What are the rules on apartment subletting in New York?
October 2, 2009 7:45 AM Subscribe
What are the rules on apartment subletting in New York?
Hi,
I live in Manhattan and work in finance. I'm recently out of college and am subletting a place. As is the case with most people my age, I can't afford a place of my own in Manhattan. I've had several friends (though none at the moment) who lived in a "loft share" - basically a huge loft with 5 or 6 bedrooms, shared among 5 or 6 people. I'm not sure how the lease worked - if they each signed individual leases with the landlord, or if the lease was in one of their names, or what.
This got me thinking. I remember when I first moved to the city and was looking for a place to stay for a few months while I got settled and could find a place to sign a lease. It was a huge pain in the ass because I lived in North Carolina, and my choices were either to pay exorbitant fees for a short-term rental or find a short-term sublet on craigslist, which was taking a big chance because I had no idea if the sublets on craigslist were legit, and I also didn't know what a reasonable price was. Anyways, I am sure there would be significant demand if someone rented out short-term (3-6 months) rooms in Manhattan, where people new to the city could rent while moving to the city and getting settled. I ended up paying $1500/month when I moved to the city, so I think $1200-1500 a month for a room in a loft or a large apartment wouldn't be unreasonable.
So my question is, is it legal to sign a lease for a loft rental, and then sublet individual rooms? Or do you need special permission for this (and if so, can the permission be got, or is it not allowed, period)? If the answer is no, how do you do this then...must you be the owner of the apartment?
Thanks
Hi,
I live in Manhattan and work in finance. I'm recently out of college and am subletting a place. As is the case with most people my age, I can't afford a place of my own in Manhattan. I've had several friends (though none at the moment) who lived in a "loft share" - basically a huge loft with 5 or 6 bedrooms, shared among 5 or 6 people. I'm not sure how the lease worked - if they each signed individual leases with the landlord, or if the lease was in one of their names, or what.
This got me thinking. I remember when I first moved to the city and was looking for a place to stay for a few months while I got settled and could find a place to sign a lease. It was a huge pain in the ass because I lived in North Carolina, and my choices were either to pay exorbitant fees for a short-term rental or find a short-term sublet on craigslist, which was taking a big chance because I had no idea if the sublets on craigslist were legit, and I also didn't know what a reasonable price was. Anyways, I am sure there would be significant demand if someone rented out short-term (3-6 months) rooms in Manhattan, where people new to the city could rent while moving to the city and getting settled. I ended up paying $1500/month when I moved to the city, so I think $1200-1500 a month for a room in a loft or a large apartment wouldn't be unreasonable.
So my question is, is it legal to sign a lease for a loft rental, and then sublet individual rooms? Or do you need special permission for this (and if so, can the permission be got, or is it not allowed, period)? If the answer is no, how do you do this then...must you be the owner of the apartment?
Thanks
The right to sublet is negotiated between tenant and landlord, and the contractual result is a written lease that allows or forbids subleases with or without a variety of restrictions and conditions.
If there are, say, a million leases in Manhattan, there are an equal number of answers to your question.
posted by gum at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2009
If there are, say, a million leases in Manhattan, there are an equal number of answers to your question.
posted by gum at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2009
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. I don't practice in New York City, either.
Generally, however, if you're leasing the apartment, the lease you sign with your landlord should have something in there about subletting, and it's usually to the tune of YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL ROOMMATES AT ALL or YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL ROOMMATES UNLESS THE SUBLEASE IS FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, UNLESS YOU GET PERMISSION FROM ME IN WRITING, I GET TO RUN A CREDIT CHECK, etc. Even if you own the apartment (and usually if you're a tenant, because there is a provision in your lease obligating you to follow building rules), it's going to depend on the building rules. Most of the "nicer" buildings have rules to prevent exactly this sort of setup because they worry about transient residents who are disruptive or won't take care of the space they're living in to the detriment of their neighbors.
If you're not not working with an apartment, the main issue will be local zoning rules, particularly maximum occupancy rules about how many unrelated people can live together. Depending on the setup, local ordinances and codes may apply, and you may also need to get a license as a landlord from the city.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2009
Generally, however, if you're leasing the apartment, the lease you sign with your landlord should have something in there about subletting, and it's usually to the tune of YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL ROOMMATES AT ALL or YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL ROOMMATES UNLESS THE SUBLEASE IS FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, UNLESS YOU GET PERMISSION FROM ME IN WRITING, I GET TO RUN A CREDIT CHECK, etc. Even if you own the apartment (and usually if you're a tenant, because there is a provision in your lease obligating you to follow building rules), it's going to depend on the building rules. Most of the "nicer" buildings have rules to prevent exactly this sort of setup because they worry about transient residents who are disruptive or won't take care of the space they're living in to the detriment of their neighbors.
