She drives me crazy, and it needs to stop.
October 13, 2009 10:39 AM Subscribe
How do I get this woman out of my head? It's distracting and unhelpful.
I've known her for almost a decade. She simply charms the hell out of me—pretty, smart, kind, funny, etc. Aside from one clumsy attempt to court her years ago, I've never told her in so many words how I feel about her, but I think she knows well enough by now. I know that she cares about me and values our friendship, but I eventually realized and accepted that it was going to be just that—friendship—and stopped reaching for something more.
Then there was the other night. We hadn't seen each other in a couple of years (though we've kept in touch online). We decided to get together on the weekend (at her invitation). We ended up having a fabulous time—we made a delicious meal from scratch, drank plenty of wine, had some sober and intimate conversation about our inner lives (she's having some problems), laughed and joked and played a lot too, and exchanged a good bit of PG-13-but-pretty-damn-flirty physical affection (certainly more than is our custom). I may have been a little more forward than she, but she certainly didn't discourage me.
It was all very comfortable and easy and spontaneous—were it not for the circumstances, I'd call it a successful date. (Also of note: she told me outright that she hasn't had sex in a year and would very much like some; I believe the exact phrase was "I need penis", or something similar.)
Here are the circumstances: she's married.
I know; I know. We didn't do anything for which we're going to Hell, but nor would I expect her husband to be happy with the cuddling and the footrubs and the flirty embraces and the little (very little) kiss goodnight. I feel crummy, but I'm glad things didn't go any farther than they did.
Her aforementioned problems, you see, revolve around the fact that she is no longer romantically interested in her husband, and has been seriously thinking about ending the marriage for some time. (For what it's worth, it seems to be a mutual thing.) She's feeling trapped and uncertain, and is generally starting to doubt whether the life she's made for herself (a quite successful one, by external standards, and she's still young) is really the life she wants to live. I had a vague inkling that something was up beforehand, but only an inkling.
Now, I know damn well that I can't pursue this (whatever "this" actually is—which may be nothing more than an unintended byproduct of mutual sexual/emotional frustration and too much wine), and I'm not going to. But the evening rekindled my affections for her in a serious way, and now I can't get her out of my head. I want her something fierce (not just physically, though that's certainly part of it). It's distracting me from my work (such as right now), and I'm wasting too much time on unrealistic (and selfish) what-if fantasies. My brain manages to take thoughts such as "maybe I should get another cup of coffee" and "gee, I should probably change the litterbox soon" and somehow connect them to her. She pushes my buttons like crazy.
I would like to put these distractions out of my mind. I can't act on my desires, and even if it was more than a drunken lapse in judgement, the important thing right now is for her to find answers to her questions. As her friend, I would gladly help her with that if I could, but I'm (quite obviously) in no position to offer objective counsel.
And, to be honest, I've spent too much of my life as the Nice Guy (read: chump) who's always there with a shoulder to cry on and eager to sublimate my own wants for the sake of an imbalanced relationship (the other wanting only friendship, me wanting something more). And I kinda feel like doing anything with this other than pushing it out of my mind would be heading back down that road.
So, hive mind: how do you put thoughts like these out of your head? Cold showers? Run marathons? Hardcore drug use? Help! Throwaway email is monkeybutter1@live.com, if you want to correspond privately.
I've known her for almost a decade. She simply charms the hell out of me—pretty, smart, kind, funny, etc. Aside from one clumsy attempt to court her years ago, I've never told her in so many words how I feel about her, but I think she knows well enough by now. I know that she cares about me and values our friendship, but I eventually realized and accepted that it was going to be just that—friendship—and stopped reaching for something more.
Then there was the other night. We hadn't seen each other in a couple of years (though we've kept in touch online). We decided to get together on the weekend (at her invitation). We ended up having a fabulous time—we made a delicious meal from scratch, drank plenty of wine, had some sober and intimate conversation about our inner lives (she's having some problems), laughed and joked and played a lot too, and exchanged a good bit of PG-13-but-pretty-damn-flirty physical affection (certainly more than is our custom). I may have been a little more forward than she, but she certainly didn't discourage me.
It was all very comfortable and easy and spontaneous—were it not for the circumstances, I'd call it a successful date. (Also of note: she told me outright that she hasn't had sex in a year and would very much like some; I believe the exact phrase was "I need penis", or something similar.)
Here are the circumstances: she's married.
I know; I know. We didn't do anything for which we're going to Hell, but nor would I expect her husband to be happy with the cuddling and the footrubs and the flirty embraces and the little (very little) kiss goodnight. I feel crummy, but I'm glad things didn't go any farther than they did.
Her aforementioned problems, you see, revolve around the fact that she is no longer romantically interested in her husband, and has been seriously thinking about ending the marriage for some time. (For what it's worth, it seems to be a mutual thing.) She's feeling trapped and uncertain, and is generally starting to doubt whether the life she's made for herself (a quite successful one, by external standards, and she's still young) is really the life she wants to live. I had a vague inkling that something was up beforehand, but only an inkling.
Now, I know damn well that I can't pursue this (whatever "this" actually is—which may be nothing more than an unintended byproduct of mutual sexual/emotional frustration and too much wine), and I'm not going to. But the evening rekindled my affections for her in a serious way, and now I can't get her out of my head. I want her something fierce (not just physically, though that's certainly part of it). It's distracting me from my work (such as right now), and I'm wasting too much time on unrealistic (and selfish) what-if fantasies. My brain manages to take thoughts such as "maybe I should get another cup of coffee" and "gee, I should probably change the litterbox soon" and somehow connect them to her. She pushes my buttons like crazy.
