Help me understand (real) football!
September 29, 2009 6:13 AM Subscribe
I've decided to make football my sport. Not American football, but real football, that is, the sport properly played on a pitch by actual athletes. AKA soccer. Problem is, as an American, I have limited exposure to it. Which web sites do you (real) football fans follow?
I'm looking for online English-language resources via which I can learn more about the game, the various international leagues and competitions, etc.
For example, Major League Baseball has MLB.com as its official site, plus the teams' individual sites, but, in addition, there are all manner of blogs, sites devoted to statistics, etc.
Presumably there is something analogous for football, though I don't know what it is.
Thanks.
I'm looking for online English-language resources via which I can learn more about the game, the various international leagues and competitions, etc.
For example, Major League Baseball has MLB.com as its official site, plus the teams' individual sites, but, in addition, there are all manner of blogs, sites devoted to statistics, etc.
Presumably there is something analogous for football, though I don't know what it is.
Thanks.
ESPN Soccernet is a good resource, as is the BBC.
The cultural superiority stuff might make you feel good, but I'm not sure how you can describe American football players as anything but "actual athletes". One kind isn't any more "real" than the other - they're different sports.
posted by downing street memo at 6:23 AM on September 29, 2009 [11 favorites]
The cultural superiority stuff might make you feel good, but I'm not sure how you can describe American football players as anything but "actual athletes". One kind isn't any more "real" than the other - they're different sports.
posted by downing street memo at 6:23 AM on September 29, 2009 [11 favorites]
As far as following stories, results and keeping track of tables -
BBC News
Sky Sports
and Newsnow which aggregates stories as they happen. Search for the team you follow, for instance, Fulham.
If you want to learn about football, there are less resources but this issue has been brought up at least twice before on AskMe so check the tags.
posted by fire&wings at 6:25 AM on September 29, 2009
BBC News
Sky Sports
and Newsnow which aggregates stories as they happen. Search for the team you follow, for instance, Fulham.
If you want to learn about football, there are less resources but this issue has been brought up at least twice before on AskMe so check the tags.
posted by fire&wings at 6:25 AM on September 29, 2009
FIFA.com would be the analog to mlb.com and I agree with downing street memo, that discussing the "realness" of different athletes is a fool's errand is bound to piss people off and make you look silly. Feel free to discuss the relative endurance, skill, strength, intelligence, etc. needed for each sport over a few pints but to denigrate American football as not real is to denigrate Rugby and have you see some of thus guys? I wouldn't want to make them angry at me.
posted by mmascolino at 6:34 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by mmascolino at 6:34 AM on September 29, 2009
As a Brit, I'll tell you to follow the English league. For that the best sites are the BBC, guardian.co.uk, telegraph.co.uk and thetimes.co.uk
You'll get into it more if you play fantasy football. A little late to start this season, but what the heck, go to fantasy.premierleague.com
Subscribe to the guardian's "fiver" email, which you can do at the guardian site
If you decide to follow a team, you'll find lots of good sites at that team level. Football is more tribal than US sports, so other than the news sites listed above, much of the best content comes at a very partisan level up from fans of individual clubs. Search for "Club + Forum" (e.g. "Man City forum") and you'll find one you can get into.
For watching the games, myp2p.eu and ATDHE.net are valuable resources, although there's a constant battle waged between the league and the streamers, so watching a whole game without the feed being pulled is a little tricky. The glorious days of watching every game on justin.tv are SOOO 2 seasons ago.
posted by momentofmagnus at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2009
You'll get into it more if you play fantasy football. A little late to start this season, but what the heck, go to fantasy.premierleague.com
Subscribe to the guardian's "fiver" email, which you can do at the guardian site
If you decide to follow a team, you'll find lots of good sites at that team level. Football is more tribal than US sports, so other than the news sites listed above, much of the best content comes at a very partisan level up from fans of individual clubs. Search for "Club + Forum" (e.g. "Man City forum") and you'll find one you can get into.
