Need a latin translation
September 30, 2009 3:23 PM Subscribe
Latin scholars, I want to get a tattoo that reads: 'Live a proud life' and I don't know if it is going to be in the same statement, 'live a strenuous life'
So far I have this that I gleaned from the web:
live a proud life : vivere a altus vita
live a strenious life: vivere a ops vita
They are no direct translations, but the ones that I found that were the closest.
So far I have this that I gleaned from the web:
live a proud life : vivere a altus vita
live a strenious life: vivere a ops vita
They are no direct translations, but the ones that I found that were the closest.
Parsing:
Live
Vivere is the infinitive (to live), you are looking for an imperative voice: Vive
a proud
You will want the direct object, singular, feminine adjective for proud here. Reason for this is because "life" is a singular, feminine noun which is the direct object of the understood "you" the imperative voice assumes. For the word choice you are looking for, I would recommend haughty, proud. The singular, feminine, direct object form of which is:
Superbam
life
This one is easy. You need the singular, accusative of life. vitam
Thus:
Vive superbam vitam
Pronounced "Weewe superbam witam"
*6 years of latin in HS and college
**Consult an expert, I am not your latin teacher.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:46 PM on September 30, 2009
Live
Vivere is the infinitive (to live), you are looking for an imperative voice: Vive
a proud
You will want the direct object, singular, feminine adjective for proud here. Reason for this is because "life" is a singular, feminine noun which is the direct object of the understood "you" the imperative voice assumes. For the word choice you are looking for, I would recommend haughty, proud. The singular, feminine, direct object form of which is:
Superbam
life
This one is easy. You need the singular, accusative of life. vitam
Thus:
Vive superbam vitam
Pronounced "Weewe superbam witam"
*6 years of latin in HS and college
**Consult an expert, I am not your latin teacher.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:46 PM on September 30, 2009
As kenko says, those "translations" are crap.
The problem with "pride" is that it's a very modern concept, and there isn't a direct Latin synonym for it. "Altus" means either "highfalutin" or "on a higher plane"; "superbus" absolutely means "haughty" or "puffed-up" rather than "justly taking pride in something"; "fastosus" means "haughty" or "self-aggrandizing" as well.
Which aspect of "pride" do you most wish to communicate? Self-confidence? Self-reliance? Dignity? Personal integrity?
Similarly with "strenuous"--which aspect of that do you want to communicate? Physically active? Taking on challenges? Daring?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:51 PM on September 30, 2009
The problem with "pride" is that it's a very modern concept, and there isn't a direct Latin synonym for it. "Altus" means either "highfalutin" or "on a higher plane"; "superbus" absolutely means "haughty" or "puffed-up" rather than "justly taking pride in something"; "fastosus" means "haughty" or "self-aggrandizing" as well.
Which aspect of "pride" do you most wish to communicate? Self-confidence? Self-reliance? Dignity? Personal integrity?
Similarly with "strenuous"--which aspect of that do you want to communicate? Physically active? Taking on challenges? Daring?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:51 PM on September 30, 2009
Under no circumstances use "superbus" as a positive attribute. It means "stuck-up." Superbia is one of the ancient Christians' Seven Deadly Sins for that reason--I am assuming you don't want your tattoo to be advocating living a stuck-up life?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:52 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:52 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The problem with "pride" is that it's a very modern concept
Aristotle's great-souled man might disagree! Which doesn't mean that it's any easier to find a good translation.
"superbia" apparently has positive and negative senses, so maybe it's an ok choice after all, though Tarquinius Superbus appears to have been more of the haughty stamp. (And he's the first person I think of when I see "superbus".)
But I'm not really a Latinist so these specific vocabulary things will escape my abilities.
posted by kenko at 3:55 PM on September 30, 2009
Aristotle's great-souled man might disagree! Which doesn't mean that it's any easier to find a good translation.
"superbia" apparently has positive and negative senses, so maybe it's an ok choice after all, though Tarquinius Superbus appears to have been more of the haughty stamp. (And he's the first person I think of when I see "superbus".)