I would like to put these distractions out of my mind. I can't act on my desires, and even if it was more than a drunken lapse in judgement, the important thing right now is for her to find answers to her questions. As her friend, I would gladly help her with that if I could, but I'm (quite obviously) in no position to offer objective counsel.
And, to be honest, I've spent too much of my life as the Nice Guy (read: chump) who's always there with a shoulder to cry on and eager to sublimate my own wants for the sake of an imbalanced relationship (the other wanting only friendship, me wanting something more). And I kinda feel like doing anything with this other than pushing it out of my mind would be heading back down that road.
So, hive mind: how do you put thoughts like these out of your head? Cold showers? Run marathons? Hardcore drug use? Help! Throwaway email is monkeybutter1@live.com, if you want to correspond privately.
Can you find a way to associate her with something bad? What is her first name? We can rhyme it with something awful for you.
posted by AlliKat75 at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by AlliKat75 at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry, I should add, since I didn't give you practical advice there: When you think of her, or get warm feelings toward her, remember the entire situation. Think of the worst-case scenario (she's just using me), repeat ad nauseum.
posted by pazazygeek at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by pazazygeek at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
This is complicated, but in the end I think that you need to decide what you're willing to put up with for yourself. There are a few things going on here, one of them is your own attraction and feelings for her, and the other is the way she is using that in expressing her current feelings about her current relationship. It seems like the first thing (your attraction to her) makes the second thing (her acting out her relationships issues with you) possible.
If you want to have a real romantic relationship with this woman, ask yourself under what terms that would and should be possible. Is it okay with you if she starts being with you by cheating on her husband, and are you comfortable in that role (it wouldn't be okay with me)? Are you sure this affection she's showing you is for YOU and not just her acting out her frustrations by manipulating a guy she knows has always had a thing for her? If you don't, in the end, want to have a romantic relationship with this woman, or if you're sure she's not actually interested in that with you, then what do you need to do to either maintain your current friendship with her or just save your own self? If you do want a romantic relationship with her what do you need to tell her? Etc. Look after yourself, be honest with yourself and her, and make sure you aren't just responding to the possible consummation of an old crush.
posted by dubitable at 10:59 AM on October 13, 2009
If you want to have a real romantic relationship with this woman, ask yourself under what terms that would and should be possible. Is it okay with you if she starts being with you by cheating on her husband, and are you comfortable in that role (it wouldn't be okay with me)? Are you sure this affection she's showing you is for YOU and not just her acting out her frustrations by manipulating a guy she knows has always had a thing for her? If you don't, in the end, want to have a romantic relationship with this woman, or if you're sure she's not actually interested in that with you, then what do you need to do to either maintain your current friendship with her or just save your own self? If you do want a romantic relationship with her what do you need to tell her? Etc. Look after yourself, be honest with yourself and her, and make sure you aren't just responding to the possible consummation of an old crush.
posted by dubitable at 10:59 AM on October 13, 2009
Sorry, reading back my comment I realize I don't have a clear response to your basic question, which is how to get her out of your head. Well, if you really want to do this, I would say you need to distance yourself from her, no ifs ands or buts. It really seems like she is using you, and unless you know you are capable of spending time with her and making it clear that you have boundaries (i.e., if you aren't going to act on your own flirtatious impulses), then you should stay away from her. As others have said, if she is truly your friend and a good person, she will want to do this for herself, and understand how considerate you are being towards both of you if you tell her honestly what you need.
Okay, hopefully that's more helpful. Good luck with a tricky situation!
posted by dubitable at 11:03 AM on October 13, 2009
Okay, hopefully that's more helpful. Good luck with a tricky situation!
posted by dubitable at 11:03 AM on October 13, 2009
(I believe he is asking only this: how to get her out of his head.
He's not asking for you're moral posturing.)
Start dating other women asap.
posted by Zambrano at 11:12 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
He's not asking for you're moral posturing.)
Start dating other women asap.
posted by Zambrano at 11:12 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Date girls and ignore her. You have your needs as well as she has hers, and you need to focus on your needs and not hers.
posted by Postroad at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Tell her you wish her luck with her marriage and/or divorce, but that she's just such a fantastically awesome woman that you are unable to be casual friends with her for awhile. Tell her to let you know if she's ever free and wants to explore a relationship with you, you'd love to hear from you. Then, stop contact for at least six months. Try dating other people. Continued contact will not allow you to get her out of your head.
posted by bluejayk at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by bluejayk at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2009 [8 favorites]
You are very smart to realize that this involves getting the woman out of your head, not in getting her in to the sack.
Usually, thoughts like this intrude (1) when we have recently been interacting with the person; or (2) when there is something else we don't want to think about.
The key is to not try and escape from the feelings. They aren't bad in and of themselves, so when you have such a thought, note it, feel the feelings associated with it, but do not engage it. Don't think more about it, or think about how to stop it. Instead, think of another problem you are facing. That way, if you are doing (2) you will not need to distract yourself.
Best of luck, everybody's been there.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:25 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Usually, thoughts like this intrude (1) when we have recently been interacting with the person; or (2) when there is something else we don't want to think about.