For watching the games, myp2p.eu and ATDHE.net are valuable resources, although there's a constant battle waged between the league and the streamers, so watching a whole game without the feed being pulled is a little tricky. The glorious days of watching every game on justin.tv are SOOO 2 seasons ago.
posted by momentofmagnus at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2009
I'd point you to a couple of places. One is the online site of the (paper) magazine When Saturday Comes, which offers a couple of short posts a day, but has a really wide overview, with pieces on European and world football, and reasonable coverage of the grass-roots of the game in the UK. The other place is the soccer section of The Guardian website. Although they have an inevitably skewed interest in the top tier of English football, they also have a weekly column on each of the Spanish, German, and Italian league, some limited coverage of the lower leagues in England. Generally making them stand out above the football coverage of other UK newspaper website is a high-standard of writing, an irreverence, a hatred of preening pomposity in footballers (and football coverage), and a sense of humour. Both of these sites offer more in the way of comment and reporting, rather than statistics. If it's the numbers your looking for, the BBC site would probably be the best place to go, at least for information on Europe. ESPN Soccernet is better for the MLS.
posted by hydatius at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by hydatius at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for all the links, by the way.
posted by dfriedman at 6:44 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by dfriedman at 6:44 AM on September 29, 2009
The Guardian is a great resource to start with. Two of their products are great - as mentioned, The Fiver is awesome because it doesn't take itself seriously at all, and the Football Weekly podcast is the same way. The people that do Football Weekly have forgotten more about soccer than you'll ever know, but they're also fun to listen to, and as hydatius says they cover the French, German, Spanish, and Italian leagues as well.
And I've mentioned this before, but don't get caught up in the "should I call it football v. soccer" debate. The English invented the game, and they invented both words ("soccer" is a bastardization of "Association" as in "Association Football"), so there's really not a proper way to refer to it, just call it either one and go on with your day.
posted by pdb at 6:58 AM on September 29, 2009
And I've mentioned this before, but don't get caught up in the "should I call it football v. soccer" debate. The English invented the game, and they invented both words ("soccer" is a bastardization of "Association" as in "Association Football"), so there's really not a proper way to refer to it, just call it either one and go on with your day.
posted by pdb at 6:58 AM on September 29, 2009
One addition, assuming you're following the English league and are relatively adept with bittorrent is to download "Match of the Day" and "MOTD2" each Monday - they're the BBC's highlights programmes that are generally a LOT better than Fox Soccer's weekend roundup show.
posted by momentofmagnus at 7:06 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by momentofmagnus at 7:06 AM on September 29, 2009
Get the Fighting Talk podcast from BBC Radio Five Live. It's a funny panel show where the guests get 'points for punditry'. It covers all sports, but mostly focuses on football.
posted by IanMorr at 7:11 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by IanMorr at 7:11 AM on September 29, 2009
Stats really aren't as big a part of the game as they are in the big American sports: the only time non-Stattos outside the US seem to care is for fantasy football leagues.
I'd second the refs to the Guardian podcast and Fiver, though I'd also recommend the sports reporting of the Telegraph, which doesn't have the same self-deprecating spirit of the Guardian, but has top-notch writers. The WSC Friday email newsletter, the Weekly Howl, is also a lot of fun.
You're probably also picking teams to support, and once that's settled, you can find the sites for their fanzines and the message boards associated with them.
One final left-field recommendation: the podcast of Danny Baker's Saturday morning show. Unlike the now-standard 606 combination of whining callers and dull hosts, Baker focuses on the culture of the terraces, the school field and the Sunday morning park match.
posted by holgate at 7:19 AM on September 29, 2009
I'd second the refs to the Guardian podcast and Fiver, though I'd also recommend the sports reporting of the Telegraph, which doesn't have the same self-deprecating spirit of the Guardian, but has top-notch writers. The WSC Friday email newsletter, the Weekly Howl, is also a lot of fun.
You're probably also picking teams to support, and once that's settled, you can find the sites for their fanzines and the message boards associated with them.
One final left-field recommendation: the podcast of Danny Baker's Saturday morning show. Unlike the now-standard 606 combination of whining callers and dull hosts, Baker focuses on the culture of the terraces, the school field and the Sunday morning park match.
posted by holgate at 7:19 AM on September 29, 2009
Mod note: removed american football derail
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:26 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:26 AM on September 29, 2009
Big Soccer has the best forums for MLS (real American football!) and for lots of international leagues.
posted by bink at 7:45 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by bink at 7:45 AM on September 29, 2009
For results and tables I generally use the BBC, but for news, commentary and podcasts it's the Guardian all the way. Subscribe to The Fiver and listen to the Football Weekly Podcast.
Colin Murray was the worst thing to ever happen to Fighting Talk, but luckily he is only one fifth of the show. It's entertaining, so why not have fun while you learn.
