I'm from here! I swear!
October 10, 2009 8:20 AM Subscribe
How okay is it to comment that someone's answer to "Where are you from?" is inaccurate, or even a lie?
Inspired by this question, I was wondering about my own identity "where I'm from" etiquette problem I've run into.
I was born in Canada, and have been living in North Carolina for 17 of my 23 years. I love the Triangle, and it's where I plan to make my home permanently. If someone asks me where I'm from, I reply with "NC" or "Chapel Hill" without hesitation. Recently, a conversation with a new friend revealed that my (extended) family still lives in Canada, and he accused me of lying about where I was from (since I'd originally told him I was from "right around here"). He told me the "correct" answer was Toronto, and I could then explain that NC is my home now yadda yadda yadda.
Is that true? I hate going into the long explanation of "yeah, we moved a lot, immigration is crazy, my family lives far away, no I don't speak French, no I'm not a Socialist, yes I do like ham" that tends to follow from saying I'm Canadian. It's not something I hide, but not something I mention in short, polite conversations. Saying North Carolina is pretty much easier.
Settle it, hivemind - is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?" or is there room for identifying yourself with a place of your choosing? Should I sew red maple leafs onto my clothes?
Inspired by this question, I was wondering about my own identity "where I'm from" etiquette problem I've run into.
I was born in Canada, and have been living in North Carolina for 17 of my 23 years. I love the Triangle, and it's where I plan to make my home permanently. If someone asks me where I'm from, I reply with "NC" or "Chapel Hill" without hesitation. Recently, a conversation with a new friend revealed that my (extended) family still lives in Canada, and he accused me of lying about where I was from (since I'd originally told him I was from "right around here"). He told me the "correct" answer was Toronto, and I could then explain that NC is my home now yadda yadda yadda.
Is that true? I hate going into the long explanation of "yeah, we moved a lot, immigration is crazy, my family lives far away, no I don't speak French, no I'm not a Socialist, yes I do like ham" that tends to follow from saying I'm Canadian. It's not something I hide, but not something I mention in short, polite conversations. Saying North Carolina is pretty much easier.
Settle it, hivemind - is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?" or is there room for identifying yourself with a place of your choosing? Should I sew red maple leafs onto my clothes?
Personally I don't like it when people say they're from San Francisco when they're actually from some suburb in the East Bay or the Peninsula. But that's just me
posted by MattMangels at 8:24 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by MattMangels at 8:24 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Your friend sounds like a douche bag. You can say you're from the moon, for all I care; if you're a good person, it doesn't matter. Is that guy conducting a census? Tell him to get over it, and welcome to NC :)
posted by littlerobothead at 8:29 AM on October 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by littlerobothead at 8:29 AM on October 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
I moved most of my young life (from 4-8) and for a while when i got to austin still claimed detroit (even though i didn't really live in detroit, but at 12 the motor city made you seem cooler) now going on 15 years in one place i think it's safe to say that i am "from" here. I am asked this question constantly as i go to a school here in town that is pretty much inhabited by the upper middle class of houston. Everyone wants to know where you are from and pretty much i am a local. If i feel it needs more explonation i will explain more, but i'm not a liar for saying that.
posted by djduckie at 8:30 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by djduckie at 8:30 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
So you moved to North Carolina when you were 6? I'd say that's early enough to say that you're from North Carolina.
posted by kylej at 8:30 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kylej at 8:30 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think MattMangel's example is a little bit different (we get the same thing in the DC area -- sorry, kids, Springfield is not "DC." I will give people a pass on saying "DC area" though). I think it depends on where you are -- are you in North Carolina when someone's asking you where you're from? Then maybe the appropriate answer is "Originally Canada" followed by "but I've been here for most of my life" or "I grew up here" or whatever. If you're not in North Carolina, I think "Where are you from?" mostly means "Where do you live?" and should be interpreted as such.
Me, I wasn't born in Virginia, but I've been here most of my life. And since I've been in Arlington for 7 years, that's where I'm likely to say I'm "from" when asked.
posted by darksong at 8:31 AM on October 10, 2009
Me, I wasn't born in Virginia, but I've been here most of my life. And since I've been in Arlington for 7 years, that's where I'm likely to say I'm "from" when asked.
posted by darksong at 8:31 AM on October 10, 2009
It's bad form to comment as your friend did, and you did nothing wrong in saying you're from North Carolina.
This can cut both ways. I was born in SE Asia, of American parents on mission for the US government. I moved back to the states before I was old enough to have solid memories of the place. It would be absurd for me to say "I'm from [small SE Asian country]" when someone casually asks where I'm from. Given racial and religious politics in the US, it would be even more absurd.
On the other hand, because I grew up in DC, where part of the story told by many white people here to many other white people here is that "almost no one is actually from DC," I usually say "I'm from DC...Well, I was born elsewhere, but I grew up here." This seems to cover things, and it preempts a conversation that elides over half the city in it's premise.
posted by OmieWise at 8:34 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
This can cut both ways. I was born in SE Asia, of American parents on mission for the US government. I moved back to the states before I was old enough to have solid memories of the place. It would be absurd for me to say "I'm from [small SE Asian country]" when someone casually asks where I'm from. Given racial and religious politics in the US, it would be even more absurd.
On the other hand, because I grew up in DC, where part of the story told by many white people here to many other white people here is that "almost no one is actually from DC," I usually say "I'm from DC...Well, I was born elsewhere, but I grew up here." This seems to cover things, and it preempts a conversation that elides over half the city in it's premise.
posted by OmieWise at 8:34 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
What's wrong with "I was born in Canada but I grew up in North Carolina"? You can 'identify yourself' with all manner of places, but that's not really what's being asked after with "Where are you from?"
I wouldn't think 'liar' in your friend's place but I would wonder to myself if you were disinterested in being friends with me; there would be a little 'Oh, so only katybird's inner circle knows she's a secret Canadian? Feh' thought.
posted by kmennie at 8:37 AM on October 10, 2009
I wouldn't think 'liar' in your friend's place but I would wonder to myself if you were disinterested in being friends with me; there would be a little 'Oh, so only katybird's inner circle knows she's a secret Canadian? Feh' thought.
posted by kmennie at 8:37 AM on October 10, 2009
No one except, say, the government has any right to ask you that question, and certainly does not have the right to call you a liar.
Anyway, I lived in Japan for ten years, and I'm not Japanese. However, because I learned to speak the local dialect first and then standard Japanese, and because my son was born there and my wife is from there, and because all our friends and family are there, when speaking to Japanese people I often say "We are from XXX-prefecture."
It sounds a little unusual, but I totally identify with the place.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:41 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I lived in Japan for ten years, and I'm not Japanese. However, because I learned to speak the local dialect first and then standard Japanese, and because my son was born there and my wife is from there, and because all our friends and family are there, when speaking to Japanese people I often say "We are from XXX-prefecture."
It sounds a little unusual, but I totally identify with the place.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:41 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Southerners are much more tribal than other Americans, and (what seem to us to be) fine distinctions in nativity/origination/ethnicities, for them serve to arrange a whole quilt of feuds and social class differences , which in turn lead to differences in rank, closeness, and privilege. Think tribal Afghanistan or the Scottish borderlands, not cosmopolitan Paris.
Your Southerner friend was worried that by mis-categorizing you (and perhaps misrepresenting you to his friends/family), he'd jeopardized his own social standing.
And the South is an honor society: men are taught form an early age to fight to protect their honor (i.e., social standing), with overwhelming violence if necessary. Studies have shown that Southerners are quicker to anger than Northerners, and more apt to show measurable physical signs of stress over small slights Northerners blow off or take in stride.
What to you is a small omission, comes across to him as a lie and more importantly as disrespect that by itself threatens his social standing, if others learn of that he did not respond to your "lie" fiercely enough to "reclaim" his besmirched honor.
posted by orthogonality at 8:44 AM on October 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
Your Southerner friend was worried that by mis-categorizing you (and perhaps misrepresenting you to his friends/family), he'd jeopardized his own social standing.
And the South is an honor society: men are taught form an early age to fight to protect their honor (i.e., social standing), with overwhelming violence if necessary. Studies have shown that Southerners are quicker to anger than Northerners, and more apt to show measurable physical signs of stress over small slights Northerners blow off or take in stride.
What to you is a small omission, comes across to him as a lie and more importantly as disrespect that by itself threatens his social standing, if others learn of that he did not respond to your "lie" fiercely enough to "reclaim" his besmirched honor.
posted by orthogonality at 8:44 AM on October 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
In my opinion, where you are from, and where you were born, are two different things.
Your birthplace is a pretty clearly defined fact that will never change. But saying where you are from has an emotional component to it. It's the place you live (or used to live) that feels most like home now. In this context, "place" could even be a major city that you live near, but not technically within, if the city is what you identify with.
So the only way someone could legitimately question your claim as to where you are from is if you said it's someplace that you've never actually lived even close to, or if they're telepathic and know your own feelings better than you do.
posted by FishBike at 8:46 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your birthplace is a pretty clearly defined fact that will never change. But saying where you are from has an emotional component to it. It's the place you live (or used to live) that feels most like home now. In this context, "place" could even be a major city that you live near, but not technically within, if the city is what you identify with.
So the only way someone could legitimately question your claim as to where you are from is if you said it's someplace that you've never actually lived even close to, or if they're telepathic and know your own feelings better than you do.
posted by FishBike at 8:46 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
If someone gives you a good-faith answer that's intended to be helpful, and you call them a liar, that's rude.
It doesn't matter what the question was. Hell, it doesn't matter what the right answer was. You say "Hey, that's now how I would have put it," or "Gee, I was under the impression that..." You don't say "You're a liar" unless you're looking for a fight.
So, yes, some people would call you Canadian, some people would say you're from NC, and either way your friend was being a jerk.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:48 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
It doesn't matter what the question was. Hell, it doesn't matter what the right answer was. You say "Hey, that's now how I would have put it," or "Gee, I was under the impression that..." You don't say "You're a liar" unless you're looking for a fight.
So, yes, some people would call you Canadian, some people would say you're from NC, and either way your friend was being a jerk.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:48 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Where my parents were from, where I was conceived, where I was born, where I grew up, and where I most recently lived for years and "came from" are all different places. I usually answer the "where are you from" question with the last two, and the rest are pretty irrelevant. And I do consider myself "from" both those places, though in different respects - if there's anything that can be learned from these questions, it's that the notion of "where I'm from" isn't set in stone.
Your friend, on the other hand, kinda sounds like he's from up his own ass.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:48 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Your friend, on the other hand, kinda sounds like he's from up his own ass.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:48 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?" is there room for identifying yourself with a place of your choosing?