The key is to not try and escape from the feelings. They aren't bad in and of themselves, so when you have such a thought, note it, feel the feelings associated with it, but do not engage it. Don't think more about it, or think about how to stop it. Instead, think of another problem you are facing. That way, if you are doing (2) you will not need to distract yourself.
Best of luck, everybody's been there.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:25 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, sorry but you have to cut her off.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:26 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 11:26 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
And now for a completely unique event in the history of my posting on AskMe...
...Wait for it...
Seconding Zambrano.
Wow, that feels weird.
This is a classic case that calls for distraction as much as, or more than, a focus on the problem.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:30 AM on October 13, 2009 [10 favorites]
...Wait for it...
Seconding Zambrano.
Wow, that feels weird.
This is a classic case that calls for distraction as much as, or more than, a focus on the problem.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:30 AM on October 13, 2009 [10 favorites]
If you're honestly trying to get her out of your head - and you're not just looking for advice in the realm of 'keep at it and she'll divorce for you,' then you just have to back off. Way off. No more weekend trips. No more very intimate anything. I think stopping all contact is a bit harsh and will probably just exacerbate the problem. Distance yourself and your feelings.
And then go meet other women as fast as possible. And have sex with them. Lots of really amazing sex.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:32 AM on October 13, 2009
And then go meet other women as fast as possible. And have sex with them. Lots of really amazing sex.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:32 AM on October 13, 2009
I have been in a similar situation minus the marriage angle. The only thing to do is cut it off completely. Now. It will hurt, but it has to be done. She doesn't have real feelings for you, she just known you for a long time and thinks you're tame and is using you for some emotional needs that are obviously not being me elsewhere. Once you cut her off, time will make you forget about her. You'll just have to wait it out.
posted by dortmunder at 11:32 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by dortmunder at 11:32 AM on October 13, 2009
bluejayk has it exactly right.
posted by decathecting at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by decathecting at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2009
she= she's and me=met. Two typos in one comment. I quit for today.
posted by dortmunder at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by dortmunder at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2009
This is a challenge to you to go out into the world and find something (or maybe someone) more exciting and interesting.
Practically: If it's distracting you at work, take the time it distracts you anyway and research fun stuff to do over the weekend or plan obsessively about projects to take on, or how you're going to go out drinking and practice your flirting skills on girls at the bar and how it'll be nerve-wracking and you'll learn a lot and it'll be so damned exciting and terrifying. Meanwhile, you've got the right idea that you can't counsel her now. Stick to your guns on that, and on not wanting to be near her physically. She should have other friends, and if she doesn't, then she'll quickly make new friends - so many people have had relationship problems that she's certain to find a sympathetic ear, and certainly a more detached one.
posted by lorrer at 11:36 AM on October 13, 2009
Practically: If it's distracting you at work, take the time it distracts you anyway and research fun stuff to do over the weekend or plan obsessively about projects to take on, or how you're going to go out drinking and practice your flirting skills on girls at the bar and how it'll be nerve-wracking and you'll learn a lot and it'll be so damned exciting and terrifying. Meanwhile, you've got the right idea that you can't counsel her now. Stick to your guns on that, and on not wanting to be near her physically. She should have other friends, and if she doesn't, then she'll quickly make new friends - so many people have had relationship problems that she's certain to find a sympathetic ear, and certainly a more detached one.
posted by lorrer at 11:36 AM on October 13, 2009
don't think of a white bear...
and from that little example, it's easy to see how the mind goes running after nearly anything, like a dog seeing a squirrel - the only way i know how to make the mind focus & to keep unwanted thoughts from occupying or dominating one's thoughts is through discipline and practice - you need to adopt a mental routine in regards to the thoughts of this woman & keep to it
one technique i found especially useful is this: every time you catch yourself thinking about her, imagine the thoughts & feelings as if they were written/drawn on a piece of paper - now take that piece of paper in your mind & crumple it up & toss it out - you can substitute other similar scenarios if they seem more useful to you (rock into a stream, light the paper on fire, etc.)
another useful technique is simply to start counting your breathing - do nothing but breathe & number each breath until you get to 10/20/30 - if necessary, say it to yourself in your head ("now i'm breathing in... 1... now i'm breathing out... 2...)
the trick is being as consistent as possible - EVERY time you catch youself thinking of her, crumple that paper & throw it away
the mind is alot like a dog that routine & practice really do help it to light up new pathways in the synapses, new ways of thinking - it takes time, but it does work & is very worth it
what's nice also about this method is that you don't have to think bad thoughts about her (which your heart won't believe in anyways) - this way, you're just emptying your head of distracting feelings, not making judgments or casting aspersions on the sources of her feelings
posted by jammy at 11:39 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
and from that little example, it's easy to see how the mind goes running after nearly anything, like a dog seeing a squirrel - the only way i know how to make the mind focus & to keep unwanted thoughts from occupying or dominating one's thoughts is through discipline and practice - you need to adopt a mental routine in regards to the thoughts of this woman & keep to it
one technique i found especially useful is this: every time you catch yourself thinking about her, imagine the thoughts & feelings as if they were written/drawn on a piece of paper - now take that piece of paper in your mind & crumple it up & toss it out - you can substitute other similar scenarios if they seem more useful to you (rock into a stream, light the paper on fire, etc.)
another useful technique is simply to start counting your breathing - do nothing but breathe & number each breath until you get to 10/20/30 - if necessary, say it to yourself in your head ("now i'm breathing in... 1... now i'm breathing out... 2...)
the trick is being as consistent as possible - EVERY time you catch youself thinking of her, crumple that paper & throw it away
the mind is alot like a dog that routine & practice really do help it to light up new pathways in the synapses, new ways of thinking - it takes time, but it does work & is very worth it
what's nice also about this method is that you don't have to think bad thoughts about her (which your heart won't believe in anyways) - this way, you're just emptying your head of distracting feelings, not making judgments or casting aspersions on the sources of her feelings
posted by jammy at 11:39 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Getting her out of your mind is going to be hard.