Also, if you can splurge, subscribe to the BBC's magazine FourFourTwo. From the occasional issues I have read, it's a very good magazine.
Also, it's not too late to join the fantasy premeir league and Metafilter has a private league. Yeah you'll be lagging behind a bit but so what? It's your first season and you should be coming last anyway. Consider it training for next season proper.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:55 AM on September 29, 2009
Colin Murray was the worst thing to ever happen to Fighting Talk, but luckily he is only one fifth of the show. It's entertaining, so why not have fun while you learn.
Also, if you can splurge, subscribe to the BBC's magazine FourFourTwo. From the occasional issues I have read, it's a very good magazine.
Also, it's not too late to join the fantasy premeir league and Metafilter has a private league. Yeah you'll be lagging behind a bit but so what? It's your first season and you should be coming last anyway. Consider it training for next season proper.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:55 AM on September 29, 2009
oh, and if you are in NYC, as can be seen on your profile. Get tickets and go watch the Red Bulls. They need the support. Seriously.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:01 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Frasermoo at 9:01 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Now that you have a lot of resources for where to start, here's a few other cultural-difference tips that might help:
- As Holgate mentions, stats in soccer are almost non-existent; start talking about them and you'll be met with, at best, blank stares. The only things that matter on the offensive side of the ball in soccer are good passes (the number is not nearly as relevant as the quality) and goals (the number is obviously pretty important here).
- If you end up following a team in England's top division, please do not Americanize the name of the league in which they play when you talk about it. it's not "The EPL", it's the Premier League or the Premiership (Or the First Division, if you're a crusty old man who doesn't accept change, but that's a different story entirely).
- Similarly, the white chalked-off area in front of each goal is called the penalty area, or the area - it should not be referred to as "The 18" or "The 18-Yard-Box" as a lot of American commentators seem to do regularly. And if you ever hear anybody use the term "inswinging corner", kick them in the inswingers.
- Don't pick a team, or even a league, to follow right away. Lurk a while - if your cable system gets Fox Soccer Channel, spend a few Saturdays immersed in it. They show the English and Italian leagues, as well as the occasional Asian and Latin American league; they're all different, they all have things to recommend them, so take some time to check them out before deciding to settle for one of the 'big boys' of Europe.
- When you do pick a team, go deep. Get to know their history a bit, like who their legendary players are and things like that; it makes conversation with random strangers in bars that much more interesting.
posted by pdb at 9:17 AM on September 29, 2009
- As Holgate mentions, stats in soccer are almost non-existent; start talking about them and you'll be met with, at best, blank stares. The only things that matter on the offensive side of the ball in soccer are good passes (the number is not nearly as relevant as the quality) and goals (the number is obviously pretty important here).
- If you end up following a team in England's top division, please do not Americanize the name of the league in which they play when you talk about it. it's not "The EPL", it's the Premier League or the Premiership (Or the First Division, if you're a crusty old man who doesn't accept change, but that's a different story entirely).
- Similarly, the white chalked-off area in front of each goal is called the penalty area, or the area - it should not be referred to as "The 18" or "The 18-Yard-Box" as a lot of American commentators seem to do regularly. And if you ever hear anybody use the term "inswinging corner", kick them in the inswingers.
- Don't pick a team, or even a league, to follow right away. Lurk a while - if your cable system gets Fox Soccer Channel, spend a few Saturdays immersed in it. They show the English and Italian leagues, as well as the occasional Asian and Latin American league; they're all different, they all have things to recommend them, so take some time to check them out before deciding to settle for one of the 'big boys' of Europe.
- When you do pick a team, go deep. Get to know their history a bit, like who their legendary players are and things like that; it makes conversation with random strangers in bars that much more interesting.
posted by pdb at 9:17 AM on September 29, 2009
As someone mentioned you're in NYC: spend a Saturday morning in Nevada Smith's on 3rd Av and 11th Street.
posted by momentofmagnus at 9:30 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by momentofmagnus at 9:30 AM on September 29, 2009
May I also suggest Iona in W'mburg Brooklyn that is a great place to watch games. It has a little less of the "I might get in a fight this morning." vibe that Nevada Smith's can sometimes have.
posted by josher71 at 9:36 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by josher71 at 9:36 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
CNNsi.com's soccer page isn't great, but it generally has 2 or 3 good feature stories a week that are great for a new fan.
