Should I drop out of an elite business school?

September 30, 2009 6:54 PM

Considering dropping out of a top 5 business school in the US, because I hate it. I'm an entrepreneur with a social conscience and not really driven by money. Help!

I am attending a top 5 business school in the US for an MBA (H/S/W/M/K, etc.). I just started about a month and a half ago. I was very anxious about attending in the first place, as I wasn't sure whether it was worth the $150k to attend. But I have a nontraditional background (entrepreneur), so I thought it would be good to get the credential, maybe I'd learn something, etc. Since I got in, I figured I may as well take this opportunity while it was available. Who knows, maybe I could make a lot of money from it some day.

However...

I HATE IT!

These are the things I hate:

- The social scene: I'm kind of a geek and a nonconformist. I don't like to drink, I don't have a lot of corporate experience (and don't want anymore of it), and I don't play golf. I worked in finance for a while and I'd forgotten how much I HATE that social scene.

- The classes: There's one class I like (on leadership), but the others seem to be pretty useless for practical application to business situations. There's a lot of academic research on social psychology, strategy, etc. It's interesting, but I can read that sort of stuff on my own time. I know all of the accounting and finance I really want to know (and can learn more from a book if I want to).

- The administration: It's worse than high school. They have very strict rules about attendance, class protocol, etc. They seem to want to control students rather than help them flourish. It gives me flashbacks and reminds me why I have an anti-authority streak.

- I am starting to lose my mind. Seriously, I have started seeing a psychiatrist and have recently been diagnosed with ADD (probably has been an undiagnosed problem my whole life) and depression (and maybe some other things). I am coming home every day simply beaten up by the experience of being at the school.

Good things:

- My classmates are smart, interesting, and articulate.

- THE CREDENTIAL. It's a very elite business school, and the name may open doors for me. However, I'm a good networker and already have a fancy undergrad degree, so that's not as valuable for me as it might be for others.

- Self-esteem. I have struggled with low self-esteem my whole life and maybe getting this elite graduate degree will help.

Other opportunities:

- I could start another grad program in another area in a few months, one that I turned down for this program. It's not business school, and would be a lot more interesting (if not potentially as lucrative).

- A friend and I are starting a company that may take off in the next few months (but may not).

HOWEVER,

I am TERRIFIED, simply TERRIFIED that by quitting I would be making the worst mistake of my life, etc. It's unlikely that I would ever get into a program as elite as this one again. What if someday I want to make $120k a year at some marketing manager job? What if I want to join a private equity firm? By leaving, I'd be leaving a lot of potential money on the table. I'm not driven by money, but I might be someday, and might regret this.

Vital stats about me and the situation:
- Late 20s/early 30s
- I don't have a lot of savings, so I am paying for this with loans.
- I cannot easily take a leave of absence; the school is very strict about that.
- I'm kind of a kid at heart and don't want to settle down into a "normal" suburban American life. I'm not very materialistic and don't get into designer brands, big houses, etc.

If I quit, will I regret it forever?

posted by anonymous to Education (24 answers total)

If this is one of the elite schools, do they have a joint degree program you could enroll in as well?
posted by availablelight at 7:04 PM on September 30, 2009

What kind of job could you land with this degree which wouldn't have a work culture similar to the school you hate?
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:09 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]

I am TERRIFIED, simply TERRIFIED that by quitting I would be making the worst mistake of my life, etc. It's unlikely that I would ever get into a program as elite as this one again.

You said it yourself, you hate it, and you aren't driven by money. Therefore, I don't think you would ever regret quitting. The only thing you are giving up is a chance to maybe someday make more money.

Also Obscure Reference nailed it. If you don't like being around dentists, there are at least two reasons not to go to dental school.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:13 PM on September 30, 2009

A professor told me, when I was in graduate school, that you can like the things a degree will enable you to do, without liking the process of getting the graduate degree. (He said it more elegantly than that, but that's the essence of what he said.) And yes, it seems self-evident, but his insight resonated with me.