- You're into her.
- She's into you.
- She's unhappy with her marriage.
- You guys are ramping up the emotional intimacy and the physical flirtation.
Those are the kinds of conditions which eventually lead to an affair. You can't change the first three things. But you can change the last one. Some concrete suggestions:
- DO pull back. Turn down any invites for private "dates". Cut the number of calls and emails in half. Do whatever you can to ramp down the emotional and physical intimacy.
- DON'T do anything to increase your emotional intimacy with her. For instance, having a long conversation about how you don't want to get between her and her husband is NOT a good idea. If you must, you can say something like what bluejayk suggested.
- DO distract yourself with other people. Sign up for an online dating service and go out on a bunch of first dates. Maximize the chances that you'll find love, sex, and attraction with someone else. Get your friends to help you date. You sound lonely, and so long as you're lonely, you'll be very vulnerable to "drunken lapses of judgement".
Good luck.
posted by ourobouros at 11:53 AM on October 13, 2009
- You're into her.
- She's into you.
- She's unhappy with her marriage.
- You guys are ramping up the emotional intimacy and the physical flirtation.
Those are the kinds of conditions which eventually lead to an affair. You can't change the first three things. But you can change the last one. Some concrete suggestions:
- DO pull back. Turn down any invites for private "dates". Cut the number of calls and emails in half. Do whatever you can to ramp down the emotional and physical intimacy.
- DON'T do anything to increase your emotional intimacy with her. For instance, having a long conversation about how you don't want to get between her and her husband is NOT a good idea. If you must, you can say something like what bluejayk suggested.
- DO distract yourself with other people. Sign up for an online dating service and go out on a bunch of first dates. Maximize the chances that you'll find love, sex, and attraction with someone else. Get your friends to help you date. You sound lonely, and so long as you're lonely, you'll be very vulnerable to "drunken lapses of judgement".
Good luck.
posted by ourobouros at 11:53 AM on October 13, 2009
She's married and unhappy, and if she tries to fool around with another guy her marriage will likely implode. But she's got you, who she knows will not reject you, and who she knows will not get angry if she flirts with you a little but doesn't let it go too far.
I hope you enjoyed it; nothing wrong with it if you had a good time and she did, too. Until/unless her marriage has ended, however, that's all it was and all it ever will be. You were just a safe guy to say things like "I need penis" to, without having to worry that you'd act on it, and a safe guy to flirt with, without worrying that you would push to sleep with her.
Knowing this isn't going to get her out of your head, but if you want her out of your head, you have to understand her POV -- that she picked you specifically because there was no way you and she would sleep together, or that it would become a messy emotional thing (for her.) Not because you're a bad person, or ugly, or undesirable, of course...just because of your history together.
So the next step, as Zambrano says, is to start dating. Get out there, have some really lousy dates and a few really good ones, and move on with your life. If she actually divorces her husband, why, go ahead and ask her out on a date date, and see if you two hit it off -- but odds of that happening are not only long, but completely out of your control, so other women (aka moving on with your life) is the only way to stop thinking about her.
And you'll still think about her, once in a while, in a "what if?" kind of way, but that's totally normal and okay.
posted by davejay at 11:59 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I hope you enjoyed it; nothing wrong with it if you had a good time and she did, too. Until/unless her marriage has ended, however, that's all it was and all it ever will be. You were just a safe guy to say things like "I need penis" to, without having to worry that you'd act on it, and a safe guy to flirt with, without worrying that you would push to sleep with her.
Knowing this isn't going to get her out of your head, but if you want her out of your head, you have to understand her POV -- that she picked you specifically because there was no way you and she would sleep together, or that it would become a messy emotional thing (for her.) Not because you're a bad person, or ugly, or undesirable, of course...just because of your history together.
So the next step, as Zambrano says, is to start dating. Get out there, have some really lousy dates and a few really good ones, and move on with your life. If she actually divorces her husband, why, go ahead and ask her out on a date date, and see if you two hit it off -- but odds of that happening are not only long, but completely out of your control, so other women (aka moving on with your life) is the only way to stop thinking about her.
And you'll still think about her, once in a while, in a "what if?" kind of way, but that's totally normal and okay.
posted by davejay at 11:59 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
She called you out of the blue because she's thinking very seriously of leaving her husband, and she needed the attention she knows she can get from you for the ego boost to remember that if she does leave her husband, she will be able to attract a new man and that men do find her interesting, charming and attractive. She didn't necessarily do this consciously, exactly, but that's the underlying reason.
