Not quite child abuse but damn it's close

October 1, 2009 7:05 AM

How do you stop feeling bad about situations that don't affect you directly and which you are powerless to alter? This involves other peoples' young children.

My wife and I know several very young children who aren't being raised right. Nothing necessarily bad enough to trigger Child Protective Services but still really horrible and scary environments. These kids seem destined to grow up to be maladjusted, unhappy burdens on society (criminal justice and/or welfare) like their parents and we're not at all close enough to any of the families to offer advice or anything. Any money sent their way would, if history is any guide, be spent on toys and crap for the parents. I feel like we're watching a slow motion trainwreck and I need to know how to stop dwelling on it.

Some of the thing's we've seen or heard about...
-Routinely forgotten medicines
-In-face full volume screaming at a toddler
-Kids living off juice and chips
-Another toddler constantly yelled at to the point where he is afraid of everything
-parents who leave their 8 month old for ten hours a day with an overworked and underpaid babysitter who tolerates it to make sure the baby gets food water and care it might not otherwise

There's more, there's worse but that's the general picture. As far as we know, no beatings or anything. Trying to get the government involved seems like it wouldn't really do anything but set the parents off. Coming up with doing nice things for the sitter mentioned above seems to be the extent of things we can do. How do I stop thinking about the rest? Jesus I hate myself for asking this.

posted by anonymous to human relations (22 comments total)

Honestly, that sounds worth a call to child protective services to me. If a visit by CPS doesn't "really do anything" then CPS is not doing its job. Sorry you're a witness to this--ugh.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:25 AM on October 1 [2 favorites]

I just want to say, the things you have described certainly constitute child abuse. Neglect is abuse. Report this to CPS. Please. It's really the least you can do. Doing so should help your peace of mind as well. Some more advice, only report the things that you have personally seen occuring.
posted by Duke999R at 7:26 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

Everything you've written above plus worse things? Plus all the stuff you don't know about?

You have two options: Call CPS or do nothing. I think you already know the answer to this.
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:28 AM on October 1 [4 favorites]

I don't know where you're located, but I'm willing to bet that CPS would consider this neglect.

It's really, really hard to see kids in a situation like this. Ask yourself--would you rather have tried to do something about this trainwreck, even if that something didn't work out?
posted by corey flood at 7:31 AM on October 1

Not quite child abuse but damn it's close?

Definitely child abuse.

I'd consider it to be abusing an adult if they were dependent on the person who forgot their meds, fed them crap, screamed in their face and they were scared of them.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:32 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

Look, a preview button.
But yes, what the good Admiral said.
This means a lot to me personally, I have my two young daughters in my care now due to similar neglect. Make the report, and continue to report any ongoing stuff that you witness. The CPS will prioritze more urgent cases, such as physical abuse, but something needs to be done. Good luck.
posted by Duke999R at 7:34 AM on October 1

It's a common mistake that CPS's job is to remove children from bad situations and that that's only their job. That's not the case. CPS can provide a case worker whose job it is to support the parents and keep things from getting bad enough that the kids would be removed from the home.

I wouldn't report it as an emergency abuse case, rather, you can call and ask if someone from CPS can check up on this family and if they can see if they qualify for any services (parenting classes, respite care if necessary, etc.). It may be that they won't do anything or won't do anything for awhile, but they may also be able to give you the number of another organization that could do a check-in for a non-emergent, but ongoing situation.
posted by zizzle at 7:39 AM on October 1 [7 favorites]

forgetting medicine is definitely neglect. someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe cps will also make it a priority to keep the children with the family and put the parents into parental education classes; so, a call from you is not necessarily going to tear them apart - it may improve things
posted by Think_Long at 7:41 AM on October 1

Another vote here for contacting CPS.
posted by jamesalbert at 7:44 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

-In-face full volume screaming at a toddler. Another toddler constantly yelled at to the point where he is afraid of everything

As someone who lived this type of childhood until I moved out at 21 (and returned back to that environment at 28 years old but could only take 6 months of it), I absolutely encourage you to get an intervention. I'm not a big fan of CPS because they're overworked and the risk of putting the kid in foster care is high. Foster care isn't a joy either. I would get the police and have the parent arrested. Otherwise call an abuse shelter and ask them what to do without involving CPS.