But I'm not really a Latinist so these specific vocabulary things will escape my abilities.
posted by kenko at 3:55 PM on September 30, 2009
Sorry for the many posts: I am Fragmentary McFragmented today. The reason you should be wary of what your tattoos mean to people who are fluent in Latin is that those are the only people who are going to be able to read them.
People who can't read Latin will believe that they say whatever you tell them, and "superbus" sounds awesome if you don't know its meaning in Latin. People who can read Latin will think that you are a jackass who either has a tattoo you can't read or that you're a proud snob. I don't know which would be worse.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:56 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
People who can't read Latin will believe that they say whatever you tell them, and "superbus" sounds awesome if you don't know its meaning in Latin. People who can read Latin will think that you are a jackass who either has a tattoo you can't read or that you're a proud snob. I don't know which would be worse.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:56 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What definition of "pride" are you looking for?
1. feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often fol. by of, an infinitive, or a clause).
2. having, proceeding from, or showing a high opinion of one's own dignity, importance, or superiority.
3. having or showing self-respect or self-esteem.
4. highly gratifying to the feelings or self-esteem: It was a proud day for him when his son entered college.
5. highly honorable or creditable: a proud achievement.
6. stately, majestic, or magnificent: proud cities.
7. of lofty dignity or distinction: a proud name; proud nobles.
8. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. pleased; happy: I'm proud to meet you.
9. full of vigor and spirit: a proud young stallion.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:59 PM on September 30, 2009
1. feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often fol. by of, an infinitive, or a clause).
2. having, proceeding from, or showing a high opinion of one's own dignity, importance, or superiority.
3. having or showing self-respect or self-esteem.
4. highly gratifying to the feelings or self-esteem: It was a proud day for him when his son entered college.
5. highly honorable or creditable: a proud achievement.
6. stately, majestic, or magnificent: proud cities.
7. of lofty dignity or distinction: a proud name; proud nobles.
8. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. pleased; happy: I'm proud to meet you.
9. full of vigor and spirit: a proud young stallion.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:59 PM on September 30, 2009
Use the The Latin Translator service. Your translation will be done by a bona fide (latin!) scholar and is quite affordable.
posted by elle.jeezy at 4:05 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by elle.jeezy at 4:05 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Latin Translator even has a tattoo service. I strongly urge you to use them. I have used them and I was very satisfied. I also hold an undergraduate degree in Classical Studies.
posted by elle.jeezy at 4:09 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by elle.jeezy at 4:09 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: To clear a couple of things that I now realize that I really missed; What I want to say is:
"I want to live a proud life"
"I should 'or need to' live a strenuous life"
The version of "proud" I am going for is:
Proud as in I am proud of what I have done.
I do not want it to say that that, "I am better than you", but more of, "I am proud of what I have done," or " I am proud of what I am about to do." More of a self-reliance or self-confidence thing.
And "strenuous" as in taking on challenges, ala, Teddy Roosevelt; "Live the strenuous life."
posted by Botunda at 4:31 PM on September 30, 2009
"I want to live a proud life"
"I should 'or need to' live a strenuous life"
The version of "proud" I am going for is:
Proud as in I am proud of what I have done.
I do not want it to say that that, "I am better than you", but more of, "I am proud of what I have done," or " I am proud of what I am about to do." More of a self-reliance or self-confidence thing.
And "strenuous" as in taking on challenges, ala, Teddy Roosevelt; "Live the strenuous life."
posted by Botunda at 4:31 PM on September 30, 2009
This tool has helped me in the past when trying to figure out the context of some latin words. It allows you to search the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible.
Basically, just search for whatever in the search box, and read the verses that follow. If you find a verse that uses the word in the context you are looking for, see what the latin equivalent is. This will at least give you a list of adjectives to work with.
posted by yoyoceramic at 4:43 PM on September 30, 2009
Basically, just search for whatever in the search box, and read the verses that follow. If you find a verse that uses the word in the context you are looking for, see what the latin equivalent is. This will at least give you a list of adjectives to work with.
posted by yoyoceramic at 4:43 PM on September 30, 2009
Best answer: Proud as in I am proud of what I have done.
That sounds like proud on account of something! But it doesn't really make sense; your life won't be proud in that sense, though it might be characterized by your being proud in that sense quite often. (I guess if we can transfer the sense in English, though, we an do so in Latin as well.)