Totally true. You are either her footstool to bigger, better things, or the release valve that will keep her from ever leaving her marriage at all. Nothing good will come of this. You deserve better. Like Zambrano said, start searching for a healthy relationship ASAP.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:06 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Totally true. You are either her footstool to bigger, better things, or the release valve that will keep her from ever leaving her marriage at all. Nothing good will come of this. You deserve better. Like Zambrano said, start searching for a healthy relationship ASAP.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:06 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Other people have already given you insight and some good advice that I won't repeat (except for the "Do Not Hang Out With Her/See Her/Talk to Her Again" because that's important, excluding perhaps one more time in which she contacts you, and you explain why you can't see her again and wish her well...)
I thought I'd mention a couple of other things because, well, personally I've found that "Date Other People" doesn't always work. Going on dates with new people always strings back to me thinking about the person I really want to be dating, who I'm supposed to be getting over.
So here's some other suggestions you might try, in addition....
1. Keep your mind occupied with something else besides your own thoughts as often as possible, especially stories. Watch a lot of TV and movies, read a lot of books, listen to a lot of audiobooks (while in the car, and at work, if you have a job where you can listen to something while you work). For me, getting involved in the drama/intricacies of other people's lives, even if they're all fictional characters, gets my mind off of my own dramas.
2. Get busy. Really really busy. Get a notepad, and walk around your entire house/apartment, and write down *every* small task that you need to do and have been putting off. Paint over a tiny scrape in the wall, re-arrange the tupperware cabinet, scrub your toilet, wash your bathmats, throw out old books/toys you don't need anymore and donate them, etc. Once you have that huge list of tasks, and every time you catch yourself with free time or thinking about the girl, force yourself to start slogging through the list and get as much as you can done in the time you have.
3. Riddles, puzzles, games, math. I'm a nerd so these things really appeal to me, anything that challenges my brain and keeps me occupied....personally I love logic puzzles, they will keep my brain occupied for a good amount of time and I often turn to those if I'm thinking too much about something I shouldn't be.
4. Learn a new skill. I recommend something which requires you to work with your hands, a craft of some sort - sculpting, woodwork, painting, etc. Or a musical instrument. Or a new language. Actually the important part is to pick something you always wanted to learn to do but just never found the time to do it - something that you know will hold your interest. If you don't have a lot of time to pick something up, you can still start by searching out for podcasts you can listen to about the subject, or read websites about people who have succeeding at learning the skill, whenever you catch yourself thinking about the girl.
But try dating other people as a lot of others have mentioned. That probably does work the best, it just hasn't worked for me very well in the past.
Good luck, and as cliche as it is, time really does heal everything. In a year, you certainly won't still be feeling this way.
posted by Squee at 12:18 PM on October 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
I thought I'd mention a couple of other things because, well, personally I've found that "Date Other People" doesn't always work. Going on dates with new people always strings back to me thinking about the person I really want to be dating, who I'm supposed to be getting over.
So here's some other suggestions you might try, in addition....
1. Keep your mind occupied with something else besides your own thoughts as often as possible, especially stories. Watch a lot of TV and movies, read a lot of books, listen to a lot of audiobooks (while in the car, and at work, if you have a job where you can listen to something while you work). For me, getting involved in the drama/intricacies of other people's lives, even if they're all fictional characters, gets my mind off of my own dramas.
2. Get busy. Really really busy. Get a notepad, and walk around your entire house/apartment, and write down *every* small task that you need to do and have been putting off. Paint over a tiny scrape in the wall, re-arrange the tupperware cabinet, scrub your toilet, wash your bathmats, throw out old books/toys you don't need anymore and donate them, etc. Once you have that huge list of tasks, and every time you catch yourself with free time or thinking about the girl, force yourself to start slogging through the list and get as much as you can done in the time you have.
3. Riddles, puzzles, games, math. I'm a nerd so these things really appeal to me, anything that challenges my brain and keeps me occupied....personally I love logic puzzles, they will keep my brain occupied for a good amount of time and I often turn to those if I'm thinking too much about something I shouldn't be.
4. Learn a new skill. I recommend something which requires you to work with your hands, a craft of some sort - sculpting, woodwork, painting, etc. Or a musical instrument. Or a new language. Actually the important part is to pick something you always wanted to learn to do but just never found the time to do it - something that you know will hold your interest. If you don't have a lot of time to pick something up, you can still start by searching out for podcasts you can listen to about the subject, or read websites about people who have succeeding at learning the skill, whenever you catch yourself thinking about the girl.
But try dating other people as a lot of others have mentioned. That probably does work the best, it just hasn't worked for me very well in the past.
Good luck, and as cliche as it is, time really does heal everything. In a year, you certainly won't still be feeling this way.
posted by Squee at 12:18 PM on October 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
All; this advice seems spot on. I now pause to go off topic a bit. that the two of you petted etc but had no sex is what in grade school we called petting a no penetration. It is on her part emotional infidelity. Yes. she is unhappy in her marriage. And so....?
posted by Postroad at 12:27 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by Postroad at 12:27 PM on October 13, 2009
She's in your head because you want her there (and in other places too). She'll stay in your head until the pain and frustration of having here there is more than you want.
I think the morality argument (i.e., it's wrong to have sex with a married person) doesn't do much when you're in the middle of a storm of desire, like you are. I understand this is an important argument for many people here in the metafilter community - I just don't think it's compelling when it seems to you that you've got an opportunity to be with someone awesome *and* you're tired of being a "chump/nice guy."
