Slightly less drama than The Bill

October 4, 2009 11:34 AM

UKLawFilter: I don't watch TV. My housemates do. What legal defence do I have? I think it's necessary to expand a little

I come from a house without a TV. There are few shows I'd watch, but I can quite happily live without it. My housemates however, cannot, and for various reasons (big trouble with student loans for one) have not stumped up their portion of the license fee. I've had my part sat on my desk for the past 3 weeks waiting for them to get their act together, and once I realised they weren't going to bother paying any time soon, I stopped watching even the little I had been before.

I'd love to be altruistic and say that in the (admittedly unlikely) event of this being caught and fined, my housemates would be honest and say I had not been watching TV, but I doubt they would. So let's hypothesise that this situation ends in a worst-case scenario and that I, on principle, decline to cough up. Will I have any grounds for acquittal in the eyes of the law?

posted by anonymous to law & government (22 comments total)

Really? I mean... really??

I have absolutely zero expertise in either the law or matters relating to tenancy particularly in the UK, but I can't fathom a situation in which you could prove that you hadn't used it. Nor is that the point, really. If you had had an agreement stating that you would not pay for part of it, that might be one thing. but it seems that you do not. From my point of view, this is almost akin to trying to say you didn't inhale secondhand smoke.

Also (and, again, IANAL, IDoNotLiveInTheUK), the matter of an unpaid bill seems like the kind of thing that would go to a collection agency before it would get anywhere close to the law. How much are we talking here? Are we even past 100 pounds?
posted by Madamina at 11:50 AM on October 4

You should check their website. Particularly the part about students where it says that "whoever is found watching TV when an Enforcement Officer comes to visit is the one who risks prosecution and a fine of up to £1,000." It would seem if you don't watch the telly, then you're not in any risk, but you could always email them for clarification.
posted by Sova at 12:00 PM on October 4

If the bill is in your name, I would pay it and then cancel the service, telling your housemates that you don't feel as though you use it enough to pay for it anymore. Put the ball in their court. Not paying a bill only hurts yourself, not them.
posted by stresstwig at 12:02 PM on October 4

No. It's a household licence, not an individual licence.
posted by carter at 12:02 PM on October 4 [1 favorite]

Madamina: Not paying the annual TV licence fee is effectively a form of tax avoidance in the UK and can result in significant fines, non-payment of those fines can and does lead to imprisonment.

anon: There are a number of previous AskMe threads re TV licensing, if might be helpful to go through them, some have links to the TVLA pages which have extensive lists of the authority's answers to questions sent to them. One may cover your situation. You could also contact the TVLA people for advice without giving an address.
posted by biffa at 12:03 PM on October 4

Give them, say, two weeks to pay their share. If they don't, lock up the TV. They don't have the right to make you an accessory to a crime.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:19 PM on October 4

Fat chance. From the TV Licensing website:

Here are some excuses we've heard from students who thought they could get away without having a TV Licence, and why they were wrong.
...
I live in a shared house, it's not my TV

posted by Null Pointer and the Exceptions at 12:22 PM on October 4 [1 favorite]

Have you talked to your roommates? If not, talk to them, find out if they're planning on paying it. Give them a deadline, and if they don't pay it, do what Faint of Butt says and lock up the TV.
posted by alligatorman at 12:24 PM on October 4

Yep, it's a household licence, and if you're joint tenants, you're all equally responsible, and you're not really going to be in a position to defend yourself.

You're just going to have to spell it out to your housemates instead of waiting for them to get their act together -- and if they don't pay, cut the aerial cable.
posted by holgate at 12:30 PM on October 4

You might want to consider posting this to the TV LICENSE RESISTANCE forums. I had a good look through a while ago, and the guys there seem to be knowledgeable.

The amount in question is £142.50, for reference.
posted by Solomon at 12:30 PM on October 4

Yeah, don't believe everything on the TV licencing website, being that they're a bunch of lying, evil bastards.

The first thing that you need to do is tell your flatmates that the TV licencing people have no right to enter your flat without a court order. They will try and tell you that they can. They can't. It's illegal for them to force entry without a court order. So this would be a good start in stopping the worst from happening.
posted by Coobeastie at 1:04 PM on October 4

If you don't watch TV, and don't want to be prosecuted, don't have a TV in the house. It's a household thing.
posted by rodgerd at 1:10 PM on October 4

People who are treating this as if it's a cable bill or something (I'm guessing Americans, like me) don't seem to realize that things work way differently for broadcast TV in the UK, so maybe don't answer regarding the actual legal aspects unless you understand how it works in the UK.
posted by ishotjr at 1:36 PM on October 4 [10 favorites]

Yeah, don't believe everything on the TV licencing website, being that they're a bunch of lying, evil bastards.

To add to Coobeastie's point about them needing a court order to get in, I've had the TV Licensing people threaten me with letter after letter over the years, saying they're going to visit, etc, etc. They haven't. Not even once. This spans three years.