I can tell you first hand what these toddlers are feeling:
low self esteem
suicidal (yes even as a toddler)
no self confidence
anxiety
major depression
withdrawn
possible leading down the road of eating disorders (to gain some sort of control in their life) and self cutting
social maladjustment (lack of trust in people)
authority figure issues
poor school
physical health diminishing (due to depression)

There is zero positive coming out of this with this type of abuse continuing.

Personally I think the parents need a good ol ass kicking and jail time and the kid needs to go to a better environment with another family member who knows how to love and support a child.
posted by stormpooper at 7:53 AM on October 1 [4 favorites]

This is the situation I find myself in with my thirteen nieces and nephews (and before that, with some of their parents who are my siblings). I can't visit any of them without getting angry, and can't even talk about them without feeling hopeless about their futures. Those old enough to provide evidence of those likely futures have done nothing but confirm my fears (by making even more babies to grow up in cruddy situations).

I eventually had to compromise with myself to retain my sanity. I couldn't just stop visiting them altogether, they're family... but I cut it way back. I still make a special effort to see everyone and get them each something nice/fun at Christmas (which upsets their parents more often than not), and I keep the word out that my door is open if any of them ever need it to be (though only one sister has ever taken advantage of that). But other than that, I try not to get involved (it is not easy, and always a work in progress).

It sounds like "out of sight, less in mind" might not be an option for you, though.

On preview: those suggesting CPS either live in very different places than I, or have never actually dealt with them. I've both been the person asked to take kids if a call to CPS actually did something and the kid who was the reason for the call, and let's just say the experiences were both laughably pathetic and useless. CPS isn't acting on anything that doesn't involve obvious and egregious abuse (i.e., actually witnessed physical abuse or imminent starvation), because they just don't have the resources. If you want to upset yourself more over this situation, calling them is exactly what I would recommend you try. Sorry if that sounds negative, but well... it is.
posted by Pufferish at 8:05 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

How do you stop feeling bad

Do everything you can to change the situation.
You are not powerless, you are only hamstrung by social conventions which tell you to stay out of "situations that don't affect you directly ." You are not powerless. You have the power to speak up. Contact the authorities (CPS in your area?) and let them do their work. There are a lot of things that they can do to help. They will not just come in and start putting kids in foster homes.

Contact them again a month later if you don't see any changes. Keep doing that. Sometimes one visit is not enough for them them see the problems.

Social welfare agencies may not e perfect, but you don't know how they might help unless you try.
posted by SLC Mom at 8:17 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

From the American Psychological Association website:


How Can We End Abuse and Neglect?
Sometimes, people are afraid to report abuse or neglect because they don't want to break up a family. Sometimes, people are afraid to get involved in someone else's problem.

When you report suspected child abuse or neglect, you could be saving that child's life.

The goal of stopping abuse and neglect is to keep children safe. Part of keeping children safe is finding help for the adults who have hurt them. Adults who have abused or neglected a child have many places to turn for help.

The child's doctor can explain children's needs at every age. He or she can recommend places to learn more about parenting and child care.

*Local health and social service departments often have parenting classes. Social service workers also can help parents get assistance to ease their financial situations.
*Hospitals and community centers often have classes on stress reduction, parenting, discipline, and nutrition.
*Psychologists, counselors, and social workers can help parents and caregivers deal with problems like drug use, anger, and previous experiences of abuse.
*Religious groups often provide food, counseling, and other types of support for anyone in the community, not just their members.
* If you see that a relative, neighbor, or friend is under a lot of stress and might hurt children in their care, suggest that the person get help from one of these services. Stop the problem before it starts.