No! You may not get to choose where you are from, per se, but you are by no means obligated to state your place of birth as the place you hail from. Related examples of self-identification: Carson is not my first name, but it is my name. My friend, she was not born a she.
As to dealing with people who are insistent and/or pedantic, just state the distinction with conviction and let them reconcile their own cognitive dissonance.
posted by carsonb at 8:49 AM on October 10, 2009
No! You may not get to choose where you are from, per se, but you are by no means obligated to state your place of birth as the place you hail from. Related examples of self-identification: Carson is not my first name, but it is my name. My friend, she was not born a she.
As to dealing with people who are insistent and/or pedantic, just state the distinction with conviction and let them reconcile their own cognitive dissonance.
posted by carsonb at 8:49 AM on October 10, 2009
Best answer: I think that, for many people, there is more than one correct answer to the question.
Trying to overly-define what is meant by the question is silly. If you want a precise answer, ask a more precisely-worded question.
posted by amtho at 8:54 AM on October 10, 2009
Trying to overly-define what is meant by the question is silly. If you want a precise answer, ask a more precisely-worded question.
posted by amtho at 8:54 AM on October 10, 2009
Anew friend revealed that my (extended) family still lives in Canada, and he accused me of lying about where I was from
Your friend is an idiot.
I hate going into the long explanation of "...no I don't speak French, no I'm not a Socialist, yes I do like ham" that tends to follow from saying I'm Canadian.
These other people you are wasting time with are also idiots.
posted by rokusan at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Your friend is an idiot.
I hate going into the long explanation of "...no I don't speak French, no I'm not a Socialist, yes I do like ham" that tends to follow from saying I'm Canadian.
These other people you are wasting time with are also idiots.
posted by rokusan at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
4-12 not for to 8, i was thinking 8 because it's 8 years.
posted by djduckie at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009
posted by djduckie at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009
Unless you're friends intent was obviously 'where were you born', as determined by its context, 'where are you from' can certainly mean 'where do you identify yourself with?'. Your friend is at best a literalist, at worst, prejudice against 'the other'.
Lots of people move around when they're kids, but most identify with one place above all. If that's North Carolina, so be it.
posted by scrute at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009
Lots of people move around when they're kids, but most identify with one place above all. If that's North Carolina, so be it.
posted by scrute at 8:55 AM on October 10, 2009
Where are you from is where you are living right now, where did you grow up is the location which shaped who you the most as a person, where were you born is the only question where there is no wiggle room. If someone chooses to call you a liar for telling them what you and most others consider the truth I suggest you pull a Mike Brady on them and say that our relationship from now on will be base on nothing but exact literal meaning so there can be no more misunderstanding between the both of you. Maybe even get a lawyer to draw up a contract to determine the exact meaning of each word so there can me no loopholes. Yeah, your friend was being a xenophobic dick.
posted by any major dude at 9:10 AM on October 10, 2009
posted by any major dude at 9:10 AM on October 10, 2009
The Research Triangle is not the rural/deep South, your new friend is not having his honor impinged by you claiming the place you've lived since first grade as your home, and you have nothing to worry about...except trying to befriend mean-spirited pedants.
I grew up in DC, where part of the story told by many white people here to many other white people here is that "almost no one is actually from DC"
It still kind of shocks me how many people I know in DC who actually are from the area. It's much less transitory than I expected.
posted by kittyprecious at 9:22 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I grew up in DC, where part of the story told by many white people here to many other white people here is that "almost no one is actually from DC"
It still kind of shocks me how many people I know in DC who actually are from the area. It's much less transitory than I expected.
posted by kittyprecious at 9:22 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
wow...
for everyone but one person, the answer is whatever you want to answer.....
for your new "friend" (and, you might want to change his status early on here!) the answer is "none of your frigging business".
posted by HuronBob at 9:24 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
for everyone but one person, the answer is whatever you want to answer.....
for your new "friend" (and, you might want to change his status early on here!) the answer is "none of your frigging business".
posted by HuronBob at 9:24 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, look at it this way: Barack Obama, who is "from" Chicago, grew up in Hawaii. Nancy Pelosi, who is "from" San Francisco, grew up in Baltimore. Sarah Palin, who is "from" Alaska, was born in Idaho. The Bushes were pretty much all born in New England, but George W. gets to claim Texas as his home and the only one who was born in Texas was governor of Florida.
posted by kittyprecious at 9:29 AM on October 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by kittyprecious at 9:29 AM on October 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
simply "I grew up in North Carolina" is a correct and appropriate answer.
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:35 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:35 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
You're from wherever you feel you're from. You know which places have shaped who you are better than anyone else.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:46 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:46 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I suspect your "friend" is living in the somewhat mythical past, where people were born and raised someplace, and probably their parents were as well, so that "where are you from" actually had some kind of significance (sort of). However, today in the modern world a lot of people are a lot more mobile, and this question has many more complex answers. I get asked this a lot, because I work in a job where I meet a lot of people who are just in town for a few days, and they are often from some other country, so they are curious about me. I've thought about how to answer, and how much to answer, a lot. I was born in Germany (father was U.S. Civil Service with a job there) and so we were there for about a year, then California till I was 3, then France till I was 6, then Pennsylvania till I was 10, then New Jersey till 23, then VA after that. In terms of how long I have lived in any one place, VA would be it, but in terms of where I am from, I am never quite sure how to answer. I usually just say I was born in Germany, grew up in the PA and NJ suburbs of Philadelphia, and live in VA.
For you, I think kmennie has it. Say "I was born in Canada but I grew up in North Carolina." If someone pushes about Canada, you can say some version of "Canada is a nice country, a nice place to visit, and I have a lot of family still living there, but I don't know it all that well".
Really though, you have to wonder a bit about why this new "friend" is pushing you for such specificity, and calling you a liar when you choose not to give him every single detail of your life on early acquaintance.
Also, isn't it a better question, when you are trying to get to know someone (if that is what he was trying to do), to ask them what they consider are the things and places are that have made them who they are?
posted by gudrun at 9:53 AM on October 10, 2009
For you, I think kmennie has it. Say "I was born in Canada but I grew up in North Carolina." If someone pushes about Canada, you can say some version of "Canada is a nice country, a nice place to visit, and I have a lot of family still living there, but I don't know it all that well".
Really though, you have to wonder a bit about why this new "friend" is pushing you for such specificity, and calling you a liar when you choose not to give him every single detail of your life on early acquaintance.
Also, isn't it a better question, when you are trying to get to know someone (if that is what he was trying to do), to ask them what they consider are the things and places are that have made them who they are?
posted by gudrun at 9:53 AM on October 10, 2009
argh, need more caffeine, that last line should be: "... to ask then what they consider are the things and places that have made them who they are?"
posted by gudrun at 9:55 AM on October 10, 2009
posted by gudrun at 9:55 AM on October 10, 2009
I spent last year in a town I really liked, but I ran across a thing I didn't enjoy where some people would ask "where are you from?" in order to sort of place you socially, to figure out who your people were. My friend had an answer I really liked, delivered in a friendly way and followed by a shift to asking about them:
Where are you from?
"I live in [town]."
The suggestion above of "I grew up in North Carolina" sounds good for quashing any follow-ups. But seriously, unless someone's a good enough friend to have your life's timeline pretty much down, it's ok not to oblige their continued efforts to dig for information.
posted by carbide at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2009
Where are you from?
"I live in [town]."
The suggestion above of "I grew up in North Carolina" sounds good for quashing any follow-ups. But seriously, unless someone's a good enough friend to have your life's timeline pretty much down, it's ok not to oblige their continued efforts to dig for information.
posted by carbide at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2009
"Where are you from" and "where were you born" are two different questions. I was born in Georgia, but I've never lived there for more than a few weeks. I would feel like I was lying (or at least being deliberately misleading) if I were to tell anyone that I was "from" Georgia.
You've spent almost 75% of your life in North Carolina - you're certainly entitled to say that you are from there.
posted by tdismukes at 10:05 AM on October 10, 2009
You've spent almost 75% of your life in North Carolina - you're certainly entitled to say that you are from there.
posted by tdismukes at 10:05 AM on October 10, 2009
The Triangle may not be the rural/deep South, but everything orthogonality said could still apply to the friend. That roots thing...
posted by jgirl at 10:06 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jgirl at 10:06 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's all about one's interpretation of what "from" means. There's no right or wrong answer. And if someone else interprets it a different way, he's not being a "douchebag".
What's wrong with saying "I'm from Canada but now I live here".
posted by Zambrano at 10:13 AM on October 10, 2009
What's wrong with saying "I'm from Canada but now I live here".
posted by Zambrano at 10:13 AM on October 10, 2009
> For you, I think kmennie has it. Say "I was born in Canada but I grew up in North Carolina."
That's ridiculous. Did you read what kmennie wrote? "I wouldn't think 'liar' in your friend's place but I would wonder to myself if you were disinterested in being friends with me; there would be a little 'Oh, so only katybird's inner circle knows she's a secret Canadian? Feh' thought." That puts kmennie squarely in the friend's paranoid/xenophobic camp. I join with the consensus here: you're from wherever you feel right in saying you're from, and anybody who doesn't like it can go find whatever native-born company they prefer.
Me, I used to sigh whenever I was asked the question because there was no short answer: born in Tokyo, lived all over, went to college in California, moved East for grad school... But now I just say "I'm from New York," because I lived there for 23 years and I'll always be a New Yorker in my heart, and if anyone objects, they can suck on my best NYC insults, plus I'll direct them the wrong way next time they want to know which direction Broadway is in.
posted by languagehat at 10:14 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
That's ridiculous. Did you read what kmennie wrote? "I wouldn't think 'liar' in your friend's place but I would wonder to myself if you were disinterested in being friends with me; there would be a little 'Oh, so only katybird's inner circle knows she's a secret Canadian? Feh' thought." That puts kmennie squarely in the friend's paranoid/xenophobic camp. I join with the consensus here: you're from wherever you feel right in saying you're from, and anybody who doesn't like it can go find whatever native-born company they prefer.
Me, I used to sigh whenever I was asked the question because there was no short answer: born in Tokyo, lived all over, went to college in California, moved East for grad school... But now I just say "I'm from New York," because I lived there for 23 years and I'll always be a New Yorker in my heart, and if anyone objects, they can suck on my best NYC insults, plus I'll direct them the wrong way next time they want to know which direction Broadway is in.
posted by languagehat at 10:14 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
> What's wrong with saying "I'm from Canada but now I live here".