Certainly the advice given upthread is spot on, if you really want to get her out of your head. To me, it sounds like though you believe that's the *right thing* to do, you're not entirely sure that that's what you *want* to do. In my view, it's all about your tolerance for pain and guilt. If you've got a fairly high tolerance for both, by all means, keep pushing your involvement with her. You can have delicious drama, secrecy, and epic struggles between your desires and your wish to do the right thing. Heck, if you're a musician, writer, or actor, you'll get TONS of material to work with.
Just know that in all likelihood, this will not end well. You'll find the strength to end it when the pain starts exceeding the pleasure.
posted by jasper411 at 12:37 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think the morality argument (i.e., it's wrong to have sex with a married person) doesn't do much when you're in the middle of a storm of desire, like you are. I understand this is an important argument for many people here in the metafilter community - I just don't think it's compelling when it seems to you that you've got an opportunity to be with someone awesome *and* you're tired of being a "chump/nice guy."
Certainly the advice given upthread is spot on, if you really want to get her out of your head. To me, it sounds like though you believe that's the *right thing* to do, you're not entirely sure that that's what you *want* to do. In my view, it's all about your tolerance for pain and guilt. If you've got a fairly high tolerance for both, by all means, keep pushing your involvement with her. You can have delicious drama, secrecy, and epic struggles between your desires and your wish to do the right thing. Heck, if you're a musician, writer, or actor, you'll get TONS of material to work with.
Just know that in all likelihood, this will not end well. You'll find the strength to end it when the pain starts exceeding the pleasure.
posted by jasper411 at 12:37 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Date someone else. Repeat. Repeat.
You're not friends. Stop fostering the notion that you are. You want her. You pursued (you say it was "clumsy") and you weren't welcomed. Even so, your feelings didn't change. This is not a friendship.
You've never told her about your feelings. Thus you are hiding them. This is an important clue to where you are. And why you feel the constant pain of wanting her: You are safe. You don't have to lose the thrill you have being around her if you don't scare her away with your real feelings.
If dating someone else doesn't seem that great to you, imagine in your mind exactly what you would really want to happen. Now imagine telling her exactly what you want to happen. Does that seem like it would be well received? Do you really want her to know? If so, why don't you tell her? If you're rejected, that might help you move on if you are honest with yourself about her feelings for you. If your affections are accepted, then you will have a new set of pleasures and pains to deal with. Either way, you will have moved forward out of this deadlock.
This has a very low probability of ending without pain, particularly on your part. With that expectation, you can either do a slow burn of keeping her in the dark and "loving from afar" until you get over it, or pull it off like a bandaid and get to the next chapter of your life, either with her or without her.
posted by buzzv at 1:39 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
You're not friends. Stop fostering the notion that you are. You want her. You pursued (you say it was "clumsy") and you weren't welcomed. Even so, your feelings didn't change. This is not a friendship.
You've never told her about your feelings. Thus you are hiding them. This is an important clue to where you are. And why you feel the constant pain of wanting her: You are safe. You don't have to lose the thrill you have being around her if you don't scare her away with your real feelings.
If dating someone else doesn't seem that great to you, imagine in your mind exactly what you would really want to happen. Now imagine telling her exactly what you want to happen. Does that seem like it would be well received? Do you really want her to know? If so, why don't you tell her? If you're rejected, that might help you move on if you are honest with yourself about her feelings for you. If your affections are accepted, then you will have a new set of pleasures and pains to deal with. Either way, you will have moved forward out of this deadlock.
This has a very low probability of ending without pain, particularly on your part. With that expectation, you can either do a slow burn of keeping her in the dark and "loving from afar" until you get over it, or pull it off like a bandaid and get to the next chapter of your life, either with her or without her.
posted by buzzv at 1:39 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Seconding Squee. I too found that going on second-rate lousy dates really emphasizes how lonely and sad my life it, and how few people in this world I really have a connection with. That drives me right back to obsessing over the one person I should be forgetting about.
What I found is really helpful is constant stimulation to keep your mind occupied. Find something that you like doing and occupies all your time. If you ever wanted to watch tv marathons but had been previously scared to do so because it would deaden your brain cells, now's the time to do it. Entire seasons of House and Buffy usually does the trick for me. Or listening to music whenever you are alone. Carry an iPod and listen to it all the time.
And this goes without saying, but surround yourself with people you like and care about. I think that people have been kind of getting at this, but instead of going on really lousy dates, find friends whom you like hanging with and have dinner parties! Go cycling!
posted by moiraine at 2:01 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
What I found is really helpful is constant stimulation to keep your mind occupied. Find something that you like doing and occupies all your time. If you ever wanted to watch tv marathons but had been previously scared to do so because it would deaden your brain cells, now's the time to do it. Entire seasons of House and Buffy usually does the trick for me. Or listening to music whenever you are alone. Carry an iPod and listen to it all the time.
And this goes without saying, but surround yourself with people you like and care about. I think that people have been kind of getting at this, but instead of going on really lousy dates, find friends whom you like hanging with and have dinner parties! Go cycling!
posted by moiraine at 2:01 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Aversion therapy!
Every time you start obsessing on how much you want to have sex with her, do a Google Image Search on "herpes, genital herpes, shingles, zoster, 'herpetic whitlow', 'eye herpes', 'herpes keratitis', syphilis, chancre, 'AIDS related complex', sarcoma, hairy leukoplakia, molluscum contagiosum, cryptococcosis, and 'systemic fungal infection" until you never, ever want to touch anyone again.