(FWIW, I've always legally had a TV license but it's in my wife's name and my name is the one reported to them when I buy TVs, etc. They say in their letters to call a number to link my name to the license - for their sake - but I was put on hold so long that I can't be bothered doing it just to make them happy when it's not a legal requirement.)
posted by wackybrit at 2:04 PM on October 4

Until your housemates cough up, don't answer the door to anyone with a clipboard.
posted by malevolent at 2:18 PM on October 4

I have lived in a few places without a TV and then with a TV that's not wired to receive broadcasts, so I have plenty of experience with the TV licensing agency.

Yes, you share responsibility with your flatmates. The exception would be if your room is technically a separate residence. If you all co-signed a contract for the whole house, then this exception doesn't apply to you.

With that said, the TV licensing people have a lot less power than they'd like you to think. They have no right to enter your house uninvited unless they have a warrant, although they'll act as if they have a right. Don't invite them in and don't say "yes" when they try to invite themselves in. If, on this or subsequent visits, they see or hear evidence that you're watching TV (they're not above peering through your windows), they can return with a court order and enter against your wishes.

Remember that a license is only required for watching or recording TV as it's broadcast. It's perfectly legal to own a TV and use it for consoles / DVDs without a license. It's also legal to use "watch again" services like iPlayer and 4od as long as you don't watch live streams. Make sure that the aerial cable is not plugged in or anywhere near the TV, so any inspector that does come in can see that it's not being used illegally.

I have no idea how high the prosecution rate is, but every time I've lived somewhere without a TV license I've had the standard threatening letters and, within a few months, inspectors knocking at my door.

So you're in a bit of a tight spot. Take your chances that there won't be any sign of TV use when an inspector comes around, or persuade your flatmates to unplug the aerial and just watch DVDs.
posted by metaBugs at 2:40 PM on October 4

Hmm. Re-reading their website (specifically, the bit that Sova quoted upthread) it does look like only the person caught watching it gets fined. That's surprising.

As a side-note, is anyone else skeptical of the site's claim that "more than 1,000 evaders a day" are caught? 356,000 people caught and fined every year?
posted by metaBugs at 2:48 PM on October 4

I stopped watching broadcast TV years ago, and I've successfully avoided trouble with TV licensing.

If I were you, I'd physically remove the antenna from you house's TV and video recorder. If you have a Freeview box, or other equipment that's only use is receiving broadcast TV, then put it in the loft.

You can continue to watch videos and DVDs. You can continue to use broadband to watch iPlayer, or bit-torrent the movies or TV shows you want to watch - TV licensing don't care about the Internet.

First rule: Do not piss off the licensing people.

If you donlt answer their letters, or refuse to let them come in and examine your equipment, then they will put you on their shit-list, and you will never get rid of them.

Second rule: Always phone them whenever they send you a letter.

This is getting harder, because they've started hiding their call-centre's phone number. However, it's essential. You must contact them every time, and tell them that you don't watch TV, and don't need a license.

Third rule: Don't watch TV

They have hand-held devices that detect receiving equipment by resonating with the tuned-in antenna. Best policy is to disconnect all antennae from receiving equipment and de-tune it (e.g. tune all channels on your TV & video to zero).


If one of your house-mates has a TV in their room, and you have no access, then you might be OK. Do your rooms have separate locks?
posted by mr. strange at 2:52 PM on October 4

Interesting that the advice here is that the TV license is only for the TV. I recently moved to the UK and got a threatening letter after occupying the flat for a month. In it, it specifies that any device capable of receiving TV counts - including iPlayer on a computer or mobile phone. So even if you don't have/don't watch TV, you surely have a TV capable device.

I think the system is absurd, but decided to just pay the fee. Whether detector vans are apocryphal or not, I didn't like the idea of constant nagging letters. Get your housemates to pay.
posted by wingless_angel at 3:34 PM on October 4

wingless_angel: You have misinterpreted that point, your equipment has to be capable of recieving broadcast signal, so a TV, tivo or old VHS machine would count, iplayer definitely does not, if you set your desktop up to get a signal in as it is broadcast or to record for later that would count, but downloads to the computer don't count. As a side point, you can also have your tv set up to play games or purchased DVDs legitimately so long as it is disabled for playing broadcast programmes.

(To avoid hair splitting, cable and digital both effectively count as broadcast for licensing purposes).
posted by biffa at 3:51 PM on October 4

According to the TV licensing website whoever is found watching TV when the enforcement officer comes is the person who will be prosecuted so if you don't watch it you should be OK in theory. It might not be worth the risk though.

Would it be possible to get your flatmates to sign a document saying that you don't watch the TV. They could deny that they had signed it at a later date but it would at least count as some evidence for your case.
posted by Laura_J at 4:18 PM on October 4

As a side-note, is anyone else skeptical of the site's claim that "more than 1,000 evaders a day" are caught? 356,000 people caught and fined every year?

What they're doing is counting all the people who are sent a reminder or warning letter as "evaders", The vast majority of people will pay up after a few letters or when an inspector comes around. Actual prosecutions are much rarer.

They have hand-held devices that detect receiving equipment by resonating with the tuned-in antenna. Best policy is to disconnect all antennae from receiving equipment and de-tune it (e.g. tune all channels on your TV & video to zero).

While such equipment does exist, I rather doubt that it is used by TV Licensing due to the expense.



The legal position is clear, you are jointly responsible. There is not really any way around that.
posted by atrazine at 3:27 AM on October 5 [1 favorite]