Because it's not the truth, for her. And if anyone thinks she should give some answer that doesn't feel right to her to appease some douchebag who thinks she's a liar for telling what to her is the truth, that person is... well, I'll just say wrong.
posted by languagehat at 10:15 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Because it's not the truth, for her. And if anyone thinks she should give some answer that doesn't feel right to her to appease some douchebag who thinks she's a liar for telling what to her is the truth, that person is... well, I'll just say wrong.
posted by languagehat at 10:15 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Southerners are much more tribal than other Americans,
While the rest of Orthogonality's comment was on the hyperbolic side, this seems to me (as a European who has frequently visited the North America) to be true.
That is, American Southerners have a sense of identity and history that most closely matches my own. When someone asks "where are you from?" they are also asking about your roots, and about your family, your history.
The highly individualistic nature of most of US (& Canadian) culture means that for most Americans, their sense of personal history begins at their birth, or maybe when their parents met. This is much less true in the South.
There's nothing wrong with either view of identity, but you just experienced a clash between the two.
posted by atrazine at 10:22 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
While the rest of Orthogonality's comment was on the hyperbolic side, this seems to me (as a European who has frequently visited the North America) to be true.
That is, American Southerners have a sense of identity and history that most closely matches my own. When someone asks "where are you from?" they are also asking about your roots, and about your family, your history.
The highly individualistic nature of most of US (& Canadian) culture means that for most Americans, their sense of personal history begins at their birth, or maybe when their parents met. This is much less true in the South.
There's nothing wrong with either view of identity, but you just experienced a clash between the two.
posted by atrazine at 10:22 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?"
Of course not. My father was in the Air Force and I was born in a military hospital in a place far from either of my parents' origins. I haven't the slightest idea "where I'm from" but I can tell people where I've been. I think the best answer for "where you're from" is the place that you identify with.
posted by Robert Angelo at 10:23 AM on October 10, 2009
Of course not. My father was in the Air Force and I was born in a military hospital in a place far from either of my parents' origins. I haven't the slightest idea "where I'm from" but I can tell people where I've been. I think the best answer for "where you're from" is the place that you identify with.
posted by Robert Angelo at 10:23 AM on October 10, 2009
If you really think you're from NC you're from NC. You've been there long enough to say that.
My wife and have been living in SC for the last few years (5?). She says she's "from SC" when people ask (generally when we're out of state of abroad). She's _from_ New York in my opinion and hasn't been living in SC long enough to "earn" the right to say she's from SC. But that's my opinion, if she wants to say she's from SC who am I to argue?
I on the other hand still say I'm from the UK after living in the US for almost 11 years. Not sure at what point, if ever, I'll be able to flip that switch.
posted by schwa at 10:29 AM on October 10, 2009
My wife and have been living in SC for the last few years (5?). She says she's "from SC" when people ask (generally when we're out of state of abroad). She's _from_ New York in my opinion and hasn't been living in SC long enough to "earn" the right to say she's from SC. But that's my opinion, if she wants to say she's from SC who am I to argue?
I on the other hand still say I'm from the UK after living in the US for almost 11 years. Not sure at what point, if ever, I'll be able to flip that switch.
posted by schwa at 10:29 AM on October 10, 2009
Yep, I read what kmennie wrote, I just think that phrase is short and sweet, and could be an acceptable answer, even if this part of the comment is overly harsh: "I wouldn't think 'liar' in your friend's place but I would wonder to myself if you were disinterested in being friends with me."
I also speculate that if katybird's new "friend" is thinking of himself as a potential love interest, and interpreted katybird's answer as holding back, that he was hurt by that and lashed out; i.e. "I want to know all about you but you didn't tell me the "truth."" He's still wrong to call her a liar, of course.
posted by gudrun at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009
I also speculate that if katybird's new "friend" is thinking of himself as a potential love interest, and interpreted katybird's answer as holding back, that he was hurt by that and lashed out; i.e. "I want to know all about you but you didn't tell me the "truth."" He's still wrong to call her a liar, of course.
posted by gudrun at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009
He told me the "correct" answer was Toronto, and I could then explain that NC is my home now yadda yadda yadda.
He corrected you, and then informed you that you ought to explain the situation better in future? And not only that, he told you how to explain it? I'm sitting here with my mouth open in shock.
You were perfectly correct to say North Carolina, given that you've spent 17 years living there. That's far more than enough time to call the place home.
is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?"
They are two completely different questions that occasionally have the same answer. So, I'm going to go with them never being the same question. Even the words used are different.
posted by Solomon at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009
He corrected you, and then informed you that you ought to explain the situation better in future? And not only that, he told you how to explain it? I'm sitting here with my mouth open in shock.
You were perfectly correct to say North Carolina, given that you've spent 17 years living there. That's far more than enough time to call the place home.
is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?"
They are two completely different questions that occasionally have the same answer. So, I'm going to go with them never being the same question. Even the words used are different.
posted by Solomon at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009
You get to define where you're "from," just like you get to define what constitutes your "family." The kind of people who have a problem with this are generally not very rewarding to hang around with anyway. I'd consider this exchange a useful early warning of unpleasant rigidity and fractiousness in this person, and move on.
posted by HotToddy at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sports often provide a quick answer to this, you dont even have to be a sports fan (in fact it probably works better if youre not) just imagine Canada playing North Carolina in some team game, which side would you support? Thats your answer.
When or how long you stayed in a place counts for nothing, it's where your heart is.
posted by Lanark at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2009
When or how long you stayed in a place counts for nothing, it's where your heart is.
posted by Lanark at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2009
Heh. I've debated this with my wife any number of times. My wife was born in Toronto, grew up there and then went to University there. She's from Toronto.
My parents were living on a fly-in-access-only Cree Reservation on James Bay when I was born. There was no doctor on the Reservation, so my mother flew to Toronto. I was born at Scarborough General Hospital and then, when I was three days old, my mother and I flew back up to the Reservation.
When I was one year old, my parents moved back to southern Ontario, to a quiet little rural village about 150km from Toronto and which no one has ever heard of. That's where I grew up and that's where I lived until I was nineteen and moved into the city.
I lived in Toronto for eight years and met my wife there. When I was living in Toronto and anyone asked me where I was from, I would say: "I'm from out in the country." If they asked for more information, I'd give them the name of the village. When they acknowledged that they didn't know where that was, I'd say: "Well, get on the 401 and drive east until there's not much around, then get off the highway and drive north until there's nothing at all. You're there."
Anyway, we've spent the last three years living in Europe and the States. So now, when people ask, I say I'm from Canada. If they want more detail, I say I'm from Toronto. Except that, if my wife is around--despite the fact that I was born in Toronto and lived in the city as an adult for nearly a decade, and further despite the fact that I'm only saying I'm from Toronto so as to not needlessly specify some tiny place no one has ever heard of--she always corrects me. "No," she says, "I'm from Toronto. 256 is from outside Toronto."
I love her dearly, and I know that, in a certain sense this is more about MattMangels' point than your original question, but what I'm getting at is this: For some people, what makes them be from where they are from is important and specifically defined.
posted by 256 at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
My parents were living on a fly-in-access-only Cree Reservation on James Bay when I was born. There was no doctor on the Reservation, so my mother flew to Toronto. I was born at Scarborough General Hospital and then, when I was three days old, my mother and I flew back up to the Reservation.
When I was one year old, my parents moved back to southern Ontario, to a quiet little rural village about 150km from Toronto and which no one has ever heard of. That's where I grew up and that's where I lived until I was nineteen and moved into the city.
I lived in Toronto for eight years and met my wife there. When I was living in Toronto and anyone asked me where I was from, I would say: "I'm from out in the country." If they asked for more information, I'd give them the name of the village. When they acknowledged that they didn't know where that was, I'd say: "Well, get on the 401 and drive east until there's not much around, then get off the highway and drive north until there's nothing at all. You're there."
Anyway, we've spent the last three years living in Europe and the States. So now, when people ask, I say I'm from Canada. If they want more detail, I say I'm from Toronto. Except that, if my wife is around--despite the fact that I was born in Toronto and lived in the city as an adult for nearly a decade, and further despite the fact that I'm only saying I'm from Toronto so as to not needlessly specify some tiny place no one has ever heard of--she always corrects me. "No," she says, "I'm from Toronto. 256 is from outside Toronto."
I love her dearly, and I know that, in a certain sense this is more about MattMangels' point than your original question, but what I'm getting at is this: For some people, what makes them be from where they are from is important and specifically defined.
posted by 256 at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Settle it, hivemind - is "where are you from?" always "where were you born?" or is there room for identifying yourself with a place of your choosing? Should I sew red maple leafs onto my clothes?
Like a lot of things, your question mostly depends on context.
If you are speaking with someone casually at a party in, say, Greensboro, then "I'm from RTP (or however Carolinans say it)" is perfectly acceptable.
If you are speaking to perhaps a co-worker, you might go with "I'm from."
But if you're in a conversation about childhood or origins, it would be disingenuous to say "I'm from North Carolina" without at least mentioning Canada.
Only in context can you really decide which answer is appropriate.
Living where I do now, the question of "Where are you from" comes up a lot. The real question, of course, is really "Are you a native"?
I expect that in a lot of places, like North Carolina, that have had a major influx of out-of-staters, "Where are you from" means the same thing.
posted by madajb at 10:50 AM on October 10, 2009
Like a lot of things, your question mostly depends on context.
If you are speaking with someone casually at a party in, say, Greensboro, then "I'm from RTP (or however Carolinans say it)" is perfectly acceptable.
If you are speaking to perhaps a co-worker, you might go with "I'm from
But if you're in a conversation about childhood or origins, it would be disingenuous to say "I'm from North Carolina" without at least mentioning Canada.
Only in context can you really decide which answer is appropriate.
Living where I do now, the question of "Where are you from" comes up a lot. The real question, of course, is really "Are you a native"?
I expect that in a lot of places, like North Carolina, that have had a major influx of out-of-staters, "Where are you from" means the same thing.
posted by madajb at 10:50 AM on October 10, 2009
Sports often provide a quick answer to this, you dont even have to be a sports fan (in fact it probably works better if youre not) just imagine Canada playing North Carolina in some team game, which side would you support? Thats your answer.
When or how long you stayed in a place counts for nothing, it's where your heart is.
posted by Lanark at 10:43 AM on October 10 [+] [!]
Not so simple.
You get to define where you're "from," just like you get to define what constitutes your "family." The kind of people who have a problem with this are generally not very rewarding to hang around with anyway. I'd consider this exchange a useful early warning of unpleasant rigidity and fractiousness in this person, and move on.
posted by HotToddy at 10:31 AM on October 10 [+] [!]