Take it from me, this tactic is 100% guaranteed to throw cold water on even the most overheated of romantic fantasies.
posted by aquafortis at 2:14 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Every time you start obsessing on how much you want to have sex with her, do a Google Image Search on "herpes, genital herpes, shingles, zoster, 'herpetic whitlow', 'eye herpes', 'herpes keratitis', syphilis, chancre, 'AIDS related complex', sarcoma, hairy leukoplakia, molluscum contagiosum, cryptococcosis, and 'systemic fungal infection" until you never, ever want to touch anyone again.
Take it from me, this tactic is 100% guaranteed to throw cold water on even the most overheated of romantic fantasies.
posted by aquafortis at 2:14 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I found it helpful to read a bit about limerence in order to take a step back and realize what was going on in my brain and body to make me feel like this. It helped me to remove myself a bit from the situation, and look it at more objectively by admitting that the intense, heady rush of emotion was clouding my judgment.
posted by Ouisch at 3:40 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Ouisch at 3:40 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Push ups. Or pull ups. Or sit ups. Whatever. Every time you think of her, do 10 or 20 or whatever number is challenging, but do-able in a single set. (When that gets easy, up the number.) The exercise helps you bring yourself back to the present with the physical challenge and it gives you a bit of a mood boost, but it doesn't require as much time/effort as, say, marathon training, so you can do it at work or whatever. Also, your arms/abs will start looking a lot better and that will probably make you feel better about yourself.
Also, you have to want to stop thinking about her. This isn't going to work until you're really ready to give up this crush.
posted by min at 3:50 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, you have to want to stop thinking about her. This isn't going to work until you're really ready to give up this crush.
posted by min at 3:50 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ouch. You're in a tough spot, kid. I agree with pazazygeek and kathrineg... it was pretty much a classic textbook seduction scene, really, and it would make anyone in your position crazy - male, female, goat or aardvark. Nothing wrong with your head, but there might well be something wrong with hers.
For me, I think the only way I could position myself to begin working on making it go away is just by biting the bullet and asking straight out what the other person's intentions are. The most likely possibilities are that she's testing the single waters generally; she's undecided about divorce but decided she wants to cheat (and she chose you because she trusts you, and know how you feel about her); she's setting up her escape plan (she wants to leave, but she wants someone "in place" because she's afraid to go out on her own at first); she regrets overlooking you and wants to pursue a relationship with you now that she's pretty much decided to leave her husband.
I think you and most responders here think that the last option is probably the least likely... But it's not impossible, and that's what would drive me batty if I just closed it down and refused to see or communicate with the other person - that tiny spark of hope and doubt. If you are truly friends and she is honest and self-aware, perhaps she can answer what the hell is in her head, and thereby let you get on with your life one way or the other. If she admits that she's just flirting with the idea of single life or cheating, it will be easier for you to extinguish the spark that she's been fanning. And if she is actually interested in you for a potential above-board romance because she feels like she might have been wrong in dismissing that idea years ago, well, there you go. You might feel okay about pursuing that possibility, fraught with danger as it is. But you need to know. You at least need to know what she thinks she feels.
If she won't tell you, if she hedges and refuses to address the obvious, you need to back away and stop all contact. If she pretends that your date was just an innocent supper with a friend and she never meant to lead you on, then she's lying (to you, to herself, or both), and big Trouble*. Stop all contact. If she's unsure what she's doing, that's not totally unsurprising; basically, you take it from there - ask her to get in touch if she decides that she wants to divorce and would like to explore the possibility of a relationship with you, or decide if you want to hang in there and see what might develop in this weird fringe area. If she says she's been thinking of you, and wanted to see how it might be between you... well, again - that's all you.
BUT, whatever you do, Do Not become (or continue being) her guy-buddy-friend-confidante for her marriage woes - not in person, not by email, not by IM, phone, letter or carrier pigeon. If she wants to talk about you and her, well that's possibly peachy; if she wants to talk about her and her husband, then you are some third wheel on a very unstable cart, and she is definitely not interested in any real romance with you. All efforts to cast you in that confidante role after the initial disclosure (that may have been just letting you know how things stand) must be burned with fire.
This may not be direct advice about how to eliminate, redirect, corral, or taper off these maddening thoughts, but it would be a step I would need to take before I could successfully use any/all of the above methods (Squee's ideas are the most congenial to me, personally) to to accomplish that.
* Speaking as a woman, in my opinion it would be a very, very naive and/or stupid/cruel/disturbed woman to set up this super-intimate scenario (cooking together, lots of wine, deeply personal disclosures, foot massage, etc.), complete with explicit language about wanting sex, if she wasn't trying to seduce our hero. With extremely few exceptions, you might tell girlfriends or your gay guy friend you "need penis," but you don't disclose this to a ready, willing, and able penis-possessor unless you are looking for action or setting up some sick drama.
posted by taz at 6:43 AM on October 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
For me, I think the only way I could position myself to begin working on making it go away is just by biting the bullet and asking straight out what the other person's intentions are. The most likely possibilities are that she's testing the single waters generally; she's undecided about divorce but decided she wants to cheat (and she chose you because she trusts you, and know how you feel about her); she's setting up her escape plan (she wants to leave, but she wants someone "in place" because she's afraid to go out on her own at first); she regrets overlooking you and wants to pursue a relationship with you now that she's pretty much decided to leave her husband.