What Should I Do If I Suspect a Child Is Being Hurt?
Report your suspicion to a local, county or state child protection agency. Call a crisis hotline or find the agency number in the blue government pages of a telephone directory.

Where to Go for Help
Several organizations can provide information and advice about child abuse and neglect:

American Humane Association
63 Inverness Drive East
Englewood, CO 80112-5117
[phone]
www.americanhumane.org


Child Help USA
15757 North 78th Street
Scottsdale, AZ 85260
(800) 4-A-CHILD
www.childhelpusa.org


American Bar Association Center on Children and the Law
740 15th Street, NW, 9th floor
Washington, DC 20005-1009
[phone]
www.abanet.org/child


American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children
407 South Dearborn, Suite 1300
Chicago, IL 60605
[phone]
www.apsac.org


Family Violence and Sexual Assault Institute
1121 East S.E. Loop 323, Suite 130
Tyler, TX 75701
[phone]
Email: [e-mail]


National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect Information
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
PO Box 1182
Washington, DC 20013
(800) FYI-3366
www.calib.com/nccanch


National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse
332 S. Michigan Avenue, Suite 1600
Chicago, IL 60604-4357
[phone]
(800) CHILDREN — info. on getting involved/preventing abuse
(800) 55-NCPCA — info. on parenting/abuse
www.childabuse.org


National Organization for Victim Assistance
1757 Park Road NW
Washington, DC 20010
(800) TRY-NOVA
www.try-nova.org


Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network
635B Pennsylvania Avenue SE
Washington, DC 20003
(800) 656-HOPE
www.rainn.org


Please try to help these kids. They are being abused by neglect.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:37 AM on October 1 [11 favorites]

Zizzle is absolutely right in stating that support services are available to parents struggling with parenting--it is important, in your call, to make it clear that yes, you want the situation evaluated for abuse, but you would also strongly appreciate, in the event that abuse is not discovered, that these parents be made aware of any and all services and respite available to them and have follow-up visits by a social worker or educator. And yes, keep documenting the situation for yourself, and keep calling when it isn't acceptable to you.

It goes a very long way for a child in an abusive situation to understand a few things than you can help with:

*That the way they are being treated is not appropriate. You can communicate this by gently intervening in "auntie/uncle" types of ways, for example; toddler is being yelled at, tell parent "this is obviously a totally frustrating situation, it's a good thing they're cute, huh?" and then make eye contact with the little one, give a big smile, and ask the little one if they want to play with "auntie/uncle for a bit"--this is your chance to give some positive feedback to the kid. This kind of thing--keeping it a bit jokey and gently firm with the adult, stopping the situation, and giving positive time to kid really does go a long way to communicating "this situation is not OK. This is not how you treat people or children." Even if the whole sequence isn't possible, take time to make eye contact with the child and smile and offer encouraging words. I do this in public when I see a parent off their lid yelling at their kid--I just unobtrusively make eye contact with the child and smile.

*That it is possible to live another way. If you are able, providing respite babysitting, and then providing a loving, healthy environment during that time teaches kids a lot and makes a big impression. It can empower them to speak up to teachers and social workers, and know the difference between good situations and bad ones. Take the kids, keep your patience, model good conflict management, eat healthy food, wash hands and faces, etc.

*That there are trusted adults they can talk to. For older children, write them letters, visit, and call them regularly. This will go much farther than money. The kids learn that someone cares about them, what love is, and gives them a reliable point of contact. It also gives you the chance to check in. If the kids ask you for something--to go to a school event, to watch them dance, to visit, follow through. For older children, sending them books to read about loving families is another tool for them to understand how people are supposed to treat each other.

For the parents, if you can:

*Offer respite care.
*Listen, be a trusted point of contact that has a record of sympathetically listening in the event they grow to the point they can start sharing something to help the situation or want out.
*Stay calm and understand that your non-combative presence is a ticket to continued access to the kids.
*Say something nice to them when they DO do something, even something teeny, right "look at those pretty barrettes you got for your daughter--it's fun to get cute things for the kids."