I kind of wish I was an American, it must be enormously liberating to feel that you can start over and define these things for yourself. I guess that's the great genius of the US that attracts so many people.
posted by atrazine at 11:01 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
When or how long you stayed in a place counts for nothing, it's where your heart is.
posted by Lanark at 10:43 AM on October 10 [+] [!]
Not so simple.
You get to define where you're "from," just like you get to define what constitutes your "family." The kind of people who have a problem with this are generally not very rewarding to hang around with anyway. I'd consider this exchange a useful early warning of unpleasant rigidity and fractiousness in this person, and move on.
posted by HotToddy at 10:31 AM on October 10 [+] [!]
I kind of wish I was an American, it must be enormously liberating to feel that you can start over and define these things for yourself. I guess that's the great genius of the US that attracts so many people.
posted by atrazine at 11:01 AM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Listen, it all boils down to this - you didn't know this person well enough yet to know exactly what he was asking about. You said yourself he was your new friend. To him, your answer felt dishonest, like you were trying to hide something from him. He was trying to ask about your childhood, your family, your roots - the works. You interpreted his question as being just about you - not your family & ancestors. He's not a dick or a douchebag, and everyone suggesting that is being overly harsh.
I'm from the south, and I admit it - if you would've told me you were from North Carolina, I would've found it a little odd, but I never would've called you on it. I've met several people who, unlike you, had only lived in a place for just a couple years before they started saying they were "from" there. It doesn't jibe with me, but I recognize that that doesn't mean it's wrong or necessarily dishonest.
posted by pecanpies at 11:06 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm from the south, and I admit it - if you would've told me you were from North Carolina, I would've found it a little odd, but I never would've called you on it. I've met several people who, unlike you, had only lived in a place for just a couple years before they started saying they were "from" there. It doesn't jibe with me, but I recognize that that doesn't mean it's wrong or necessarily dishonest.
posted by pecanpies at 11:06 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ok, I suppose "ancestors" was a stretch - I doubt he was asking about your great-great-great-grandma. But I hope you get my point. His question encompassed more than your answer. He was asking for facts, you gave him more of a personal opinion. Neither of you is wrong.
posted by pecanpies at 11:08 AM on October 10, 2009
posted by pecanpies at 11:08 AM on October 10, 2009
File this douchebag under "ex-friend". Calls you a liar? Tells you how to correctly identify yourself?
That is so many kinds of out-of-line, the mind boggles. Unless there is a compelling professional reason to exchange conversation with this ass-munch again, I'd give them the "You're dead to me" treatment.
You want to get all "genteel" on their tribal Southern ass, look them straight in the eye and say "I don't know you", technically a "cut direct".
17 out of 23 years in NC, and they get their knickers in a twist about "You're not really from here? Tell your former friend to go suck a tailpipe. You don't need people like that in your life.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:14 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
That is so many kinds of out-of-line, the mind boggles. Unless there is a compelling professional reason to exchange conversation with this ass-munch again, I'd give them the "You're dead to me" treatment.
You want to get all "genteel" on their tribal Southern ass, look them straight in the eye and say "I don't know you", technically a "cut direct".
17 out of 23 years in NC, and they get their knickers in a twist about "You're not really from here? Tell your former friend to go suck a tailpipe. You don't need people like that in your life.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:14 AM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
orthogonality is plain wrong. It is not a purely "southern" thing to do what your friend did. They have rude assholes everywhere, including the northern half of the United States, surprisingly enough. It's actually more accurate that southerners are less likely to call you out because southerners are generally far less blunt with their friends than northerners. I am a Texan with a dad from Boston, and friends from all over the US, and people from the north call people out way more often than people from the south. It's not always in a rude way, like your friend calling you out on where you're "from."
And nice referring to the south as "tribal," which is kind of stupid on several levels, really.
Anyway, the real bottom line is that your friend is being a dick.
posted by ishotjr at 11:22 AM on October 10, 2009
And nice referring to the south as "tribal," which is kind of stupid on several levels, really.
Anyway, the real bottom line is that your friend is being a dick.
posted by ishotjr at 11:22 AM on October 10, 2009
My two cents -- I interview tons of people for my job and write lots of reports.
What you said sounds great to me. Where you are from and where you were born are different questions, as others above have excellently noted.
Based on what you said, your acquaintance is a jerk, a jerk, a jerk. (I'm repeating just to emphasize the point. If this person is married, I feel sorry for the spouse.)
Ask him any question and if it is not 100% correct, is he lying? (How much do you weigh? How old are you? Is blue your favorite color? Do you remember your 3rd grade teacher's name? etc. etc.)
Sounds like this person has incredibly high standards for others when he wants.
Remember one of the admonitions of "Desiderata": "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit."
If someone unnecessarily and incorrectly impugns your honesty, that certainly suggests they are being vexatious. (Good Russian proverb: "If you destroy a person's reputation you have created a walking corpse." Your situation is no where near that bad, but the other person is a juvenile twit.)
Anyway, you are in the right!
Yours,
Kalepa
posted by Kalepa at 11:35 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
What you said sounds great to me. Where you are from and where you were born are different questions, as others above have excellently noted.
Based on what you said, your acquaintance is a jerk, a jerk, a jerk. (I'm repeating just to emphasize the point. If this person is married, I feel sorry for the spouse.)
Ask him any question and if it is not 100% correct, is he lying? (How much do you weigh? How old are you? Is blue your favorite color? Do you remember your 3rd grade teacher's name? etc. etc.)
Sounds like this person has incredibly high standards for others when he wants.
Remember one of the admonitions of "Desiderata": "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit."
If someone unnecessarily and incorrectly impugns your honesty, that certainly suggests they are being vexatious. (Good Russian proverb: "If you destroy a person's reputation you have created a walking corpse." Your situation is no where near that bad, but the other person is a juvenile twit.)
Anyway, you are in the right!
Yours,
Kalepa
posted by Kalepa at 11:35 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think "I was born in Canada but I grew up in North Carolina" is a pretty good solution to this "problem". Thing is, it's apparently only a problem to your friend who is apparently kind of a jerk. In my opinion, if you moved to NC when you were five years old, you're not really from Canada. You and a person who did grow up in Canada probably had very different experiences growing up. Your experience growing up probably had a lot more in common with someone who was born in NC. That's mostly what people want to know when they ask where you're from- they want enough information that they can establish what common ground you have.
Also, if you start mentioning that you were born in Canada every time someone asks where you're from, my impression would be that being born in Canada is a part of your identity. I might actually think it was kinda weird that you still thought of yourself as first Canadian, then from NC, when you hadn't lived in Canada since you were five. Clearly, this doesn't apply to you and your identity, so I don't think you should actually mention it unless you feel like being scrupulously honest.
Annnd finally, an example of how I handle this: I'm from Plano, TX which is a suburb of Dallas. Since coming to college, I've handled this mostly by saying I'm from Dallas. I feel a little uncomfortable misrepresenting myself that way, but the fact is Plano means nothing to most people I meet up here. They've probably heard of Dallas, or at least know it's a city in Texas. To save myself the follow up question ("Oh... Where's that?") that would come after "I'm from Plano", I just say Dallas. If I know the person who asked the question is also from Texas, I'll say Plano. If I go abroad next year, I'll probably just say Texas. Basically, I answer on the lowest level of specificity I assume the question-asker has, and am prepared to narrow it down from there if they're interested.
posted by MadamM at 11:40 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, if you start mentioning that you were born in Canada every time someone asks where you're from, my impression would be that being born in Canada is a part of your identity. I might actually think it was kinda weird that you still thought of yourself as first Canadian, then from NC, when you hadn't lived in Canada since you were five. Clearly, this doesn't apply to you and your identity, so I don't think you should actually mention it unless you feel like being scrupulously honest.
Annnd finally, an example of how I handle this: I'm from Plano, TX which is a suburb of Dallas. Since coming to college, I've handled this mostly by saying I'm from Dallas. I feel a little uncomfortable misrepresenting myself that way, but the fact is Plano means nothing to most people I meet up here. They've probably heard of Dallas, or at least know it's a city in Texas. To save myself the follow up question ("Oh... Where's that?") that would come after "I'm from Plano", I just say Dallas. If I know the person who asked the question is also from Texas, I'll say Plano. If I go abroad next year, I'll probably just say Texas. Basically, I answer on the lowest level of specificity I assume the question-asker has, and am prepared to narrow it down from there if they're interested.
posted by MadamM at 11:40 AM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I grew up in Taranaki and Aberdeen, but I'm definitely a Wellingtonian by choice.
I've work with a bunch of Indians over the years - the ones who are in NZ to make money so they can go home richer are Indians. The ones who set up here for the long term - raising their families, for example - are Kiwis, who were born in India as far as I'm concerned.
Your "friend" is being an ass. Perhaps you should tell him he's really from England (or where ever) and suggest any clims to be an American are lies.
posted by rodgerd at 12:06 PM on October 10, 2009
I've work with a bunch of Indians over the years - the ones who are in NZ to make money so they can go home richer are Indians. The ones who set up here for the long term - raising their families, for example - are Kiwis, who were born in India as far as I'm concerned.
Your "friend" is being an ass. Perhaps you should tell him he's really from England (or where ever) and suggest any clims to be an American are lies.
posted by rodgerd at 12:06 PM on October 10, 2009
Mod note: few comments removed - if we can answer without overgeneralized stereotypes that insult other users, this will go much better, thank you
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:06 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:06 PM on October 10, 2009
What to you is a small omission, comes across to him as a lie and more importantly as disrespect that by itself threatens his social standing, if others learn of that he did not respond to your "lie" fiercely enough to "reclaim" his besmirched honor.
I'll second this, and all the comments that say your friend was a bit of an ass. Your answer is your answer, and you have a right to say you're from the moon if you want to. I was born and still live in Atlanta, where the local accent is far less pronounced than in the surrounding areas. When I go to NYC or DC or almost anywhere in the UK, I get comments to the effect of "You sound like you're from Canada," possibly because of the Atlantan-southern accent or lack thereof.
You were born in Canada, but you identify with and grew up in NC. So what if you fail to mention the ol' North of the border? You are, for all intents and purposes, a Southerner now. Congratulations.
posted by neewom at 12:21 PM on October 10, 2009
I'll second this, and all the comments that say your friend was a bit of an ass. Your answer is your answer, and you have a right to say you're from the moon if you want to. I was born and still live in Atlanta, where the local accent is far less pronounced than in the surrounding areas. When I go to NYC or DC or almost anywhere in the UK, I get comments to the effect of "You sound like you're from Canada," possibly because of the Atlantan-southern accent or lack thereof.