I think you and most responders here think that the last option is probably the least likely... But it's not impossible, and that's what would drive me batty if I just closed it down and refused to see or communicate with the other person - that tiny spark of hope and doubt. If you are truly friends and she is honest and self-aware, perhaps she can answer what the hell is in her head, and thereby let you get on with your life one way or the other. If she admits that she's just flirting with the idea of single life or cheating, it will be easier for you to extinguish the spark that she's been fanning. And if she is actually interested in you for a potential above-board romance because she feels like she might have been wrong in dismissing that idea years ago, well, there you go. You might feel okay about pursuing that possibility, fraught with danger as it is. But you need to know. You at least need to know what she thinks she feels.
If she won't tell you, if she hedges and refuses to address the obvious, you need to back away and stop all contact. If she pretends that your date was just an innocent supper with a friend and she never meant to lead you on, then she's lying (to you, to herself, or both), and big Trouble*. Stop all contact. If she's unsure what she's doing, that's not totally unsurprising; basically, you take it from there - ask her to get in touch if she decides that she wants to divorce and would like to explore the possibility of a relationship with you, or decide if you want to hang in there and see what might develop in this weird fringe area. If she says she's been thinking of you, and wanted to see how it might be between you... well, again - that's all you.
BUT, whatever you do, Do Not become (or continue being) her guy-buddy-friend-confidante for her marriage woes - not in person, not by email, not by IM, phone, letter or carrier pigeon. If she wants to talk about you and her, well that's possibly peachy; if she wants to talk about her and her husband, then you are some third wheel on a very unstable cart, and she is definitely not interested in any real romance with you. All efforts to cast you in that confidante role after the initial disclosure (that may have been just letting you know how things stand) must be burned with fire.
This may not be direct advice about how to eliminate, redirect, corral, or taper off these maddening thoughts, but it would be a step I would need to take before I could successfully use any/all of the above methods (Squee's ideas are the most congenial to me, personally) to to accomplish that.
* Speaking as a woman, in my opinion it would be a very, very naive and/or stupid/cruel/disturbed woman to set up this super-intimate scenario (cooking together, lots of wine, deeply personal disclosures, foot massage, etc.), complete with explicit language about wanting sex, if she wasn't trying to seduce our hero. With extremely few exceptions, you might tell girlfriends or your gay guy friend you "need penis," but you don't disclose this to a ready, willing, and able penis-possessor unless you are looking for action or setting up some sick drama.
posted by taz at 6:43 AM on October 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
There are a lot of good suggestions here, but here's a tip for work: alphabetize things. Or balance your budget. I think I once heard the neurochemistry behind this. It works great for shifting out of an emotional state.
posted by salvia at 10:11 AM on October 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 10:11 AM on October 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
By "it," as in "it works great," I mean anything detailed and left-brained.
posted by salvia at 10:20 AM on October 14, 2009
posted by salvia at 10:20 AM on October 14, 2009
Long before I met my wife, I would get into these kinds of situations a lot, and the only thing that helped me stop was realizing that I was confusing what might be with what is.
A number of people have told you that cutting off contact is the only way to move past this, and I'm going to reluctantly second them. Getting some distance from her will allow you to deal with what is, which is this:
She also needs to work out her issues on her own, and you getting sucked into that whole whirlwind is a disaster waiting to happen, even if you're doing so as "just a friend".
If it's meant to be, it will happen organically and naturally. Continued contact, under the emotionally fraught circumstances, isn't good for anyone.
posted by scrump at 4:22 PM on October 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
A number of people have told you that cutting off contact is the only way to move past this, and I'm going to reluctantly second them. Getting some distance from her will allow you to deal with what is, which is this:
- She's married.
- This is an insurmountable barrier for you, ethically.
- If you continue to fantasize, you risk breaching your code of ethics.
She also needs to work out her issues on her own, and you getting sucked into that whole whirlwind is a disaster waiting to happen, even if you're doing so as "just a friend".
If it's meant to be, it will happen organically and naturally. Continued contact, under the emotionally fraught circumstances, isn't good for anyone.
posted by scrump at 4:22 PM on October 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
« Older Is there a website that generates solid-color... | Seeking good reading material for a friend. Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
She called you out of the blue because she's thinking very seriously of leaving her husband, and she needed the attention she knows she can get from you for the ego boost to remember that if she does leave her husband, she will be able to attract a new man and that men do find her interesting, charming and attractive. She didn't necessarily do this consciously, exactly, but that's the underlying reason. She knows you've always had feelings for her, correct?
It's not you, it's your interest in her, that she was flirting with (at a PG-13 level). I'm sure she likes you and your company, if she found you off-putting or weird, no amount of interest you showed in her would make her feel better -- but make no mistake -- she doesn't harbor a deep, unfanned flame of love for you that's been re-ignited over a lovely meal (as you have). She allowed you to flirt with her because she needed the ego boost and the attention, and she was unable to draw the line as she was previously in your friendship. That line WILL get drawn again, eventually.
I don't know that your friendship will be beneficial for her at all, because of her personal situation, she may be less likely to avoid your advances and will find your interest in her fills a void that she needs filled, but if she's a good person, she will feel bad that she's toying with your emotions, because she is. It certainly is not beneficial to you. You obviously deserve to find someone you have a real spark with.
posted by pazazygeek at 10:57 AM on October 13, 2009 [26 favorites]