I know that adults like you made a big difference with little gestures to kids like me, and now, that I often work with at-risk kids, I know that there is more you can do, with just a few small gestures, than you think. I'm thinking about you guys today!
posted by rumposinc at 8:53 AM on October 1 [3 favorites]

Not to be a total jackass, but you're coming off as self absorbed here in terms of being worried about your feelings and how do deal with this. I think that's a smaller issue compared to what the kids are going through.

There's only a couple of things you can do, either provide some sort of safe, healthy relationship via interacting with the children, calling CPS or avoiding the situation if you can, since it effects so you much to know about it.

You're worried too much, IMO, about wanting to fix this situation and make everything right. You don't have the power to that, so you need to let it go and realize you can't completely change this situation to your satisfaction. All you can do is figure what you can and are willing to provide and do that and accept that the little parts can mean a lot to the child.

If you can't do anything, then just step away, as much as possible.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:04 AM on October 1 [1 favorite]

I am going to go against the grain a little here and question where on the spectrum of stressed out parents-->neglect and abuse the situation falls. Without more detail than is given, I can't say; and I work with children and their families every day and am a parent myself, so I have some experience in the area. For example, anon. mentioned forgetting medications. What medication for what illness? How often are they forgotten? When my daughter was younger she had to be on antibiotics every day for over a year. You better believe a few doses were left out in that time, but not enough to cause any problems. Screaming at a toddler: once again it depends on whether this is a regular occurance or isolated incident; parents who have never lost it with their kids are few and far between indeed. Living off juice and chips? My own daughter's pediatrician admits to having a child of his own who ate almost nothing but McDonald's french fries for a year; toddlers can be amazingly stubborn when it comes to food. And anon. states that they haven't even witnessed some of these things firsthand. Especially to non-parents, some of the behavior of parents, especially when stressed out for whatever reason can look pretty bad, but the fact is parenting is a 24/7/365 job and we all screw it up from time to time, sometimes spectacularly.

A call to CPS is not inappropriate if you are concerned, but as Pufferish mentioned above that may be a disappointment. Where I live the state budget has been cut to the bone with many employees required to take unpaid furloughs. This has left child welfare agencies with few resources to deal with any but the worst cases. Magstheaxe has some other resources that may be worth a call.

I agree more with those who suggest some personal involvement. Have you met the parents? If not, try getting to know them. Then you can invite them over for dinner, offer to help with baby-sitting, and just be around as a stable adult influence in the children's lives. I know my own mother has played that role for some neighbors who were not abusive or neglectful but had a very chaotic family situation. In any event, it is hard to predict how the children involved will turn out. In the case of my mother's neighbors, the oldest child is on a full academic scholarship to a prestigious university; the youngest was recently arrested for some petty crime. Good luck, and good for you for being concerned enough to get involved.
posted by TedW at 9:43 AM on October 1

Some things that are very difficult and sad are nearly impossible to control or fix. You can call CPS as some here have suggested. This can sometimes help if there is another family member who can help or (co)parent. Me, I would try to be kind. Kind to the children, kind to the parents. Model a different way to interact. Smile, laugh, praise. When the kids are old enough, if you still know them, you can tell them that you recognize that they have gotten a raw deal, that you disagree with what they are living with, with how their parents are parenting.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:15 AM on October 1

My wife and I know several very young children who aren't being raised right. Nothing necessarily bad enough to trigger Child Protective Services but still really horrible and scary environments.

You say they aren't being raised "right." You realize that means according to what you think is right, don't you?

Some of the thing's we've seen or heard about...
-Routinely forgotten medicines
-In-face full volume screaming at a toddler
-Kids living off juice and chips
-Another toddler constantly yelled at to the point where he is afraid of everything
-parents who leave their 8 month old for ten hours a day with an overworked and underpaid babysitter who tolerates it to make sure the baby gets food water and care it might not otherwise

I don't know how much you're hearing and how much you're witnessing, but I think you sound like you think you know everything there is to know, despite not being related to these people. As for the kids living off juice and chips, that's not your business either unless the kids are coming to your house begging for food because they are malnourished.