You were born in Canada, but you identify with and grew up in NC. So what if you fail to mention the ol' North of the border? You are, for all intents and purposes, a Southerner now. Congratulations.
posted by neewom at 12:21 PM on October 10, 2009
Well now, no one is under any obligation to say where they are born, obviously, when someone asks the question "where are you from." In the specific question being asked by katydid here, the answer is that it really is sufficient for her to say she is *from* NC, especially in a casual conversation with someone you don't know well, and I think most people are in agreement that her "friend" was out of line to call her on it.
My tangential point is that it can sometimes serve a purpose to mention place of birth, depending on context, or even talk about where you lived as a small child, as it can be a jumping off point for conversation of the getting to know you better variety, and some people might actually find it interesting. I know a number of Canadians, my cousins are Canadian, and I would find it interesting. It is not *obligatory*, but I happen to think in katydid's case that Canada *could* be part of her identity (even if this is just the place that she has family), and it is something she can talk about if she wants, or not talk about if she doesn't. I lived in France as a little kid, and it had a place in forming my identity, so it sometimes comes up in conversation. I don't tattoo it on my forehead, but, depending on the circumstances, it is relevant to who I am today. Living as an expat as a kid, being thrust into a new culture and language (I went to French school knowing no French at all), is part of the reason I went on to study Anthropology, I think, so if I am discussing why I chose the career I did, I may bring it up, but it is not like that is a requirement.
As kathrineg says, like all social interactions, it is the context that matters.
posted by gudrun at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2009
My tangential point is that it can sometimes serve a purpose to mention place of birth, depending on context, or even talk about where you lived as a small child, as it can be a jumping off point for conversation of the getting to know you better variety, and some people might actually find it interesting. I know a number of Canadians, my cousins are Canadian, and I would find it interesting. It is not *obligatory*, but I happen to think in katydid's case that Canada *could* be part of her identity (even if this is just the place that she has family), and it is something she can talk about if she wants, or not talk about if she doesn't. I lived in France as a little kid, and it had a place in forming my identity, so it sometimes comes up in conversation. I don't tattoo it on my forehead, but, depending on the circumstances, it is relevant to who I am today. Living as an expat as a kid, being thrust into a new culture and language (I went to French school knowing no French at all), is part of the reason I went on to study Anthropology, I think, so if I am discussing why I chose the career I did, I may bring it up, but it is not like that is a requirement.
As kathrineg says, like all social interactions, it is the context that matters.
posted by gudrun at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2009
Despite having lived for most of my life in Illinois, and for 30 years in Chicago, I always consider myself "from" Philadelphia, where I actually only lived for 9 years as a child. It always feels vaguely like a lie no matter where I say I'm from- Chi or Philly. Not helped by the vestiges of my Philadelphia accent, tempered by some flat Chicago vowels. gak.
Your acquaintance is a idiot. You're "from" wherever you say you're from.
posted by nax at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2009
Your acquaintance is a idiot. You're "from" wherever you say you're from.
posted by nax at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2009
As a Southerner, allow me to say that while we do tend to know a bit more about our "roots" than other people, the reports of our xenophobia are a trifle exaggerated. I have known many people who moved to NC from elsewhere at a young age and said, when asked, that they were from North Carolina. It makes perfect sense to me—even if they have a Russian or Japanese or English accent. They answer with the place that they consider "home" and which has been home to them for the longest time. If that's Asheville or Raleigh rather than Perm or Osaka, then that's their business.
Your "friend" is a douche, plain and simple.
posted by sonic meat machine at 12:55 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your "friend" is a douche, plain and simple.
posted by sonic meat machine at 12:55 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't say I'm "from" anywhere. If I were you I'd answer "where are you from?" with "I've lived here in NC since I was a kid" or "My family moved here 17 years ago." That tells people you identify with NC and de-emphasizes Toronto, which is what you're trying to do.
If they're just trying to get to know you better, they'll follow up with, "Oh? Where did you move from?" and the conversation can go from there.
To me, where you're "from" normally means where you were for your high school and newly-on-your-own years. For lots and lots of people, even that arbitrary definition is too simplistic. If I ask where someone is from like that, I'm just interested in what they say, with whatever explanation they want to give, to get to know them better. If I really wanted to know specifically where you went to high school, I'd ask that.
I think your friend is either a dick (if he really meant it), or just doesn't know how to make conversation very well. He may have just been "playing around with you" to have something to say. I hate people that start fake, inconsequential arguments as a conversational style, but people do it all the time.
posted by ctmf at 1:26 PM on October 10, 2009
If they're just trying to get to know you better, they'll follow up with, "Oh? Where did you move from?" and the conversation can go from there.
To me, where you're "from" normally means where you were for your high school and newly-on-your-own years. For lots and lots of people, even that arbitrary definition is too simplistic. If I ask where someone is from like that, I'm just interested in what they say, with whatever explanation they want to give, to get to know them better. If I really wanted to know specifically where you went to high school, I'd ask that.
I think your friend is either a dick (if he really meant it), or just doesn't know how to make conversation very well. He may have just been "playing around with you" to have something to say. I hate people that start fake, inconsequential arguments as a conversational style, but people do it all the time.
posted by ctmf at 1:26 PM on October 10, 2009
Just answer it accurately with as much info as you want to divulge. I'd try something like "I've been in North Carolina most of my life." and if they're just making polite conversation, that should do. If they're really interested in where you're born, they can ask a followup question.
posted by lubujackson at 1:26 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by lubujackson at 1:26 PM on October 10, 2009
If I had to be totally accurate about where I am from, I would sound like an idiot. Now, I just say "the North East." If they want to know where, I narrow it down to a state, and go from there depending on how much the person wants to know. I used to be more precise, but it was annoying. I've lived on Maui for half my life, so for all intents and purposes I am from Maui.
posted by fifilaru at 2:35 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by fifilaru at 2:35 PM on October 10, 2009
FYI, I, too, located to NC (western) when I was young and a Navy brat.
Back then, I told the locals I was from Virginia, which is where I was born, but now, I usually ID myself as a Tarheel hillbilly. I almost always tell folks I was born in VA but grew up in NC.
I don't necessarily think your friend is being a dick. I think he's being 23, too. At that age, 'dick' is informally included in the definition. It fades, like the parathyroid glands, in most healthy people and by the time one is 30, it's mostly gone.
I make it a point to assume benign intentions on the part of folks who aren't being polite, and if I am really being charitable, to let them in on it later, in private and kindly. Failing that, or in those circumstances where warranted, I introduce them to the most wickedly intense intellect they are likely to encounter in a living human, aimed directly at their self image. Even this is a kindness compared to a glove across the face and a demand for satisfaction on the field of honor at dawn!
Goddamn, I love being a southerner.
posted by FauxScot at 2:38 PM on October 10, 2009
Back then, I told the locals I was from Virginia, which is where I was born, but now, I usually ID myself as a Tarheel hillbilly. I almost always tell folks I was born in VA but grew up in NC.
I don't necessarily think your friend is being a dick. I think he's being 23, too. At that age, 'dick' is informally included in the definition. It fades, like the parathyroid glands, in most healthy people and by the time one is 30, it's mostly gone.
I make it a point to assume benign intentions on the part of folks who aren't being polite, and if I am really being charitable, to let them in on it later, in private and kindly. Failing that, or in those circumstances where warranted, I introduce them to the most wickedly intense intellect they are likely to encounter in a living human, aimed directly at their self image. Even this is a kindness compared to a glove across the face and a demand for satisfaction on the field of honor at dawn!
Goddamn, I love being a southerner.
posted by FauxScot at 2:38 PM on October 10, 2009
I was born in Manhattan, but I'm not a New Yorker.
I lived in Tampa until I was 11, but I'm not a Floridian.
But I have lived in Alabama since 1999, and still do, so I guess I'm an Alabamian.
I'd say the "correct" answer is wherever you've lived most of your life and identify with most strongly, not simply where you were born.
posted by Rhaomi at 2:52 PM on October 10, 2009
I lived in Tampa until I was 11, but I'm not a Floridian.
But I have lived in Alabama since 1999, and still do, so I guess I'm an Alabamian.
I'd say the "correct" answer is wherever you've lived most of your life and identify with most strongly, not simply where you were born.
posted by Rhaomi at 2:52 PM on October 10, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers so far, folks!
As a point of clarifcation, the reason I don't normally mention it is because once I do, it becomes my "thing" - I'm Canadian. And I don't want it to be my thing. People have some bizarre ideas about Canadians (and there are enough Canadians living in the US that I don't understand why) and the jokes are just weird. They make me uncomfortable and I don't like being made fun of in the context of a place I don't know anything about. So, I usually just let it pass unless I need to tell someone or it's with people I'm closer to. Dude hitting on me at a bar? I don't want to talk about it. The other wrench in it is I'm not a citizen (yet), so telling people this makes them turn into "hey-let's-get-into-a-debate-about-what-it-means-to-be-American-RIGHT-NOW". So, yeah. It's touchy.
I'm just curious about how other people handle this kind of thing. Someone upthread hit the nail on the head - when people are so transitory, how relevant does your place of birth become really?
posted by katybird at 2:54 PM on October 10, 2009
As a point of clarifcation, the reason I don't normally mention it is because once I do, it becomes my "thing" - I'm Canadian. And I don't want it to be my thing. People have some bizarre ideas about Canadians (and there are enough Canadians living in the US that I don't understand why) and the jokes are just weird. They make me uncomfortable and I don't like being made fun of in the context of a place I don't know anything about. So, I usually just let it pass unless I need to tell someone or it's with people I'm closer to. Dude hitting on me at a bar? I don't want to talk about it. The other wrench in it is I'm not a citizen (yet), so telling people this makes them turn into "hey-let's-get-into-a-debate-about-what-it-means-to-be-American-RIGHT-NOW". So, yeah. It's touchy.
I'm just curious about how other people handle this kind of thing. Someone upthread hit the nail on the head - when people are so transitory, how relevant does your place of birth become really?
posted by katybird at 2:54 PM on October 10, 2009
Your friend is a douche, and you're fine in saying you're from NC.
If your douchebag friend wanted you to answer "Canada," he should have asked "Where is your family from?" or "Where do your people come from before they came to NC?" But he didn't ask those.
I think the talk about southerners is a little misplaced... your douchebag friend's outburst is so rude that I'd bet he's a carpetbagger, not an actual old-line southerner. An actual southerner, if he were pissed off that you hadn't said "Canada" when he asked, would just have said "Oh, you're originally from Canada? Well bless your heart." An actual southerner so fumingly enraged with you that he delivered the speech you report would be on the edge of lethal violence.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:32 PM on October 10, 2009
If your douchebag friend wanted you to answer "Canada," he should have asked "Where is your family from?" or "Where do your people come from before they came to NC?" But he didn't ask those.