Anyway: vivam animosam vivere volo!
There are lots of ways to express obligation or necessity in Latin. Staying with enixus you could say e.g.:
vivam enixam vivere oportet
viva enixa vivenda est
necesse est vivam enixam vivere
posted by kenko at 4:52 PM on September 30, 2009
That sounds like proud on account of something! But it doesn't really make sense; your life won't be proud in that sense, though it might be characterized by your being proud in that sense quite often. (I guess if we can transfer the sense in English, though, we an do so in Latin as well.)
Anyway: vivam animosam vivere volo!
There are lots of ways to express obligation or necessity in Latin. Staying with enixus you could say e.g.:
vivam enixam vivere oportet
viva enixa vivenda est
necesse est vivam enixam vivere
posted by kenko at 4:52 PM on September 30, 2009
yoyoceramic, "vivo" is not (classically) a transitive verb, so it shouldn't take an object (I. I think you'd normally use something like "ago" (or "perago") or "duco" with "vitam". (I'm finding some 19th and 20th century examples of "vivit vitam" etc., though, but it reads like an anglicism.)
As always, you should probably get the tattoo in a language you personally appreciate and enjoy, rather than one that you have no relationship with; Latin is not some magic code that turns things one hundred times more awesome. If you really want Latin, hunt around for something originally written in Latin that says something close to what you want to say.
posted by Casuistry at 5:02 PM on September 30, 2009
As always, you should probably get the tattoo in a language you personally appreciate and enjoy, rather than one that you have no relationship with; Latin is not some magic code that turns things one hundred times more awesome. If you really want Latin, hunt around for something originally written in Latin that says something close to what you want to say.
posted by Casuistry at 5:02 PM on September 30, 2009
yoyoceramic, "vivo" is not (classically) a transitive verb, so it shouldn't take an object
"vivere" can take "vitam" as an object as an internal accusative.
If Plautus says it it must be true!
posted by kenko at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2009
"vivere" can take "vitam" as an object as an internal accusative.
If Plautus says it it must be true!
posted by kenko at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2009
In fact, "vitam vivere" is a pretty standard example of an internal accusative—the very first page of the book with the Plautus quotation gives it along with "cursum currere" and "ludum ludere" as examples where the accusative "denotes something inherent in the action of the verb itself".
posted by kenko at 5:48 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by kenko at 5:48 PM on September 30, 2009
Ok, that Plautus link didn't go where I wanted it to. It should go to the eighth page of the book that the link does go to, where Plautus is quoted saying "faciam ut mei memineris dum vitam vivas".
posted by kenko at 5:51 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by kenko at 5:51 PM on September 30, 2009
Best answer: How about living a "noble" or "worthy" life, and a life of "striving" or "effort"? Would those yield more natural Latin translations?
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:15 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:15 PM on September 30, 2009
Best answer: (I guess if we can transfer the sense in English, though, we can do so in Latin as well.)
Yeah, no. That's the kind of thinking that leads to translating "Out of sight, out of mind" as "Blind and therefore insane."
I like this translation by kenko of the second idea:
viva enixa vivenda est
The most literal English version of this is "The strenuous life must be lived"; an Englishing that is more idiomatic is "It is necessary to live a strenuous life," which sounds like the idea you're trying to put across.
I am still at a loss in trying to come up with a reasonably Latinate way of communicating "I want to live a life in which I take pride in my accomplishments," though I'm thinking that the words decus, elatus, or glorior (though that can have a sense of boasting) might be a lot closer to what you're getting at than animus does. (I would almost like spiritus more than animus here, though that may be my bias since I've worked more in Medieval and Renaissance Latin than in Classical Latin.)
And that last parentheses leads me to another question: Do you want this to be in Latin because you want it to be reminiscent of, say, a motto on a medieval European shield? Or do you want this to be in Latin because you want it to be reminiscent of, say, an epigram by Martial?
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:19 PM on September 30, 2009
Yeah, no. That's the kind of thinking that leads to translating "Out of sight, out of mind" as "Blind and therefore insane."
I like this translation by kenko of the second idea:
viva enixa vivenda est
The most literal English version of this is "The strenuous life must be lived"; an Englishing that is more idiomatic is "It is necessary to live a strenuous life," which sounds like the idea you're trying to put across.