If you're not not working with an apartment, the main issue will be local zoning rules, particularly maximum occupancy rules about how many unrelated people can live together. Depending on the setup, local ordinances and codes may apply, and you may also need to get a license as a landlord from the city.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2009
What you are suggesting might be considered an "illegal hotel" .
posted by Pineapplicious at 8:20 AM on October 2, 2009
posted by Pineapplicious at 8:20 AM on October 2, 2009
These two pages on tenant.net are the most pertinent to your question. Note especially that your agreement with the landlord is legally binding (there is no legally protected right to sublet) and if the landlord does agree to it, you are legally limited in the amount you can charge (no more than you are paying, unless the apartment is furnished in which case you may charge no more than a 10% increase).
Sublettors who find that their roommate or the apartment lessee who are breaking these rules can have all sorts of fun, including taking over the lease and getting back three times damages.
That said, I lived in a totally illegal sublet for almost three years with no problems. One roommate was the only person on the lease and everyone else rotated in and out of the three other bedrooms. None of us signed anything with her and she overcharged us in a way you would not believe. But it was still pretty cheap for Manhattan so we dealt with it. And she and I are still good friends.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:22 AM on October 2, 2009
Sublettors who find that their roommate or the apartment lessee who are breaking these rules can have all sorts of fun, including taking over the lease and getting back three times damages.
That said, I lived in a totally illegal sublet for almost three years with no problems. One roommate was the only person on the lease and everyone else rotated in and out of the three other bedrooms. None of us signed anything with her and she overcharged us in a way you would not believe. But it was still pretty cheap for Manhattan so we dealt with it. And she and I are still good friends.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:22 AM on October 2, 2009
I, a NYC landlord, like a single name on the lease because I don't want to have to chase down individual roommates and want one person to be responsible. I didn't renew the lease of one of my tenants because he sublet without asking permission and left the country. Instead, I drew up a new lease with those who were subletting as the primary tenant. I live on the premises so I know who is living there. Other landlords have no idea who lives in their building as long as the checks keep showing up.
Legally, the lease says whether or not you may sublet (and usually says you may not) but in practice, there are many illegal sublets going on in Manhattan.
posted by Obscure Reference at 12:13 PM on October 2, 2009
Legally, the lease says whether or not you may sublet (and usually says you may not) but in practice, there are many illegal sublets going on in Manhattan.
posted by Obscure Reference at 12:13 PM on October 2, 2009
I also didn't know what a reasonable price was. Anyways, I am sure there would be significant demand if someone rented out short-term (3-6 months) rooms in Manhattan, where people new to the city could rent while moving to the city and getting settled. I ended up paying $1500/month when I moved to the city, so I think $1200-1500 a month for a room in a loft or a large apartment wouldn't be unreasonable.
I'm still not sure you know what a reasonable price is. Yes, it varies a lot depending on location -- but my friends are all paying about $750 for sublets in medium-large two-bedroom apartments. And that's to have a private bedroom and share the rest of the apartment with one (or two) long-term roommates they know and trust. $1500/month to share a single room with multiple strangers for months on end?
I also think anyone with that kind of monthly rent budget would have plenty of other options available (like legit hotels, visiting the city to view apartments while still living elsewhere, etc.).
Finally, most housing decisions in New York can be made pretty quickly -- definitely within a month, but within days if necessary. Two weeks is about standard. I don't think you'd find many people willing to apartment-hunt for 3–6 months.
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:10 PM on October 2, 2009
I'm still not sure you know what a reasonable price is. Yes, it varies a lot depending on location -- but my friends are all paying about $750 for sublets in medium-large two-bedroom apartments. And that's to have a private bedroom and share the rest of the apartment with one (or two) long-term roommates they know and trust. $1500/month to share a single room with multiple strangers for months on end?
I also think anyone with that kind of monthly rent budget would have plenty of other options available (like legit hotels, visiting the city to view apartments while still living elsewhere, etc.).
Finally, most housing decisions in New York can be made pretty quickly -- definitely within a month, but within days if necessary. Two weeks is about standard. I don't think you'd find many people willing to apartment-hunt for 3–6 months.
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:10 PM on October 2, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Good luck!
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 8:07 AM on October 2, 2009