I think the talk about southerners is a little misplaced... your douchebag friend's outburst is so rude that I'd bet he's a carpetbagger, not an actual old-line southerner. An actual southerner, if he were pissed off that you hadn't said "Canada" when he asked, would just have said "Oh, you're originally from Canada? Well bless your heart." An actual southerner so fumingly enraged with you that he delivered the speech you report would be on the edge of lethal violence.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:32 PM on October 10, 2009
I don't like it when people say they're from [CITY] when they're actually from some suburb...
It's entirely reasonable if you're far away from CITY and have no reason to think that you're talking to someone from CITY METRO AREA.
If you don't, here's how the conversation goes.
Where are you from?
Vienna.
Austria?
Virginia.
Where's that?
*sigh* DC.
If someone casually asks you where you're from, they're probably not asking "Which specific municipality are you domiciled in, for I am so conversant with the names of all municipalities and unincorporated areas in the US that I will immediately recognize the location of any suburb you give."
They probably just mean "What big-city metro area or easily-described rural area are you from?" The answers they're looking for are "Dallas" or "Buffalo" or "southern Georgia," not "Highland Park" or "Cheektowaga" or "Hahira."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:44 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's entirely reasonable if you're far away from CITY and have no reason to think that you're talking to someone from CITY METRO AREA.
If you don't, here's how the conversation goes.
Where are you from?
Vienna.
Austria?
Virginia.
Where's that?
*sigh* DC.
If someone casually asks you where you're from, they're probably not asking "Which specific municipality are you domiciled in, for I am so conversant with the names of all municipalities and unincorporated areas in the US that I will immediately recognize the location of any suburb you give."
They probably just mean "What big-city metro area or easily-described rural area are you from?" The answers they're looking for are "Dallas" or "Buffalo" or "southern Georgia," not "Highland Park" or "Cheektowaga" or "Hahira."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:44 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
The fact that only one person has reacted like this should tell you that your response to this question is fine.
"I was born in Canada, but I've lived here since I was six" is fine if you want to field a few questions about Canada but will let people know you are essentially a Tar Heel and haven't much to say about being Canadian. Just saying "Chapel Hill" or "NC" is fine if you don't.
Your friend is not necessarily a schmuck. He may have simply taken his Southern-ness for granted for awhile and only recently become acquainted with "what it means to be a Southerner" (whatever that means) and his social skills are suffering while he processes his new view of the world. It's not unusual for this attitude to flare bright at first and mellow over time. Flag it as "what-ev-er" and move on. No one else in the room will care about his need for pigeonholing. They'll be ever-so-slightly-pleased that you like calling North Carolina home.
posted by K.P. at 3:55 PM on October 10, 2009
"I was born in Canada, but I've lived here since I was six" is fine if you want to field a few questions about Canada but will let people know you are essentially a Tar Heel and haven't much to say about being Canadian. Just saying "Chapel Hill" or "NC" is fine if you don't.
Your friend is not necessarily a schmuck. He may have simply taken his Southern-ness for granted for awhile and only recently become acquainted with "what it means to be a Southerner" (whatever that means) and his social skills are suffering while he processes his new view of the world. It's not unusual for this attitude to flare bright at first and mellow over time. Flag it as "what-ev-er" and move on. No one else in the room will care about his need for pigeonholing. They'll be ever-so-slightly-pleased that you like calling North Carolina home.
posted by K.P. at 3:55 PM on October 10, 2009
I was born and raised in North Carolina.
Here, what matters culturally is your roots. Were you born here? Are "your people" from around here?
I'm sorry to tell you this, but I would not have considered you to be from North Carolina. UNLESS your Canadian parents were originally North Carolinians...
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:32 PM on October 10, 2009
Here, what matters culturally is your roots. Were you born here? Are "your people" from around here?
I'm sorry to tell you this, but I would not have considered you to be from North Carolina. UNLESS your Canadian parents were originally North Carolinians...
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:32 PM on October 10, 2009
Are "your people" from around here?
Sure, but if that's the question you want answered, you should use your words and ask that question instead of "Where are you from?" or "Is your mother a talking pie?" or "Are you a god?" or any other question that isn't "Are your people from around here?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:58 PM on October 10, 2009
Sure, but if that's the question you want answered, you should use your words and ask that question instead of "Where are you from?" or "Is your mother a talking pie?" or "Are you a god?" or any other question that isn't "Are your people from around here?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:58 PM on October 10, 2009
katydid, re your followup question, I think you just need to remember that no one in North America (no one in Canada and no one in the U.S.) is really "from" here in a certain sense, unless you happen to be Native American/American Indian. Everyone here either came from somewhere else or their ancestors came from somewhere else. You are just taking a path that many before you have taken. It is a good thing to decide that a place is your home and take the road to citizenship. Just hold your head up and ignore those who think you are not American enough or North Carolinian enough, or whatever silly things people decide to use to set themselves apart as more truly "from" some place than you are.
I would also urge you not to be embarrassed about being born in Canada. You don't need to start saying eh and aboot and wearing Canadian hockey team jerseys (unless you really are a fan), but Canada is not a bad place to have some roots. Hold your head up about it, be proud of your parents and relatives and ancestors. It doesn't subtract anything from your "Americanness" to have roots somewhere else, it really doesn't. I know you say you don't want it to be your "thing", but it is a part of you, and, really, if you weren't born in Canada I'm sure the ignorant out there would find something else artificial to focus on to set you apart from them. The ignorant always do. As they say on the internet, don't feed the trolls.
My mother was born in Germany and emigrated to America with her family when she was 6. Her young adult years coincided with World War II, when it was decidedly not a positive thing to be German, but the thing of it is, she really wasn't German at that point, she was an American who had been born in Germany. She always tried to hold her head up, condemn the Nazis, support the war effort (she had a "Rosie the Riveter" type job during some of the war) but she did not deny her ancestry (again, not easy during WWII), even when it cost her a college scholarship (given to someone more "American.") I'm proud of her and miss her terribly (she died this spring), and I like to think that her background was part of what made her always sympathetic to the underdog, always ready to seek out and befriend those ostensibly different from her, and an enemy of ignorance and prejudice in general. She knew what it was like to be judged "different", based on her background, and tried to never make that mistake herself.
posted by gudrun at 5:18 PM on October 10, 2009
I would also urge you not to be embarrassed about being born in Canada. You don't need to start saying eh and aboot and wearing Canadian hockey team jerseys (unless you really are a fan), but Canada is not a bad place to have some roots. Hold your head up about it, be proud of your parents and relatives and ancestors. It doesn't subtract anything from your "Americanness" to have roots somewhere else, it really doesn't. I know you say you don't want it to be your "thing", but it is a part of you, and, really, if you weren't born in Canada I'm sure the ignorant out there would find something else artificial to focus on to set you apart from them. The ignorant always do. As they say on the internet, don't feed the trolls.
My mother was born in Germany and emigrated to America with her family when she was 6. Her young adult years coincided with World War II, when it was decidedly not a positive thing to be German, but the thing of it is, she really wasn't German at that point, she was an American who had been born in Germany. She always tried to hold her head up, condemn the Nazis, support the war effort (she had a "Rosie the Riveter" type job during some of the war) but she did not deny her ancestry (again, not easy during WWII), even when it cost her a college scholarship (given to someone more "American.") I'm proud of her and miss her terribly (she died this spring), and I like to think that her background was part of what made her always sympathetic to the underdog, always ready to seek out and befriend those ostensibly different from her, and an enemy of ignorance and prejudice in general. She knew what it was like to be judged "different", based on her background, and tried to never make that mistake herself.
posted by gudrun at 5:18 PM on October 10, 2009
Sure, but if that's the question you want answered, you should use your words and ask that question instead of "Where are you from?" or "Is your mother a talking pie?" or "Are you a god?" or any other question that isn't "Are your people from around here?"
As I said before, it's a culture clash. As far as the asker was concerned he was asking "are your people from around here".
posted by atrazine at 5:27 PM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
As I said before, it's a culture clash. As far as the asker was concerned he was asking "are your people from around here".
posted by atrazine at 5:27 PM on October 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
It made me chuckle when I read your question and I know exactly what you mean. You feel like you're from North Carolina, therefore you are from there. After all, you've spent 17 of your 23 years there. You may have been born in Canada, but you left there at such a young age, you don't have much experience there, so it's not very relational as a place you'd be from. You are absolutely right. You are from North Carolina.
Like me, I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah, but I was raised and have lived many years in Topeka, Kansas, plus nearly every one of my relatives on both sides are from Kansas. So I relate to Kansas as being where I am from and that's what I say when asked. For the most part, it's easiest and most honest. I don't really relate to Utah. It's pretty and nice, but I don't feel like I'm from there.
I get sick of the questions associated with Utah too. No, I'm not Mormon. So I know what you mean there.
If someone wants to get specific, I figure it's more accurate to say, I was born in Utah, but I am from Kansas. And even then, I don't totally feel like I'm from Kansas. There's other places I relate to much more.
For instance, I've traveled to all of the lower 48 states and lived in a dozen of them. The two places I personally consider home are Boston and the Ozarks. I wouldn't say I'm from Boston or I'm from the Ozarks, but they feel more home to me than anywhere else I've been. Just because your parents chose a place to call home doesn't mean you'll do the same thing.
I spent a lot of years in California, San Francisco itself, not one of the suburbs, and I loved it, but I've never considered it home or that I was from there. I liked it, but never related to it on that emotional of a level.
I like what FishBike said.
posted by VC Drake at 5:30 PM on October 10, 2009
Like me, I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah, but I was raised and have lived many years in Topeka, Kansas, plus nearly every one of my relatives on both sides are from Kansas. So I relate to Kansas as being where I am from and that's what I say when asked. For the most part, it's easiest and most honest. I don't really relate to Utah. It's pretty and nice, but I don't feel like I'm from there.
I get sick of the questions associated with Utah too. No, I'm not Mormon. So I know what you mean there.
If someone wants to get specific, I figure it's more accurate to say, I was born in Utah, but I am from Kansas. And even then, I don't totally feel like I'm from Kansas. There's other places I relate to much more.
For instance, I've traveled to all of the lower 48 states and lived in a dozen of them. The two places I personally consider home are Boston and the Ozarks. I wouldn't say I'm from Boston or I'm from the Ozarks, but they feel more home to me than anywhere else I've been. Just because your parents chose a place to call home doesn't mean you'll do the same thing.