Graduate programs are not supposed to be enjoyable. They are supposed to stretch us, challenge us, make us uncomfortable, get us interacting with people we might not be comfortable interacting with.

You seem very quick to distinguish yourself in moral/ethical terms from your classmates. You're heavily emphasizing that you're not into money, not materialistic, not into designer brands, not into big houses, etc.

It seems to me that you are very comfortable --- pleased --- with yourself. You've ridden into this graduate program on a high horse and it almost seems that you have set yourself up for failure. Perhaps you are intimidated by these people with high-powered corporate experience? Perhaps you are intimidated by the self-assured, confident classmates? Perhaps there's more to this than "I'm morally righteous and they're depraved, shallow, money-grubbing capitalists"?

You're stereotyping your classmates. Get to know them and give them a chance to show you that they are not all conformist, McMansion-dwelling corporate creeps.

Just some thoughts. I think there's some interesting subtext to your question that suggests work you need to do on yourself --- and that perhaps, you might benefit from the broadening experience that business school provides ... such as, not viewing everything in such black and white terms.
posted by jayder at 7:14 PM on September 30, 2009 [8 favorites]

You've only been there a month and a half. It's definitely long enough for you to know that you to hate it, but not long enough to discover if that hate is going to fade, or if you could find other outlets that will help make it bearable. Don't be hasty. You can always quit tomorrow, but once you quit, getting back in (there or anywhere) is going to be difficult.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:15 PM on September 30, 2009

How many doors would this degree open to an entepreneur, how many people who can give you start up capital would it impress? I cannot advise you on how to manage feeling so constricted by the rules and repulsed by the culture. However, would quitting make your ADD and depression better or worse? Can you work out a plan to survive? Break things into manageable chunks, eg., if I manage until x date and do y, I can carry on until z? Has your doctor given you coping strategies as well as meds? Some medications take a while before they are effective, and not all meds work well with everyone. I'd advise thrashing out your options with your doctor and describing to her/him the symptoms you've noted here as it is a complicated situation you find yourself in. Perhaps getting used to the meds is part of the problem? As for the classes, I would expect the material to become more relevant as you go on.
posted by x46 at 7:23 PM on September 30, 2009

The "best" school is not always the best school for you.
posted by milarepa at 7:25 PM on September 30, 2009

You might regret quitting. Just stay in, get treated for your ADD, make great friends, build networks (this will always be important regardless of how much money you want to make), and just have fun. Just don't fail out. You can't go wrong with a top 5 MBA.

Or you could take a leave of absence and do something else until you feel like returning.
posted by anniecat at 7:44 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]

I think you need to think about your long-term career goals more (aside from possibly working as a marketing manager someday) and figure out what will help you on that path. I think an MBA program could be flexible. With the right internships, extracurricular work, research assistantships, and the selection of friends (who are, after all, articulate, smart, and interesting), you might really be able to make this program do what you want rather than vice-versa.

Since you're starting a company, why not see if you can find potential partners/advisers/employees/funders in or through students or faculty? And perhaps use your classes and assignments to think about your startup in the relevant contexts? Etc.
posted by shivohum at 7:50 PM on September 30, 2009

From everything you've said, it seems like an executive MBA program is tailor-made for you. Most of the top universities -- perhaps even yours -- offer a more accelerated, more focused MBA program designed specifically for people who have work experience and are unwilling to take two years off their career to obtain the degree. People like you.

Although every university structures their program just a bit differently, most of them have one or two days of classes each week (usually Friday and/or Saturday; often alternating Fridays and Saturdays), with heavy demands for group study/project work on weeknights, without shortchanging their regular jobs.

These EMBA programs are quite prestigious, even relative to a top 5 school such as the one you're attending. As to your other issues: there is no social scene, there is little bullshit to deal with, the professors love rubbing elbows with up-and-coming executives and are very responsive to students' needs, and the atmosphere is all about learning something to help one's career. In short, pretty much what you're looking for.
posted by DrGail at 8:00 PM on September 30, 2009

You mentioned that you were getting treatment with a psychiatrist at this point. Good for you. Being aware of your situation and yourself is very important and quite frankly shows that you're not as deflated as you may think. That being said, I think that you should wait a bit more to gather some more input and information of what would happen if you did quit and what your other alternatives are before you make any big decisions such as this one.