Soccer by Ives and Goal.com are the best resources for an American trying to follow the soccer world.
posted by timdicator at 9:41 AM on September 29, 2009
Soccer by Ives and Goal.com are the best resources for an American trying to follow the soccer world.
posted by timdicator at 9:41 AM on September 29, 2009
I picked up on football about a decade ago and never looked back. And yes, the NFL is complete rubbish now.
Another vote for Guardian (for The Premiership) and The Fiver (but The Fiver going to look like Greek until you are up to speed on The Premiership).
Serie A- I read Gazzetta dello Sport, but it's in Italian. There is an English version that's ok, not great. Or try goal.com.
You will need Fox Soccer Channel, GolTV, ESPN2 and Setanta to follow Europe closely. If you can only pick one, go with Fox Soccer Channel because it has the rights to Champions League and as they will later today, they air several matches at the same time on different Fox-owned cable channels. I have a couple of DVR'S rolling but they will repeat matches later in the day.
The Champions League Final final will be on the FX Channel next May. This basically is your "Super Bowl".
posted by Zambrano at 10:15 AM on September 29, 2009
Another vote for Guardian (for The Premiership) and The Fiver (but The Fiver going to look like Greek until you are up to speed on The Premiership).
Serie A- I read Gazzetta dello Sport, but it's in Italian. There is an English version that's ok, not great. Or try goal.com.
You will need Fox Soccer Channel, GolTV, ESPN2 and Setanta to follow Europe closely. If you can only pick one, go with Fox Soccer Channel because it has the rights to Champions League and as they will later today, they air several matches at the same time on different Fox-owned cable channels. I have a couple of DVR'S rolling but they will repeat matches later in the day.
The Champions League Final final will be on the FX Channel next May. This basically is your "Super Bowl".
posted by Zambrano at 10:15 AM on September 29, 2009
I download and watch games from footytorrents.co.uk
posted by zentrification at 11:03 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by zentrification at 11:03 AM on September 29, 2009
Looks like you've got some good help already. I asked this soccer question recently that might help you.
Also, I'd recommend coming to Seattle for a Sounders game. It's amazing! (32,000 people screaming in Qwest field).
posted by Craig at 11:24 AM on September 29, 2009
Also, I'd recommend coming to Seattle for a Sounders game. It's amazing! (32,000 people screaming in Qwest field).
posted by Craig at 11:24 AM on September 29, 2009
I don't think anyone has recommended Football365.com yet. It's funny, irreverent, and slightly incomprehensible until you've been following for a while. I also read the Guardian, and use soccernet.com as an easy way of getting the stats for a huge range of games.
I suspect that torrents will serve you better than American TV. There are some terrible US soccer commentators. Tommy Smyth of ESPN is widely hated the world over. I'm currently watching GolTV for the first time, and 20 minutes into the game I am ready to hunt down and kill both commentators.
Watch the English and/or Spanish national leagues, and the Champions league. Realistically, if you're just starting off I'd suggest following one national league, and following that country's teams in the Champions league. For England, that would be Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. For Spain, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid, and Sevilla. fbtz.com is also good for torrents.
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:32 PM on September 29, 2009
I suspect that torrents will serve you better than American TV. There are some terrible US soccer commentators. Tommy Smyth of ESPN is widely hated the world over. I'm currently watching GolTV for the first time, and 20 minutes into the game I am ready to hunt down and kill both commentators.
Watch the English and/or Spanish national leagues, and the Champions league. Realistically, if you're just starting off I'd suggest following one national league, and following that country's teams in the Champions league. For England, that would be Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. For Spain, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid, and Sevilla. fbtz.com is also good for torrents.
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:32 PM on September 29, 2009
... and remember: no matter what you hear about Torres, Drogba is still better.
posted by Zambrano at 3:56 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by Zambrano at 3:56 PM on September 29, 2009
A quick language thing - the way American sites refer to football teams is just wrong. It's not "Chelsea is winning/sitting at the top of the table", it's "Chelsea are winning/sitting at the top of the table".
Minor thing, but always really irks me. Imagine when talking about the team that you're talking collectively about the players, rather than the "franchise".
posted by djgh at 6:16 PM on September 29, 2009
Minor thing, but always really irks me. Imagine when talking about the team that you're talking collectively about the players, rather than the "franchise".
posted by djgh at 6:16 PM on September 29, 2009
Oh, and never use the word franchise. Always team or club.
posted by djgh at 6:17 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by djgh at 6:17 PM on September 29, 2009
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posted by jamesonandwater at 6:23 AM on September 29, 2009