I spent a lot of years in California, San Francisco itself, not one of the suburbs, and I loved it, but I've never considered it home or that I was from there. I liked it, but never related to it on that emotional of a level.
I like what FishBike said.
posted by VC Drake at 5:30 PM on October 10, 2009
Uh, when one is in North Carolina, the local culture is Southern/North Carolinian. To those of you who think the poster is from North Carolina, I can see where you would believe that. But to a native North Carolinian that is not the right answer.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:32 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:32 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
(oh, and sorry for getting your meta name wrong, katybird. really, i like katydids quite a bit so it should be taken as a positive, not a negative, and is more reflective of the wicked migraine i've got today than anything else.)
posted by gudrun at 5:36 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by gudrun at 5:36 PM on October 10, 2009
St. Alia, I know some Cherokees who would argue with you about that.
posted by gudrun at 5:38 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by gudrun at 5:38 PM on October 10, 2009
Your Southerner friend was worried that by mis-categorizing you (and perhaps misrepresenting you to his friends/family), he'd jeopardized his own social standing.
Eh? Sorry, not catching that “own social standing thing”. For that to kick in, for him to know where he stands vis a vis OP on a social scale, he would have had to have known not just that she was “from North Carolina”, he would have had to have known which part of North Carolina (big differences east and west), what town, what family, what church, what schools, what familial vices and virtues – the list is long and those versed in a given community can go one in detail for hours.
Clearly he’s not one of those who would instinctively say “Now are you of the Redleaf Katybirds or the Magnolia Katybirds?” and be able to discourse on both families ad infinitum. (NB though this is associated with the south, I’ve heard similar lines in New England and even in Pennsylvania.) His seems a more watered down version of you’re not from here until two generations are buried here, and even then….
Given Ms Bird's age, I’m going to guess he’s earlier twenties and therefore still young enough to be foolishly earnest and didactic on this (as twenty somethings can be earnest and didactic on plenty of truly inconsequential matters). I’m guessing his momma would have told him to shut his mouth and act right to his lovely new friend.
At least she’s not another Yankee.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:40 PM on October 10, 2009
Eh? Sorry, not catching that “own social standing thing”. For that to kick in, for him to know where he stands vis a vis OP on a social scale, he would have had to have known not just that she was “from North Carolina”, he would have had to have known which part of North Carolina (big differences east and west), what town, what family, what church, what schools, what familial vices and virtues – the list is long and those versed in a given community can go one in detail for hours.
Clearly he’s not one of those who would instinctively say “Now are you of the Redleaf Katybirds or the Magnolia Katybirds?” and be able to discourse on both families ad infinitum. (NB though this is associated with the south, I’ve heard similar lines in New England and even in Pennsylvania.) His seems a more watered down version of you’re not from here until two generations are buried here, and even then….
Given Ms Bird's age, I’m going to guess he’s earlier twenties and therefore still young enough to be foolishly earnest and didactic on this (as twenty somethings can be earnest and didactic on plenty of truly inconsequential matters). I’m guessing his momma would have told him to shut his mouth and act right to his lovely new friend.
At least she’s not another Yankee.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:40 PM on October 10, 2009
St. Alia, I am a native North Carolinian. You are incorrect.
posted by sonic meat machine at 6:37 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sonic meat machine at 6:37 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry to tell you this St. Alia, but thinking you're from North Carolina doesn't actually make you an authority on who else gets to think they're from North Carolina.
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:42 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:42 PM on October 10, 2009
St. Alia, I know some Cherokees who would argue with you about that.
posted by gudrun at 5:38 PM on October 10 [+] [!]
If your point was that the Cherokee were here first, I still don't think that would change the answer. But I can always ask my husband, who is part Cherokee (at least according to the gubmint.) By the way, he has lived in the South since he was nineteen, and is in his fifties now, and would be sorely tempted to punch someone in the nose if they failed to acknowledge he was from Colorado, a Coloradoan, and a Westerner.
Look, let me try this one more time. By the social codes of much of the United States, this person could say they were from North Carolina and be technically correct. But if a North Carolina born and bred person asks you, they want to know where you were BORN.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:43 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by gudrun at 5:38 PM on October 10 [+] [!]
If your point was that the Cherokee were here first, I still don't think that would change the answer. But I can always ask my husband, who is part Cherokee (at least according to the gubmint.) By the way, he has lived in the South since he was nineteen, and is in his fifties now, and would be sorely tempted to punch someone in the nose if they failed to acknowledge he was from Colorado, a Coloradoan, and a Westerner.
Look, let me try this one more time. By the social codes of much of the United States, this person could say they were from North Carolina and be technically correct. But if a North Carolina born and bred person asks you, they want to know where you were BORN.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:43 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
And tigrrrlily, just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me wrong. I was born here, my family goes back generations here, I had the misfortune to work in a Raleigh country club where only the right pedigree would admit you no matter how much money you had, and I am married to a Westerner who is definitely NOT Southern. I am telling you there are cultural differences. If you choose to disbelieve me that's your issue.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 PM on October 10, 2009
(In all fairness most Southerners won't tell you to your face that they don't see you as, in this case, from North Carolina. For the purposes of this thread, I'm telling you what they won't, to your face. Because many-not all but many-Southerners will indeed be one way to you to your face and totally another way behind your back. I am NOT proud of that part of my culture, but it is a real facet of it.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:48 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:48 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ugh. On second thought, St. Alia's comment is possibly the most informative answer katybird could have asked for. The fact that it's distasteful to some (me included) is neither here nor there.
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:53 PM on October 10, 2009
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:53 PM on October 10, 2009
When someone who knows that you are away from home asks you where you're from, they generally mean "Where do you currently live?" When someone in your city of current residence, or aware of your current city of residence, asks you where you're from, they generally mean "Before here, where were you from?"
It's kind of similar to the hierarchy of "Where do you live?" answers. If I'm in another country and someone asks me that, I'm from Canada and maybe I mention Toronto. If someone from Canada asks me, I'm from Toronto. If someone from Toronto asks me, I live in Downsview, near the University. I have a similar hierarchy for describing where I grew up -- Canada, Northern BC, near Prince George, Bear Lake, depending on the likelihood that they will be aware of those places. It's all contextual.
Don't get me wrong, your friend is kind of a giant asshole for calling you out in public, but the question is contectual and you should try to be aware of how the question is meant when you're answering it. Not that getting context wrong is anywhere near lying, unless you're doing it on a scholarship application for the Sons of the Research Triangle or something, but it does help the whole communication process if you think about what information the asker is actually looking for before answering. Of course, it would also help if they were a little clearer. And if you feel like they're only asking because they want to place you firmly in the category of 'not born here' and treat your poorly as a result, you should feel free to lie or at least omit freely.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:54 PM on October 10, 2009
It's kind of similar to the hierarchy of "Where do you live?" answers. If I'm in another country and someone asks me that, I'm from Canada and maybe I mention Toronto. If someone from Canada asks me, I'm from Toronto. If someone from Toronto asks me, I live in Downsview, near the University. I have a similar hierarchy for describing where I grew up -- Canada, Northern BC, near Prince George, Bear Lake, depending on the likelihood that they will be aware of those places. It's all contextual.
Don't get me wrong, your friend is kind of a giant asshole for calling you out in public, but the question is contectual and you should try to be aware of how the question is meant when you're answering it. Not that getting context wrong is anywhere near lying, unless you're doing it on a scholarship application for the Sons of the Research Triangle or something, but it does help the whole communication process if you think about what information the asker is actually looking for before answering. Of course, it would also help if they were a little clearer. And if you feel like they're only asking because they want to place you firmly in the category of 'not born here' and treat your poorly as a result, you should feel free to lie or at least omit freely.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:54 PM on October 10, 2009
St. Alia, you are using the standards of the old money "aristocracy" and its many hangers-on to judge the whole of Southern culture. My families have been here for centuries, and yet because we're not rich most of that "old money" wouldn't view me as belonging to the local society. However, they are not a numerically dominant portion of the population and are growing less economically dominant as the region moves away from the benighted textile mill model of industrialism.
To normal, every day people in the North Carolina—the people who are real, genuine, interesting people rather than throwbacks to 1930—a person who has grown up and lived in North Carolina is a North Carolinian. They might have a more interesting story than someone who is the fifth son of the third son of the first son of the second son of Hiram Penrose, who built the mill, but they're North Carolinian.
Don't impose more psychological baggage and stereotypes on Southerners than we already have, thanks; we've got plenty enough as it is.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:04 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
To normal, every day people in the North Carolina—the people who are real, genuine, interesting people rather than throwbacks to 1930—a person who has grown up and lived in North Carolina is a North Carolinian. They might have a more interesting story than someone who is the fifth son of the third son of the first son of the second son of Hiram Penrose, who built the mill, but they're North Carolinian.
Don't impose more psychological baggage and stereotypes on Southerners than we already have, thanks; we've got plenty enough as it is.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:04 PM on October 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I truly hate to come into this argument, but I do think that some of the answers here are overlooking the dynamics of the RTP. The kid who challenged you on your identity was an ass, admittedly, but he was an ass who was just making explicit what a lot of people would think in silence.
Note: I am not saying that it is right, or fair, or sensible. I am just saying that there are an awful lot of people for whom you are not from North Carolina (or wherever) if you were not born here and your people are from here. This is only enhanced by the fact that people make jokes about the way the Raleigh area is heavily seeded with non North Carolinians. We have all heard the joke about Cary standing for Containment Area for Relocated Yankees, I trust?
My family is broke as a broke thing and have been since the Civil War, although we're from another part of the south, not North Carolina. But the first thing out of my mother's mouth when I tell her about some new person I have met is 'Who are their people? Are they the katybirds from Douglas or the katybirds from Lanchester? Those Lanchester katybirds are no good. I remember their grandfather stole pigs. (or some crazy thing indicating their no-goodness)' She's not being ironic. I was forbidden to be friends with some people because 'their people were no good' for reasons lost in the hoary mists of time.
I've lived in North Carolina for some time and would never dream of telling someone that I was 'from' here unless I were deliberately obscuring my origins to avoid bringing my people into things. I do that sometimes, because I do have people all over and I don't like to have my every move reported to my mother even though she's seven hundred miles or more away. I once found a cousin I hadn't seen since childhood in Harris Teeter, of all places. So your friend's ruffled feathers might have come from feeling that you were cloaking your origins in an effort to evade being evaluated against your kin, or that you didn't like your friend well enough to want to be connected to him in a meaningful, families connected way.