Could you find out from the alumni office, info. on what people do after they graduate with the degree? Gather data on what companies or what fields they enter upon and how they use their degree. Is there a linkage between hiring programs? What percentage of people go on to do independent research, etc? Or, even getting a few names of people who are successful or seem to be active in the alumni association who you could ask what they are up to and get into contact. This way, you could get some "feelers" of what it looks like to go beyond the degree. And as for your other opportunities and plans if you dropped out, do you actually have specific plans to help make those ideas feasible? Wait till you get more info. on what it would like to drop out, you may just be going through the tough breaking period of being in school.
posted by proficiency101 at 8:10 PM on September 30, 2009

availablelight: "If this is one of the elite schools, do they have a joint degree program you could enroll in as well?"

That's what darainwa did - he wasn't crazy about Law school, so he added a joing MS in neuro
posted by radioamy at 8:16 PM on September 30, 2009

If you are a geek, a non-conformist, and an anti-authoritarian, I can't imagine you would be terribly happy in the sort of job that your top-5 school is designed to help you get.
posted by Wordwoman at 8:22 PM on September 30, 2009

I had the exact same issues as you. First, I decided to attend the night school of the Top 5 MBA program rather than the day. I was accepted to the day initially. The night students were much more hands on and practical oriented as to what was happening in the real world. I missed a few night classes so went to the day version with the same teacher and I can tell you there was a much different tone. THe day students asked if this was on the test. The night students asked if the teacher had an example of this actually being successful in the real world. The social scene was much different too. I had a lot of group work at night which we did on the weekends. During the night classes, it was strictly school focused. I met a few good friends who are friends to this day years later, but we would sit together in class and get a beer or four after, but we all had an outside life and led them.

One story I can tell as an example was my options class. I was a floor trader on the CBOE at the time. I thought it would be an easy A. The teacher was teaching the theory of options and how to derive the Black Scholes formula, etc. THe class turned out to be so theoretical that I did not even understand half of what he was teaching. I asked the teacher if I could put his teaching to practical use. I arranged for the CBOE to have a mock trading session on the floor one day after the close as they did for new members. The class and teacher came down to the floor and were paralyzed and overwhelmed with their theory and lack of practical understanding. They could not make a decision nor a profitable trade. My classmate who was a trader on the CBOT and I literally took every theoretical dollar the other classmates and teacher were given at the start. My teacher came up to me and thanked me and told me he now understood the difference between theory and practice although he did not think he could practice the art of trading options for a living. (He also gave me the A.)

My degree is the exact same as the ones the cats got during the day. No difference except that I had to take 2 less classes to graduate and it cost less to do it ala carte paying by class. Same teachers, same access to interviews if you want it, same privileges in terms of facility use, etc. I had access to the school gym, pool and sporting events. Only difference was I was taking my classes in downtown Chicago rather than outside the city.

As for the ultimate worth of the degree. I thought it did exactly what you think it might; give me certain credentials. It opened doors or at least gave me credibility when I was pitching ideas or business plans. I would say that only half the classes had much practical use for me. But I know that depending on what field an MBA graduate goes into, not every class is relevant. I thought the accounting and finance classes were a plus. The org behavior and marketing classes less so.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:31 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]

If you are at the "S" top-5 school that is located geographically close to the "H" one, please get in touch with me directly. There are so so soooo many opportunities for you both in and out of the business school proper, and you just may not have found out about them yet.

This may true of the other universities as well: the grad students and professional (e.g. business) students only get a narrow perspective of what the school offers, but their skills are needed in all kinds of ways for projects that match their passions. You won't necessarily avoid all of the crap, but you can shape your experience to be something you will love and benefit from.
posted by whatzit at 8:35 PM on September 30, 2009

As a fellow geek who has been an MBA and who now teaches entrepreneurs at one of those schools, I can say that I sympathize, but you may be selling it a bit short. Your core MBA curriculum may not give you a huge amount of skills that are directly applicable to running a business (Don't overlook organizational behavior, though, it often turns out to be surprisingly useful) and, at some schools, the first semester, especially, feels like finance or banking redux, with little flexibility, too much drinking, and too much golf.