I am still at a loss in trying to come up with a reasonably Latinate way of communicating "I want to live a life in which I take pride in my accomplishments," though I'm thinking that the words decus, elatus, or glorior (though that can have a sense of boasting) might be a lot closer to what you're getting at than animus does. (I would almost like spiritus more than animus here, though that may be my bias since I've worked more in Medieval and Renaissance Latin than in Classical Latin.)
And that last parentheses leads me to another question: Do you want this to be in Latin because you want it to be reminiscent of, say, a motto on a medieval European shield? Or do you want this to be in Latin because you want it to be reminiscent of, say, an epigram by Martial?
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:19 PM on September 30, 2009
Yeah, no. That's the kind of thinking that leads to translating [errors]
I meant "transfer the sense" in the sense of transferred epithet, something whose classical pedigree is undisputable: transferring pride from the life to the liver thereof.
posted by kenko at 7:36 PM on September 30, 2009
I meant "transfer the sense" in the sense of transferred epithet, something whose classical pedigree is undisputable: transferring pride from the life to the liver thereof.
posted by kenko at 7:36 PM on September 30, 2009
animosus, not animus!
A vita decoris doesn't seem obviously better at capturing the desired sense than a vita animosa, but hey.
posted by kenko at 7:41 PM on September 30, 2009
A vita decoris doesn't seem obviously better at capturing the desired sense than a vita animosa, but hey.
posted by kenko at 7:41 PM on September 30, 2009
Plautus is not classical, but fair enough; I withdraw my complaint.
posted by Casuistry at 9:29 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by Casuistry at 9:29 PM on September 30, 2009
Response by poster: "The strenuous life must be lived" as Sidhedevil has stated. I apologize for my lack of Latin. i promise to make up for it.
I just want something that I can look at, and make me think about what i am trying to do and who I'm trying to be.
As a friend once told me, :"Be as you wish to seem." (That might be the next one) but I need reinforcement. That is why I am venturing on this.
posted by Botunda at 7:33 AM on October 1, 2009
I just want something that I can look at, and make me think about what i am trying to do and who I'm trying to be.
As a friend once told me, :"Be as you wish to seem." (That might be the next one) but I need reinforcement. That is why I am venturing on this.
posted by Botunda at 7:33 AM on October 1, 2009
Response by poster: And I KNOW that statements plastered on my body will not change my life... bu at least it will give me pause. A little time to reflect.
posted by Botunda at 7:38 AM on October 1, 2009
posted by Botunda at 7:38 AM on October 1, 2009
I just want something that I can look at, and make me think about what i am trying to do and who I'm trying to be.
Then I would suggest something in a language you understand.
posted by dersins at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2009
Then I would suggest something in a language you understand.
posted by dersins at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2009
Response by poster: @dersins - But I don't want everyone who sees it to immediately understand. I then have the choice to explain or just say, "matters to me, move along." It's not that i am trying to be 'cool,' I just like a little obscurity on some things. This is a permanent piece on my body and I get to decide how I reflect its message. Just writing it out would be too easy, for me, and therefore lose part of its meaning. I want to THINK about what it says instead of just reading it.
posted by Botunda at 3:43 AM on October 2, 2009
posted by Botunda at 3:43 AM on October 2, 2009
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- the verbs are infinitive, "to live", rather than "live".
- the word "life" is nominative, not accusative. (As if you had written "he hit I".)
- in the first, the adjective doesn't agree with the noun. The gender of the adjective needs to be the same as that of the noun.
- I don't know where that word "a" came from: Latin does have a preposition a, ab, but you don't want to use it (it means "by", basically). Latin does not have articles.
Also, "altus" doesn't seem to be "proud", precisely. How about "animosus", "undaunted, proud on account of something"? Then you could say "vive animosam vitam". (The only other word I can think of is "superbus", but that means "proud" in a kind of negative sense, I think: haughty, arrogant.)
And for "live a strenuous life", "vive enixam vivam", perhaps.. "ops" is a noun anyway.
"vive" is the imperative: "live!".
posted by kenko at 3:41 PM on September 30, 2009