He should have let it go, a million times, and it was unspeakably rude to challenge you on your identity. I would like to say that you are from wherever you think you're from. But what you might want to say is that you were born in Canada but were raised in North Carolina if you want to get into those kinds of conversations with people who hold to those kinds of ideas about the meanings of acquaintance.
posted by winna at 8:48 PM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Note: I am not saying that it is right, or fair, or sensible. I am just saying that there are an awful lot of people for whom you are not from North Carolina (or wherever) if you were not born here and your people are from here. This is only enhanced by the fact that people make jokes about the way the Raleigh area is heavily seeded with non North Carolinians. We have all heard the joke about Cary standing for Containment Area for Relocated Yankees, I trust?
My family is broke as a broke thing and have been since the Civil War, although we're from another part of the south, not North Carolina. But the first thing out of my mother's mouth when I tell her about some new person I have met is 'Who are their people? Are they the katybirds from Douglas or the katybirds from Lanchester? Those Lanchester katybirds are no good. I remember their grandfather stole pigs. (or some crazy thing indicating their no-goodness)' She's not being ironic. I was forbidden to be friends with some people because 'their people were no good' for reasons lost in the hoary mists of time.
I've lived in North Carolina for some time and would never dream of telling someone that I was 'from' here unless I were deliberately obscuring my origins to avoid bringing my people into things. I do that sometimes, because I do have people all over and I don't like to have my every move reported to my mother even though she's seven hundred miles or more away. I once found a cousin I hadn't seen since childhood in Harris Teeter, of all places. So your friend's ruffled feathers might have come from feeling that you were cloaking your origins in an effort to evade being evaluated against your kin, or that you didn't like your friend well enough to want to be connected to him in a meaningful, families connected way.
He should have let it go, a million times, and it was unspeakably rude to challenge you on your identity. I would like to say that you are from wherever you think you're from. But what you might want to say is that you were born in Canada but were raised in North Carolina if you want to get into those kinds of conversations with people who hold to those kinds of ideas about the meanings of acquaintance.
posted by winna at 8:48 PM on October 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Regarding the last message. someone crosses a the bar floor and says, where are you from. They want a one word statement (or at least a very, very short answer).
Do they want 20 words saying where are you from? No. At least surely most people don't.
"I was born in a log cabin along a small river" yadda, yadda, etc.
Keep it short, appropriate to the situation, and you did.
Why is this idiot worrying about this when he could have been worrying about global warming, acidification of the oceans, etc.?
Good for you! Your answer was fast, honest and useful.
Yours,
Kalepa
posted by Kalepa at 11:27 PM on October 10, 2009
Do they want 20 words saying where are you from? No. At least surely most people don't.
"I was born in a log cabin along a small river" yadda, yadda, etc.
Keep it short, appropriate to the situation, and you did.
Why is this idiot worrying about this when he could have been worrying about global warming, acidification of the oceans, etc.?
Good for you! Your answer was fast, honest and useful.
Yours,
Kalepa
posted by Kalepa at 11:27 PM on October 10, 2009
Nthing everyone who says new friend is being rude. What I say is: "From LA (and the Valley Village part of North Hollywood if I'm asked for more specifics), but I live in New York now. I went to grad school with someone who was born in the US but spent most of his formative years in Canada and considered himself Canadian.
posted by brujita at 12:40 AM on October 11, 2009
posted by brujita at 12:40 AM on October 11, 2009
I agree with those above who have essentially made the following distinction:
1) If you are asked where are you are from and the situation takes places anywhere other than where you are living then the right answer is: where you are living.
2) If you are asked this same question in the place you live then they are essentially asking you where else you came from.
I lived in San Francisco for 15 years. When I traveled abroad from there I would say I was from San Francisco.
When asked where I was from by someone in San Francisco I would say that I grew up in San Diego. I could not honestly say I was from San Francisco especially when I had a friend whose family was 4th generation San Francisco. HE was from San Francisco - not me.
Now I live in London. When I travel in Europe I say I am from London. When asked this question in London I say I am from San Francisco.
Your friend is rude. But your friend is right.
posted by vacapinta at 2:48 AM on October 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
1) If you are asked where are you are from and the situation takes places anywhere other than where you are living then the right answer is: where you are living.
2) If you are asked this same question in the place you live then they are essentially asking you where else you came from.
I lived in San Francisco for 15 years. When I traveled abroad from there I would say I was from San Francisco.
When asked where I was from by someone in San Francisco I would say that I grew up in San Diego. I could not honestly say I was from San Francisco especially when I had a friend whose family was 4th generation San Francisco. HE was from San Francisco - not me.
Now I live in London. When I travel in Europe I say I am from London. When asked this question in London I say I am from San Francisco.
Your friend is rude. But your friend is right.
posted by vacapinta at 2:48 AM on October 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I live in Japan. As a blonde, blue-eyed gaijin, I get asked where I'm from a LOT. And I tell them Osaka - I've lived here for the last six years, I speak the local dialect (hardcore enough that when I go to other parts of the country and try to speak standard Japanese everyone can still tell I'm from Osaka), and this is where I identify.
If they don't accept Osaka as an answer, I have two further responses. If I'm annoyed at them, then it turns out that I'm a transplant from Saitama-ken (oddly, every foreigner I've ever met claims to be from Saitama in this situation). If I'm in a good mood, I tell them Seattle.
Even though I was born and raised (all the way through high school) in Olympia. Nobody here has even heard of Olympia. And I've had to explain that Seattle is not in Canada to more than one person.
Also, I get kinda tired of everyone going "Ooooh Ichiro! Ichiro!" at me, as if suddenly that's the only word I'll understand once I mention Seattle.
posted by emmling at 3:28 AM on October 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
If they don't accept Osaka as an answer, I have two further responses. If I'm annoyed at them, then it turns out that I'm a transplant from Saitama-ken (oddly, every foreigner I've ever met claims to be from Saitama in this situation). If I'm in a good mood, I tell them Seattle.
Even though I was born and raised (all the way through high school) in Olympia. Nobody here has even heard of Olympia. And I've had to explain that Seattle is not in Canada to more than one person.
Also, I get kinda tired of everyone going "Ooooh Ichiro! Ichiro!" at me, as if suddenly that's the only word I'll understand once I mention Seattle.
posted by emmling at 3:28 AM on October 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
St. Alia, you are using the standards of the old money "aristocracy" and its many hangers-on to judge the whole of Southern culture. My families have been here for centuries, and yet because we're not rich most of that "old money" wouldn't view me as belonging to the local society. However, they are not a numerically dominant portion of the population and are growing less economically dominant as the region moves away from the benighted textile mill model of industrialism.
No, these same values (regarding who is from where) are just as strong on the textile mill side of the culture(which I am descended from.) This has nothing to do with socioeconomics.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:20 AM on October 11, 2009
No, these same values (regarding who is from where) are just as strong on the textile mill side of the culture(which I am descended from.) This has nothing to do with socioeconomics.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:20 AM on October 11, 2009
lol Wow, I'm often amazed at what questions on MeFi garner interest. This is soo not a question I would have expected to get 89 responses! lol
But since it's here, I might was well give my 2 cents. Your friend was rude, but not incorrect. I think it is somewhat deceptive to answer only "NC" when you lived a good part of your formative years in Canada. As someone upthread stated, why not just say, "I was born in Canada, but grew up in NC since I was 6." What's so dang difficult about that? I grew up in two places, and I pretty much always say that ie "I grew up in ______ until I was like 13 and then ____." The end. The fact that that seems to be so difficult for you does give off the impression that you are somehow ashamed of where you're from...which I guess is another thread altogether.
posted by GeniPalm at 10:05 AM on October 11, 2009
But since it's here, I might was well give my 2 cents. Your friend was rude, but not incorrect. I think it is somewhat deceptive to answer only "NC" when you lived a good part of your formative years in Canada. As someone upthread stated, why not just say, "I was born in Canada, but grew up in NC since I was 6." What's so dang difficult about that? I grew up in two places, and I pretty much always say that ie "I grew up in ______ until I was like 13 and then ____." The end. The fact that that seems to be so difficult for you does give off the impression that you are somehow ashamed of where you're from...which I guess is another thread altogether.
posted by GeniPalm at 10:05 AM on October 11, 2009
GeniPalm, I don't really think 1-6 counts as 'formative years' when you're talking national socialization. That stuff usually hits later, during the self-awareness stage.
I think this comment (and the following comments) probably explain your friend's behavior, but that's still REALLY rude. You're from wherever you identify with most, obviously; whichever place informs how you think, how you act, and whichever place most feels like home to you. When people ask where you're from, it's in part to get a sense of how you've been socialized. The question is largely useless if the person only wants to know where you were born.
posted by timoni at 4:26 PM on October 12, 2009
I think this comment (and the following comments) probably explain your friend's behavior, but that's still REALLY rude. You're from wherever you identify with most, obviously; whichever place informs how you think, how you act, and whichever place most feels like home to you. When people ask where you're from, it's in part to get a sense of how you've been socialized. The question is largely useless if the person only wants to know where you were born.
posted by timoni at 4:26 PM on October 12, 2009
Hilarious, I moved the same places.
Say one of these two sentences (either is fine): "I was born in XX town, Canada" or "I live in Raleigh (or wherever), NC."
Tada. Other person can then ask more nosy questions if they want. The "from" part of the original question is misleading, so you need to clarify in your answer.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2009
Say one of these two sentences (either is fine): "I was born in XX town, Canada" or "I live in Raleigh (or wherever), NC."
Tada. Other person can then ask more nosy questions if they want. The "from" part of the original question is misleading, so you need to clarify in your answer.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2009
> Your friend is rude. But your friend is right.
No. There is no such thing as "right" in this context; there is insane and sane, bullshit and normal human communication. The "you're not from here unless your ancestors on both sides have been here for sixteen generations" attitude is insane bullshit.
Once again, the poster is right to say whatever feels right to her. She has no obligation to defer to the insane prejudices of people like the "you're a liar" asshole, and in fact such reactions can provide a good indication of who to avoid. Stick to your guns, poster.
posted by languagehat at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2009
No. There is no such thing as "right" in this context; there is insane and sane, bullshit and normal human communication. The "you're not from here unless your ancestors on both sides have been here for sixteen generations" attitude is insane bullshit.
Once again, the poster is right to say whatever feels right to her. She has no obligation to defer to the insane prejudices of people like the "you're a liar" asshole, and in fact such reactions can provide a good indication of who to avoid. Stick to your guns, poster.
posted by languagehat at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by sanka at 8:22 AM on October 10, 2009 [42 favorites]