BUT there are also lots of opportunities to take advantage of, especially in the second year of most programs, where there are more electives and opportunities for cross registration. If you are at MIT or Harvard, do the 100k, take courses at the Kennedy School or Media Lab, and explore the Boston start-up scene with an internship at a neat firm or VC over the summer. At Wharton, do the Wharton Business Plan Competition, spend some time with WEP, and go to some seminars in biomed or technology, or whatever gets you going. Talk to the MSE people at Stanford. I am less familiar with Chicago, but expect the same things abound. Also, seek out faculty. If you have a genuine interest in the kind of work they do, it can be really rewarding for both people.

In the end, I had my own little group of geekier, more entrepreneurial MBA friends. Several started companies. Some work in video games. Some design theme park rides. And some of the bankers I dismissed in the first couple weeks turned out to be amazing people, once the initial hazing was over.

I can't tell you whether you should stay in or leave the program, but you should be able to make it better match your interests, especially in future semesters. Good luck either way.
posted by blahblahblah at 9:58 PM on September 30, 2009

Explore your opportunities for cross-registration with other graduate programs or other schools in the area. Will your program let you take 1-2 classes each semester at--say--the public policy school?
posted by moreandmoreso at 10:01 PM on September 30, 2009

Pretty much everyone hates B-school - even the people who won't admit it.

I survived, pretty happily actually, by taking courses outside of the business curriculum. My classes at the Divinity and Engineering schools probably saved my sanity. Also, there's the whole social world of the university outside of your school. Go be part of that. In 2 years, I rarely spent time with my MBA classmates outside of classes or study group. To my surprise, I still hear from quite a few of them nearly a decade after graduation.

Lets get pragmatic with the sunk costs dilemma. You've already got 37K in sunk costs, (150K/4 semesters). If you finish the degree, you may recoup those costs. I'm not sure what value you'll get for you 37K if you have no degree to show for it.

I can't tell you to finish the degree, but I suggest you finish the semester. At that point, you'll have a very fair view of the program and what's required. Also, you'll have your credits and can take a leave of absence if you choose.
posted by 26.2 at 10:58 PM on September 30, 2009

I have a nontraditional background (entrepreneur)

I don't have a lot of corporate experience

I don't have a lot of saving

One of these things is not like the other.

Perhaps the idea of an MBA (as a cosign to being able to call oneself an entrepreneur) is more attractive than the actual reality of it. $150k is a huge amount of money. You could live off that money for several years, or buy a house, etc etc.

I have personally found that doing things you don't enjoy rarely leads to things that you do enjoy. When they actually do, they don't suck so much.
posted by smoke at 11:54 PM on September 30, 2009

Business school is definitely rough, but look at it this way: you're getting pushed and prodded and stretched for a reason. The Profs aren't sadists (well, not all of them anyway!) and genuinely have your best interests in mind.

As DrGail notes, Executive MBA programmes are very different. I took an Executive MBA (just finishing my dissertation) and her points re: socialising, receptiveness of profs is spot on.

With classes from midday Friday to Sunday evening - also preclass reading material and homework - it was quite a grind, especially so as I did it while working, but well worth it in terms of what I learned and skills I acquired. Yup. I seriously floundered sometimes, particularly at the start but once I got a better grasp on time management and what was being asked of me I thrived.

In terms of content, I agree that some classes seem totally worthless. But stick with it; you don't have the perspective yet, and sometimes these classes interact in ways that you can't envision at the outset.

For example, at my programme our Leadership and Strategic Management class drew heavily on Human Resources; but when we sat HR we all thought parts of the material was non relevant. And IT WAS - at least for the HR class. But it was very relevant for the Leadership class, and had to be presented in an HR context because it introduced us to theories on individual motivation that only made sense in a specific context.

