MOTHERFUCKER YOU'RE TOO FUCKING SLOW!"
That sounds downright fun when compared to the general smoke-up-the-asshole passive-aggressive bullshit I've found in the software business.
posted by Netzapper at 8:39 AM on October 17, 2009
I'm specifically looking for information on the sorts of short and cheap programs I've been finding available throughout the country.
At home, there's rarely somebody screaming in your face to "GET IT UP ON THE LINE NOW MOTHERFUCKER YOU'RE TOO FUCKING SLOW!"
That sounds downright fun when compared to the general smoke-up-the-asshole passive-aggressive bullshit I've found in the software business.
posted by Netzapper at 8:39 AM on October 17, 2009
Best answer: I work at a fine dining restaurant and while they do hire some people who've been to cooking school, the head chef actually prefers people who don't have that background. He loves the teaching process, and would rather just start cooks off from scratch - teaching them his way of cooking. When he's in a pinch and needs to hire someone knowledgeable, he mostly looks at their in-restaurant experience.
Most of the cooks started out in 3 to 6 month unpaid internships, if he thinks they have enthusiasm for learning and have developed skills, they get hired at $9 or $10/hr. If they advance to the dinner line, they might make $11 or $12.
Of our three sous-chefs, one went to school and two walked in off the street and worked their way up. They make $35,000/year and generally work 11 to 12 hour shifts five to seven days a week. (seven days when one goes on vacation and the others have to cover, and when we have special dinners about four times a year)
From the other comments on this thread, it really seems like school can be useful but isn't mandatory. Perhaps you can explore different types of cooking jobs, and maybe try to talk to different chefs to get their take on the question before you decide to school to not-school.
posted by jenmakes at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2009
Most of the cooks started out in 3 to 6 month unpaid internships, if he thinks they have enthusiasm for learning and have developed skills, they get hired at $9 or $10/hr. If they advance to the dinner line, they might make $11 or $12.
Of our three sous-chefs, one went to school and two walked in off the street and worked their way up. They make $35,000/year and generally work 11 to 12 hour shifts five to seven days a week. (seven days when one goes on vacation and the others have to cover, and when we have special dinners about four times a year)
From the other comments on this thread, it really seems like school can be useful but isn't mandatory. Perhaps you can explore different types of cooking jobs, and maybe try to talk to different chefs to get their take on the question before you decide to school to not-school.
posted by jenmakes at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2009
Best answer: Here's my experience.
The culinary program at the community college in my city is accredited by the American Culinary Federation. There's a two-year Associate's degre program and a four-year Culinology Bachelor of Science dual-admission program in conjunction with a large university in the city. Every student in either program is required to do co-operative education, where they work in the field they are studying. This, not the degree you eventually get, is what advances you in the field. And it can advance you pretty quickly.
I personally found culinary school very beneficial. I made lots of contacts and found out about other culinary careers I had no clue existed.
posted by cooker girl at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2009
The culinary program at the community college in my city is accredited by the American Culinary Federation. There's a two-year Associate's degre program and a four-year Culinology Bachelor of Science dual-admission program in conjunction with a large university in the city. Every student in either program is required to do co-operative education, where they work in the field they are studying. This, not the degree you eventually get, is what advances you in the field. And it can advance you pretty quickly.
I personally found culinary school very beneficial. I made lots of contacts and found out about other culinary careers I had no clue existed.
posted by cooker girl at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2009
Did you check out the Alumni Listing Page of JNA? It seems like a lot of their alumni end up working in institutional-type settings, like working for Aramark, a company cafeteria, a hospital/nursing home, etc. The restaurant people seem to have jobs ranging from asst. kitchen manager at Ruth's Chris (you do NOT need a degree to become asst kitchen manager at a chain restaurant, although maybe this person was able to move up faster than they would otherwise) to sous chef at nicer restaurants.
A lot of prep cook and line cook jobs want you to have experience of some sort. You need to know how to use a knife and have basic how-not-to-burn-shit skills. It's also preferable so you get yelled at less.
posted by ishotjr at 10:03 AM on October 17, 2009
A lot of prep cook and line cook jobs want you to have experience of some sort. You need to know how to use a knife and have basic how-not-to-burn-shit skills. It's also preferable so you get yelled at less.
posted by ishotjr at 10:03 AM on October 17, 2009
You may want to check out Ruhlman's books. They're about his experiences at school and then as a line chef.
posted by xammerboy at 3:23 PM on October 17, 2009
posted by xammerboy at 3:23 PM on October 17, 2009
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posted by toastchee at 5:34 AM on October 17, 2009 [1 favorite]