As for the 8-month old, the baby is being left with a babysitter and not a dog. It's not your business how much the babysitter is or isn't being paid. They negotiated their own rate. If they are complaining about it now, it's not your business either.

I think you should stay out of their business and stop judging them when everything you know appears to be hearsay. You don't know anything about the parents, who they are or their situations. You don't know what might or might not be wrong with the kids. You admit it's not bad enough for CPS, but that you consider it a horrible and scary environment. They aren't your children, and you don't know that they'll grow up to be maladjusted.

Lots of children are raised in what some people think are "horrible and scary" environments. Unless you're family, and you don't think it's bad enough to trigger CPS, and the kids aren't begging you for help, I suggest you stay out of it.
posted by anniecat at 11:14 AM on October 1 [2 favorites]

I've worked in foster care, and without additional information this doesn't strike me as enough to merit a CPS call, unless we're talking about medicine for something life-threatening. Nor do I think making a call would result in anything besides resentment, hostility and paranoia from the parents, possibly vented at the kids or resulting in isolating them if they think it likely that neighbors or the school called it in. Parents strongly resent social worker and CPS interference, and nobody ever thinks they need parenting classes. Can you imagine a worse stigma than being told you're a bad parent and getting the city called on you? It makes people incredibly defensive and angry.

Being a positive influence is probably a better road, if you can hack it. There's some good advice in this thread for that strategy.
posted by Marnie at 1:46 PM on October 1 [1 favorite]

on reflection, I guess I would amend my previous answer. I agree more with those who say there is not enough information to go on and your observations are extremely limited. Perhaps more personal involvement on your part would improve things and it would serve a double purpose: you would be a positive and engaging neighbor, and you would learn more about their family and the extent of their issues.
posted by Think_Long at 3:41 PM on October 1

I'm hoping you will decide to call CPS. The things you say in your post are worrisome on their own, but more worrisome is the fact that there is at least one child, maybe more, that is not yet school-age. You, your wife, and the babysitter may be the only adults (other than the parents) who know what's going on with those kids. In CPS language, they are neither visible in the community nor old enough to self-protect.

Calling CPS doesn't necessarily mean that the children will be removed from the home. It does mean that these children will encounter one more set of adult eyes looking at their situation, another person who will be able to go into the home, talk to the parents and the babysitter and the kids (if any are old enough) and determine how best to help the family. You asked how to stop dwelling on this situation; in my opinion, turning it over to professionals who are trained to assess these situations and intervene in helpful ways is the perfect way. I'll be hoping for the best for you and for the children.
posted by epj at 5:41 PM on October 1

You don't say what your relationship to these children is.

I don't understand leave their 8 month old for ten hours a day with an overworked and underpaid babysitter who tolerates it to make sure the baby gets food water and care it might not otherwise
Is the babysitter safe and reasonably caring?

Most Child Protective Services offices are overwhelmed with cases, and must triage. Define your concerns:
- children are not getting enough calories
- children are getting poor nutrition
- frequently not taking prescribed medication
- emotionally abusive discipline

There's a lot that CPS can do. They can make sure the family is getting whatever services may be available. They can mandate parenting classes. They can provide respite care. They can enlist family members to help overwhelmed parents.

You could do some of the above, and if they are neighbors, can you volunteer to have the kids over 1 afternoon a week? You can provide a lot of stability as a friend. If they are family, then enlist other family members to do an intervention.

Most of all you can be compassionate. Maybe these parents have no model for healthy parenting. Maybe there's mental illness, alcoholism or other factors involved. Parenting can be difficult in ways that are not always obvious. A compassionate attitude, at minimum, will give you more credibility. Thanks for caring about these kids.
posted by theora55 at 5:49 PM on October 1