What you're feeling now lots of people go through, some dealing with it more successfully than others. I'd suggest you focus on the things you like and tolerate what you don't find so appealing.

If you can get through at least one term you'll be in a much stronger position for a couple of reasons:

First, leave of absence. Lots of folks taking an MBA need one. I had to take one, due to work (I did't ask for employer assistance for my MBA, but once my employer at the time found out they were NOT supportive at all, primarily due to the enhanced career mobility an MBA offers, so I changed jobs) issues but administration has heard it all. One guy in our programme took a year out due to stress, and from what learned by talking to him it was a non event from the administration side.

Second, changing programmes. After one term you'll be in a better position to switch to an eMBA programme. Doing so in the middle of the term may not be possible at all, or may delay your completion date.

Here's how I see it - you were fantastic enough to impress admissions, and with a non traditional background you got in to an elite programme. That's seriously awesome! So you're capable of finishing the programme, or at least getting to a point where you can better control the outcome.

It does seem to me like you're just going through a rough patch, something lots of us in B-School struggle with, but if you stick with it and focus in a very, very short period of time (i.e., term end), you'll be in a much stronger position to control your outcome.

If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to email.

Best of luck!
posted by Mutant at 12:15 AM on October 1, 2009

If you took out a 150k loan and started a business today, where do you think you might be in two years? My take is this: A large population of those attending a top 5 business school are smart / savvy / motivated enough to create a successful business without completing the MBA.
posted by jasondigitized at 5:51 AM on October 1, 2009

I was once in a very similar position - top 5, nontraditional background, debt looming, unhappy. I ended up walking away. I certainly don't regret the decision. In fact, it's probably one of the best calls I've ever made, but in the months after I departed I had some lucky breaks, and if not for them, I'd probably be singing a very different tune today.

So, here are the things I'd recommend you consider before you make the call:

Are you a school person, or are you a work person? This was a big one for me. I've never thrived in an academic environment, but at work, I'm at my best. The vibes are just different and I think it's very hard to make one resemble the other.

What are your goals? The credential will be useful in certain situations but worthless in others, so the degree should not be the end in and of itself. I know it's hard to look to the future and feel certainty but you probably have a good idea of where you want to go. Do you need an MBA to get there or might your time and treasure be used to do other things with more obvious benefits?

Are you up for a slog? Like many other posters, I'm sure you can make it through school. You can probably even make it work for you. However, just because it's possible and generally advisable, doesn't mean it should be done. There are always other, perhaps better, options.

Finally, if you do decide to leave, I'd encourage you to at least try to smooth the path before making your exit. When I left it was mostly because I came to the conclusion that two years of purposeful work would be more beneficial than school, but I didn't have a job when I took off. I got lucky though and landed a good gig shortly thereafter. Being older and wiser than I was then, I doubt I would take the same risk today.

So I'd say don't leave school without a plan, and even if you have a plan, make sure it's a workable one before you jump ship. Good luck.
posted by theexpgen at 10:10 AM on October 1, 2009

follow-up from the OP

For those who said it might be okay to drop out: How do I explain my time there? Should I just leave it off my resume/bio? Or do you say, "I dropped out of X school to form a company/travel to France/become a beachcomber/etc."? If you do mention it, does it add a coolness factor to your story or just make you sound weird?

How do you think my fellow classmates will perceive me? Can I call on them as a network still? Will they ostracize me or just think I made a personal decision?

posted by jessamyn at 8:11 PM on October 1, 2009

If the gap is less than 6 months, I'd leave it off the resume. It'll be a gap, but a lot of people will have similar gaps in this economy. It probably won't come up in an interview unless it's on your resume or you bring it up specifically. I think the biggest risk will be interviewing with someone who has an MBA. That person may make the assumption that you simply couldn't cut it in B-School.

On the formal job application, you'll probably need to list all schools attended. Include it there.
posted by 26.2 at 9:43 AM on October 2, 2009